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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-28-2008, 8:12 AM Reply
09 Caddy Esclade Hybrid. I wonder how diffrent this will be than the regular gas powerd Esclade. Can you tow with it? I would hope so. I'm super happy with my Esclade so a Hybrid version would be even better. They are saying that its gonna get twice the MPG of a standard Esclade. So that would be like 40 MPG freeway?
Old     (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       08-28-2008, 8:16 AM Reply   
You wont get 40 on the hwy. You might get twice the around town milage. Look up info on the hybrid tahoe it is basically the same car and has been around for at least a year.

I am sure you will be able to tow with it.
Old     (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       08-28-2008, 8:18 AM Reply   
The didnt say twice the mpg. They said 50% more only in the city. The web site says 20 in the city and 21 on the hwy.

Wow, at a time when GMs stock is tumbling because of oil prices, they are going to produce an SUV that gets 5 more mpg that will probably cost twice as much as the standard version. Very smart!
Old     (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       08-28-2008, 8:36 AM Reply   
74K(MSRP) for the hybrid and our a typical escalade will get 12 around town...20 is better. The vehicle will work and tow the same as the old vehicle.
Old     (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       08-28-2008, 8:45 AM Reply   
It's so funny how GM feel's like they need to advertise down the side of the vehicle that it's a HYBRID. They do it on all of their hybrids.
Old     (mike3500)      Join Date: Jun 2008       08-28-2008, 8:47 AM Reply   
I think it was the Discovery channel, did a test on the Tahoe Hybrid vs a gas Silverado. The Hybrid destroyed the Silverado in the tow race. They believe it was due to the Silverado had a lot of slip (they performed the race in a recently harvested corn field), and the weight of the battery in the Hybrid helped them win the race. I can't remember if the Silverado was a 4X4.

I believe the rest of the races were fairly tight, but can't remember the outcomes. I would love to turn in our 2007 Tahoe for a Hybrid.
Old     (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       08-28-2008, 10:30 AM Reply   
the tow weight of a hybrid is less than that of the gas version - 5700 lbs(4x4) is pretty light load for a full size tow vehicle.

a diesel version of the tahoe would be great. jeep cherokee has a 6 cylinder mercedes diesel and that gets 22-26 mg (with full time 4wd ) and 275 ft lbs torque and a tow of 7500 lbs.

btw, a tow race in a recently harvested corn field of a suv vs a pickup is comparing apples to oranges.

(Message edited by clubmyke on August 28, 2008)
Old     (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       08-28-2008, 12:38 PM Reply   
74k for the hybrid? What is the standard version price? How long will it take to see the savings of 8mpg?
Old     (mike3500)      Join Date: Jun 2008       08-28-2008, 12:50 PM Reply   
yeah, the corn field thing was strange. they were towing an 8,000lb tractor. it still sold me on the towing capability of the hybrid that's for sure.

anyone know how much the tahoe hybrids are running for?
Old     (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       08-28-2008, 12:54 PM Reply   
$74 k !!!!! omg what a friggin rip off... for that much you can get the mercedes diesel van\suv and better tow capacity
Old     (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       08-28-2008, 1:07 PM Reply   
Regular price for a loaded escalade is 68ish(MSRP)

Diesel...I havn't heard of people getting much better than high teens in pickups.
Old     (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       08-28-2008, 1:11 PM Reply   
The thing is with the difference in price. You could buy a reg escalade and a little car to cruise around town in and be better.
Old    pdxWAKE            08-28-2008, 1:38 PM Reply   
Interesting that you bring this up.... 20/20 or 60 mins did a deal a few months back and tested all these hybrids vs. the non hybrids. They balanced out a typical car of
12-15k miles per year
Tax rebate
extra cost of a hybrid
60 month financing (or something like that)

And then determined how long it would take for the extra cost of a hybrid to pay back. The conclusion was only two hybrid version cars actually paid for themselves in the period of time finaced. The Prius and the Civic. The Tahoe version was not the worst, but it was over 50 years to start seeing the savings. The worst was a lexus at 109 years..... They tested all of them and the results were astonishing and actually made sense. I am sure it is available online.... Moral of the story is if you feel better cause you are buying a hybrid, then do it, but if you think you are helping yourself out, you are wrong.....
That is the reason they plaster HYBRID all over the side of that tahoe..... just to make you feel better each time you look out the window and wonder if you made the right decision....
Old     (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       08-28-2008, 1:53 PM Reply   
Ewing, im sure the 74k figure for the hybrid is the base model. I did a search the the base model escalade msrp was 62k.
Old     (srh00z)      Join Date: Jun 2003       08-28-2008, 2:00 PM Reply   
I rented a Hybrid Escape the last time I traveled. I did so partly because I was curious and partly because it suited my needs and they were running a special on them. There were plenty of things I didn't like about it. The AC compressor doesn't work when the vehicle is in electric mode. That didn't work well in Ft. Lauderdale in July. Also, you had to be very judicious in your accelerator application to keep the car in electric mode. Once you got over 2K RPM it switched to gas, or if you accelerated too quickly it switched to gas. We wound up leaving it in regular mode most of the time due to the need for Air Conditioning. I haven't had any experience with any of the other Hybrids.
Old     (jperkinsttu)      Join Date: Mar 2008       08-28-2008, 2:48 PM Reply   
Pre-2007 diesel's get really good mileage for the size of the vehicle plus you can add a bunch of suspension and engine mods that won't make the mileage suffer, but they have now added a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) on all the new trucks that is a new EPA regulation. Basically it doens't allow us to throw out that beautiful black smoke on all the pretty new hybrids. It cuts down on mileage which increases fuel consumption all to restrict the amount of emissions coming out of the exhaust. I have had quite a few problems with mine, it burned up a turbo with less that 6k miles on it and I've had it in the shop for warranty work at least 6 times. I would take the filter off but don't feel like going to prison for it.

Old diesel engines were the way to go but until they figure out how to get the same mileage out of the new one's I wouldn't push for it. (They still have the same amount of torque and HP, but you lose at least 5 mpg in the city due to the DPF.)
Old     (billthom)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-28-2008, 3:46 PM Reply   
To go along with Diggs post about the amount of time it takes to pay off a hybrid, although controversial it's been said that from the factory an H1 has a smaller carbon footprint than a Prius. And it takes may years before it goes in the Prius’ favor. Check out Wired :

“As Matt Power notes in this month's issue of Wired, hybrids get great gas mileage but it takes 113 million BTUs of energy to make a Toyota Prius. Because there are about 113,000 BTUs of energy in a gallon of gasoline, the Prius has consumed the equivalent of 1,000 gallons of gasoline before it reaches the showroom. Think of it as a carbon debt -- one you won't pay off until the Prius has turned over 46,000 miles or so.” And then there is the question of battery disposal…

That’s why GM prints “Hybrid” all over its new SUVs. There is not an angle you can look at the SUV and not see “hybrid” stamped somewhere. It’s not entirely about saving the planet, it’s about letting everyone know you are. There was a study done to help explain why the Prius sells so much better than other hybrids (civic, accord, Malibu.) It was because people instantly recognize the Prius as a hybrid and drivers really love that.
Old     (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       08-28-2008, 4:17 PM Reply   
You guys do realize many people who buy a hybrid Tahoe/Escalade are doing so as an eco friendly statement more so than the fuel savings.

Do you really think a person spending 50-70K on an SUV really cares if gas is 4 or 5 dollars a gallon.
Old    wiz            08-28-2008, 7:15 PM Reply   
ewing---- BINGO!!!
Old     (02wakesettervlx)      Join Date: Jun 2001       08-28-2008, 11:02 PM Reply   
I just drove my ESV 820 miles round trip, on 47 gallons of gas. Which means I averaged about 17-18 mpg in mixed driving, and 80 ish on the higway. Who cares about a couple of extra miles per gallon. This is a 400 hp truck that is full time awd, and weighs a good bit. My 06 F-250 PSD never returned those kind of numbers. I couldn't be happier with my truck
Old     (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       08-29-2008, 10:45 AM Reply   
Leo only option on a hybrid is DVD player or not...the only other option is color.
Old    lakeside5_10            08-29-2008, 10:47 AM Reply   
1 of my GM teachers at the gm training center has gotten 26mpg from this 2mode hybrid
Old     (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       08-29-2008, 11:10 AM Reply   
thats not a hybrid

35-45 now thats hybrid mpg
Old     (tommyg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-29-2008, 11:19 AM Reply   
If the Escalade is at all like the Chevy/GM version, the tow rating is actually pretty weak. My understanding is that it's due to the fact that there was only so much room under the hood when they added the electric they had to make the radiator smaller. Too bad, b/c that 6.0 is solid for pulling.
Old     (tommyg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-29-2008, 11:21 AM Reply   
...oh, and I agree about the Hybrid written along the bottom. Tacky. Hopefully it's a sticker that can be taken off.

We LOVE our '07 Denali XL, I dig the extra space in the back from the extended version. They won't be making a Hybrid version of the XL from what I hear unfortunately...
Old     (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       08-29-2008, 11:52 AM Reply   
I love people thinking they're being ECO by driving a hybrid. Do you think they ever wonder where the batteries go when they need to be replaced. Hybrids are lame. Electric cars (solar charged preferably), hydrogen or other alternative fuel vehicles are ECO.

A diesel Jetta will pretty much average out to the same mileage as a Prius and do it in much better style.

As for a Diesel version of the Escalade. I bet if you put a smaller 6 cylinder diesel in a 1/2 P/U you could get mileage in the mid-20's. That'd be very respectable for a full size P/U. The reason the diesels that are around right now don't get better mileage is because they are all V8 monster 7,500lb jobbies. I get 18 MPG average (highway and city) in my diesel. That's far better than my Tahoe did and it was much smaller.

Hybrids.....ha..... I'll leave all that complication out of my trucks. I'd take a standard Excalade over the hybrid any day. If you want good gas mileage drive a car. Most people that have trucks rarely use them anyway.
Old     (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       08-29-2008, 1:40 PM Reply   
Tommy reason for the Hybrid sticker on the bottom is to let rescue workers know it is a hybrid. A Tahoe/Escalade has 300 volts going to the electric motors...
Old     (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-29-2008, 1:54 PM Reply   
Yea right. Thats why they print "4x4", "Malibu", "Ford", "Mastercraft", "Electronic Fuel Injection" or whatever else on the side of whatever rig. It's a marketing ploy. And people leave it on there either because they don't give a damn or some sense of pride of ownership.

Granted, rescue workers need to know it's a hybrid. But I imagine they have other ways of doing that besides printing a banner up the side fo the rig.
Old     (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       08-29-2008, 2:47 PM Reply   
Hey, that is a serious concern though... I've seen the guys in the shop next door to me working on Prius. I was asking what the hell they were doing wearing Kevlar gloves. They then told me about the risk of death from a 300VDC shock. Nasty.

Yet another reason I wouldn't own a hybrid.
Old     (snowfire)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-29-2008, 3:07 PM Reply   
The hybrid Tahoe is 2wd, not sure on the Escalade, also, looked at a hybrid Lexus GS hybrid vs. gas GS. The salesman stated they are equally fast off the line due to the electric motor not having a power band like the gas motor, so the thing launches off the line. That might be the case with the tow comparison. To address the "Eco-friendly" batteries, research the plant where the batteries are made in Canada, the landscape around the facility is barren due to the byproducts on manufacture killing all the plant life. Not so Eco-friendly IMO.
Old    mendo247            08-29-2008, 3:23 PM Reply   
Ive taken quite a few classes on Hybrids now and I cringe everytime on comes in the shop. I was watching the show based at West Coast Customs Shop Last night and they picked up a brand new Prius. The first thing they did was disassemble the whole car, by the looks of things I really dont think they had any idea of what they were dealing with. One wrong move and they will end your life.
Old     (tommyg)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-30-2008, 6:23 AM Reply   
I do agree about the benefits of diesel vs. hybrid. My wife's aunt writes for Autoweek and is always making the case for more folks to buy and drive diesels. Not as trendy, but certainly a good way to go.
Old     (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       08-30-2008, 8:05 AM Reply   
tommy i agree - diesel seems to be the way to go. no trade offs in performance and much better for towing (isnt most of europe diesel ?)

i remember reading about a older diesel range rover - the editor of the article got 42 mpg !!!!!!
Old    mendo247            08-30-2008, 9:07 AM Reply   
I have a friend in the fuel business, and hes been swearing for years that if we can get rid of the negative thoughts of diesels some people have planted in their heads the whole country will be using it and will be much better off.
Old     (johnsvt)      Join Date: Dec 2006       08-30-2008, 9:42 AM Reply   
Bill there is a certain amount of marketing behind the Hybrid, but rescue workers are known to cut apart cars to get people out. Unfortunately, with a GM Hybrid if a rescue worker just starts cutting he/she could die.

I have yet to see a Hybrid with the stickers on though.
Old     (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       08-30-2008, 10:35 AM Reply   
Evan, there are so many people that think the batteries are bad, but really once the metal is mined it is recycled over and over. Yes the mining tears the crap out of the land, but what does an oil spill do? Or how about mining for coal? Ever see a crater larger than a city in the ground? Therefore the batteries are a non issue. Toyota PAYS to buy the batteries back. You work in the auto business and know that a regular lead acid battery is worth money even when dead. Recycling is where the WHOLE vehicle needs to go and they are not there yet. Too much plastic in them that is non reusable.

Coop, I too have a taken Toyota's classes and worked with the instructors for the classes regarding the Hybrids. When you look at the system there is nothing scary about it. We all have 220 volts in our house. Three phase will knock you over too. The wires are all colored, and by now anyone with experience knows what to do, or at least to stay away. The fire departments have all been trained. Renee from Santa Rosa Toyota took care of that for our local area.

As too diesel it does store much more energy, but the downfall is it does not run as clean. Hence why the VW diesels cars are banned in the US for now. The EPA well CARB mandated a 70% reduction in emissions from model year 2000 to model year 2008. Now think about how clean a 2000 year car runs. They accomplished it by going after diesels, mostly over the road transport aka semi's. Remember it made Ford's look cool by shooting flames.

Here is where the technology is going! Or at least I hope so.

"This would seem to make the hydrogen powered car a practical and cost effective option within a short time, and makes Al Gore’s Alliance for Climate Protection and Obama’s energy plan to end U S reliance on imported oil within 10 years very doable. I assume both Gore and Obama knew about this development before they laid their programs out.

On down the listing of MIT News events are articles featuring the so-called “soft-Solar” material developments, and the discussion of active solar building materials being developed. Combine these type of collection tools with the hydrogen fuel cell storage system, and solutions to our energy problems suddenly look much more manageable. I would guess there will be two or more plug-in electric cars sold for every fuel cell car. And the plug-in car, fueled with solar power that was collected during the day and then passed to the plug-in car overnight will be far cheaper to own and operate than our present vehicles. Though the house that collects all of that solar energy may be much more costly."

Edit: FWIW other than a small hybrid car, I would never buy a hybrid truck. It is not cost effective.

(Message edited by Peter_C on August 30, 2008)
Old     (04outback)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-01-2008, 7:02 AM Reply   
current issue of TraileR Boats magazine has test on Hybrid tahoe for towing..
Old     (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       09-01-2008, 7:33 AM Reply   
Everyone knows that the EROEI of hydrogen is zero, therefore it is an energy sink?
Old     (nautiquesonly)      Join Date: Sep 2007       09-03-2008, 10:35 AM Reply   
Guys I have a diesel f 250 96 model 2 wd and when empty I get 21mpg it is an extended cab long bed. when i pull the 236 i get around 14-15 mpg's at 70mph. good enough for me. if you go diesel you won't go back. nothing will pill with the strength and ease of a full size diesel. If you guys want great mileage get a car. I have a diesel jetta 5 speed that i consistently get 47+mpg with city highway driving. I also agree with evan on the topic of what the hell are we gonna do with all these batteries when they go out?
Old     (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       09-03-2008, 10:42 AM Reply   
"I also agree with evan on the topic of what the hell are we gonna do with all these batteries when they go out?"

The same thing you are going to do with the two hazardous waste batteries in your diesel...RECYCLE THEM! Except Hybrid batteries are worth $250.00. The batteries are also lasting well over 150K miles which is the average life expectancy of a vehicle.
Old     (committed)      Join Date: Jul 2005       09-03-2008, 1:44 PM Reply   
"The batteries are also lasting well over 150K miles which is the average life expectancy of a vehicle."

Not with a diesel. 350K is first schedule rebuild. You can also add Sulfer mix to your oil burner and pull another 3 to 4 mpg.
Old     (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       09-03-2008, 5:17 PM Reply   
Chris, sorry for not being more clear I was referring to hybrid batteries and cars.

The engine of a diesel may last 350K, but the rest of the junk attached to it will be worn out two times over. I know I will never take a vehicle past 150K again. There isn't much I can not fix on a vehicle, but too much work is required to keep them in top notch shape. Oil leaks being the most serious since we are kinda having a discussion on the environment. (More oil is spilled by individuals than by major oil spills around the world).
Old     (iridelow1998)      Join Date: Jun 2006       09-03-2008, 9:36 PM Reply   
I was told that in California the hybrids are allowed to drive in the carpool lane regardless of the number of people in the vehicle. Thus, the word "hybrid" is plastered all over the car to let law enforcement know that status of the car before you get pulled over a zillion times.

I was looking at the hybrid tahoe and other vehicles earlier this year and I asked the salesman about what seemed to be nothing on the gas savings and his response was this: The hybrid is more for people who are concerned about the planet and want to go green and not so much for gas savings. He said that an average hybrid will run between 5k-10k more than the gas version of the vehicle and that because of the minimal gas savings it will be between 8-10 years before you will break even.
Old     (power_rider)      Join Date: Feb 2007       09-04-2008, 4:03 AM Reply   
I read consumer reports today and they said that if you buy a hybrid tahoe vs. a regular one you will save a total of 1500 bucks not to mention the gov. insentives. But it would be cheaper to buy like a 3 year old tahoe though. If you did that you would save about 25k. Now i realize i said tahoe but it is the same as an Esclade.


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