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Old     (monkey_butt)      Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Twin Cities       10-26-2016, 9:36 AM Reply   
need some (or maybe a lot) of input for a new boat purchase ... looking primarily at a MB B52 23.

One main question to this one first: Is the 400hp engine enough when loaded with the additional 2200lbs plug and play (boat will be used in MN - so no high altitude issue) or is the upgrade to the 440hp warranted (7K option)?

Now for anyone who had the chance to compare - I may get a pretty sweet deal on a Malibu VLX - so looking at this boat too - it's fully loaded. However some disadvantages - I don't like pumps ...

I have some limitations (beyond just price) as for example my boat lift is rated at 5000 lbs. so quite a few boats have fallen off the radar due to that limitation as I don't want to buy a new lift, new tow vehicle etc. and both of the above boats are within that limit.

Now as this might be the last boat I'm going to buy - resale is not my first consideration. I also don't care about dealer proximity as MB Sports has no dealer in MN - the closest one would be in Michigan. Not sure if this is enough info to start but would appreciate if the MB owners could chime in (yes I know there's another forum for them out there ...)
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       10-26-2016, 9:44 AM Reply   
What's your budget? Both are nice.
Old     (monkey_butt)      Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Twin Cities       10-26-2016, 11:49 AM Reply   
enough to buy one of them

preferably staying around 80K before taxes but 100K after taxes is the limit.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       10-26-2016, 11:55 AM Reply   
I'd never pay the premium for new and not have a local dealer to do warranty service. You'd be much better off buying something a year or so old and getting the benefit of someone else eating the depreciation. Though really you'd want to look for something from January of 16 or so or newer in MB so you can get the step down (1.72?) tranny.
Old     (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       10-26-2016, 12:03 PM Reply   
The main boat I ride behind is an MB Tomcat and I got to ride in a few of the 2016s this summer. With that said, I still prefer Malibus.
One big difference is the surf wake for me. The new MB surf system does not make as good of a wave as the new VLX and LSV. I am pretty picky about waves because I try to spend most of my time in the air and doing advanced maneuvers like 360 shuvits. I dislike the MB surf wake so much that I rarely surf behind my own boat. It throws up a ton of spray and is just a weird shape.
BUT, when it comes to 20+mph, I prefer the MB wake by a hair. My main sport is wakeskating, and I absolutely love the wake behind the MB. It is super poppy, solid, and has a fun shape. But I'm also just used to it.
Old     (monkey_butt)      Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Twin Cities       10-26-2016, 1:15 PM Reply   
to clarify one thing: I can buy a 2016 MB leftover for 80k with the 440hp (listed on onlyinboards - it has been broken in according to the sales guy I talked to) or the 2017 Malibu for about 5K more (with pretty much all the options possible. Both will be discounted enough to buy them new (and it is really one of the few times that I'm buying something new - I usually let someone else take the hit).

@Mitch - difference tomcat vs. B52? Do you know?
Old     (padgett)      Join Date: Sep 2013       10-26-2016, 2:08 PM Reply   
Mb makes a nice boat, but it doesn't compare to a Malibu in quality in my opinion. Especially not for the same price
Old     (tarek)      Join Date: Jun 2011       10-26-2016, 2:50 PM Reply   
The MB's in our area aren't depreciating a ton the second you drive them off the lot. I have multiple guys buying brand new boats every year and losing 3-5k. Im not sure about the other brands bc MB is all we sell. Heres a listing for example of one particular customer who is selling his 16 and ordering a 17. We sold it new for to him for $79k and his new one will be around $82k.

http://boise.craigslist.org/bod/5784820541.html

I will agree that the surfgate waves with the wedge have that sharp clean look which is what many people like, as far as the visual aspect goes. MB unfortunately had a run of a few different surf systems and then landed with the guy who was making GSA. for 2017 the plates have less adjustability except in the B52 23. That boats wave takes a little more time to figure out how to get the wave clean without a secondary lip/line which is created from a mix of things... its the hard edge on the transom where the water releases mixed with the platform dragging. this is what creates the line in the wave. for 2017 the platform is tapered and the corners aren't as square. if you buy the MB your looking at see about getting the updated platform. it should help.

as for setup on each specific boat everyone has their own opinions. the surfgate boats i ride on often are T22, A22, and T23. Typically we ride a little faster ranging from 11-12.5 depending on the boat and weight. the T23 has over 5k in ballast and we haul ass surfing.

With the MB B52 23, be sure to have the plug and play and put the 1100's in each corner. it needs it. Also, i think we run slower speeds with surf systems that go downward vs out like surfgate. I ride around 10.8 on most MB's with no center trim because i like a real vertical lip.

I hope this help out
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       10-26-2016, 5:53 PM Reply   
Correct me if im wrong, but the Raptor Indmar engine nomenclature is not HP but rather torque?

Either way, you might need to re-prop anyway, depending on the stock prop the boat was shipped with.

Also, anytime you see a dealer boat with hours advertised as new, Id want that in writing from the manufacturer. Although it may have never been titled, some manufactures only allow a certain number of dealer demo hours before they classify the boat as used.
Old     (monkey_butt)      Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Twin Cities       10-26-2016, 8:39 PM Reply   
I honestly don't know but having another prop is pretty much a given to make sure I'm not out of commission in the middle of our summer in MN ... now learned a few things about the MB - @Tarek thanks for explaining details I wouldn't learn until way later in the game.

Now to the torque/hp question - do you need the upgraded engine?
Old     (Connolly_Crew)      Join Date: Mar 2016       10-27-2016, 5:41 AM Reply   
Malibu all the way
Better wake AND investment...
Old     (padgett)      Join Date: Sep 2013       10-27-2016, 6:08 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Connolly_Crew View Post
Malibu all the way
Better wake AND investment...


I agree!!
Old     (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       10-27-2016, 7:22 AM Reply   
I would say no you do not need the upgraded engine with the 1:72 drive ratio. We have a Supreme 238 with the 1:72 drive ratio and the stock engine is more than enough with full ballast and people. I do have the high altitude prop through. If you are at elevation the upgrade might not be a bad idea though.
Old     (Throwaway1)      Join Date: Nov 2013       10-27-2016, 7:29 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by padgett View Post
Mb makes a nice boat, but it doesn't compare to a Malibu in quality in my opinion. Especially not for the same price
I'd like your thoughts on this. From your perspective, what makes the Malibu a better Quality boat?

Not bashing, just curious
Old     (padgett)      Join Date: Sep 2013       10-27-2016, 8:13 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Throwaway1 View Post
I'd like your thoughts on this. From your perspective, what makes the Malibu a better Quality boat?



Not bashing, just curious


Mb was supposed to be a boat that compared to say a moomba or an axis. And does so very well, but just sit in a Malibu and you won't even need anyone's opinion. I haven't owned an mb but have seen a couple in person. They do make a sharp boat. It seems as if Malibu takes the interior of a boat a step ahead. As it should being a more expensive boat. Simple things like grab handles, quality of pop up cleats, quality of vinyl, and plushness. Look at the dash in the two. Even the tower. The quality of gel coat is great in a Malibu. I've found zero imperfections on mine. I could've bought a new mb, but I chose to buy a used malibu for the same price. This is my opinion, some may think differently. But to me the Malibu just feels like a better built more luxurious boat. And not to mention the wake/wave they produce is pro level.
Old     (padgett)      Join Date: Sep 2013       10-27-2016, 8:20 AM Reply   
For example, here are pics of the dash on a 2012 lsv 23 and a 2012 mb 52. First is the Malibu

Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       10-27-2016, 8:59 AM Reply   
Can we at least get a couple of pics that are of current models? That MB is at least 3 models ago i believe and I know that Bu is maybe a 2013 or older? Sorry, but hard to make your argument with pics of past models, when the OP is looking at a 16 and 17 models.
Old     (cowwboy)      Join Date: Jul 2008       10-27-2016, 9:12 AM Reply   
My buddy has a newer MB and it's quite a bit nicer then the boats in it's msrp range. But not quite the same options as a Malibu. Since someone asked here are the dashes of a new mb and bu.
Attached Images
  
Old     (Throwaway1)      Join Date: Nov 2013       10-27-2016, 9:26 AM Reply   
no doubt the dash is upholstered in the malibu, and there are the electronics and it feels like a better layout. That is going into features.
But I question the "build quality" aspect
Again, not looking into starting a pissing match. But I'll throw in a few cents.

MB, everything from the hinges to the gas shocks is Stainless Steel, thru bolted.
Malibu is mostly screwed together

Not a single Sticker on the MB- all anodized emblems thru bolted

All of MB's boats are liner built boats- two pieces of fiberglass fiberglassed together behind rubrail, and at floor connection with the stringers
Some Malibu's are Liner Built, Some are not (modular pieces screwed together), joined together with shoebox connection using epoxy glues

MB's Gelcoat sprayed at night, in a better climate for it (less humidity) and left in the mold for 72 hours.
Definitely cannot say the same for Malibu

MB is 100% hand laid fiberglass in biaxial, triaxial, and quadraxial weave, no chopper guns, and no gluing pieces together

MB's and Malibu's Vinyl is a near wash, However MB uses Goretex thread- more impervious to sun and chemicals

Malibu does a better job of testing prior to launch, they have more manpower to do that, absolutely something to say about that.
MB doesn't have near the R&D manpower to take the strides that Malibu does.

I like that MB's dash isn't proprietary- it's an off the shelf Murphy unit that any dealer besides Malibu can plug into, Malibu uses Medallion.
Using both companies electronics (albeit, not in an MB) Murphy stuff seems to be way less buggy
Old     (Mxguy741)      Join Date: Nov 2013       10-27-2016, 10:03 AM Reply   
You are really not compparing apples to apples and what is important to you.

I bought a brand new malibu vlx in 2014 and had it for a few years. this year i got a new 2016 mb b52 23ft.

Which one is better? depends on what is important to you. if you are set on touch screens in the boat than malibu is definitely the way to go!

I personaly like the mb because the touch screens are not important to me and have actually ruined a few of my week long outings in my old boat.

The malibu will have a better turn key surf system, you will have to work a little harder with he mb to get where you want to be, but once you are there you will be happy.

what malibu are you looking at? 22vlx or 21 vlx and what year
Old     (monkey_butt)      Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Twin Cities       10-27-2016, 10:36 AM Reply   
that's a possibility that I'm not comparing apples with apples ;-)

Nope the touch screen is not what makes me tick ... what makes me tick is what's behind the boat. So by having that said (and you obviously can compare) - I'm also looking at the MB forum of what they're doing etc. As you may have noticed I come from an Epic (put gate on - extensively described on this forum) and getting something new. What I have been offered is a 22 VLX loaded (2017) for a net price comparable to the MB (2016) with the 440 engine.

Now because I had to mod around on my previous boat to get it where it could get - I'm not going to buy a boat where I have to play with. That doesn't mean that I need to learn how to dial boat in and you somewhat answered that question about the Malibu vs. the MB. Now having that said - the Malibu has about the same net weight - less ballast but does it push out a comparable wake as the MB or is the MB superior (due to more ballast etc.).

I may have not said earlier - surfing is NOT the main goal - wakeboarding is for now (hopefully a few more years who knows) but it will change and that's why I'm also saying that this may be the last boat I'm going to buy (so depreciation/resale is low on the priority list).
Old     (allzway)      Join Date: Feb 2014       10-27-2016, 10:43 AM Reply   
The MB is a super nice boat for the money.

The Malibu is a super nice boat that is over priced, but you do get something for that over price like the cool electronics and probably a slightly better resale in the future.

I am surprised you are comparing these two since the prices are so different.
Old     (Throwaway1)      Join Date: Nov 2013       10-27-2016, 10:56 AM Reply   
MB's B52 23 is a bit temperamental to get right, however, after you get it, you're set. Tons of push, and far back. Doesn't -Look- beautiful due to the scarring from the '16 platform
The Malibu, hit a switch and forget it.

so both boats will surf.

The Malibu will have a better lower speed wakeboarding wake that is more consistent left to right
The MB will have a much larger wake, with loads more pop- less consistent side to side, but something VERY easily worked out with dropping a bit of one side ballast.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       10-27-2016, 11:12 AM Reply   
Given what I've seen of the Epic wakeboard wake (very big, super vert), the MB wake is going to be more familiar than the Malibu. The malibu wake can get steep with the wedge, but "naturally' (for instance with the boat empty of ballast) the malibu wake is going to be smaller, more mellow, and clean up at a much lower speed (probably around 17, vs 20+ for the MB). Even empty the MB wake will be steeper and poppier. The Malibu wake definitely has more transition. The MB wake is steeper and more abrupt, and gets really steep and pretty big with just factory ballast.

The MB wake will also roll over on the landing side pretty easy with a hard cut. Not a big deal IMHO, but you will see it in pics (landing looks crumbly). Sorta like the criticism of the new x-star when it was being compared to the G.

(disclaimer -- I'm not that good, but have many hours behind malibus and a had a 2011 MB 23 for 300 hours).
Old     (Mxguy741)      Join Date: Nov 2013       10-27-2016, 12:30 PM Reply   
The wakeboard wake on my 2016 b52 23 is money. I see a lot of people commenting on the side to side sensitivity but I just don't have a ton of issues with that. Once your set your good to go. I get the rider up. He hangs directly behind boat while I drain some water for maybe 5-10 seconds from the clean side of the wake and then we are set. I had to do the same with my vlx but it just took longer because they were pumps instead of gates.

Here is a pic of full ballast, no plug and play rider is 5'10"



I do believe that your price between those two boats should be around 10k-15k apart. And if they are not you are either getting a smoke deal on the Malibu or the mb dealer is trying to get top dollar. That price gap should be Be even larger between a 16 and 17. I get that there is a motor upgrade on the mb but the "loaded" Malibu should make up that difference pretty quick.

As much as I love my mb, if the difference was less than 5k I would probably go with the Malibu strictly for resale. However that is not a issue for you.....

Hmmmm decisions

Both are great boats, you can't go wrong.
Old     (monkey_butt)      Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Twin Cities       10-27-2016, 1:13 PM Reply   
Well I guess that does actually answer quite a few things ... sounds similar to what the epic was - no clean wake below 20 ... just wasn't happening. 2nd issue I have dogs and they tend to not always stay in the same spot ... so if the wake gets messed up because of that ... then I wouldn't be happy.
Old     (monkey_butt)      Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Twin Cities       10-27-2016, 2:51 PM Reply   
and for those interested ... the MB would be 80K - the Malibu would be around 85K - both before taxes
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       10-27-2016, 3:10 PM Reply   
The MB will be WAY bigger in the cabin.
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       10-27-2016, 4:05 PM Reply   
I would say you need to work on the pricing of the MB. It should be less than that.
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       10-27-2016, 4:51 PM Reply   
Man.. with your budget why you are not considering Tige !??
I've bought mine, 2016 off season price. I spent the entire summer searching, trying and analyse all brand and model and finally made my choice few weeks ago. I can give you my personal opinion!

First thing. Book a Demo for all boats you're interested. The most important thing is your feeling on the water
Second thing. The other most important thing is the dealership. Its important to have a good experience with them because you will return there! Maybe for pieces, winterise, simple oil change, tuning or some issues under warranty. Its always good to have a dealer near and not 12hours away if anything go wrong you dont have to take a week off just for traveling haha (joke).

I've tried LOTS this summer : MB sport, Axis, Moomba, Supra, Malibu, SuperAir Nautique, Tige.
I have no centurion, Supreme dealers in my state so i forget them right away.
MB are good product and compete with axis and moomba. for my opinion B52 is the best between moomba and axis based on quality and the wave.
But With your budget i'll forget these 3 right away haha.. they are "price friendly" brand boat.. and your budget is not!

MB is nothing compare to malibu, super air nautique, supra and Tige.
It depend on what you want to di with your boat. Each boat have their forces and weakness.

Malibu are very great boat, they are wakeboard beast, surfgate works great if you frequently have both sides poeple on your boat.
Interior is good too. Lots of great feature like plug n play and many other things.. they are big crews boat, really spacious.

Supra is the top line of moomba. A little bit cheaper but personaly i love them. Love their style and its a better "bang for the buck" They are perfect family boats, both surf and wakeboard is good. They Compete very well with tige and malibus. Big negative is they drink gas a little more.. because of the boat shape.

Super Air Nautique is my top of the line. If i can afford one sure it will be a Nautique. Wakeboard and surf are perfect. The technology is there. Style is awesome. But you pay the price lol.. Nautique are really luxurious maube the most they are maid to flash.

Finally tige. There is the surf beast. Any boat can compete with the surf waves of tige.. YES many boat can have kind of the same surf wave but never had that push and transition. A supra boat have to weight like 3 600lbs of ballast to have a wave that can compare to a tige with the half ballast weight. Imagine the fuel save!
Wakeboard is not tige force. Tige are a little bit more complicated then pther brand. Lot of electronic and setting. Its really great when you want to spent time on your wave to be perfect but for familys who just to have fun maybe not the best match haha. Because of the hull the are little bit more sensitive to big crews but tige wins year after year the best looking and quality imterior.

So! In the end haha.
If i were you with your budget:
Malibu if you wakeboard more
Tige if you surf more
Supra if you do 50-50 and you dont want to pay for additional features
Super Air Nautique if you like to flash and throw your money in a head turning boat.

Hope thats help!

Last edited by Mike88; 10-27-2016 at 4:53 PM. Reason: Tapping
Old     (monkey_butt)      Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Twin Cities       10-27-2016, 6:43 PM Reply   
thanks everyone for the input ... and to cut it down. Tige would be out - I wakeboard (and my crew does) so it has to be simple. Surfing is playing around - there are so many variables one you just plow thru the water (person in the back vs. front etc.) all that matters so much at that speed except you have a 20ton cabin cruiser ... which we all know that this will be the dream (except the fuel cost).

So having that said - Supra/Nautique are too expensive (and so is MC so that's why it's never mentioned), Axis doesn't cut it, Centurion is too heavy (and so is the Supreme 238S). I have to look at Tige from a weight perspective - anything above 4500 lbs net is out - would need new boat lift and maybe even new tow vehicle ... and I don't want to spend money on lift and car.

And yes I will work on pricing on the MB too because I do feel that I can get it below of the 80K - no question.
Old     (Bakes)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-27-2016, 8:00 PM Reply   
5000 pound limit?

Hate to say it but good luck with a full beam 23' boat.

You need to look in the 20 foot range with a 94" beam. I can tell you that my z3 is close to 6000 with tower, speakers, fuel, toys etc.
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       10-27-2016, 9:28 PM Reply   
under 4500 pounds you dont have much 23 footer! Moomba mondo i think and axis t23. Forget about malibu they are too heavy instead you decide to go 22 tige same thing.. 23 footer are really expensive! If you like the MB go for it. Its your boat ! And its a really great boat too. Never heard bad things about them more than the others. Check the warranty most brand give full 5years its a huge positive and look for leftovers 2016 they give really good prices. I dont know where your MB dealer is but you're willing to make 100miles once a year for checkups you already made your choice!
Old     (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       10-27-2016, 11:51 PM Reply   
I hate a finiky or sensitive wake. Had that on my old Moomba XLV. Now I have a 2013 MC X-30 and I love the wakeboard wake, its very consistent. Coming from an Epic you will LOVE the ease of setting up the wakes on the Malibu. Both are good, but I prefer the Bu style wake.
Old     (tweeder)      Join Date: Aug 2015       10-28-2016, 7:18 AM Reply   
What kind of tow vehicle do you have? I really liked the wake behind the 22 VLX. The one thing the malibu has that someone else mentioned was the power wedge. You can play with the settings and really get the wake how you like it. Curious, if you guys primarily wakeboard why doesn't the axis cut it?
Old     (tarek)      Join Date: Jun 2011       10-28-2016, 10:13 AM Reply   
If i were to rank boats by my overall opinion of (performance) on what i personally have been on heres where I'm at and why. Luckily a lot of the other guys like me at the other local hops around town are all buddies so we jump on each others brand boats pretty often.

MB- If actual dollar amount and budget are a concern this is a very solid option. MB builds a boat thats every bit as good as anyone. Go to the factory and see these dudes work in person. Like someone else said, they lay glass down and do not run their fiber through a chopper gun and mass spread it in molds. Within miles of each other you have MB, Centurion, and Malibu factories so all these guys have experience laying glass just as much as anyone. My boat of choice is a Tomcat 21 or 22. Smaller is better for me bc I feel like there is less adjustment needed and less weight needed to get my desired result. I wakeboard slow around 21-22 with factory ballast and I like to ride a little shorter wake boarding... 65-70. surfing on the smaller boats is such a breeze to set up. fill everything, set speed around 10.8, and go. Play around with center trim tab to flatten wake. Note- depending on how many people are in the boat or if you prefer to run no center trim, these boats have some bow rise due to no factory ballast in the front. Some of our guys plumbed in bags, some lay tractor weights or lead in the front... but if you have concerns with bow rise throw weight up front.

Axis- If I didn't work for an MB dealer an Axis would be the next boat on my to buy list. Again the price is less than some others and the performance is rock solid. Surfgate and wedge are a pretty great thing for Axis Malibu. R&D hit home runs with this stuff. Similar setup running factory full and similar speed for wakeboaridng, and for surfing we run everything full and ride around 11.5-12mph with the wedge down. I have a few T22's a T23, and an A22 that I ride on often. A few of the axis boats too can be overloaded with weight up front. The T22s have dipped a few times because the guys I'm with have them loaded to the hilt. The T23 has over 2k in weight from the windshield forward. it has a fair amount of bow rise otherwise

Moomba- These boats have come a long way. My buddy had the Craz as his shop boat so I spent a fair amount of time on this one too. The auto launch and the trim tab features make a pretty amazing wave and wake. His shop boat prior was a Tige Z3. The moomba crushes that boat in overall performance. We can wakeboard slower and have a much meatier wake with good transition, and the surf wake is a breeze to set up.

These 3 boats for person with a budget in mind have blown me away at how good they really perform. Out of the box for wake boarding and surfing, you can easily fill ballast, set your speed, and go. If you surf and want to tweak the wave you have wedge or center trim tabs to do so. Unfortunately they too are all going up in price. Now for the higher end luxury boats i ride on.

Nautique- A good friend of mine bought a G25 and its definitely badass. The biggest boat I've ever ridden on. yes the wakeboard wake is massive and the surf wake is also pretty damn good. Unfortunately this particular boat only has the 450 and we are at about 3000 feet elevation. It struggles when loaded or a boat load of people. Kind of confusing sometimes using NCRS and NSS but with use it works good. A little surprised though that some stitching in seats is popping in multiple places with the same amount of hours as we put on other boats. maybe they are partying too much i don't know. If moneys not an issue these boats are definitely sweet but spend the money and get the 550 and watch out for the windy days because the front sprays water like crazy.

Mastercraft- We sold a friend of mine his first MC in 2008 and it was an X-15. Would of like to get him into an MB but he's just a MC guy. He bought a 16 X30 and this boat is pretty awesome. Surprising pretty user dash and computer, and just that clean polished master craft look. Gen 2 works really well too. I think most surf systems whether out the side or down the bottom have proven pretty good performance. Haven't wakeboarder on this boat but the surf is good on both sides.

Tige- Another friend had an unfortunate run of bad luck with his first Tige and got them to replace it with a 2016 Z3 after his first lemon. Sadly, I wish he would have maybe tried the RZX or another model. The Z3 is the only model I have been on and its probably my least favorite boat in overall performance for both wake boarding and surfing. I couldn't figure out the wakeboard wake. It would always wash over on both sides no matter how i had weight distributed. I tried everything and I feel like you have to go pretty fast most the time. maybe that was my problem. surf wave can clean up fairly decent but the biggest thing i noticed was lack of push. I could barely ride this thing without getting tired. Trim and finish is great. Looks and feels expensive but my least favorite new boat to ride on.

Centurion-Best friends boyfriend has one maybe an Enzo SV 233? something like that. It looks so badass on the water i wish it performed better too. I love the style and lines on this boat but surprising too, it surfs terrible. I'm on boats a lot for the northwest (100+ days) and this boat still needs to list and lean quite a bit to get a good wave. call me spoiled but anymore i like to fill everything once and keep it level. Ramfill and Cats is unique and works pretty damn good though. Great idea. Wakeboard wake is a little sharp and steep but with enough practice and time you get used to that poppy lip.

This might be long and drawn out but I had the time to write down my opinions on the boats I go out on over the summer. They are all badass and to be honest I can make anything work and ride great. As long as I'm on the water I'm happy. I can't afford my own boat but lucky enough to have friends and customers to go out with which allows me to ride on a lot of different boats.
Old     (chilidog)      Join Date: Dec 2007       10-28-2016, 2:22 PM Reply   
We recently bought a 13 Supra but looked at new Axis and MB and in my opinion I felt for 70K+ I wanted some more bling that a Malibu, Supra, MC or Nautique could provide as compared to the MB. I could settle for a few years older model of the higher end boats to get some more high end equipment. MBs are nice boats for sure. We test drove a Tomcat and it was sweet, but I liked the creature comforts and added features, like touch screen, preset rider profiles, GPS mapping etc, that came with our used Supra SA we picked up. That being said there was some things I liked about the MB I don't like about the supra, like front end height off the water when loaded etc. the B52 has more room inside than my supra too but also more boat to clean. Malibus were way out of our price range at the time for anything within a year or two of being new. This time a year you will see a few 12/13 vlxs pop up for around 70 or a bit less. I will say being the second owner

So really you have to go get in these things in person and demo if possible. It takes alot of time, but then again this is alot of $$ so don't rush it. And also take a look at Supras they are nice boats IMHO and have more dealers out your way than out here I think
Old     (downfortheride)      Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: SLC, UT 5600'       10-29-2016, 9:58 AM Reply   
Well this thread got way off topic it seems, LOL!
Had an MB for 4 years and it was good. Great wake is what sold me on the boat but other areas it gave up on. I'm sure they fixed them by now but the sticking gates were the worst. At times couldn't fill or filled and wouldn't drain was a head ache getting the the manual screw to open them and not strip them out. Had Moomba's and Supra's this season and not one problem with filling and draining ballast via pump.
If this is a boat you're going to keep for quite some time I think you should deal with the pumps and go Malibu. So much easier to change an impeller then a whole gate that has stuck shut or stripped. A little extra bling and a great boat is a plus for years to come.
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       10-29-2016, 11:01 AM Reply   
I disagree a little bit with Tarek, Every one have their opinions and preferences so every choice is up to each of us.
But for me.
First of all, axis feel cheap.. i loved Axis for their style, reability and design. But they are built cheaper and we feel it. Leather is light, scratch really easilly. The windshield looks not very solid, it shake just with the wind.. and the most important thing is they arent monohull and its make a big difference! Many axis have stress cracks and its typically cause of that. BUT! malibu (Axis) hage good warranty and i think they deal very well with issue thats a good plus. Overall a pretty good boat for big crews and wakeboarding. They handle weight perfectly.
But like all said it worth the couple buck addition and go MB. They are better built for my opinion.

For Tige. Yes some have lemon like in every boat make. And yes the tige wakeboard wave always wash a little bit! Thats their huge negative. They are not made for wakeboard primally cause of the hull. The hull design make the boat really sensitive to weight and speed! You can wakeboard yes but if you want a wake boat thats the worst choice haha..
instead for surf. Even surfgate cant compete. The hull make such a good wave that you dont even need to weight your boat crazy like moombas or axis and it makes a huge fuel economy. For my opinion surfgate just have no transition and cant make my air tricks high as bebind my tige.
The board make a really big difference too. Tige are more like if i can say "pro wakesurf" boat.
To have the best surfwave out there you gonna have to spend some real hours dialed every setting. Making lots of different option and after few try you hit the wave of your dream haha.. and you save the setting, remember who where everybody's placed! Yes i admit its a little bit a mess in tje beginning but its really worth the time and price when you want a surf boat.
And now that Tige has their full 5years warranty like malibu's they really are in the game!
Old     (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       10-29-2016, 11:06 AM Reply   
Being local and knowing all the dealers after 30 plus years in the inboard world I will add this.

I love Malibu's boats. But refuse to own one due to multiple negative experiences with the dealer. If you don't have the Minnetonka money they will and do treat you like a second class citizen. There are numerous people on this forum that have had very negative experiences with their service department. I'm not going to call anyone out but they will chime in if they like. I was looking at a used boat there a few years back and they told me it had sold when I inquired about it later. Then about a week later one of the brothers called me and asked if I was still interested in the boat. I figured the deal fell thru and said yes. He then said if I wanted to make an offer higher than the other guy they would take that. That was a huge turn off for me. Or the time the older brother chose to judge my ex-wife by looking at her as to the money she had and how her credit was. Her knowing she had a 800+ score and enough money in the bank to write a check for the boat really pissed her off. She got up and walked out and said we would never ever purchase there. Then add in that they bad mouth every other brand and dealer in the area. Thats how they sell, not on the merit of their product, but by running the competition down. I have more but I will stop there. Like I said I really like the boats and have walked in there multiple times trying to buy a Malibu.

Last I knew no one in the area was carrying MB, which dealer signed on?? According to their site the nearest dealer in Michigan????

Last edited by boardman74; 10-29-2016 at 11:11 AM.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       10-29-2016, 5:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey_butt View Post
thanks everyone for the input ... and to cut it down. Tige would be out - I wakeboard (and my crew does) so it has to be simple. Surfing is playing around - there are so many variables one you just plow thru the water (person in the back vs. front etc.) all that matters so much at that speed except you have a 20ton cabin cruiser ... which we all know that this will be the dream (except the fuel cost).

So having that said - Supra/Nautique are too expensive (and so is MC so that's why it's never mentioned), Axis doesn't cut it, Centurion is too heavy (and so is the Supreme 238S). I have to look at Tige from a weight perspective - anything above 4500 lbs net is out - would need new boat lift and maybe even new tow vehicle ... and I don't want to spend money on lift and car.

And yes I will work on pricing on the MB too because I do feel that I can get it below of the 80K - no question.

I think you're cutting yourwf short here on pricing. At 85k for the 22VLX bu you could easily get into a brand new Nautique 210 . All the bling you could ask for, wakes to kill for . And the attention to detail you just can't find anywhere else. Sure you're dropping to a 21ft'r instead of the 22VLX but the wakes alone , whether wakeboard ore surf, are phenomenal. Hell even throw in a slalom set .

Without a solid local MB network or a well established dealer I would have a hard time dropping 80k on that rig. Makes zero sense. I don't care how good of a deal it is the Malibu wins here. Go shop Nautique tho if you haven't. 210's are still able to had well under 90k
Old     (Ttime41)      Join Date: Nov 2011       10-30-2016, 9:14 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
I think you're cutting yourwf short here on pricing. At 85k for the 22VLX bu you could easily get into a brand new Nautique 210 . All the bling you could ask for, wakes to kill for . And the attention to detail you just can't find anywhere else. Sure you're dropping to a 21ft'r instead of the 22VLX but the wakes alone , whether wakeboard ore surf, are phenomenal. Hell even throw in a slalom set .

Without a solid local MB network or a well established dealer I would have a hard time dropping 80k on that rig. Makes zero sense. I don't care how good of a deal it is the Malibu wins here. Go shop Nautique tho if you haven't. 210's are still able to had well under 90k
Sorry Swat, but the 210 is so outdated in the performance side it's not even funny. I'm with you on the quality and the attention to detail on the Nautique, but the performance of that boat doesn't come anywhere close to the 22VLX. There's no denying that the quality of the Malibu is very subpar, though.

Last edited by Ttime41; 10-30-2016 at 9:20 AM.
Old     (KJonesWakeboarder)      Join Date: Feb 2016       10-30-2016, 3:13 PM Reply   
Maybe Im a little out there for saying it, but maybe take a look at Sanger too if you have a good dealer set up around you or if you're close to the west coast
Old     (Connolly_Crew)      Join Date: Mar 2016       10-30-2016, 5:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
I think you're cutting yourwf short here on pricing. At 85k for the 22VLX bu you could easily get into a brand new Nautique 210 . All the bling you could ask for, wakes to kill for . And the attention to detail you just can't find anywhere else. Sure you're dropping to a 21ft'r instead of the 22VLX but the wakes alone , whether wakeboard ore surf, are phenomenal. Hell even throw in a slalom set .



Without a solid local MB network or a well established dealer I would have a hard time dropping 80k on that rig. Makes zero sense. I don't care how good of a deal it is the Malibu wins here. Go shop Nautique tho if you haven't. 210's are still able to had well under 90k


Hate to be a naysayer buuuttt, if you are going to surf and want a superior surf wake 22vlx all the way.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       10-30-2016, 7:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ttime41 View Post
Sorry Swat, but the 210 is so outdated in the performance side it's not even funny. I'm with you on the quality and the attention to detail on the Nautique, but the performance of that boat doesn't come anywhere close to the 22VLX. There's no denying that the quality of the Malibu is very subpar, though.
ehhhh wat


the 210 has been one of the most consistently high performing hulls ever. It has a cult following for a reason.

The wake is just more "old school" in shape. If everyone on our lake keeps getting PO'd at our freighted t22 wake (22 vlx hull) then a 210 may be the only option.
Old     (Connolly_Crew)      Join Date: Mar 2016       10-30-2016, 7:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
ehhhh wat


the 210 has been one of the most consistently high performing hulls ever. It has a cult following for a reason.

The wake is just more "old school" in shape. If everyone on our lake keeps getting PO'd at our freighted t22 wake (22 vlx hull) then a 210 may be the only option.


I was not bashing 210. I have a good friend with a 15 210 so I do have Alot of experience with this boat. My point is is doesn't throw the same size surf wake, that's all. Nautique builds a great boat
Old     (monkey_butt)      Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Twin Cities       10-30-2016, 9:44 PM Reply   
K - sorry OP is back after a few days not thinking about boats

So to answer a few questions and comments earlier: no I don't want a new boa lift. No I don't want a 21ft boat worth possibly 4 dogs and 3 of them being German shepherds - they take up a lot of room and I enjoy their company and so do my buddies.

And I don't know the local dealer so I can't judge them nor do I necessarily rely on them either ... that's why I had an epic and was fine with that and will buy an MB if it will make the cut. I'm going to see those boats this week in Michigan - so that's my first dr/try run.

So to boardman's input - no I don't live on tonka and I don't have the money to show for it ... I would get the Malibu somewhere else - all I'm going to say. I'll show you the pics later of what I saw/tried ... malibu will be next but will need to fly south.

Next nautique 210? Why would I buy a shorter boat if I get a 22ft Malibu for the same price? Sorry I'm not trying to be condescending but I said numerous times why I need space? The Malibu 22vlx is actually too small on paper so I have to still figure this one out.

Next Tige: out sorry I want to wakeboard surfing is secondary. End of that story.

MC: can't afford

But again thanks for everyone's input - I'm obviously torn and will have a better idea (or so I hope) by end of this week for one of my options ... I'll keep you posted
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       10-31-2016, 4:17 AM Reply   
If price is a concern and you want straight performance then why are you not looking at a t23 or a24. Both would fit on your lift albeit barely.


We went from a tige to axis, ride in nautiques, malibus, mastercrafts.
I miss none of the BS.
I don't have to teach anyone 10x how to use some proprietary interface.
I can talk to my rider through the wind shield.
The wake is easily the most approachable and in my opinion best wakes I have ever ridden.


The quality is equal to any of those boats even if some of the dash materials ar more plastic.

The t23 has the flashiest interiorni in the axis line. You're not doing yourself any favors by excluding them.
Old     (padgett)      Join Date: Sep 2013       10-31-2016, 6:04 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
If price is a concern and you want straight performance then why are you not looking at a t23 or a24. Both would fit on your lift albeit barely.


We went from a tige to axis, ride in nautiques, malibus, mastercrafts.
I miss none of the BS.
I don't have to teach anyone 10x how to use some proprietary interface.
I can talk to my rider through the wind shield.
The wake is easily the most approachable and in my opinion best wakes I have ever ridden.


The quality is equal to any of those boats even if some of the dash materials ar more plastic.

The t23 has the flashiest interiorni in the axis line. You're not doing yourself any favors by excluding them.


Axis has stepped it up on their interior and they do have great wakes. Have heard a few issues of stress cracks. Not sure if it's all true or not
Old     (monkey_butt)      Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Twin Cities       10-31-2016, 6:14 AM Reply   
For obvious reasons the dealer would sell me an Axis and the T23 would fit the weight limit but we never really discussed the price there so before I say anything else I'll have to talk to him.

However - one more question to all MB owners: How often (if any) have you had a repair/warranty issue with any of your boats - and to limit the question somehow to the model year 2015/2016 if possible?

As I said before - no Epic dealer was in that area - I had an issue with the Mercury engine twice (broken relay and later impeller). I wouldn't have found the broken relay so a Mercury dealer was the only option. Impeller I would have figured out - as it was under warranty - again the dealer fixed it at no cost to me but that I could have done myself as well.

Was I just plain lucky or are the 'horror' stories of poor service just taken out of proportion because if something goes wrong it usually gets worse but for every boat with a problem there are 100 more without?
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       10-31-2016, 6:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by padgett View Post
Axis has stepped it up on their interior and they do have great wakes. Have heard a few issues of stress cracks. Not sure if it's all true or not
On like 2 boats?

They have a lifetime hull warranty I wouldn't even worry about it.


I've seen ridiculous issues on every boat. None are exempt. I can tell true horror stories
Old     (padgett)      Join Date: Sep 2013       10-31-2016, 6:28 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
On like 2 boats?



They have a lifetime hull warranty I wouldn't even worry about it.





I've seen ridiculous issues on every boat. None are exempt. I can tell true horror stories


Like I said, not sure on the validity of the stress cracks. I have a Malibu and have had zero issues with anything so far.
Old     (tweeder)      Join Date: Aug 2015       10-31-2016, 9:48 AM Reply   
I'm with simplej on this one. You want a boat for the long haul but want the one that will cost the most on upkeep.

When the warranty is up on the Malibu and you have to replace either one of the two screens you are going to be wishing you had the Axis.

I would be heavily considering the A24 first than the T23.

Last edited by tweeder; 10-31-2016 at 9:55 AM.
Old     (Mxguy741)      Join Date: Nov 2013       10-31-2016, 11:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey_butt View Post
For obvious reasons the dealer would sell me an Axis and the T23 would fit the weight limit but we never really discussed the price there so before I say anything else I'll have to talk to him.

However - one more question to all MB owners: How often (if any) have you had a repair/warranty issue with any of your boats - and to limit the question somehow to the model year 2015/2016 if possible?

As I said before - no Epic dealer was in that area - I had an issue with the Mercury engine twice (broken relay and later impeller). I wouldn't have found the broken relay so a Mercury dealer was the only option. Impeller I would have figured out - as it was under warranty - again the dealer fixed it at no cost to me but that I could have done myself as well.

Was I just plain lucky or are the 'horror' stories of poor service just taken out of proportion because if something goes wrong it usually gets worse but for every boat with a problem there are 100 more without?
I have around 60 hours on my 2016 mb b52 and only time it has been in the shop was for a lenco actuator that failed at around 10 hours.
Old     (SoulSurfer)      Join Date: Oct 2016       10-31-2016, 9:57 PM Reply   
I only have about 55 hours on my 2016 MB F22 but have had zero issues. Love this boat. I'm not much of a wakeboarder, though. Friends who wakeboard say the wake is very aggressive. It does seem a bit weight sensitive side to side, so we use ballast to even it out. One thing I like about my boat is the ride in chop - it is just smoother plain and simple than the Malibu and Axis boats I've been on when conditions turn or we're running across Lake Tahoe. All things are a compromise of some sort - you just have to pick what's the right compromise for you. For me, the build quality, ride quality, simple driver interface and the look feel of the aluminum dash and manual switches, along with the surf performance of the MB won me over. Malibus are truly sweet boats, though, and if you like the higher tech dash and some of the other nice luxury touches you really can't go wrong.
Old     (sambo13)      Join Date: Jun 2009       11-01-2016, 3:59 PM Reply   
Buy an Axis T23 and enjoy having the best bang-for-your-buck wakeboard boat on the planet. Enjoy a massive cockpit that will accomodate your crew and 4 large dogs with room to spare. Enjoy your 5 year everything-covered warranty and the fact that even after your warranty is up, you have a dash and electronics package that is pretty easily repaired/replaced without spending as much as you'd spend on a new boat.

If Axis is on your radar as a possibility, you should very strongly consider that T23. It sounds like it would be a great fit for your needs.

Last edited by sambo13; 11-01-2016 at 4:01 PM.
Old     (IndySkier)      Join Date: Mar 2011       11-05-2016, 9:15 AM Reply   
When it comes time to sell, both brands should retain similar % of purchase price. However, the Malibu will surely sell faster since there's more awareness for the brand among the larger demographic that's interested in an inboard for status vs water sports.
Old     (monkey_butt)      Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Twin Cities       11-05-2016, 7:18 PM Reply   
so yesterday I was trying out an MB52 23 ... saw some great boats at the dealer ... cool color combos even though my favorite one is this one http://www.actionwatersportsaz.com/P...ts-B52-23.aspx
went out - set boat up for wakeboarding. First impression - table is really wide - when walking around the boat it did wash out a bit (speed was at 22.5 and asked to alter between 20.5 to 22 - didn't make much of a difference). To be fair - I couldn't really tell where it would get bad/annoying as I wasn't riding behind it and didn't have a rope to judge. Put quite a damper on me ... but at least experienced the boat first hand. Was otherwise extremely impressed by the clean built - seriously - this engine compartment is so clean and accessible - frigging amazing for those who are used to an cramped engine compartment ... was told a few other things about the 17 models (basically have 4 plugs to winterize - flush and be done ... change of oil filter setup - so some really user friendly things). But that dang wake ... and looking at Mike's pic of the wake above - the table was so much wider ... I was like how would you even clear that (well I suck at wakeboarding so I shouldn't judge). So left dealership and was disappointed/torn ...

Now today - because of the still pretty surprising temps here in MN I got the chance to be in an Axis T22 - nice color combo etc. Maybe I should take this as a bad sign but not getting any bruises for an entire season and we didn't make it off the dock and I was bleeding from a gash on my head I was again not riding - just watching ... the owner went wakeboarding - ballast full (speed 23). Table as wide as the MB - at 75ft riding but it was wide - much wider than I'm used to behind Malibus dating back to 2012. Regardless - boat was also sensitive - moving around caused the same washing as the day before.

Now one more thing as I wasn't talking about surf wake: The MB was on a lake only 5ft deep - there was no way that I would be able to see anything and I'm not going to judge dealer nor boat. Today - surfing was cool but not like OMG - I have been behind a Centurion FS44 about 2 months ago and there I couldn't believe how far back I was ... the T22 for sure wasn't as long and I doubt the MB would be in that category. So having that said - I'm NOT worried about the surf wave in either brand (or any for that matter) - weight/displacement is all that matters ...

So after all that - I will have to make a trip to try out a Malibu 23LSV and maybe an Axis T23 (doubt that this be necessary). So we're almost back to square one ... price. I got a very sweet offer on an MB - can't deny that - color combo similar to this one here (http://www.onlyinboards.com/2017-MB-...ona-60369.aspx
Dealer was very accommodating and would buy from them in a heart beat (plenty of boats in their yard getting winterized - and yes there were about 20 MBs but also 4 BUs, 2 MCs plus others - so that says a lot to me too).

One last thing - annoying for both brands: Both rear corner seat back can't be taken out. Now that makes again not sense to some of you ... but if my dogs go swimming they come back all wet - and no they don't use towels ... so they come in - lay on the seat and guess where all this water ends up ... in the rear corners underneath the cushion/back seat. In my Epic I put drains in for that particular reason because that's where water from dogs (and people for that matter) will end up. Surprising to see carpet on the Axis covering the gel coat underneath the seat cushions (sweet as it doesn't cause dings - bad because the carpet is even worse to drain).

Oh - and one more thing (yes I said that before): Neither boat can be thrown into neutral when you stop to pick up a rider (surfing AND wakeboarding) as it washes up immediately all the way to the sun deck. The reason I'm saying this: I don't know how many times I answered the question about the Epic back speakers 'don't they get soaked etc. blah blah blah ... sorry now I now why people are asking and no they DON'T) - I have plenty of gopro proof - camera mounted in front of the speakers). I really have to say - absolutely surprising how much water comes up on either boat ... and if you're not careful all the way to the sun deck ... but not on an EPIC ... sorry guys - but at least now I understand the question ... except I'm not overly happy about the fact that I have to teach people now not to nose dive but also not to load up in the back ...
Old     (padgett)      Join Date: Sep 2013       11-05-2016, 8:14 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey_butt View Post
so yesterday I was trying out an MB52 23 ... saw some great boats at the dealer ... cool color combos even though my favorite one is this one http://www.actionwatersportsaz.com/P...ts-B52-23.aspx

went out - set boat up for wakeboarding. First impression - table is really wide - when walking around the boat it did wash out a bit (speed was at 22.5 and asked to alter between 20.5 to 22 - didn't make much of a difference). To be fair - I couldn't really tell where it would get bad/annoying as I wasn't riding behind it and didn't have a rope to judge. Put quite a damper on me ... but at least experienced the boat first hand. Was otherwise extremely impressed by the clean built - seriously - this engine compartment is so clean and accessible - frigging amazing for those who are used to an cramped engine compartment ... was told a few other things about the 17 models (basically have 4 plugs to winterize - flush and be done ... change of oil filter setup - so some really user friendly things). But that dang wake ... and looking at Mike's pic of the wake above - the table was so much wider ... I was like how would you even clear that (well I suck at wakeboarding so I shouldn't judge). So left dealership and was disappointed/torn ...



Now today - because of the still pretty surprising temps here in MN I got the chance to be in an Axis T22 - nice color combo etc. Maybe I should take this as a bad sign but not getting any bruises for an entire season and we didn't make it off the dock and I was bleeding from a gash on my head I was again not riding - just watching ... the owner went wakeboarding - ballast full (speed 23). Table as wide as the MB - at 75ft riding but it was wide - much wider than I'm used to behind Malibus dating back to 2012. Regardless - boat was also sensitive - moving around caused the same washing as the day before.



Now one more thing as I wasn't talking about surf wake: The MB was on a lake only 5ft deep - there was no way that I would be able to see anything and I'm not going to judge dealer nor boat. Today - surfing was cool but not like OMG - I have been behind a Centurion FS44 about 2 months ago and there I couldn't believe how far back I was ... the T22 for sure wasn't as long and I doubt the MB would be in that category. So having that said - I'm NOT worried about the surf wave in either brand (or any for that matter) - weight/displacement is all that matters ...



So after all that - I will have to make a trip to try out a Malibu 23LSV and maybe an Axis T23 (doubt that this be necessary). So we're almost back to square one ... price. I got a very sweet offer on an MB - can't deny that - color combo similar to this one here (http://www.onlyinboards.com/2017-MB-...ona-60369.aspx

Dealer was very accommodating and would buy from them in a heart beat (plenty of boats in their yard getting winterized - and yes there were about 20 MBs but also 4 BUs, 2 MCs plus others - so that says a lot to me too).



One last thing - annoying for both brands: Both rear corner seat back can't be taken out. Now that makes again not sense to some of you ... but if my dogs go swimming they come back all wet - and no they don't use towels ... so they come in - lay on the seat and guess where all this water ends up ... in the rear corners underneath the cushion/back seat. In my Epic I put drains in for that particular reason because that's where water from dogs (and people for that matter) will end up. Surprising to see carpet on the Axis covering the gel coat underneath the seat cushions (sweet as it doesn't cause dings - bad because the carpet is even worse to drain).



Oh - and one more thing (yes I said that before): Neither boat can be thrown into neutral when you stop to pick up a rider (surfing AND wakeboarding) as it washes up immediately all the way to the sun deck. The reason I'm saying this: I don't know how many times I answered the question about the Epic back speakers 'don't they get soaked etc. blah blah blah ... sorry now I now why people are asking and no they DON'T) - I have plenty of gopro proof - camera mounted in front of the speakers). I really have to say - absolutely surprising how much water comes up on either boat ... and if you're not careful all the way to the sun deck ... but not on an EPIC ... sorry guys - but at least now I understand the question ... except I'm not overly happy about the fact that I have to teach people now not to nose dive but also not to load up in the back ...


Malibu 23 lsv all the way
Old     (brianinpdx)      Join Date: Aug 2009       11-14-2016, 7:58 PM Reply   
What a long thread.... a lot of people make a lot of great points. In simplest terms, I think the MB B52 is hands down a great competition to the Bu's. I recently did a side by side with my MB sitting next to IXFE's LSV23 and to be honest we went back and forth on what was nicer between the boats.

I think if I was in your shoes, I'd go MB and try to save some $$ over the BU. If money is less concern then I'd go Bu over the MB. In every market I've been to MB's are usually 10K+ cheaper. IF they are the same price as the LSV23 then I'd go BU for the resale. However my '16 B52 sold in 1 day. I think MB has closed some of the gap on the BU's however they are indeed a smaller company and don't have the dealer network that BU has. Point being get a boat from a local dealer close to you. Or take Sdog's advice and pick up a used MB or BU and save even more. I sold my '16 with 130 hours on it.


Here's mine tied up in Tahoe
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-15-2016, 6:24 AM Reply   
As to this "wide table" thing... other than ego, is there a reason not to just pull the rope in 5-8'? I'm no stud wakeboarder and I've had no problem clearing the wake of either the 23' MB or axis T22. Though I don't ride at 75' either, because then yeah, you'd have to be pretty aggro on the cut.

And not sure what you mean about not cutting to neutral when a rider drops? I mean that's how we have always done it on the very two boats you mention. If surfing heavy the cut to neutral is accompanied by spinning the wheel to the non-surf side so the following roller will spin the boat around. Neither MB nor much lower freeboard axis has ever taken water from behind.
Old     (RWBVride)      Join Date: Aug 2010       11-15-2016, 9:25 AM Reply   
I have to go back to what Bakes said earlier in this thread. Your lift at a 5,000lb limit is going to be maxed out big time if not well over. Both boats you're looking at are 4300lbs dry. Both will accomodate ~300lbs of fuel or more in the MB's case(~400lbs). Add gear and stereo and whatever else, you're really going to be pushing that limit. If it were me I would look at smaller boats which doeesn't sound like an option or get a new lift. I guess you could always unload the boat before lifting it every time but that sounds like a real pain. I'll continue to follow this thread as I really like both boats and am interested in what you end up with. Good luck!

Last edited by RWBVride; 11-15-2016 at 9:29 AM.
Old     (monkey_butt)      Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Twin Cities       11-15-2016, 5:57 PM Reply   
Trying to reply both of you ... table width was more surprising on the axis than on the MB because I EXPECTED it to be narrower from my really dared experiences behind a malibu. After talking to the dealer he did indicate the 2 hull choices (diamond vs. wakeboard) so I researched that ... conclusion of that seems to be that it only makes a difference at higher speeds and if you buy 23ft boat for waterskiing (which I don't do) you're buying the wrong boat in the first place ...
Having that said - the table on both epics I owned was never that wide - so consider this also - I haven't been in a boat 2015 or newer since late summer of this year. So prolly more an issue of surprise other than anything else. And yes I would never ride at 75 ... 65 is plenty for me ...

Washing up the sun deck: honestly never had to worry about it - regardless of wakeboarding or surfing - not turning of turning - no wash from behind. I learned driving when we only were boarding and you waited for the wake to pass the boat so it wouldn't bounce around when turning to pick up the rider. Guess old school old me ... but the epics never washed over - loaded or not - all I can say. New boat new rules all good ... I can still learn new tricks ... maybe ...

Last topic -weight: well in 2012 when buying my Floe lift - 5000 lbs seem to be plenty ... it kinda changed since ...

So I'm aware of the weight issue - fully fueled etc. I have maybe a 10% tolerance without risking a life but prefer not to go there every time if possible. Yes we unload before lifting boat - just hold it in place. Sad part is that I'm getting a trade offer on my lift of 3.5k ... and the new one will be 14k ... maybe here goes my Malibu ...

And last - I have been looking at 2016 LSVs - two priced in the range I'm willing to spend and color combo along the way I like which would pay for the new lift because of price and no tax due to being a private sale.

Haven't told wifey all about this - she's willing to cash 401 after last weeks disaster (please don't turn this into a political thread - yes I'm disappointed but that is democracy at its best). I told her not to but maybe there's a G25 in
my future

And last: if I would buy the axis I feel like I would have given in to the dealer network issue ... being scared ... I have drilled holes into my boats and will find a way to drain that water underneath those seats too ... having that said I really lean towards the MB ... will put up design specs for it ... MB is that cobalt blue/silver with brown interior ... Malibu/Axis would be grey with orange accents ...
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       11-15-2016, 8:03 PM Reply   
This thread makes my head hurt.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       11-15-2016, 8:39 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
As to this "wide table" thing... other than ego, is there a reason not to just pull the rope in 5-8'?
In my experience the shorter the rope the harder it is to cut out and more tied down you feel. I much prefer riding a wake which allows a long rope with narrow table. In my hayday with the older smaller boats we used to ride 85ft rope and 23.5mph, now I'm older and don't ride as much we ride slower and shorter but still 75ft normally. Any shorter definitely changes the fun factor for me
Old     (monkey_butt)      Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Twin Cities       12-07-2016, 7:52 AM Reply   
so here are the pics of the builds for both boats.

I'm heading out to test the Malibu this weekend ... don't know what to expect to be honest but know that the dealer will apply all the pressure to close the deal while being at his shop ...

I had another exchange with the MB dealer earlier this week and MB Sports themselves have thrown some freebies in (thank you MB Sports) ... but price wise ... the MB is more than the Axis T23 (the builds are similar to the LSV) and obviously less than the Malibu ...

well someone said in a different thread any money saved on the purchase price buys a lot of gas ... have to take that to heart too
Attached Images
      
Old     (TomH)      Join Date: Jan 2014       12-07-2016, 11:14 AM Reply   
Liking the looks of the new tower on the MB versus their previous one. Also really like the colors you've got built out on that MB
Old     (monkey_butt)      Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Twin Cities       12-07-2016, 2:00 PM Reply   
Not 100% sure on the teak color flooring - was the same I had on my epic before... grey looks pretty good too
Old     (Connolly_Crew)      Join Date: Mar 2016       12-07-2016, 5:39 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey_butt View Post
Not 100% sure on the teak color flooring - was the same I had on my epic before... grey looks pretty good too


Both nice boats, the Malibu will be much easier to sell simply due to the fact that there will be many more people looking for the 23 LSV at any given time. Ask me how I know.

Boats boats are great and I am sure will do more than needed.
Old     (monkey_butt)      Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Twin Cities       12-08-2016, 9:52 AM Reply   
so I am asking ;-)

How do you know that the Malibu will sell much easier? Personally I think selling something used over 60K is narrowing the group of possible buyers down a lot - simply because at one point you're reaching out to a group which can possibly afford more (and/or new) easily and may become more picky (color etc.).
Old     (Connolly_Crew)      Join Date: Mar 2016       12-08-2016, 12:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey_butt View Post
so I am asking ;-)



How do you know that the Malibu will sell much easier? Personally I think selling something used over 60K is narrowing the group of possible buyers down a lot - simply because at one point you're reaching out to a group which can possibly afford more (and/or new) easily and may become more picky (color etc.).


Malibu sells nearly 1/2 of all wakeboard boats sold new every year. It's brand is we'll known and has great exposure therefore it is a highly desirable brand. Used boats are not hard to sell over 60k if the boat is priced fairly. You would be surprised how many people would rather buy a two year old boat for 78 rather than a new boat for 95.
That being said I buy Malibu and sell them lightning fast, even during the off season. I will continue to buy Malibu sure to the fact that they sell so quickly.
As a matter of fact I just sold my 15' 23 LSV.

Last edited by Connolly_Crew; 12-08-2016 at 12:12 PM.
Old     (skiboarder)      Join Date: Oct 2006       12-08-2016, 1:56 PM Reply   
Malibu is a global brand. MB is regional. I have know 2 people in 20+ years of wakeboarding in Texas that have owned MBs. Neither of them own one now. When it comes to resale there is a large portion of the map that there is essentially zero brand recognition.

I am not speaking about the quality, comfort, value, etc of the MB. For all I know they make a great boat.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       12-09-2016, 11:31 AM Reply   
I've bought and sold a ton of boats over the years. My Nautiques and Malibu's essentially sold themselves. I sold my last Malibu 22VLX in one week for asking price on OIB.

Yeah, the big 3 typically sell much better because of greater brand recognition, a deeper pool of prospective buyers and much better overall dealer support.
Old     (monkey_butt)      Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Twin Cities       12-12-2016, 12:56 PM Reply   
alea acta est ...

so here it is - final build.

what made the final decision surprisingly easy was the fact that the boat just puts out the clean wake at 18mph (something I remembered from my wakeboard lessons in Florida) - my wife had a hard time with the wash from the epic and if we went faster she got scared and so have any beginners on the boat in the past). It was also less sensitive to weight shifting - my 2nd concern - there were 4 adults in the boat and 2 kids and they weren't necessarily stationary and I wasn't on purpose but the change in the lip was minimal.

resisted to add more options to the boat during the final configuration - but adding more orange to the hull (instead of the orange being below water line) and removed the orange from the interior as well as from the interior accent and kept trailer at standard ... yes 18" wheels look nice but the trailer is only used to store boat during winter times and otherwise sits on the side of the house ...

thanks everyone for the input again - sorry MB Sports ... I still prefer the color combo on the MB but the wake was the main factor in this decision.
Attached Images
  

Last edited by monkey_butt; 12-12-2016 at 12:58 PM. Reason: wrong pics
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       12-12-2016, 2:44 PM Reply   
Congrats you'll a love it. Great boat!!
Old     (Connolly_Crew)      Join Date: Mar 2016       12-12-2016, 3:00 PM Reply   
Beautiful boat!
Old     (Gotmods)      Join Date: Nov 2012       12-13-2016, 12:25 AM Reply   
That copper flake is my favorite color out of any new boat.
Old     (rexlex01)      Join Date: Mar 2010       12-13-2016, 6:30 AM Reply   
So how much more is your cost over the MB?
You mentioned Net 4500lbs. is out, are you going to spend more for a lift, maybe another tow vehcle?
Speaking of resale, how did your Epic vinyl hold up to the dogs?
Nice boat. Make sure to post pics of the build process.
Old     (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       12-13-2016, 7:23 AM Reply   
Great choice! Congratulations on your new toy.
Old     (monkey_butt)      Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Twin Cities       12-13-2016, 7:30 AM Reply   
I can't disclose the numbers I'm sorry - I owe that to each of the dealers I talked to. I didn't go shopping for prices as I tried to be fair to both of them. Having that said - the difference between the MB vs. the Malibu was within the discussed range in this thread.

I asked the dealer one more time about the net weight for the 23LSV and he confirmed that the weight would be 4500 lbs. including the majority of the equipment (surf gate, stereo, etc.). Once I'll get the boat I will do the weight test on a scale here to get the final numbers. So the lift stays for now - I'm checking into new boat lifts and will list mine in the next few days to see if someone is interested.

Vinyl held up fine - the dogs didn't cause actual damage - only streaks on a particular type of it (Malibu uses the same type on the sections above shown in white).

No pics of build process - didn't order the album ... $250 for pics?

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