Articles
   
       
Pics/Video
       
Wake 101
   
       
       
Shop
Search
 
 
 
 
 
Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
WakeWorld Home
Email Password
Go Back   WakeWorld > Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles

Share 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old     (Cheerio3638)      Join Date: Oct 2015       10-18-2015, 11:27 AM Reply   
Hi I'm looking at getting into the wake boarding scene so i want a boat thats reasonable price and good for the whole family. Ive recently came a cross a 2004 regal session walk through transom for 18,500. Has about 450 hours on it. Just wondering if these are good boats, and basically any info i can get on them. Also is there any better boats for the price?
Old     (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       10-18-2015, 3:27 PM Reply   
The Session boats were only made a couple years. Regal built them to get into the growing wakeboat market. Regal builds very good boats and I'm sure the Session are well built. They were very heavy compared to the other boats on the market and never were very popular. When the boat market collapsed Session was one of the first to go.
The price is just what you could get a similar sized boat for in like condition. However, it is not a known brand and it should be at a 10-20% discount as you will find it harder to sell, and the current owners will have the same problem. 450 hours is not a problem if the maintenance was done annually. Test drive it,if if you can, and see if you like it and if the wake has a shape you will want. For Canada that would seem to be a reasonable price but if they are selling it now I'm sure they will negotiate some.
Good luck.
Old    BamaMojo            10-19-2015, 5:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheerio3638 View Post
Hi I'm looking at getting into the wake boarding scene so i want a boat thats reasonable price and good for the whole family. Ive recently came a cross a 2004 regal session walk through transom for 18,500. Has about 450 hours on it. Just wondering if these are good boats, and basically any info i can get on them. Also is there any better boats for the price?

Axis and Moomba are great value brands that are in high demand and easy to resale.
Old     (Redheadd)      Join Date: Apr 2014       10-19-2015, 8:00 AM Reply   
Garbage
Old     (RAMZAK)      Join Date: Aug 2014       10-19-2015, 2:39 PM Reply   
Is that boat a stern drive?

If so, you will never be able to get the speed control, wake shape, or on plane(hole shot) of a V-drive/Direct-drive.

Its more for cruising and pulling tubes if you ask me.
Old     (RAMZAK)      Join Date: Aug 2014       10-19-2015, 2:42 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMZAK View Post
Is that boat a stern drive?

If so, you will never be able to get the speed control, wake shape, or on plane(hole shot) of a V-drive/Direct-drive.

Its more for cruising and pulling tubes if you ask me.

Scratch that.

Just read up on the boat. Seems like it is a V-drive. But because of the undesirability of the boat, I would not pay 1/2 that amount.
Old     (RAMZAK)      Join Date: Aug 2014       10-19-2015, 2:53 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMZAK View Post
Is that boat a stern drive?

If so, you will never be able to get the speed control, wake shape, or on plane(hole shot) of a V-drive/Direct-drive.

Its more for cruising and pulling tubes if you ask me.

Scratch that.

Just read up on the boat. Seems like it is a V-drive. But because of the undesirability of the boat, I would not pay 1/2 that amount.
Old     (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-19-2015, 9:31 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMZAK View Post
Scratch that.

Just read up on the boat. Seems like it is a V-drive. But because of the undesirability of the boat, I would not pay 1/2 that amount.
You wouldn't pay $9,250 for a usable v-drive wakeboat?

Honestly, this site boarders on worthless at this point...

To the original poster, if you can knock a few bucks off the asking price and its in good shape, go for it. They were not bad from a quality standpoint, not great but not bad. If you look the design, they had a few features currently found on new tow boats well before they were popular. (walk thru transom, rear seating, etc)

Another thing to consider, most (possibly all) came with Mercruiser power. While they do not hold a candle to PCM/Indmar/Illmor for reliability, it is easier to find dealerships than can do service and have parts in stock. Something to consider if you boat in a more rural area.
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       10-20-2015, 4:43 AM Reply   
Id be curious to learn more about the unreliable GM engines with a Merc label, compared to the same reliable GM engines labeled by the others? I had an 04 Session in last week. Put it on the fake-a-lake and its Merc fired right up and purred like a kitten.

The helm systems we see in wake boats are flip phones compared to the helm system what Merc does on big boats. Merc has actually developed its own engines, so it cam move away from the soon to run dry GM marine source.
Old     (cowwboy)      Join Date: Jul 2008       10-20-2015, 5:18 AM Reply   
It cracks me up when people dog merc's.
They are the exact same long block.
Only difference is the accessories and tunes.
To be honest I would trust merc over some of the others just knowing their manufacturing procces control.
The company I work for has picked up quite a few people that used to work for merc in stillwater when they closed that facility.
Hell, even GM chose to use them to manufacture the rare and bad ass LT-5.
Old     (That_Guy)      Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Central Ohio       10-20-2015, 6:11 AM Reply   
I don't see anything wrong with it, especially for someone just getting into the sport. That's probably $10-15k less than a comparable year/hours Malibu/Mastercraft/Nautique, etc, and that price difference will allow you to fix anything/set it up how you like for less altogether. If it's clean I'd definitely be tempted to purchase if I was boat shopping.
Old     (RPM_DLX)      Join Date: Jul 2010       10-20-2015, 9:18 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattieK27 View Post
Another thing to consider, most (possibly all) came with Mercruiser power. While they do not hold a candle to PCM/Indmar/Illmor for reliability.
I've seen some dumb things on this forum but this made me chuckle. You would be the first person I've met that throws caution to buying a boat with a 350 Mercruiser.
Old     (delbert)      Join Date: Oct 2003       10-20-2015, 6:21 PM Reply   
I have said this once before on a Regal Session post but I do not believe you will find a better bang for your buck in the $18-22k price range. These boats were intended to compete with the top of the line wakeboats back in 2003. They have a deeper freeboard and wide open bow which is great for families, storage, and extra ballast. Most of the ones I have seen are typically loaded (upgraded motors, 3-4 tank ballast systems with reversible pumps, Perfect pass, nice tandem axle trailer...). Look at it, have it checked out, and compare to what else you can get in that price range. Good luck with the boat hunt.

.
Rare and unknown yes...Undesireable I would disagree.
Old     (whatshesaid)      Join Date: Jun 2013       10-21-2015, 11:08 AM Reply   
I remember wanting one of these boats back in the day!
Old     (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-21-2015, 5:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM_DLX View Post
I've seen some dumb things on this forum but this made me chuckle. You would be the first person I've met that throws caution to buying a boat with a 350 Mercruiser.
Typical bro on wakeworld cutting my complete statement, and trying to make it read in a way that was not intended. Well done. If you read the complete statement, I point out that the ability to service it at more locations might be an advantage despite not being as reliable as the more typical towboat powerplants.

Out of curiosity, how many boats have you owned with Merc 350s? I have had a few in the family, and dealt with yearly power steering pump replacements and bi yearly water pump replacements. Leaky fittings are all too common. I have even had accessory pulleys fall off, because of a poor deign choice locating the lifting lug on the same bracket the accessory is on. Lifting the engine to install it in the boat bends the bracket, the pulley is no longer true, and the point force creating during rotation causes cyclical failure to the bearings. (picture attached, because bros need proof) Should I even bring up the fact it took Merc multiple years after PCM and Indmar to introduce EFI to it's mass produced engines?

I also have the benefit of working with engineers at Illmor, Indmar, and even more often Mercury. I know what goes into the engines, the design criteria, plus the design and manufacturing process. I stand by my statement that Illmor/Indmar/PCM makes a better marine package than Mercury. Not that Merc is terrible, but there is a difference. (bold and underlined, just to clarify to those who want to avoid the complete statement) In addition, Merc's helm system (smartcraft) is not that great, and Vesselview is slow and a pain to cycle through. To call it more advanced (when it works) than what others are using in the marine industry is a real stretch. (but hey, a re-calibration and new software every year is no big deal, right?)

To the person that commented the blocks are the same, yes they are. But the other systems and accessories are not, and what do you think typically fails? Its not the block. Humorous post about the LT5 as well. Assuming the precision and accuracy the LT5 was milled and built with in Stillwater is identical to the every day 350 based marine package that goes out the door in Fond du Lac or other facilities, is like assuming a Chevy Cruz is a good performance vehicle because the Corvette is.

At the end of the day, a Session is a decent boat, and if he can get it for a bit cheaper, he would be advised to do so. I honestly am in disbelief I just had to spell out something most people in the boat industry accept as common knowledge. (Merc is not the best option for marine power)
Attached Images
 

Last edited by MattieK27; 10-21-2015 at 6:06 PM.
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       10-21-2015, 6:28 PM Reply   
http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=805567
From your posts in this thread you don't seem to be too impressed with Indmar either.

To the OP, I'd not be concerned that the session has a merc in it. I've personally spent 1800hrs in tow boats with mercs and they were fine.

If it were me, I wouldn't buy the session, but that's because I don't think it's for me. I'd also be slightly concerned with resale since it's a lesser known model despite regal being relatively well known.

Bottom line, if it's nice and you like it, buy it. I've heard it performs fine for the intermediate water sports enthusiast.
Old     (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-21-2015, 6:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post
http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=805567
From your posts in this thread you don't seem to be too impressed with Indmar either.

To the OP, I'd not be concerned that the session has a merc in it. I've personally spent 1800hrs in tow boats with mercs and they were fine.

If it were me, I wouldn't buy the session, but that's because I don't think it's for me. I'd also be slightly concerned with resale since it's a lesser known model despite regal being relatively well known.

Bottom line, if it's nice and you like it, buy it. I've heard it performs fine for the intermediate water sports enthusiast.
I'll take a poorly sourced fuel pump and pressure plate issues over what I have seen out of Merc, internet warrior...

Although my wants for a proper recall process in the marine industry voiced in that thread are still valid, regardless of what powerplant it applies to...
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       10-21-2015, 6:56 PM Reply   
Mattie,

If you want exclude the actual engine and just stick with the hanging accessories, thats fine. Those issues listed may certainly be pattern failures for Mercs, but also keep in mind that the number of marine mercs out there likely meet or exceed the number of the PCM, Indmar, etc, combined. This makes a Merc problem seem way larger then it really is IMO.

I can assure that the vesselview's need for updates is not unique to it. Just surf any towboat owners forum and you will see how mnay Murphy and Medallion bugs there are and how often an update is released for them.

Dont know when Merc started using FI compared to others, but I do know that Merc had MPI back in the mid 90's.

Last edited by chpthril; 10-21-2015 at 7:01 PM.
Old     (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-21-2015, 7:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chpthril View Post
Mattie,

If you want exclude the actual engine and just stick with the hanging accessories, thats fine. Those issues listed may certainly be pattern failures for Mercs, but also keep in mind that the number of marine mercs out there likely meet or exceed the number of the PCM, Indmar, etc, combined. This makes a Merc problem seem way larger then it really is IMO.

I can assure that the vesselview's need for updates is not unique to it. Just surf any towboat owners forum and you will see how mnay Murphy and Medallion bugs there are and how often an update is released for them.
I'm done here. Industry knowledge doesn't matter. Failure rate doesn't matter. Personal experiences don't matter. Industry consensus doesn't matter. This site is a black hole...

Funny story, Medallion is one of our customers as well. Their military programs are bullet proof. Odd that the stuff in Mastercraft was such a problem, right? Almost as odd as assuming someone that owns a Mastercraft has zero knowledge about medallion's Mastercraft issues. Let me take a guess here, you have owned exactly zero boats with SmartCraft and Vesselview...

Last edited by MattieK27; 10-21-2015 at 7:11 PM.
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       10-21-2015, 7:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattieK27 View Post
I'm done here. Industry knowledge doesn't matter. Failure rate doesn't matter. Personal experiences don't matter. Industry consensus doesn't matter. This site is a black hole...

Funny story, Medallion is one of our customers as well. Their military programs are bullet proof. Odd that the stuff in Mastercraft was such a problem, right? Almost as odd as assuming someone that owns a Mastercraft has zero knowledge about medallion's Mastercraft issues. Let me take a guess here, you have owned exactly zero boats with SmartCraft and Vesselview...
You're assuming that I assumed something, is my assumption Oh, Mastercraft is the only one that is/has/or will ever, run Medallion and yes, ive seem Medallion issues on an MC. But hey, like you said, personal experience doesnt count
Old     (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-21-2015, 7:33 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chpthril View Post
You're assuming that I assumed something, is my assumption Oh, Mastercraft is the only one that is/has/or will ever, run Medallion and yes, ive seem Medallion issues on an MC. But hey, like you said, personal experience doesnt count
So no on Smartcraft and Vesselview? I mean that was what we were discussing here, right? Mercury systems?

http://www.medallionis.com/customers/

Easy guide to what else Medallion covers, having issues with your Tige? I can pass along engineering contact info if you need it.

Last edited by MattieK27; 10-21-2015 at 7:36 PM.
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       10-21-2015, 7:45 PM Reply   
Sorry man, dont own a Tige
Old     (RPM_DLX)      Join Date: Jul 2010       10-22-2015, 8:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattieK27 View Post
Out of curiosity, how many boats have you owned with Merc 350s?
I'm currently on my third actually and I have had zero issues with any one of them since you seem to think I have no experience with them.
Old     (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-22-2015, 9:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM_DLX View Post
I'm currently on my third actually and I have had zero issues with any one of them since you seem to think I have no experience with them.
How passive aggressive are your tendencies that you assume "out of curiosity, how many boats have you owned with Merc 350's" is an accusation that you have no experience with them?

I don't care who the marine power provider is, if you owned three boats with zero powertrain issues on each, that is amazing luck. Three Mercs with zero issues? Damn impressive...
Old     (jeff_mn)      Join Date: Jul 2009       10-22-2015, 9:13 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattieK27 View Post
How passive aggressive are your tendencies that you assume "out of curiosity, how many boats have you owned with Merc 350's" is an accusation that you have no experience with them?

I don't care who the marine power provider is, if you owned three boats with zero powertrain issues on each, that is amazing luck. Three Mercs with zero issues? Damn impressive...
I have to assume he's as passive aggressive as you are condescending.

Perfect Wakeworld match.
Old     (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-22-2015, 9:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_mn View Post
I have to assume he's as passive aggressive as you are condescending.

Perfect Wakeworld match.
Two shots in one post, all while adding zero value to the topic at hand. A true Wakeworld hero. Well done...

And to think, all of this for a debate about what the marine industry already knows, that Merc is not as good as Indmar, PCM, or Illmor. What a joke...

Last edited by MattieK27; 10-22-2015 at 9:28 AM.
Old     (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       10-22-2015, 12:13 PM Reply   
I don't know you, so this isn't personal.... What gives you the resume to speak for the "entire marine industry"? I own a shop and put hands on all the above mentioned brands, and none is more or less reliable than the other. Actually, I will remove Ilmore from my discussion as the sample size for me is too small. I've got broken mercruisers here now, 2 broken PCM's, a broken Indmar and 2 broken Marine Power inboards on the floor as we speak. PCM had their share of issues, Pro Boss fords and early GT40's that had multiple fueling issues and recalls. Fuel Control Cell pumps suspended by a piece of 5/16 th hose that failed and leaked. Indmar? Let's talk poorly thought out catalyst systems. Marine Power? G Force fuel pumps were notorious for failure rates waaaay to high when first rolled out. Mercruiser? Accessory drive pulleys out of line. Cool Fuel failures and leaks. Volvo Penta? Fuel cell issues are a huge problem.

I agree with your first post in this thread, Mercuiser enjoys a huge advantage in service locations and parts distribution. That being said, any swinging dick with a checkbook that can buy a load of boats becomes a "service center" for whatever power plant came in the boats. Big difference between qualified, trained, experienced techs versus whoever happens to be holding the wrench at the newest Tige/Mastercraft/Malibu/Centurion/etc dealer.
Old     (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-22-2015, 12:42 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by meathead65 View Post
I don't know you, so this isn't personal.... What gives you the resume to speak for the "entire marine industry"? I own a shop and put hands on all the above mentioned brands, and none is more or less reliable than the other. Actually, I will remove Ilmore from my discussion as the sample size for me is too small. I've got broken mercruisers here now, 2 broken PCM's, a broken Indmar and 2 broken Marine Power inboards on the floor as we speak. PCM had their share of issues, Pro Boss fords and early GT40's that had multiple fueling issues and recalls. Fuel Control Cell pumps suspended by a piece of 5/16 th hose that failed and leaked. Indmar? Let's talk poorly thought out catalyst systems. Marine Power? G Force fuel pumps were notorious for failure rates waaaay to high when first rolled out. Mercruiser? Accessory drive pulleys out of line. Cool Fuel failures and leaks. Volvo Penta? Fuel cell issues are a huge problem.

I agree with your first post in this thread, Mercuiser enjoys a huge advantage in service locations and parts distribution. That being said, any swinging dick with a checkbook that can buy a load of boats becomes a "service center" for whatever power plant came in the boats. Big difference between qualified, trained, experienced techs versus whoever happens to be holding the wrench at the newest Tige/Mastercraft/Malibu/Centurion/etc dealer.
Its a fair question really. Working for an engineering firm that also specializes in product development process assessment, I have had the opportunity to see/work with the processes and the teams that are responsible for what ultimately gets manufactured in the marine/automotive/medical/ag industry. (And more often than not, the manufacturing processes themselves) Ironically, I have spent the most time from the marine standpoint with Mercury Marine. In addition, I'm not sure if my years of boat ownership and relationships with multiple service centers matter, but honestly I doubt anything does on this forum. Do I think I am qualified to make the claim that "Not that Merc is terrible, but there is a difference," yes.

I'm not sure why this has spiraled out of control the way it has, but if you guys really think their isn't a difference in quality and reliability, start demanding Merc power. The unit price for their propulsion systems is a good bit cheaper, and if you can somehow convince the boat manufacturers to believe you're right, it might drive down the price of your next wakeboat.

Last edited by MattieK27; 10-22-2015 at 12:48 PM.
Old     (Cabledog)      Join Date: Dec 2013       10-22-2015, 2:50 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattieK27 View Post
Typical bro on wakeworld cutting my complete statement, and trying to make it read in a way that was not intended. Well done. If you read the complete statement, I point out that the ability to service it at more locations might be an advantage despite not being as reliable as the more typical towboat powerplants.

Out of curiosity, how many boats have you owned with Merc 350s? I have had a few in the family, and dealt with yearly power steering pump replacements and bi yearly water pump replacements. Leaky fittings are all too common. I have even had accessory pulleys fall off, because of a poor deign choice locating the lifting lug on the same bracket the accessory is on. Lifting the engine to install it in the boat bends the bracket, the pulley is no longer true, and the point force creating during rotation causes cyclical failure to the bearings. (picture attached, because bros need proof) Should I even bring up the fact it took Merc multiple years after PCM and Indmar to introduce EFI to it's mass produced engines?

I also have the benefit of working with engineers at Illmor, Indmar, and even more often Mercury. I know what goes into the engines, the design criteria, plus the design and manufacturing process. I stand by my statement that Illmor/Indmar/PCM makes a better marine package than Mercury. Not that Merc is terrible, but there is a difference. (bold and underlined, just to clarify to those who want to avoid the complete statement) In addition, Merc's helm system (smartcraft) is not that great, and Vesselview is slow and a pain to cycle through. To call it more advanced (when it works) than what others are using in the marine industry is a real stretch. (but hey, a re-calibration and new software every year is no big deal, right?)

To the person that commented the blocks are the same, yes they are. But the other systems and accessories are not, and what do you think typically fails? Its not the block. Humorous post about the LT5 as well. Assuming the precision and accuracy the LT5 was milled and built with in Stillwater is identical to the every day 350 based marine package that goes out the door in Fond du Lac or other facilities, is like assuming a Chevy Cruz is a good performance vehicle because the Corvette is.

At the end of the day, a Session is a decent boat, and if he can get it for a bit cheaper, he would be advised to do so. I honestly am in disbelief I just had to spell out something most people in the boat industry accept as common knowledge. (Merc is not the best option for marine power)
Alright serious question... Are those Ray-Ban aviators in the background...
Old     (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       10-22-2015, 3:49 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabledog View Post
Alright serious question... Are those Ray-Ban aviators in the background...
Well yea (Maui Jim actually), fits the style of that boat more than the throw aways I typically have on my towboat ...
Attached Images
 

Reply
Share 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 3:42 AM.

Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
Wake World Home

 

© 2016 eWake, Inc.    
Advertise    |    Contact    |    Terms of Use    |    Privacy Policy    |    Report Abuse    |    Conduct    |    About Us