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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Wakeboarding Discussion Archives > Archive through August 04, 2006

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Old     (lftaylor)      Join Date: Mar 2006       07-26-2006, 8:09 PM Reply   
Need your help. Our lake in Illinois is considering putting an ordinance on adding any sort of ballast to your boat. I need any sort of studies or research you guys/gals have or can find that shows boat size or better yet wake size is not a large contributor to erosion. If you have links or know where to call or contact that would be great. Thanks in advance
Old     (thane_dogg)      Join Date: Jun 2002       07-26-2006, 8:14 PM Reply   
do you have a quarter with heads on both sides?
Old    flyhigh916            07-26-2006, 8:24 PM Reply   
Are people considered ballast? What are they going to do- inspect your boat and open your ballast tanks? Itll never fly.
Old     (lftaylor)      Join Date: Mar 2006       07-26-2006, 8:30 PM Reply   
I hope it will never fly also. That was my point with people. ten people of aprox. 200 lbs equals 2000 of water. I know there are actual studies out there that prove what I mentioned above. It is easier to prove your point when you have actual research to back it up.
Old     (gary_in_ia)      Join Date: Jul 2004       07-26-2006, 8:37 PM Reply   
Live wells are ballast....so the fishing boats would be affected too.
Old     (jcv)      Join Date: Oct 2005       07-26-2006, 9:19 PM Reply   
I sincerely doubt you'll be able to find research that downplays the effects big waves have on the shoreline. There are way too many variables involved, but, no matter how you word it, wakeboard wakes certainly aren't good for the environment. The difference when you add people is you're not necessarily doing it solely to increase wake size. Also, you'd be hard-pressed to find ten 200 lbs. wakeboarders in the same place at the same time, so you'd have to have about 15 people to equal a moderate wakeboard set-up of 2000 lbs. ballast and 4 people.

We're having some complaints and calls for restrictions on our lake too. Funny thing is, the community only seems to notice our "huge, dangerous, harmful" wakes when a wakeboat passes with a bad, curse-ridden "song" playing at deafening levels. And I live in Texas, so if regulations can be passed here, they can be passed anywhere. Just a thought for the next time you insist on playing your 50 cent iPod collection next to homes and families...

(Message edited by jcv on July 26, 2006)
Old     (thane_dogg)      Join Date: Jun 2002       07-26-2006, 9:21 PM Reply   
ballast has been banned on the main lake in Canyon Lake. The patrol is pretty hip to the look of a boat that is weighted down (i.e. takes a long time to get on plane, overflow spilling out the vent, ballast bags in sight).
Old     (lhlocal)      Join Date: Jun 2003       07-27-2006, 6:32 AM Reply   
Good luck. What lake is it? We ride on Lake Holiday which banned ballast last year. If its anything like our situation, they just wanted to do what they could to limit wakeboarding. I was able to show them 3 wakeboard boats did nothing compared to the hundreds of deckboats pulling tubers and going 12mph sending off huge rollers. They relented and then said the boats were "plowing" and churning up the bottom. Our lake is between 6 and 12 ft deep. Just looking at a boat. The lowest point on a wakeboard boat fully weighted is still further from the bottom than the propeller on the lower unit of a deckboat. The bottom line is the board was made of poeple with no interest in wakeboarding, and lots of time to spend fishing. Do whatever you can to not ruffle any feathers.
Old     (wakescene)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-27-2006, 6:54 AM Reply   
Taylor M,
Before even looking for research, I'd ask myself, What is the size of the largest boat on my(your) lake? Meaning is there a restriction and what is that restriction?
Old     (lftaylor)      Join Date: Mar 2006       07-27-2006, 8:02 AM Reply   
22 feet is the restriction on Centralia Lake. They are not wanting to limit wakeboarding just control erosion. They think if they control the size of wakes, they can control or stop the erosion. Many of the banks they are talking about are literally 90 degree angles which will erode solely by wind.
Old     (agfan12)      Join Date: Mar 2004       07-27-2006, 8:08 AM Reply   
Taylor, get them to ban turning on the lake as well, because when you turn in any boat, it sends rollers twice to 3 times the size of the original wake in every direction.
Old     (dizzyg)      Join Date: May 2005       07-27-2006, 8:53 AM Reply   
ask them if they're going to ban boats that throw any kind of wake. I promise you, there are boats out there that throw a much larger wake than yours when loaded down, ask them if they're banning those. When they say "no" tell them you're just going to trade yours in for one of those, they don't know or care that the wake isn't good for boarding, just that people percieve our wakes to be the biggest, baddest out there. On our lake, we have small cabin cruisers (30-40') and cigarette boats that throw way larger wakes, ask if they're ok to drive around yet.
Old     (fox)      Join Date: Jul 2002       07-27-2006, 9:47 AM Reply   
I think the point of the bans is our boats are loaded specifically to create a large wake for our enjoyment. This is not what people in I/Os do or pontoons. It is frustrating, but someone mentioned that the interest of the property owners on the water will dictate what happens. I know on our lake, they banned wake enhancing devices, but there has been little in the way of enforcement. Also of note, at the last POA meeting, someone complained that they were not really enforcing that rule. Good luck to you. Your best bet is to try not to ruffle feathers and if you must point out anything I would say that the repeated crashing of waves more than the size of waves is the problem. This can be remmidied by using rip-rap on the shorelines or having natural vegetation such as cattails to disperse the waves.
Old     (lftaylor)      Join Date: Mar 2006       07-27-2006, 10:44 AM Reply   
really stupid ? but can you plant cattails and how? That has been my point to them that the repeated crashing of wakes from different directions are far more damaging than from one wakeboard boat.
Old     (boarditup)      Join Date: Jan 2004       07-27-2006, 10:46 AM Reply   
Any lake that has a surface area greater than about 2,000 feet in the windward direction will have about 97% of the total wave energy is from wind energy. There has been numerous studes of wave, wakes, and erosion in harbors. The hard fact is that boats provide very little of the total wave energy because of the limited time duration of boat wakes.

There is no science and hard facts supporting the assertion that some boat wakes will be vastly different than others - size is size.

If they were smart, they would regulate the rated weight (displacement) of boats. Regulating ballast is a canard and does not have a scientific basis.
Old     (fox)      Join Date: Jul 2002       07-27-2006, 10:59 AM Reply   
Karl would know about this stuff...he just built a lake for a community. Interesting fact about the wind energy. I think that supports the assertion that it is not the size of a wave assaulting the shoreline, but rather the number of waves, even those the size of a ripple.

Eric
Old     (smackus)      Join Date: Apr 2004       07-27-2006, 11:03 AM Reply   
Unfortunatly they may not need facts. Get enough supporters together and they can get the ban passed
Old     (boarditup)      Join Date: Jan 2004       07-27-2006, 11:41 AM Reply   
Yes, they may. However, you do have a case under the "equal protection" provisions of most state constitutions. They have to be able to show that your use is affecting value - otherwise, you have a good legal case.

Most communities do not have the ability to fend off even an absurd lawsuit, let alone one that has merit under equal protection.

I would recommend that you get in one person's ear and recommend that they consult an attorney regarding the ability to defend this potential regulation against legal challenge. When the community has to spend money up front for a legal opinion, the tenor quickly changes. It is not longer an easy fix for the lazy, they have to put up some cash to make it happen.

Good luck - contact me for more detailed information.
Old     (rodmcinnis)      Join Date: Sep 2002       07-27-2006, 1:53 PM Reply   
I can see Karls point about the 2000 feet of wind surface. I can also see that in many lakes there are coves that don't have 2000 feet of lake surface in the wind direction, or the effects of being in the canyon and trees disrupt the wind to minimize the wind waves.

The issue is very simple. For many years people have lived on these lakes and have built water fronts. For what ever reason, lack of wind, shelter or minimal surface area they haven't had to content with waves.

Wakeboarding has been a relatively recent addition to the equation. The wakeboarders seek out the quiet coves that has little wind generated waves. Suddenly, the waterfront landowners are experiencing wakes that are several times larger than what they would see a decade ago. They are upset that their waterfront landscaping is being erroded away.

What doesn't help the situation at all is the fact that a typical wakeboard boat goes to great length to call attention to itself. The typical slalom skier will pass through the cove quietly, while the wakeboard boat is pumping 2000 watts of music.

Face it, to the landowner us wakeboarders are just an annoying nuisance.

Many lakes already have restrictions on wake enhancing devices. This includes ballast and "wedges".

Karl said that most communities do not have the abiltiy to fend off a lawsuit. My experience has been the opposite. We are talking about lakefront homes here, not slum row. These people have money. The community could easily include a lawyer or two.

The bottom line is that they have already formed an association, and have the deeper pockets. To challenge them will require either a single wakeboarder with deep pockets or for a number of wakeboarders to organize.

Oh, and if this lake in Illinois is public rather than private, forget it! You have a chance fighting against a private organization, but the government has the deepest pockets of all!
Old     (wakespecialty)      Join Date: Feb 2005       07-27-2006, 2:17 PM Reply   
where are the pdx crew? if i remember right, lake oswego has a similar ban to the point that the malibu dealer had to put a "balast lock out" device on his boats to sell them. anybody?
Old     (lftaylor)      Join Date: Mar 2006       07-27-2006, 2:24 PM Reply   
This lake is a city lake where the city has just formed a task force to "improve" the lake. Their are aprox 75 leases the city is wanting to sell off to raise money to put into another city lake (dredging)also in Centralia. I am pretty positive there is not deep pockets. The city and task force is actually very inexperienced when it comes to this issue and have said if we can get research to prove our point they will be VERY willing to listen and take a different approach. Half of the battle will be getting printed facts or studies that show wake size has very little to do with the erosion. They need to see in black & white that if they would impose this ban that it would have very little effect on the erosion problem. As for now I feel 99% of the battle will be education rather than one persons belief.
As far as blasting 2000 watts of music there is only 5 boats on this lake and they are all families that live on the lake that do not play music excessively.

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