Aint going to be much wakeboarding if th!is crap keeps up

Is America divided and dying

America is more divided amongst its citizens than at nearly anytime in its history.
We have red states blue states; Muslim Americans, Hispanic Americans, African Americans, Native Americans, Italian Americans, Irish Americans, White Americans, etc instead of “Just Americans”.

We have many that propose sweeping cultural and social changes in our way of life and government and those that believe in the more traditional ideas and values espoused by our founding fathers in the Declaration of Independence, our Constitution and their Christian faith.
All these ideas are being viciously fought for by all sides while our Country is going bankrupt.

What is happening is closely akin to a ship that is sinking from flooding and fire while the crew which has the capacity to deal with the damage simply fights amongst themselves.

Make no mistake about it my friend, when America’s ship sinks, all hands will be lost and that includes you.

Many of our states like California are billions of dollars in debt with no known plan to resolve the problem.

Our National security is severely threatened as swarms of illegal aliens of all nationalities come across the Mexican border.

The Mexican drug cartels have taken control of some cities in Mexico and even some police departments have completely abandoned border towns out of fear.

Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and California are swamped with crime and lawlessness, seeing significant rise in murder and kidnapping of Americans.

American citizens in some areas are so frightened that they do not go out at night.

The financial drain on state governments along the border and around the country in general caused by this illegal immigration has also been staggering.

Who is right and who is wrong will be academic as America may soon fall into chaos as our institutions and civil authorities no longer have the funds to operate and our own huge union worker populations join the activities of those in Europe.

A number of European countries for example like Greece and France are seeing massive demonstrations and burning in the streets.
Their airports and gas stations are shut down by union members apposed to the cut backs and emergency measures being taken to avoid their country’s total economic collapse.

Many reports indicate that these scenes will soon be repeated in Spain and Portugal.

Great Britain, one of the most socialized of European governments has recently enacted proactive legislation to curtail its own government health-care expenditures and other social programs in an attempt to head off disaster.

The hand writing has been on the wall for America for quite some time now.

You see that’s the problem because America too, is absolutely broke.

We currently borrow tremendous amounts of money just to meet our daily financial obligations from totalitarian governments like Communist China.

Our indebtedness to Communist China has given them more influence over us, especially in terms of our foreign policy.

America’s debt is so large some economic experts believe it is not realistically payable and that we will soon collapse under our overwhelming debt.

This massive debt has been caused by the huge government waste of taxpayer’s resources on foolish pet programs and by social entitlement programs like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare of various forms, overly generous unemployment compensation, government pensions, grants, subsidies and free giveaways to numerous countries around the world and here at home.

Just one example is the curtailing of American offshore drilling and the prohibition on the drilling for oil in places like Alaska while we subsidize countries like Brazil to the tune of billions of dollars for their oil drilling projects.

Another classic example is the millions of dollars wasted to research “hooking up” in college, it’s simply economic insanity.

It has been proven time and time again that those who are cared for by their government become crippled and unwilling to help themselves. This fact is beyond dispute.

Denmark did a study in unemployment compensation where they gave benefits for five years. They found that only after the five years of financial benefits had ended did those on unemployment go out and find work. So, Denmark cut back the time to 4 years, then 3 years then 2 years and finally one year.

In every case when the time ran out on financial compensation from the government, then and only then did those people go out and find jobs.

Simply put they found that people became addicted in a “parasitic sense” to social financial aid.

In America’s case the parasite is about to kill it’s host.

Addiction intervention study findings are very similar, only when finally confronted, when rock bottom is hit, when you can no longer rely on somebody else to parasite off of, when your world starts to fall completely apart, does the addict finally take steps to try and help themselves.

A large part of American society has become addicted to the government taking care of them (in one way or another) and many politicians have taken advantage of this phenomenon for their re-election aspirations which has led to the creation of a huge and expensive government bureaucracy that administers these programs.

If one’s goal was to destroy the United States of America then the current economic path we are on is the way to do it.

America is dying and you and I have to make some hard choices if we wish to survive, its just that simple.

If you are one of those people that says “I don’t care, I just want my check”, then I am not talking to you because you are a big part of the problem.

What happened to America, what happened to us?

What caused this kind of entitlement mentality in America?

Are these the values and ideas on which America was founded and which has made America the greatest country since the foundation of the world?

Not hardly, is the short answer but lets examine just a few of those ideas and values espoused by our founding documents and the history of the creation of the United States of America.

The 13 colonies fought a bloody war for their independence against England and formed the United States of America for a number of reasons and beliefs:

They did not want taxation without representation.
They wanted freedom of religion (“not freedom from religion”) instead of the state mandated protestant religion of England.
They wanted the right to bear arms.

They did not want government interference in their lives.
They wanted the right to own property without fear of the government taking it away from them.
They wanted the right to “pursue” life liberty and happiness
(not the government’s vain attempts to guarantee it through social programs)

They fiercely believed that their rights were endowed to them by God and not the state.
They fiercely believed in their Christian faith and the morals based on it.
They fiercely believed in limited government.
They fiercely believed that “government works best when it governs the least”
They believed in their rugged independence and self reliance
They fiercely believed they should pay their debts and that it is much better to “owe” no man
They fiercely believed in hard work and the enjoyment of the fruits of their labors.
They fiercely believed in their personal freedoms as espoused on the flag with the rattlesnake that says “Don’t tread on me”.
They fiercely believed in charity for those who are “truly” unable to take care of themselves

So how did we get so far off of the beaten path so far from our traditional beliefs and values?

Everybody seems to want a hand out from the government these days, millions of Americans want free health care, free money, free housing, free transportation, guaranteed a job, a pension etc.

Our government, too big and out of control, has taken state control over health care, the auto industry, student loans and in a number of other financial areas, sometimes through executive orders without constitutional benefit of congressional legislation.

This is just part of why there has been so much opposition to the policies of the progressive liberal Democrats, the Obama administration and against a number of Republican candidates with similar over spending ideas, as seen in some of the successful candidates of the Tea Party defeating them in various primary elections.

America has lost its way, lost its faith in an Almighty God, lost its way in the pursuit of what is right, lost its way in basic moral decency and hard work.

For those who want all this government free stuff?

Our founding fathers would say “GET OFF YOUR DEAD ASS AND DO IT FOR YOURSELF”!

This Tuesdays election may be the start of the last best chance to restore and save The United States of America,.... and maybe Wakeboarding as well (;-

Have a good day out their sports fans;

Best regards,
The Wakeboard Geezer

I don't think any election will be the "start of the last best chance" to restore and save the good ole USA, as long as these career politicians have big money and their own agendas fueling their lies...I do however agree with the majority of your post though. Alot of truth there. We're headed down a wreckless road for sure.

Geezer, NON-WAKEBOARDING FORUM.

if you hate america then leave

i thought this was a forum for wakeboarding get on a political forum lol

Our founding fathers would say “GET OFF YOUR DEAD ASS AND DO IT FOR YOURSELF”!

I'll go tell my 97 year old Grandmother that, she doesn't need nor deserve social security or medicare. I'll be glad when in two years the American public finds out the charade of these so called "Tea Party" people is and they just disappear. Geesh...

"They fiercely believed in their Christian faith and the morals based on it."

I can't believe people say this with a clear conscience. G. Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, etc. were not devout, holy rollers.

"American citizens in some areas are so frightened that they do not go out at night."

This was true when Nixon, Reagan, Bush I and II were president, so what does being Democrat or Republican have to do with it?

Matt: @ The top of the Forums it say's in bold Non-Wakeboarding Discussion

Where else would you say that something like this should be posted?

IMO It's just another person trying to tell you to STFU. And if you don't like political threads I understand. Put your head back in the sand and click on another thread there is a bunch more that could use your imput

So back to the topic
Some very good points! IMO the reason we are in the Position we are currently in is BECAUSE we the American public have been asleep! We have given over the power to our leaders who serve them self's and Not the people that got them their. When you see something that's WRONG what do you do about it? Most people do NOTHING and silence is Approval!

Time to speak up! And Time to do something. Get involved. Try to talk to your Neighbors and People around you. Don't be afraid to voice your Opinion. The silent majority are getting rail roaded by the very Vocal special interest. IT'S NOT ABOUT RIGHT or LEFT wing it’s about RIGHT or WRONG Find out what you can do before it’s too late. Places like this are a perfect place to discuss problems and solutions

^G, it was first posted in the Wakeboarding Forum.

@Jeremy
"
American citizens in some areas are so frightened that they do not go out at night. " This is an absolute fact and has been widely reported in news papers and in the visual media and relates to the problems along our border with Mexico.

@Jeremy
Lets look at Ben Franklin just for starters:

He said this:

“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. "I firmly believe this". I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech"

and this:

“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]"

I could go on and on about Franklin's Christian faith but I will end it with this:

In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern. In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as "a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone.

Kinda "churchy" ideas for a guy you claim didn't particularly believe in Jesus Christ.

Quote after quote in regards to Jefferson and Washington could also be posted here but it appears you are not searching for truth, facts, or reason, you seem to only want what you want, you seem to be tied to an ideology as your religion and it appears that you simply argue for arguments sake. Why is that?

@"G"
"When you see something that's WRONG what do you do about it? Most people do NOTHING and silence is Approval!"

That is exactly what has happened and has gone a long way in putting us in the precarious situation we find ourselves in.

The real question is,..what do we do about it,... do we continue arguing just for the sake of arguing while the ship sinks from fire and flooding?

It's really sad that a large portion of the population think it's the government is supposed to take of their every need. I blame a lot of our problems on lawyers, the media, and apathy. You can still make a difference though. For example, about 7 years ago, a policeman told my wife that if someone breaks into your house, help them carry the TV out so the thief will not hurt him/herself. THAT'S WHAT THE POLICEMAN SAID!!! I thought. With some work, however, we can now shoot when threatened after some good people were elected into office. Voters have to educate themselves about issues because the most of the media is liberal press these days.

"@Jeremy
"
American citizens in some areas are so frightened that they do not go out at night. " This is an absolute fact and has been widely reported in news papers and in the visual media and relates to the problems along our border with Mexico."

But I am sure there are American citizens in Maine or Alaska or Hawaii (or any other US state that is nowhere near the border of Mexico) that are "so frightened that they do not go out at night".

I don't know about the country going broke because I think we Americans have the best lifestyle on the planet!! If you want to see a broke country, try visiting the Philippines. I've never been to Haiti but that place looked pretty broke on TV.

The worldwide population has grown more than 800%, and the US population has grown more than 12,000% since the declaration of independence, and we are still on top!! It's not perfect but if you don't like this country, GTFO. I'm not scared to walk in my city so I don't know what you're talking about.

Colin, do you even realize how in debt our country is? We're running off of foreign countries like China essentially propping us up...

Yes I do realize the debt but that is only one part of the big picture. The United States is the #1 economy of the world! That is beyond awesome. Look at our annual GDP, it's something like $14 trillion!! No other country comes close to America.

It doesn't really matter what our gross GDP is, it isn't enough to run the country because we continue to borrow more and tax more to do that.
We grew our debt by approximately 5 trillion just in the last 2 years over and above what it already was.
America is flat broke, we are paying out/spending far more than we take in.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that that can't last much longer.
We have borrowed so much money that America's triple A bond rating is in jeopardy.
Medicare, Medicaid and social security are insolvent we borrow the money to pay the bills.
When we can't borrow anymore money printing more makes it worth even less.
The Gove can continue to send out checks when that happens but they won't be worth the paper they are written on.
We need to do something to fix these problems.

I'm glad you are not afraid to go out at night where you live but on the border many people don't make your claim.
The mayor of Tijuana- “It’s a real war,” says Jorge Ramos, mayor of Tijuana, Mexico, across the border with San Diego. “We’re not faking.”
The whole story is here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29516551/
It is a very real and very bad problem that some seem to be ignoring for some reason.

The top of the Forums it say's in bold Non-Wakeboarding Discussion

Where else would you say that something like this should be posted?

Over regulation and government interference at the local and federal level affects nearly everything we do in our daily lives these days, "including wakeboarding".

If people can't find decent work, that means fewer wake products are purchased, that means fewer business owners selling those products can stay in business and the policies of government that impacts that obviously has "direct application" to our sport among other things.

There are reports about laws being passed to prevent "ballasting", "prohibiting wakes large enough to wakeboard on"
"The EPA is getting involved in areas that strangle a company's ability to produce inboard motors for marine use, as in wakeboard boats etc etc

So please don't tell me this does not effect wakeboarding.

^I'm glad that you are naive enough to believe that voting Republican is going to fix all of America's problems.

@ Scott:

I'll go tell my 97 year old Grandmother that, she doesn't need nor deserve social security or medicare. I'll be glad when in two years the American public finds out the charade of these so called "Tea Party" people is and they just disappear. Geesh...

I'm glad you have a Grandmother, I wish I did but all of mine are dead, Grandfathers and Father also but I do have a mother that is 85 years old and she draws social security and part of a Navy Vets pension who enrolled in the Survivor Benefit Plan (basically insurance payed in by the vet with his own money).

Nobody including me advocates taking your Grandmother's or my Mother's social security check.

But here is the problem Scott, America really is broke economically.

Social security will go belly up in the very near future and when it does, the checks our loved ones receive now won't be worth the paper they are printed on,
then what do they do?

America spends more than it makes, it's just that simple and we have some tough decisions to make if we are going to fix it.

Ignoring this problem is not going to make it go away.

There have been a number of proposals put on the table in regards to SS, one "might" be to increase the retirement age of younger people.
The problem with that is it makes younger people mad.

Another idea was to give some of the money back to those who have been paying in for years and let them invest it themselves apart from the Gove.
The problem with that is,.. what happens if people are irresponsible and blow the money on a Malibu wake boat and then find themselves in dire straights when they are much older and restricted to wake surfing only? (probably a bad analogy as I'm for using the money I paid in to buy the Malibu)

Still you should get the point and the point is "Nobody", not Dems, Reps, Libertarians, or Independents (whatever you want to call yourself) wants to truly tackle the problem.

Originally Posted by wakeboardgeezer

It doesn't really matter what our gross GDP is, it isn't enough to run the country because we continue to borrow more and tax more to do that.
We grew our debt by approximately 5 trillion just in the last 2 years over and above what it already was. America is flat broke, we are paying out/spending far more than we take in.....

The GDP doesn't matter? Really? That's like saying your paycheck doesn't matter. Why do you think the UK has made massive cutbacks in gov spending? Because they don't have the GDP to balance their budget!

Are we really flat broke? Come on, we're on a boat forum; almost everyone on this forum has at least one ~$50k toy to play with. America is home to the most millionares and most BILLIONARES on this planet! Please tell me how we are broke.

Speaking of national debt, can you tell me what nations on this planet don't have any debt? I can tell you which ones: the ****ty ones that no bank will lend money to!

America ain't perfect but it's damn better than most anywhere else on this planet. The sky is not falling! All this self-loathing is getting old!

It doesn't matter if what is going out the door is more than what is coming in.

US National debt is currently around $13.6 trillion, our GDP is around $14.6 trillion. We are the world's #1 economy, by a longshot!

Telling yourself over and over that there isn't a severe debt problem in America does not change the fact that it exists.

"I want your money"
is very entertaining and very eye opening.
Here is the trailer;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEPPHjKIZps

Always have to laugh when people believe Reagan as a fiscal conservative, (sure he was, ; )

You're doing the same thing by telling us America is flat broke, but it does not change the fact that we are the #1 economy in the world, with the biggest GDP of any country in the word, the most millionares in the world, the most billionares in the world, we are the best country in the world. Can you agree with that?

I don't get you Geez. You go from writing poems and songs ("I like Chili and wakeboard riding till I'm silly), to being all doom and gloom in less than two months. Turn off Fox News and Limbaugh and get out and enjoy life because before you know it, you are going to be dead and gone and the amount of US debt isn't going to mean anything.

@Jeremy

^I'm glad that you are naive enough to believe that voting Republican is going to fix all of America's problems.

I think that is the first actual decent point you have made that makes any real sense.
There have been some Republicans that act more like liberal progressive Democrats than the conservatives they are supposed to be so some of those folks are also part of the over all problem as well and to the extent possible some were defeated in the primaries before the election was even held, which was a good thing.

@Jeremy

Turn off Fox News and Limbaugh and get out and enjoy life because before you know it, you are going to be dead and gone and the amount of US debt isn't going to mean anything.

Just telling it like it is my friend, you can't get alot of factual information from most of the rest, of the lame stream media so Fox News and Rush are just some of your best bets for good information.
And you are wrong again Jeremy, because the amount of US debt will affect my children and my children's children for many years to come, whether I am here or not makes little difference so it needs to be dealt with.
Sorry you don't like the bad news but in the real world, it should not take a rocket scientist to know you can't keep spending more than you make for years and years and expect everything to be hunky dory forever.
It is better to know the facts than putting your head in the sand and acting like the problem doesn't exist.

@Collin P

we are the best country in the world. Can you agree with that?

#1 economy in the world

Maybe, maybe not and or maybe not for long,.... According to the World Economic Forum at
http://www.weforum.org/en/initiative...port/index.htm

"Switzerland tops the overall ranking in The Global Competitiveness Report 2010-2011 released by the World Economic Forum. The United States falls two places to fourth position, overtaken by Sweden (2nd) and Singapore (3rd). The Nordic countries continue to be well positioned in the ranking, with Sweden, Finland (7th) and Denmark (9th) among the top 10, and with Norway at 14th. Sweden overtakes the US and Singapore this year to be placed 2nd overall. The United Kingdom, after falling in the rankings over recent years, moves back up by one place to 12th position."

and according to Bloomberg Buisnessweek
(http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...017_916634.htm)
the U.S. does have the most millionaires in the world but;
"Japan, Britain, Germany, and Italy have the most households in the $100 million-plus bracket, and in terms of growth, China (up 74%), Brazil (up 27%), and Russia (up 26%) saw the highest rates last year."

From an economic competitive growth stand point we are being outstripped by countries like Communist China, which incidentally owns a substantial amount of our debt.
The number of millionaires in America actually has little to do with our Governments excessive debt except that Liberal Democrats want to take more of their money than yours or mine in their socialistic redistribution "Spread the wealth scheme".

Here is a good read you may be interested in;
"China is seeking to exploit American economic woes
"http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2010/10/china_seeking_to_exploit_ameri.html

Overall I agree with you that America has been a great country.
I have fought and bled for her around the globe over 22 years while serving in the U.S. Navy.
I have proven my love and dedication to America with action, while many people have stood by the side "theoretically speaking empty words" while ignoring real threats and dangers to our country.

Perhaps my position differs from yours primarily in that I would like to "keep America #1 in all the best respects" while perhaps you and others are satisfied to rest on its laurels of past greatness.

In 1835 Alexis de Tocqueville, a French historian, traveled America as it was coming into its own as a nation. He wrote down his observations about this unique new country in "Democracy in America". He was not a super patriot or founder of America.

This classic provides unique insight into what made America such a rapid success; indeed, the explosive growth of our infant country was bewildering to those old European empires.

Here are just a few of his observations;

It wasn't our natural resources (the old empires had access to those), and it wasn't a huge population (this rugged continent was sparsely populated), and it wasn't a huge military built over centuries (we were barely half a century old when Democracy in America was published). It was none of the things we might think essential to a great nation.

The secret of America's success was instead a religion of humility, love, self-control and righteousness: Christianity.

He said;
"...they brought with them into the New World a form of Christianity which I cannot better describe than by styling it a democratic and republican religion. This sect contributed powerfully to the establishment of a democracy and a republic, and from the earliest settlement of the emigrants politics and religion contracted an alliance which has never been dissolved." (until perhaps now?, my words)

He also said: ...
"there is no country in the whole world in which the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America; and there can be no greater proof of its utility, and of its conformity to human nature, than that its influence is most powerfully felt over the most enlightened and free nation of the earth."

de Toqueville found that America's Christian culture not only promotes a peaceful society, but also protects against the decadent tyranny that always results from unrestrained freedom (the freedom where individuals do not restrain their own behavior):

There are a number of things that one might point to that has made America the envy of the world but a quote attributed to de Tocqueville goes something like this:

"America is great because she is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, she will cease to be great."

That fundamental goodness of America was built on Christianity and the gospel of Jesus Christ, this can be argued by some but just the same, it is a fact that is beyond dispute.

Our culture over all, (spearheaded by progressive secular humanistic liberals) no longer seems to revere the "Hand of Providence" that has delivered us over and over again in times of trouble all these many years.

Have we lost our "goodness" in this present culture?

If we have lost our goodness then truly,.. we are no longer great.

Well geez, the Repubs took back over control of the House, so our country should be hunky dory in the next few months and wakeboarding is safe once again.

Originally Posted by wake77

Well geez, the Repubs took back over control of the House, so our country should be hunky dory in the next few months and wakeboarding is safe once again.

Classic reply from a stoner...

Originally Posted by wakeboardgeezer

And you are wrong again Jeremy, because the amount of US debt will affect my children and my children's children for many years to come, whether I am here or not makes little difference so it needs to be dealt with.
Sorry you don't like the bad news but in the real world, it should not take a rocket scientist to know you can't keep spending more than you make for years and years and expect everything to be hunky dory forever.
It is better to know the facts than putting your head in the sand and acting like the problem doesn't exist.

You know what's going to affect your children a lot more than govt debt? The fact that the current generation is exporting 1/2 trillion a year of our economy overseas. The fact that manufacturing jobs are going away because of our desire to buy cheap goods made in foriegn countries. Does Fox ever spell that out for you? No they don't. Neither do the politicians. How is it that we are so brilliant to be able to recognize that deficit spending is bad, but a deficit economy isn't?

The future generations are going to pay the price for our reluctance to produce and our choice of how we consume. The future generation is going to pay for our greed and unwillingness to recognize that it's a matter of national security that we protect our economy, educate our youth, and that jobs for all levels of education are essential. Who is going to unite us to pay the price for preserving our nation? It isn't going to be anyone who's primary concern is getting a party back in power.

You may not like Obama for stimulous spending, or healthcare reform. But my money says that the Republican's aren't going to fix anything, They spent what's been estimated to be an obligation of $5 trillion in 2 wars while the false economy marched towards disaster, and the best they have to offer is that domestic deficit spending is now the problem.

No matter how you look at it a healthy economy does spread the wealth. It's spreads the wealth by everyone participating and producing. Where companies profit from sales, not from investments. Economies where a few are wealthy and the rest are poor and struggling are never considered healthy or productive. That's where the US economy is headed. And it's not because of taxes or the govt debt. It's because of our behavior, lack of insight, and not caring whether someone else has a job as long as we do.

But we are a democracy and as more people become jobless, those remaining with an income are going to have to pay an increasing tax burden. The best way to lower taxes is to bite the bullet, insist that our govt focus what it takes to control the trade deficit, and pay increased prices for domestic made products. Do it now or later when it becomes more painful. It's not like you will have a choice in the future. And ultimately even Fox won't be able to convince you that the Republican philosophy will fix everything.

"Classic reply from a stoner..."

Very articulate. So because I support the legalization of marijuana, that makes me a stoner? I fully support the right to hunt, but yet I never, ever hunt (I do fish, but I am a catch and release kind of guy), but by your reasoning I guess I am a hunter. I support gay rights, so I guess that makes me a homosexual also.

"This Tuesdays election may be the start of the last best chance to restore and save The United States of America,.... and maybe Wakeboarding as well (;-"

I simply stated what geez was ranting about in his first post. His contention was that the Democrats are taking us to the toilet, so to speak, so now the GOP has control of the house, and by geez's reasoning, the country should be great now.

Originally Posted by wake77

"Classic reply from a stoner..."

Very articulate. So because I support the legalization of marijuana, that makes me a stoner? I fully support the right to hunt, but yet I never, ever hunt (I do fish, but I am a catch and release kind of guy), but by your reasoning I guess I am a hunter. I support gay rights, so I guess that makes me a homosexual also.

"This Tuesdays election may be the start of the last best chance to restore and save The United States of America,.... and maybe Wakeboarding as well (;-"

I simply stated what geez was ranting about in his first post. His contention was that the Democrats are taking us to the toilet, so to speak, so now the GOP has control of the house, and by geez's reasoning, the country should be great now.

No, your intellectual dishonesty in your arguments and positions make you a stoner...

It is not that republicans are going to just magically fix things. It is just their policies are better suited for spreading the wealth as you say. The democrats have two or three main objectives that have completely thrown us off track.

1) They are rampant internationalists now. They are for spreading the wealth to other countries through the UN. They constantly push for a world tax on America. That is what Cap and Trade is about. A phony scheme to get Americans to pay more to the world community. If you listen most of the democrats and I think I even heard Obama say this, they say they are children of the world and they say they want to spread the wealth from the richest down to the poorest. Hate to tell you, but America is the richest and they are trying to spread your wealth to the world. Don't be mad, they are doing exactly what they told you they are going to do and people don't like it.

2) Democrats are constantly into class and racial warfare. They constantly try and divide the people. Hate to tell you but there is always going to be rich people. Whether you are trading chickens and goats, there is always going to be someone who has more. Democrats always speak of distributing the wealth (class warfare). You can not spread the wealth by telling the people who worked the hardest to just give it away. That complete lacks understanding of the human condition. That is why republicans get so pissed off at democrats. What I see are many large groups of the population who want to screw off most of their life and then finally realize they have nothing. They then want handouts. All the handouts do is make a lazy society. A lazy society will fail. To think otherwise is to completely ignore history.

Prime example is California. Times have been very good for the people. The free money give away of the 90's followed up by free money from over inflated home prices. Most of this was started when a few progressive companies started giving stock options in a loop hole to the employees. The businesses did not have to count the money toward there losses if I recall. It put out a ton of money into the market. Prices inflated especially in housing. With lending requirements reduced to help the poor people nationally, people took advantage of the cash in there homes and the prices of everything went up some more. You want something as an example. Wakeboard boats. I figured at the end of the internet bubble they prices would fall. They went up another $10,000 plus in just a year or two due to the housing money on the market. In the mean time, all the little service industries are booming and people are making fast money. The kids are not going to college because they can just to build some houses or work in real estate or something else. Now you have illegals back filling the low paying jobs plus filling the higher paying construction jobs and the middle class people are screwed. You have a whole generation who did not go to college (of course college prices went through the roof too) or they went for art classes and they have been displaced in the lower waged jobs by illegals. They now have nothing.

During that time, The government in california moved toward leftist social agenda instead of trying to keep the state healthy business wise. Passing more and more environmental regulations, taxes and so on. Now companies do not want to move here. The state is pretty much heading down and the people in the middle are being pinched bad.

You want to see where the rest of the country is heading. Look at LA and Oakland. Both democrat ran cities in a state that has very liberal law to support them. They have the greatest wealth and potential for jobs within minutes away but they are been so brain washed from the liberalism for so long that they can not and will not pull themselves up. That is what liberalism does. It is so bad that many of the democrats here (now mainly progressive democrats) actually believe that any other country but the US should be on top in the world. They think we are vile knuckle draggers that pollute the earth and cause all wars. That is why I can't stand democrats in there modern form. They are not the small town midwest democrats who's ideas of spreading the wealth is making a even playing field for the people so they too can start a business and work outrageous overtime to create their slice of the pie. They truly think America is vile and the world would be a better place without us in it. That is where the rest of America is heading and you saw just a very small slice when Nancy Pelosi was moved into power and when we voted in Obama. Welcome of progressive America.

I used to enjoy reading these, as it always seems good to get others' perspectives no matter what my opinion was. The person's education, profession, and any other trait really didn't matter, as they were a person with any knowledge and experience, that likely differed from mine. It now seems that a few of you just sit here and bash each other all day long, scaring anyone who may want to chime in that may not agree with you by degrading their intelligence and finding holes in their comments. It is now so bad, that your arguments, accusations and insults cross threads, and the same select group continue to argue with one another over similar topics. This has nothing to do with the topic, and I have nothing to add to the conversation, but in a few months when it's just the few of you frequenting the Non-Wake area, especially regarding political type topics, you'll have a good idea as to why.

Actually, if people don't start understanding economics and how to generate income there won't be much of a wakeboarding scene (especially in California). Wake boarding is kind of one of those luxury item type of sports. Then throw in the environmentalists trying to close every other lake to boaters in California. Just think when the boating scene has dried up and there won't be anyone around to oppose these people?

@Jeremy

Well geez, the Repubs took back over control of the House, so our country should be hunky dory in the next few months and wakeboarding is safe once again.

I think you and I both know that it's not quite like that at all.

@Someone Else
Thought provoking words, well said and alot of truth in what you say.
People need to wake up to what is happening around them, get involved, do some research and get better informed about what is going on in this country.

@John Anderson
You make some very good points John.
John, I agree with your assessment about sending our wealth overseas and our current trade deficit around the world.
There is no doubt that that is also a very serious issue but our deficit spending is as well.
The combination of these two issues, just increases the urgency to get our country back on track fiscally.
We just don't manufacture goods in the U.S. like we used to that's for sure.
I might take exception to the 5 trillion dollar price tag of the two wars though, it's probably closer to 1 trillion
(but even that is way too much money so it's probably academic).
Our trade imbalance and deficit spending dwarfs the money spent in Iraq in Afghanistan but again that probably does not take anything away from your main point.

Most Republicans "generally" come closer to the traditional values that made our country great but by no means are they our only answer.

Plenty of Republicans lost in the primaries running up to this years election and I have voted against a number of Republicans that I thought were not fiscally conservative at the local and federal level. A number of traditional Republicans were upset by that turn of events but not me.

We need some fiscal sanity from "all these politicians" regardless of their party.

Originally Posted by deltahoosier

Democrats are constantly into class and racial warfare. They constantly try and divide the people. ... Democrats always speak of distributing the wealth (class warfare)... They then want handouts.

Originally Posted by deltahoosier

(Democrats think Americans are) " vile knuckle draggers that pollute the earth and cause all wars...They truly think America is vile and the world would be a better place without us in it..."

Nice, you say Democrats stirr class and racial warefare, and then you proceed to do exactly that!!

Originally Posted by deltahoosier

California moved toward leftist social agenda instead of trying to keep the state healthy business wise. Passing more and more environmental regulations, taxes and so on. Now companies do not want to move here. The state is pretty much heading down and the people in the middle are being pinched bad.

Are you sure about that? Last time I checked, California's economy is #1 in the nation, and doesn't appear to be giving up its spot any time soon. California is THE place to do business, look at how many Fortune 500 companies do business here! There are lots of wealthy folks here. The middle class isn't being pinched bad, that pinch is called living within your means. It's hard to sympathize with somebody feeling the pinch when they live in a mansion!

Originally Posted by deltahoosier

You want to see where the rest of the country is heading. Look at LA and Oakland. Both democrat ran cities in a state that has very liberal law to support them. They have the greatest wealth and potential for jobs within minutes away but they are been so brain washed from the liberalism for so long that they can not and will not pull themselves up. That is what liberalism does.

There is way more Oakland besides the sensational stuff that makes it on TV? Oakland probably has the most laissez-faire attitude when it comes to business and is one of the best places in the region for start-ups and entrepreneurs. Many people I know from Oakland is self-employed in one way or another. The do-it-yourself mantra seems to be the only thing that works well in Oakland, and it's not the place to be waiting around for handouts because they ain't coming!

No Colin,

I am not stirring class warfare. I am telling you what I read every day in progressive websites and California is the defacto home of the progressives. The progressives in this country and especially in California and even more located in the Bay Area do think that people in fly over country are knuckle draggers and hold them in great contempt. Try researching what these people say on a daily basis. If you want a hero of theirs on TV, watch Keith Oberman on MSNBC. You live so close to the stink you just don't notice the smell. Obama and Pelosi are examples of progressives. They are progressives, they just know that it does not play well in America so they are careful. Progressives are actually mad at Obama because they want single payer healthcare not the current system they voted in.

Let me ask you this. Who's montra is it that we need to tax the rich? Who's montra is it that we need tax cuts across the board? Which one is classism?

Another one: Which party likes to say the other is racist for wanting to stop illegal immigration? Is that playing the race card? Which party likes to say the other is racist?

Don't be mad at me, these are the people that were vote to leadership in the democrat party. If you don't want your party to be lumped in with this, then get rid of them.

On California being #1 economy, that may be true but what is the state unemployment? Something like 17%? What is it that we produce? Name the major manufacturers in the state? What this state has is a few corporate farmers that are getting stinking rich from cheap illegal labor, collecting water subsudies all while the rest of use have to somehow pick up what so far is currently over $1000 per person directly per year for that labor. So, that is one area we produce. The other is software which really is not traditional manufacturing and I attribute a lot of the fake money give away that helped destroy the economy in the first place. Sure, it pores a ton of money into the state but as you are starting to get aware of, the jobs are heading to India. You are talking intellectual property not physical hardware. Then there is the fake housing market. How many middle class people were made building houses? The over heating their caused a glut of people and now they are all going to pay for a while.

Not sure what the mansion thing is about except that is a progressive talking point. They refer to them as McMansions. It is not so much a living inside your means thing as it is a where do you have to live thing. The same house one hill over can be $200 to $300 thousand more. A small old run down house in Castro Valley can cost way more than a giant new house in Tracy. So, I buy into the point of living in your means, but, you quickly can be forced out of your means. Housing prices going through the roof (which means rent too), car taxes doubling in one year, now all these people are going to be forced to pay $200 or $300 or more for health insurance soon, then you get prices of everything rising with they up the minimum wage, or pass things like clean air act things against diesel trucks (even though livermore lab found that the study they used actually lied about the implact by 400%). Those are just the little things that kill the middle class.

If I hear you correctly, you say that California is the #1 economy in the country. I can give you that. You also say that many people own small businesses in Oakland. I can give you that. Then my next question is why such a chilled out money making machine like Oakland have so many of it's citizens perpetually unemployed and waiting for handouts? Why, if the city and state are so good and rich, are there huge gang issues and nearly unheard of violence? Can't be the money so what is it? Is it the social construct of the city? What social construct is the city? Shall I answer or do we already know who these people are and the way they think?

@Collin P

Last time I checked, California's economy is #1 in the nation

Don't quite understand why you are saying that when they are in so much financial trouble.
According to the Debt Affordability Report filed by California's state treasurer (BILL LOCKYER),
California is approximately $40-68 Billion dollars in debt. (give or take a view billion here or there I suppose)

Colin you are right about a couple of things.
1.Our "National debt" is somewhere in the neighborhood of $13.7 trillion dollars.
2. And as you say our GDP (as of today) is about $14.6 trillion.

What you failed to mention was our total U.S. debt, which is in the ballpark of about $54.7 trillion and growing.

Factually speaking, In the next 20 minutes or so it will have climbed another $20 million.

We just are not keeping up with our debt problem Collin it continues to grow each and every second while stand idly by arguing about it instead of trying to do something to fix it.

The Democrats have pretty much purged the moderates from their ranks in this last election.
What is left seem to be mostly the hard line Marxist/Socialist thinkers.

Raising taxes and spending into oblivion while handing out Government freebies as far as the eye can see
has been tried before, ie,.. with the Democrat's President LBJ and his policies with "the war on poverty" during the 60s.

It has never worked and never ever will work.

17% unemployment, debt out the wazoo, and yet California will continue to be the number one economy in the nation. I guess we can live with high unemployment and all that debt. It appears the biggest problem they have besides crime is the water shortage thing, which could put an end to wakeboarding(that sucks). Even without cali, the USA is the most productive country in the world, this will not change for a few decades and it seams we will always be the biggest producer of manufactured goods! This chart compares our states GDP with other nations around the word.

@ Joe Schmoe:

17% unemployment, debt out the wazoo, and yet California will continue to be the number one economy in the nation.

The assessment you make is incredibly false and flawed.
Your analogy is much like a bunch of dudes in a terminal cancer ward all dying from the cancer called “debt” arguing about who is in the best shape.

The “Belgium” dude says I have 1 week to live, the Norway dude says I have 2 weeks to live, the Ireland dude says I have 3 weeks to live.

Then the American says “I AM NUMBER 1 IN THE WORLD”, "Yeah baby I am the best",..because I have a whole month to live and that is much longer than any of you “pukes” !

Problem is they all are going to die in the very near future because of their massive cancer of debt.

California is not going to die. As a matter of fact like I suggested earlier, cal will continue to be the state with the biggest GDP in the USA. I do believe the economy grew last year and if the growth continues, there is no more Great Recession. We learn to live with high unemployment, like California or the government can just employ the unemployed by putting them in the army so they can dig a hole and fill it back up!

@ Jo Shmoe
According to you:

there is no more Great Recession. We learn to live with high unemployment, like California or the government can just employ the unemployed by putting them in the army so they can dig a hole and fill it back up!

In view of your economic assessment of California’s debt and the way to solve it makes me think that you must be absolutely brilliant!

Your knowledge of the military, specifically as it relates to the Army is astounding, considering your technical remarks regarding foxhole excavation.

The bi-partisan Debt Commission recognizes the huge and out of control US debt problem however it’s rather interesting that you do not, perhaps you know something that no one else does?

California’s and the US debt would be one thing if the money being spent belonged to the politicians spending it but this is not the case.

They both continue to spend other people’s money, money which is taken from the tax payers and they continue to spend more than is taxed.

That is why raising taxes won’t solve the debt problem because they find more and more creative ways to spend other people’s money.

"Many" of the arguments against the points I raise here are based on "political religious ideology", pure "intellectual dishonesty" and not on any real truth for the most part.

Our debt increases by tens of millions of dollars every 20 minutes, our debt gets bigger and bigger not less and according to Mr. John Anderson our trade deficit is also dragging us down as well (which it is).

We are running out of time sports fans.

The problem is very real, very dangerous for all Americans and sooner or later even the intellectually dishonest person will face the hard truth but it will be too late for them and us when that happens unless we honestly own up to the problem and work together to try and fix it.

The Obama administration will now not allow any more new drilling for oil in many areas off of our coasts while the Chinese, Vietnamese, Cubans, Mexico, Brazil, and Venezuela drill baby drill all over it!

Why is it they can drill for new oil off the coasts but not America?

Will the cost of fuel soon go up and up because of this insanity and the electric "Volt Government Motors" Obama car be the answer to all our problems?

Better gear up for that electric boat hommies, pulled by that GM Volt car, cause gas may not be available for that Malibu much longer.

Aint going to be much wakeboarding if this crap keeps up!

You still have to power those crappy electric cars and boats though... solar ain't gonna do it, so unless someone digs up Nikola Tesla and he shows us how to pull electricity out of the sky we are screwed anyhow...

Word! to Sam Ingram!

Hey Geez, why don't you try to be a "glass half-full" kinda guy every now and then.

Geezer, why don't you just start running around yelling the sky is falling, the sky is falling! I am not falling for it. I never presented a plan, I just said California is not going away and they will continue to be the state with the highest GDP in the USA. That is a fact! get over it! Has the military put up a sign that says "not hiring"? I don't think so, so theoretically, just about anyone can get a job. I picked on the army because it use to be people that flunked out of high school could just go into the army and have a good career, now you need a ged, what a joke! On the other hand if you were an intellectual person you would go into the air force, because the top recruits go there.

@ jo shmoe

Has the military put up a sign that says "not hiring"? I don't think so, so theoretically, just about anyone can get a job.

Your theory and understanding about the military is not only inaccurate but simply, absolutely wrong, as you think "anyone" can qualify physically and mentally to enlist.
Many simply cannot.

There is a maximum number of personnel that can be in all branches of the military as mandated by end strength maximums set by the United States Congress.
Your comments in this regard are completely fabricated and false.

Your comments are disrespectful towards the United States military in general and virtually without merit.

You are intelectually dishonest and foolish in almost all respects.

The politics and mind set of adolescents seems short sighted and devoid of any real wisdom.

I feel sorry for you dude.

I heard that if you make a helmet out of aluminum foil and wear it, you can prevent the government from scanning your brain waves.

oh, I'm sorry I hit a nerve geezer, yah the military has really stepped it up. It use to be you only needed a ged to get into the army, oh wait, you still can get into the army with a ged. Ya, not everyone can get into the army, you need a ged! ok, anyone under the age of 35 or so can get into the army(just have your ged handy)
Just be able to do 13 push ups. 13 push ups? hahahaha now thats funny and now I can hardly see the keyboard because my eyes are watering from laughter, but also be able to do 17 sit ups, hahahaha, I'm sorry I'm being disrespectful to the military, but come on, even if someone can't do 13 push ups, they could easily work to meet that goal.

All right everyone rase your hand high i mean high if you ride a wakeboard made right here in da good old u.s.a. ???? I
i told ray guy of action boats in h.b. You know nif you know ,,, well 20 years ago i told him wakeboarding was going to change the economics of the u.s.a. ,,,, and it did .... Boards were made right here in u.s.a.,,,,boats ,,, towers,,, now what ,,,, last chance ,,,,solar,,,,on kidding ,,,, solar it ,,last chance ,we need jops right here in da u.s.a....... Its our last invention.... Dont look now here comes $4 gas

not one a hand in the air [ooh yeah there's one --and you all know who the only one rasing there hand high is ,,,i mean my hand high,,,, the highest....] the surf ,skake and snow industy is doing any better
A.S.R. a done deal ,,,,it wasnt much but it was better than nothing.
we dont solarizze this place ,,,,china will

Originally Posted by da_moose

not one a hand in the air [ooh yeah there's one --and you all know who the only one rasing there hand high is ,,,i mean my hand high,,,, the highest....] the surf ,skake and snow industy is doing any better
A.S.R. a done deal ,,,,it wasnt much but it was better than nothing.
we dont solarizze this place ,,,,china will

Kind of like Spain did? Solar does NOT work out financially unless it is subsidized. In Spain they were running diesel generators at night to power high power lights to shine on solar cells. Why? Because the price paid for "Solar Power" was subsidized by the government and they could sell it for more than it cost to run the diesel generators...

Solar Power at Night??

is that you sam riding a board made in the U.S.A. ??????? not ,,,,,,,then you tell everyone whats up ?????? who cares how much it cost ,,the payoff is about 7-8 years ,,,,you really want to gamble on that ???? lets wait and do nothing ,i wrote the same thing 2 1/2 years ago when gas was $1.90 a gal ,,,,wooo its $3.40 today and going to $4.00 ,,,now what????

see sam your a little thinker??? its this simple ,,American solar panels,made by Americans with AMERICANS materials and hardware,installed by Americans ,,for a 100% clean energy ,,,hey would any of you Americans fall in any of those industrys' listed above???? and sam U.S.A. has something called ''DEATH VALLY'' i dont think Spain has a

We have a Shi****d of sun here, and at present it would cost around $20k worth of solar panels before you even start to pump anything back into the grid. Going to be a while before it becomes economically viable for the average joe, even with govt subsidies.

Originally Posted by da_moose

see sam your a little thinker??? its this simple ,,American solar panels,made by Americans with AMERICANS materials and hardware,installed by Americans ,,for a 100% clean energy ,,,hey would any of you Americans fall in any of those industrys' listed above???? and sam U.S.A. has something called ''DEATH VALLY'' i dont think Spain has a

Spain actually has their own desert and it keeps growing...

Current solar tech does not work financially, the cost are greater than the benefits. There are things that we could and should do though along the lines of solar, like passive solar design. Every new home in the US should incorporate passive solar design.

Then we have Tesla, we could actually try to understand what Tesla was doing instead of mocking him.

We could also take a loot at Vasile Karpen's pile and figure out how it actually works...

Or we could even start by using Smokey Yunick's engines in our cars.

once again paul your a small thinker,,,i spend a least $1000 a year on electricity ,,,, where do you come up with a $20,000 figure???? and if it did cost $20,000 a average house life these days is at least 50+ years ...so wheres the pay back ?its a no brain er,,,,if you own a house and its worth at least $500,000+ WHATS $20,000 ????

FREE ELECTRICITY

CLEAN ENERGY

AND A BOOST IN DA AMERICAN ECONOMY ,,,JOBS 100,000'S OF JOBS

PAUL WAS THAT YOU HOLDING YOUR HAND HIGH ,,,,,I RIDE A BOARD MADE IN DA U.S.A.
WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING & WHERE DO YOU LIVE? BECAUSE ALL MY FREINDS OUR HAVING A HARD TIME & THERE ARE BUSSNESS ALL OVER MY AREA "GOING OUT OF BUSSNESS" BEEN THERE 10+YEARS

Originally Posted by SamIngram

We could also take a loot at Vasile Karpen's pile and figure out how it actually works...

What's odd about that article is that even though it's a simple generator and people want it they won't build one...

“The French showed themselves very interested by this patrimonial object in the 70s, and wanted to take it. Our museum has been able to keep it, though. As time passed, the fact that the battery doesn’t stop producing energy is more and more clear, giving birth to the legend of a perpetual motion machine.”

Why do they need to take it when they can just build one?

It's funny how things that are "miraculous" seem to defy logic in more ways that just the miracle itself.

Originally Posted by da_moose

once again paul your a small thinker,,,i spend a least $1000 a year on electricity ,,,, where do you come up with a $20,000 figure???? and if it did cost $20,000 a average house life these days is at least 50+ years ...so wheres the pay back ?its a no brain er,,,,if you own a house and its worth at least $500,000+ WHATS $20,000 ????

FREE ELECTRICITY

CLEAN ENERGY

AND A BOOST IN DA AMERICAN ECONOMY ,,,JOBS 100,000'S OF JOBS

PAUL WAS THAT YOU HOLDING YOUR HAND HIGH ,,,,,I RIDE A BOARD MADE IN DA U.S.A.
WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING & WHERE DO YOU LIVE? BECAUSE ALL MY FREINDS OUR HAVING A HARD TIME & THERE ARE BUSSNESS ALL OVER MY AREA "GOING OUT OF BUSSNESS" BEEN THERE 10+YEARS

I'm not Paul, but I will answer...

The average solar panel on a house will last no where near 50 years!

A typical silicon cell Solar Module will have a life in excess of 20 years. Its electric generating capacity may degradate gradually between 0-20% over its useful life. Although solar modules are often warrantied for 20 years or more, the warranty on the overall solar energy system, inclusive of the other components, is usually 5 years or less.

As part of my job I appraise major solar lease deals. When we analyze a solar lease we perform a discounted cash flow. The DCF only goes out 20 years because that is the longest time that the actuaries that work for the solar panel manufacturers can estimate them still working while in the outdoors, even in a commercial setting. The actuaries provide data for residential which states a useful lifetime of 10 years or less.

The last two solar lease deals that I appraised had an average value of over $800 million!

On my cabin, it will take me seven years to pay off the solar panels based on my previous year's consumption rate and today's cost per kwh with a 10% increase in cost thereafter. This includes replacing the batteries with an amortization rate over 10 years. So after seven years I will get free electricity if they are still working, the problem is will they still be working then? I didn't have a choice at the cabin though, it's off the grid. The system is far from being "clean energy" at the cabin, the batteries are considered hazardous waste and production of the silicon in the panels is far from environmentally friendly.

John,
I'm glad that someone is reading some of the links I post!

Did you see that it was patented in 1922? I'm still searching for the patent. I have the gold, the platinum already... I hope to find directions to build it.

Title: Pile électrique
Patent number: FR577087 (A)
Publication date: 1924-08-30
Inventor(s): VASILESCO-KARPEN NICOLAS

I can arrange getting you a copy. You should arrange translating it from French.

Let me know how the project turns out.

Originally Posted by john211

Title: Pile électrique
Patent number: FR577087 (A)
Publication date: 1924-08-30
Inventor(s): VASILESCO-KARPEN NICOLAS

I can arrange getting you a copy. You should arrange translating it from French.

Let me know how the project turns out.

Maybe my sister can, she speaks and reads French fluently...

Thanks!

Originally Posted by john211

Title: Pile électrique
Patent number: FR577087 (A)
Publication date: 1924-08-30
Inventor(s): VASILESCO-KARPEN NICOLAS

I can arrange getting you a copy. You should arrange translating it from French.

Let me know how the project turns out.

Have you seen the forums and other websites on this?

http://forum.drumulinvingatorilor.ro...&topic=1154.15

Lots and lots of them... also a lot of references to Joe Tate's expired patent for the "Ambient Power Module"... fun stuff!

Curious ... what's the timeline for your ROI on a 1 volt battery that uses gold and platinum for electrodes?

Originally Posted by john211

Curious ... what's the timeline for your ROI on a 1 volt battery that uses gold and platinum for electrodes?

I don't have one. I actually found an entire 5 gallon bucket of GSC electrodes at Apache Reclamation & Electronics in Phoenix. They apparently didn't know what they had and sold me the entire bucket for $50 bucks. About half of them were 24K gold, about 25% were platinum, and the rest silver and lead. I think they came from Motorala but am not sure. I think it's worth a small fortune...

One man's garbage is another man's treasure...

sam right solar sucks ,there go's 100,000+ jobs ,thanks sam
now sam's going to tell us what will work????

Firstly Moose, I don't live in the U.S. and secondly, I'm not American. Within reason, I give about as much of a toss about your economy as you do ours in Australia.
I think you are putting words into Sams' mouth by saying 'solar sucks". I think what he is actually getting at, and I agree, is at the present time it is not viable to fit enough panels to supply all your needs. Like anything else, as the technology is perfected costs and efficiency will improve.
$20k is a figure that I was given by our govt. energy dept, It may not be much more than loose change to you, but to anyone setting up a home with a mortgage, that initial cost on top of our AVERAGE mortgage figure of $440 000 is in these economic times a big factor and could be the difference in getting the house or not. If you are paying off a mortgage already, hard to firstly come up with the money and then secondly say to yourself 'I'll fork out 20k now but I know in ten years it will be a lot cheaper and last longer and be more efficient'. If I had $20k just lying around I would say yeah lets look at it, but like a lot of other people I don't, that is why there are things such as paying power, water , rates etc in installments - people don't always have the cash available for one reason or another.

Our greatest generation was a nation of "doers". They went out and accomplished things, and used their currency as a mouthpiece, not a crutch. Did you know there was a time when boycots actually worked? We have become a nation of dependents. We are enslaved to our economy because we no longer DO anything for ourselves. We do what is cheapest regardless of the consequences or the message it sends. The majority of the population is completely dependent on others for basic survival.

My grandfather was an upper middle class fireman who lived in a subdivision. Not some country farmer, an average city guy. To get pork, he went to the auction, bought a pig, and made ham, bacon, and sausage out of it. Now, he had money, and would occasionally take his pig to the local slaughterhouse if he needed the work done quickly and had them prep the meats instead. The key is, he could do it himself when he wanted. In their small backyard, he had a garden, and grew all the veggies for the family. My grandmother canned veggies for the winter. I couldnt tell you the first thing about getting ham from a pig. Sausage comes from Jimmy Dean. I couldnt tell you the first thing about canning veggies, but to my grandmother and her friends it was as common as email is to us.

People drive cars every day, and Im shocked at how many people have no idea how to even do the basic maintenance themselves, nor do they have any concept of how the thing works.

Other countries are now the doers. We need to get back to being the doers, and get back into the mindset of understanding the things around us, and doing more for ourselves. The less dependent we become on each dollar we make, the easier it is to speak with our purchasing power.

Alternative energy sources are not viable because they are not the cheapest choice today. As a nation looking only for the cheapest source for everything, we will progress at the least possible rate. Starting the space program was not a cheap endeavor. On face value, it didnt even offer any fruitful discoveries or abilities initially. However, look at what that effort produced long term! It put the computer age and communications age into hyperdrive. Alternative technologies are in the same boat, they are not going to be cheap endeavors. Someone has to be the one to adopt these technologies and put their development into hyperdrive, not because they are easy, but because they are hard.

Very well said Jason.