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Old     (sledneck55)      Join Date: Apr 2014       12-13-2015, 10:23 AM Reply   
I'm looking for some insight and review/opinions on the swell system, specifically on the 2016 Supra SA. We're getting ready to order a new boat and it's a strong contender but I haven't been able to see the swell system produce a clean starboard surf wake/wave yet and that is causing me a lot of hesitation in my decision.

Is this a common problem or just a setup issue? I've searched the Internet high and low but trying to find a video of it actually working on the transfer has proven difficult. I'm anxious to hear some input from anyone that owns a new SA or has spent time in one. Thanks for your help!
Old     (dusty2221)      Join Date: Mar 2010       12-13-2015, 10:49 AM Reply   
Pm DatTexasBoy. His 16 wake is amazing. One of the best I have ridden.
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       12-13-2015, 4:27 PM Reply   
This will give you a good starting point. These have worked well for us.

Old     (sledneck55)      Join Date: Apr 2014       12-13-2015, 4:59 PM Reply   
Thanks DTB. We'll give those a try. So since the ballast settings are different, how does the transfer work with regards to wave shape? How long do you have to ride a washed out wave before everything gets dialed in? Or are you not having that problem. Thanks for the help!
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       12-13-2015, 5:10 PM Reply   
We don't do transfers so I wouldn't know. You can run 100 in both sides and it will work. Just move people around. However I found that it's not the optimal wave.
Old     (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       12-14-2015, 8:39 AM Reply   
Devin
I just ordered a 2016 SA also and am extremely excited on it. I have not surfed the SA, but I have the SC and the SE with the same SWELL system. I do a similar set up to DTB above. I have also gone the even weight method and it will work fine, but a bit more sensitive since you are even, so might help to have a bit of extra weight on the starboard side or move a body over with the transition. Not necessary, but if you really want it clean and want to do transitions. As DTB said, we don't really transition so I elect to go to the optimal wave and use a similar set up as above. It is awesome and easy to set up.
Old     (sledneck55)      Join Date: Apr 2014       12-14-2015, 12:58 PM Reply   
Thanks Tyler,
You ordered your boat from Greg didn't you? If so, that's who we're working with as well. We love the Supra but I'm just hesitant about not seeing the transfer build a clean starboard wake. Maybe I'm worrying about something that I shouldn't be but it just seems like for what these boats are costing these days, this stuff should be dialed. I appreciate the feedback from you guys though.
On another note, did you order the 400 or 450? Sounds like the 450 may be the way to go fully loaded but I'm having a hard time getting around the upgrade cost for not a big of difference in hp/torque between the two. However, we've only driven the 450 so don't know what the real world difference is gonna be. Any thoughts on that? Thanks!
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       12-14-2015, 1:27 PM Reply   
I would go 450 unless the upcharge is just unreasonable. My 400 works, but it can struggle to plane out wakeboarding when fully loaded plus 5 or more people.
Old     (Mxguy741)      Join Date: Nov 2013       12-14-2015, 4:26 PM Reply   
How was the port side surf wave? we are also looking at possibly SA/SE and that is mostly what we ride. Not to concerned about xfers. We currently have a 2014 Malibu VLX with SG
Old     (Mxguy741)      Join Date: Nov 2013       12-14-2015, 4:27 PM Reply   
what elevation are you at DTB?
Old     (downfortheride)      Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: SLC, UT 5600'       12-14-2015, 4:38 PM Reply   
Quote:
we are also looking at possibly SA/SE and that is mostly what we ride
Here's the SE in action on Lake Powell...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on2dX10nJmg
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       12-14-2015, 5:26 PM Reply   
I'm in East Texas. Basically sea level. Port side is very clean and it seems to be longer than the starboard side. I do not ride that side but my daughter and a buddy of mine do, they love it. I'm coming from a Axis A22 and MB B52 23 surf wave is better on this one for sure.
Old     (FunkyBunch)      Join Date: Jun 2011       12-14-2015, 6:50 PM Reply   
DTB could you post some pics here or another thread of your wakeboard wake and setup?
Old     (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       12-14-2015, 10:54 PM Reply   
Devin and Mike
Yeah I did get it from Greg. Did not realize you were local. Cool!! Mine should be in next week from what I understand. Probably will not play with it until Spring though... We have always gotten a nice clean big wave on either side (port or starboard), but again we program the system to weight a bit heavier on one side just cause it makes it optimal. We don't do transitions and really don't have any one in the clan or ever even see anyone doing transitions on our stretch of the river. I think at this point transition is mostly hype, but I am sure the sport will progress there. The boat will do it for sure, but just like any other surf system boat, you will need to play with it and weighting and making sure you are even. Once we get out, I will play with it and give it a shot, but just has never been our mission.
I did go with the 400. I think it will be slightly underpowered, but for what we will be using it for it will be just fine. I could not justify the increase in cost for a tune. Like anyone else, I wanted more power, but just could not justify it. The 2016 has a launch control on it also that will help a bit by deploying the tabs down to help plane easier.
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       12-15-2015, 9:53 AM Reply   


Wakeboard wake- stock 100% (750's rear) and two people. 23.5

I will say this, you cannot put much merrit into pics. Other than seeing how clean a wake is, people can manipulate pics to make you see what they want. So here ya go. Just keep that in mind.

Last edited by DatTexasBoy; 12-15-2015 at 9:56 AM.
Old     (beg4wake)      Join Date: Aug 2012       12-15-2015, 10:39 AM Reply   
I will vouch for the SA's wakeboard wake! I put it 2nd only to the G23's and that's just barely! The new SA450 has an incredible wakeboard wake!. I myself was between the SA450 and the '16 G23...ended up with a G23 simply because I felt it had a better starboard wave and I ride goofy. The SA was still a great wave and the port wave was awesome. The G's transfer capabilities was WAY better though. Also the storage on the G is slightly better. However, the SA is a GORGEOUS boat, quite possibly the best looking boat on the water IMO. Take into account I only got to see both boats with factory ballast. Another reason the G won for me. For my skill level, I'll never have to add anything to the factory in a G and get to keep all of my storage. The SA would need a little more weight, which may not be a big deal to some. To each their own. You won't be disappointed in the SA for sure. Unless the transfer is really a big deal to you.
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       12-15-2015, 11:05 AM Reply   
^^^^^ I agree
Old     (sledneck55)      Join Date: Apr 2014       12-15-2015, 12:10 PM Reply   
I just want to say thanks for everyone's input, I really appreciate it!
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       12-15-2015, 2:05 PM Reply   
I'm not sure about the new M235 and how it performs, but the SA is the only boat on the market close to the G.
Old     (Mxguy741)      Join Date: Nov 2013       12-15-2015, 2:43 PM Reply   
What else are you looking at Devin?
Old     (dezul)      Join Date: Jul 2012       12-15-2015, 6:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DatTexasBoy View Post
I'm not sure about the new M235 and how it performs, but the SA is the only boat on the market close to the G.
How close? I was under the impression an A24 heavily weighted was the closest to a G23. I don't hear a lot about Supras even though they are out built near me. I am mainly talking about wakeboard wake. I rode the G21 surf wake and know it has more push than my A22.
Old     (sledneck55)      Join Date: Apr 2014       12-15-2015, 8:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mxguy741 View Post
What else are you looking at Devin?
We are also looking at the 2016 Malibu 23LSV. It's definitely a great boat and the surf gate works awesome but I just can't seem to get excited about it. We have and Malibu VLX right now and really like it but we put a lot of hours on our boat and it's time for a new one. I guess the Malibu just seems too similar to what we have now. That's not a bad thing but like I said earlier I just can't seem to get excited about it. The engine is loud and runs about another 600 to 700 rpms more than the SA at 11mph. However, the Malibu we drove had a 400 raptor and the supra had the 440. Maybe that's the difference, idk. Hard to believe there would be that much difference since it's the exact same motor with just a different tune. It still has the Malibu slap through rough water, the stock stereo controls aren't impressive and wouldn't be usable anyway since we will be ordering stereo delete in the Malibu. The Supra has a much better integration and control for the stereo. However, we would be removing the stock JL mx speakers and replacing them with all JL M series along with a JL 12W6 sub which is what I'm running in my boat now and it absolutely hammers along with incredible sound quality. I've already received a one line diagram from JL Audio on how the Supra is setup and it will be easy to modify where as the Malibu will not...or not without having to add a WS420 or ZLD which I'm not real excited about because there really isn't a great place to mount that in a legit way IMO.

My family loves the Supra SA but I'm really concerned about the performance of the swell system. It transfers well but like I said in my initial post, I haven't seen it build a clean starboard side wave. However, everything else is awesome. Maybe im worrying too much. Trying to decide on a new boat has been like a part time job I tell you.

In the end, I know both are great boats but I don't want to have regrets when I'm spending 6 figures on a boat. Heck, I've even started looking at the Tige RZX. My kids started competing in the INT events last year wakeboarding, wake skating and surfing so i need a boat that will do all of those well, not just surf. So I'm just trying to get all the info, insight, opinions etc that I can and it's nice to have a forum like this available to get that. So with all that, if anyone has any advice, been there done that experience, let 'r rip. Thanks!
Old     (Mxguy741)      Join Date: Nov 2013       12-15-2015, 9:24 PM Reply   
We are in a similar situation. We have a 2014 vlx that we currently have and love but want something a little bigger, and really want a pickle fork. Sa/se, a24, f22/f24 are all in the equation. Tough to decide. Where do you ride? We are mostly on the willamette
Old     (sledneck55)      Join Date: Apr 2014       12-15-2015, 10:34 PM Reply   
Mxguy,
We're from Longview and mostly ride on the Columbia.

It's definitely tough. I don't like the boats that have a big pickle front end but definitely liking the pickle style. The Supra SA seems to be a great setup and my kids love the bow. I really like the ballast size in the bow.

We're gonna check out a new MXZ with Mason on Friday so we'll see how that goes. Maybe that will be the perfect combo. But I'll still have to figure out the stereo control if we go with a Malibu. These are the color combos we like for each boat...


Or this for the Supra...
Old     (sledneck55)      Join Date: Apr 2014       12-15-2015, 10:49 PM Reply   
Well that didn't work for the pictures. I'll try again. We're going with black blue and silver metal flake. These are pictures of my computer screen so not the greatest color representation but pretty close.
Attached Images
  
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       12-16-2015, 5:32 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dezul View Post
How close? I was under the impression an A24 heavily weighted was the closest to a G23. I don't hear a lot about Supras even though they are out built near me. I am mainly talking about wakeboard wake. I rode the G21 surf wake and know it has more push than my A22.

D, I've ridden both A24 and now I have a SA. The SA has the Same smooth transfer as the A24 but is a little wider wake and the pop is insane. The A24 is good but it won't launch you like the SA will. When you actually ride the SA fully loaded you can see the size difference in the wakes.

The A24 I rode had 900 Sumo's in it and we had an extra sack in the floor. My SA has 750's.

If you have a chance to ride them all and I have, it was an easy choice for me.
Old     (Tims)      Join Date: Feb 2014       12-16-2015, 6:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by sledneck55 View Post
We are also looking at the 2016 Malibu 23LSV. It's definitely a great boat and the surf gate works awesome but I just can't seem to get excited about it. We have and Malibu VLX right now and really like it but we put a lot of hours on our boat and it's time for a new one. I guess the Malibu just seems too similar to what we have now. That's not a bad thing but like I said earlier I just can't seem to get excited about it. The engine is loud and runs about another 600 to 700 rpms more than the SA at 11mph. However, the Malibu we drove had a 400 raptor and the supra had the 440. Maybe that's the difference, idk. Hard to believe there would be that much difference since it's the exact same motor with just a different tune. It still has the Malibu slap through rough water, the stock stereo controls aren't impressive and wouldn't be usable anyway since we will be ordering stereo delete in the Malibu. The Supra has a much better integration and control for the stereo. However, we would be removing the stock JL mx speakers and replacing them with all JL M series along with a JL 12W6 sub which is what I'm running in my boat now and it absolutely hammers along with incredible sound quality. I've already received a one line diagram from JL Audio on how the Supra is setup and it will be easy to modify where as the Malibu will not...or not without having to add a WS420 or ZLD which I'm not real excited about because there really isn't a great place to mount that in a legit way IMO.

My family loves the Supra SA but I'm really concerned about the performance of the swell system. It transfers well but like I said in my initial post, I haven't seen it build a clean starboard side wave. However, everything else is awesome. Maybe im worrying too much. Trying to decide on a new boat has been like a part time job I tell you.

In the end, I know both are great boats but I don't want to have regrets when I'm spending 6 figures on a boat. Heck, I've even started looking at the Tige RZX. My kids started competing in the INT events last year wakeboarding, wake skating and surfing so i need a boat that will do all of those well, not just surf. So I'm just trying to get all the info, insight, opinions etc that I can and it's nice to have a forum like this available to get that. So with all that, if anyone has any advice, been there done that experience, let 'r rip. Thanks!

I rode behind the new SA all summer and can say for sure that starboard wave is a little more difficult to dial in than say a Malibu. However, it just takes a little moving around of weight and you are good. The updated swell system works great.

The new SA is in a different class than the 23LSV in terms of size and function and the wakeboard wake is up there with the G. And if you compare it to a $200K M235, it is a steal.
Old     (beg4wake)      Join Date: Aug 2012       12-16-2015, 7:04 AM Reply   
^^^^^ I agree with this! Out of the 2 boats you posted, I would 100% go with the SA. Love the color combos as well! Close to what I did on my G! Just a question though, if you're pricing out new boats, why aren't you looking at the G? Is it just a little past the budget? Or do you not like the looks? Or just no dealer close to you? Just asking because by what you have described, the G would be perfect for you. Def not trying to undersell the Supra though! It's a great boat! And good choice on the JL equipment. I'm putting the new JL M-series 8.8 cans on the tower in my boat...and IMO, they are almost just as good as the Wetsounds Rev10's but smaller and offer more head room. As others have stated, you can and will get that starboard side to clean up, even with doing transfers, it will just take a little more effort in the SA in that you'll have to move a little weight around. But from the sounds of it, if it is mostly just you and your kids in the boat, and you all are out practicing for competitions, that probably wouldn't be that big of a deal! Good luck with your purchase either way!
Old     (sledneck55)      Join Date: Apr 2014       12-16-2015, 9:10 AM Reply   
Well, it's funny that you say something about the G. Our salesman sent us an email on a leftover 2015 G21 yesterday and now my wife is getting interested in those. And the plot thickens...

Actually spent quite a bit of time last night researching and watching G videos, etc. We looked at them at the boat show last year but other than that I've never been in one on the water but I'd bet the farm that a water demo is just a formality on the G's. The price of the '15 G21 is in the same ball park as what we're looking at but I don't know if I want to stay at the 21' range as we were really wanting to go to a 23 footer. Plus, I don't know if I want to step up to the G23 $$$. There's no question they're unbelievable boats and I'd love to have one and you're right, I think it would be exactly what we're looking for. I guess we need to explore that option as well.

Thankfully, we have a great dealership locally, Active Watersports, that sells everything we're looking at. I can't say enough about how awesome both of our salesman Mason and Greg have been for us. If anyone is looking for a boat, I HIGHLY recommend giving them a call. We're heading to Portland on Friday to so we'll see how things go. Thanks for the feedback!
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       12-16-2015, 9:35 AM Reply   
There are lots of other advantages to the G23 over the G21 besides the size as well.....

IMO the G23 excels slightly for wakeboarding, and excels by quite a margin for surfing.

Can't say anything bad about the G21 though. Surfing with a G21 also involves a slight list for a drastically better wave. I don't find that with the new G23. A slight list might dial the new G23 wave a little, but its not a big difference from even weight.

I have spent quite a bit of time behind a new SA late this summer. Dynamite boat, and definitely glad it doesn't bow dip like crazy like the previous SA. The new one is high and dry. Honestly, I wouldn't put the wakeboard wake up in a comparison with a G, but it was a dealer demo with only the stock ballast and bags. Although, to be fair, I don't ride a G with more than stock weight either. That said, general shape and cleanliness of the wake was exceptional. It just didn't have the size. Surf wave was awesome, but did require a slight offset in ballast to the surf side. Evenly weighted, it had a good port wave, but the starboard wave was very washy. Shifting only 2 people cleared that right up though.

Last edited by Fixable; 12-16-2015 at 9:38 AM.
Old     (dusty2221)      Join Date: Mar 2010       12-16-2015, 12:09 PM Reply   
Have you considered the SE? Not sure why it isn't introduced more in conversation when comparing wakes.
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       12-16-2015, 12:34 PM Reply   
Dusty, how does it compare to mine. You've ridden both?
Old     (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       12-16-2015, 2:13 PM Reply   
I've heard the SA has a cleaner wake but since the SE is so huge that you can load it more. If it means anything, the press release for the PWT next year said the SA will be towing it. I think that says something
Old     (dezul)      Join Date: Jul 2012       12-16-2015, 6:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DatTexasBoy View Post
D, I've ridden both A24 and now I have a SA. The SA has the Same smooth transfer as the A24 but is a little wider wake and the pop is insane. The A24 is good but it won't launch you like the SA will. When you actually ride the SA fully loaded you can see the size difference in the wakes.

The A24 I rode had 900 Sumo's in it and we had an extra sack in the floor. My SA has 750's.

If you have a chance to ride them all and I have, it was an easy choice for me.
Good to know. I rode a 2015 Mojo and it sounds very similar to how you describe the SA. We still haven't loaded the Mojo extremely heavy yet but the wake is big with long transitions. It was difficult to tell the width of the wake since the tower tie point is so far forward. I rode at 70' and 75', the long transition took some getting use to so I am still feeling out the wake. I know a guy that works at the local Supra dealership, I will see if I can swing a pull in the spring.
Old     (dusty2221)      Join Date: Mar 2010       12-16-2015, 7:06 PM Reply   
From what I have been told the Mojo wake shouldn't be in the same conversation as the SA/SE/G wakes. Never ridden the G or Mojo, so I guess that means nothing
Old     (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       12-17-2015, 9:53 PM Reply   
Devin
If the wave is anything like the SE or the SC in terms of wave, trust me when I say you will get the starboard wake cleaned up. Just takes some dialing for what you like and then you save it in the system and it does it all the time. I will be in the same boat once mine gets in and plan on spending some time tweeking it a bit, but I am sure I will end up setting up similar to my SC and similar to what DTB posted above.
Good luck. Does not sound like you have a bad problem. 3 great boats. Go with your gut to make sure you are happy with it down the road. You already got over the biggest hurdle of having a good dealer and support. AWS is awesome. You better hurry up and get that order in or you are going to miss the Spring sessions....

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