Ballast Filling/Emptying from dock pump?

We're fortunate enough to have a large boathouse & lift for our MC 205V. My son and I are just wakeboarding newbies, but I'm sure we'll want ballast. Instead of doing all the boat piping for bags, has anyone used an external pump (think larger AC pump) for ballast. It would be handy for pressure washing and other dock activities as well. Filling with a hose should be easy, but I'm not sure about emptying. Priming a real pump 20' away probably wouldn't work well. We've got a hoist/lift, but I doubt it could lift the boat & full ballast for gravity emptying.

Does anyone fill/empty ballast from a dock pump?

I have wondered why you dont hear about any setups like this. If I didnt have buillt in ballast and had my boat on a dock where I had electricity this would be exactly what I would do. Generally ac pumps will flow faster. Of course Ideally you would want a reversibe pump, so you can just have the one end of the hose you attach to the bags.

Try a simple $75 sump pump from Home Depot. It works great!

Filling the bags would be easy. To drain the bags, drive the boat on the lift, then just lift it a few inches, pull the center plug and then have hoses w/ valves from the bottom of the back bags running into the bilge. You could let the front bag drain into the locker. The bags are above the water line and would drain. As they get close to empty just raise the boat. It might take a while to empty thru the center hole.

BTW, that is one pretty 205V.

(Message edited by rich_g on October 07, 2006)

Thanks Rich, we wanted a simple/classic look.

I guess I'll be checking out pumps at the home improvement store. It would be great if they had something reversible with a decent flow rate, but I think I need to start dreaming about a piping/valve arrangement where I could flip two valves and just feed the pump the other way. I'm sure an external pump would hate to run dry, so I'd have to be diligent or maybe design an extra feed line from the lake.

For a gravity drain, wouldn't I have to get to the rear plug? Not too easy from the top of the platform and would have to have a spare or two just in case.

Charlie

I was thinking about the center drain plug which should be accessible from the round plastic lid in the floor panel; at least it is on my 99.

The front locker will drain into the center bilge area. If you had hoses from the rear bags with valves on the hose ends you could just gravity drain them into the bilge. Of course the bilge pump will be getting a workout too.

Gotcha, I wonder if the rear bags draining wide open would outflow the bilge pumps?

I just found this pump: http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_7736_7736 Fill time would be only be 5-10 minutes and it includes hose adapters.

just beef up your existing bilge pump. 2000 gph would be ideal. (may need a larger line and thru hull fitting to fully utilize the capacity) or 1100 would do the job. like rich said, drain into the bilge and pump out. good idea on the fill side, BTW

the reason we would not try this , is that once the ballast was full, the boat would have settled far down enough in the water to make it impossible to remove from the lift. And pier offers no ideal tie down spot to park the boat where I would just leave it.

So just make sure your lift is deep enough to cover the draft of the boat once the tanks/sacs are full.

Beefed up bilge pump makes good sense. We lower the lift several feet below the boat so no clearance issues, although a good thing to remember. Our lake level doesn't fluctuate much so we're pretty safe. The lift is would be for the front bag, we'd just have to test out how it would cradle if only the front was filled.

why are you filling on the lift? and what does the lift have to do with the front bag?

the whole put it on the lift and drain out the bottom of the boat is kinda silly. drain all sacs into the bilge. then use the bilge pump to get the water out. no lift; no drain plug. Ballast systems have been designed using the bilge pump to get the water out of the boat. just another opinion

to rephrase the first part of my post: the lift has nothing to do with the ballast system -- whether filling or draining or otherwise. you need a way to drain the ballast without the use of gravity and your drain plug.

(Message edited by denverd1 on October 09, 2006)

The gravity drain idea was just to minimize costs to keep from having another on-boat pump for emptying. In practical use your right that using the center drain plug would work, but probably be extra effort if the rear is using the bilge pump anyway. The bilge pump would have to have plenty of capacity to make sure the bags emptying doesn't seriously out-run it (assuming the drain valves are wide open).

It's all just a brainstorm at this point, but it does give me enough to ballpark costs and think through the logistics. Thanks guys!

How fast do you guys fill your ballast with on-board pumps?

Why not just pick up some pop bags (lead). When you return to the dock take them out of the boat and set them on the dock before hoisting. They take up a ton less space and are quick and easy to load.

Otherwise, I probably wouldn't waste my time trying to rig something like that up. You can get a ballast pump for $75ish and that way you can carry it with you in case you ever wanted to drain the sacs while you're out on the water.

The only thing to be aware of is you don't want to flood the bilge to the point where the v-drive seals are under water, or fill the bilge area and get the carpeted areas all wet.

The simplicity of this method is the attraction. You don't have to install anything or drill a bunch of thru-hulls. I think you could even do it where you only fill one fitting that goes into the front bag, then an overflow tube goes to the back bags. You could have one of the drain hoses from the back bags sticking out over the side as a vent. You could turn it on and forget it instead of babysitting a bunch of fat sacs.

I'm almost 40, my Dad (driver) is over 60 and my son is only 8. The idea of lifting all the bags of lead over and over again just isn't appealing. Boat space is not an issue but storage space for lead could be, we spend most of our time at the boathouse and rarely go out for very long.

I guess I'm just too chicken to think about drilling a hole in the hull for filling. We have easy access to AC for a faster fill method.

Charlie,

I have put together 4 ballast systems in two boats, and I am still not completely happy with what I have. I ski, board, surf, and barefoot, so my ballast pumps get used quite heavily. I cannot imagine not being able to fine tune my boat by adding or removing ballast for different riders.

There used to be a company a ballast system using aerator pumps fed off a 1.5" manifold. This is where I am probably heading with my next system. My first systems used the reversible impeller pumps but I won't use them again. They are just too slow, noisy, and power hogs.

i have a 3 bag aerator system with four pumps. Fill and drain: 5 min each. est 1500 lbs. fill: 1.5" thru hull manifold

(Message edited by denverd1 on October 10, 2006)

Save yourself the trouble.... If you don't like the idea of lead, then why not just pick up a ballast pump. You'll be filled and ready in around 15 minutes. Usually less time than it takes for a rider to get ready and get to your ride spot.

setting up the drain system without drilling any holes could work. just run hoses w/ valves to a pump and wire in. fill at the dock, drain when you want. you should reconsider drilling holes, tho. its fun! and what if you ever take your boat on a trip. you'll be used to ballast, but how do you fill?

Charlie:

You will be much happier with a ballast system built into the boat instead of relying on dock power.

Filling at the dock is great if all the riders want the ballast. Does your son want a fully ballasted boat? How about your dad? Wife? Son's friends?

On my boat I frequently change the ballast.

I might empty one side to balance the boat a bit instead of possibly insulting a heavy friend by asking everyone else in the boat to sit on the other side....

If some of the crew decide to ride up front I might empty the bow tank.

If I end up with a full load I might decide to half empty all the tanks.

When the beginners ride I will empty the tanks.

I would hate to have to come back to the dock to change ballast between each rider.

Ok, Ok, you guys make a lot of sense! I'm sure I'll end up drilling eventually and plumbing all the lines won't be significantly different with both fill and empty.

For now it's just me and my son and even though he is just starting out, he likes the idea of ballast and a cleaner wake. As much as I tweak most toys in my life, I'm sure the ballast will be no different. For less than $100 to have a pressure washer water source on the dock we'll probably put a pump in anyway that will be good for experimentation until the co-owners (my parents) buy in to the through hull idea.

I still want to be quick to fill because we ride right out of our cove and 15 minutes can mean the difference between first or third boat. There are some other old guys like myself that would rather get up early than ride during the day. First water is usually perfectly still glass and is heavenly. I started riding finless at the end of the summer and surface slides were almost sensual.

Thanks guys, you've helped me think through a lot! Charlie