Translogic Test Drives the Electric Epic 232SE

Check it out, amazing boat!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pP-YHWq1cI

$150,000??!!!

Let's say you can get a big-block gas version for 100k. Let's go ahead and say you burn 50 gallons a day @ $4/gallon. It would take 250 days just to break even, and batteries aren't free to charge by any means.

My questions about this boat:
- Is it actually being considered for production?
- Part of the reason you have balast tanks is to weight a boat how you want it. Sometimes you don't want weight because you are just crusing around. Other times you may only want some weight for a beginner. Other times you need it weighted for surfing. Can you really get the weight where you want it on that boat?
- How long do the batteries last?
- I know I would miss the V8 sound, but the boat in that video had a deep rumble when going...what's that all about?
- Battery life? Boat motors can last a long time - how about these batteries? Especially since many buyers can only run them through the summer.
- $150,000. Really?!!! I'd FAR rather have a loaded X55 with money to spare. If you really want all that torque, throw a diesel in there (which would actually make sense for a wakeboat).

Dude...Relax. I think we get that that boat is not for you. Others, like myself, would love a boat like that. Instead of looking at all the possible faults, in your mind, how about looking at the benefits.

Originally Posted by SkySki

Dude...Relax. I think we get that that boat is not for you. Others, like myself, would love a boat like that. Instead of looking at all the possible faults, in your mind, how about looking at the benefits.

What are the benefits?

Originally Posted by nitrousbird

What are the benefits?

Did you watch the video? I didn't think I needed to write down all the points the video made.

What Happend to the Sexy E-23 ??????? That was a good looking wakeboard boat that happend to be Electric!

This thing looks like a BayLiner! EPIC FAIL

You could also buy a fully loaded bayliner and have plenty of money to spare in gas before you get to your base model X55. By that logic nobody would buy a Nissan Leaf or Tesla Roadster either, everyone would just buy a Nissan Versa or Chevy Corvette instead. Whats the cost analysis payback on that Corvette? For some reason both the Leaf and Roasters are always sold out, thats weird. Have fun carrying jugs and jugs of fuel down to your dock instead of just plugging it in like a cell phone, or trailering your boat to the gas station for a fill up.

And yes this is going into production.

Its technically a "sport boat" that can be used for wakeboarding, and kicks up a decent wake.

The best part is that it opens up those "electric only" lakes to water sports. Glassy water all day anyone?

Its a stern drive?

150k lmao.

High Voltage brings up some good point's Yea it's way easyer to run a power cord down to the dock to charge up instead of dragging 5's down to the dock constantly.

The best part is that it opens up those "electric only" lakes to water sports.

Yea thats not a for sure thing! Most body's of water that are set up for electric boats dont want boats going over 5MPH. In the past electric only was a PC way of saying 5mph. A friend who lives in a Gated Comunity that has lots of water that is electric only said as soon as the HOA saw the new line up of Electric boats like the Nautique and the Epic. They made a 5mph rule for the water.
Wouldnt it suck to drop a 100K on a boat Just so you could ski in waters that were off limit's to only have the officals make it 5mph

I'm with grant on this.

The Nautique electric only goes 4-5 sets before needing a charge. There was no mention of battery life . And furthermore Why would you use an IO on a wake boat? This on goes well with windmills, Ethanol and solar a good thought but not practical in real life. You can but a great boat for 70k and use the extra money to buy gas. At 40 gals a day at 4.00 a gal riding two days a week and a 6 month season it will take 10 years to break even. But what the heck its for the Environment?

You have to start somewhere or you can never get anywhere. Nice start by Epic. Not the greatest looking boat in the world but it has some sweet technology.

I doubt it's marketed for the U.S.
If I remember right aren't most of them going to europe?
I know their laws are much more stringent on emisions then here.

Im only gonna say this. EPIC If you want people to IN THE US to spend the extra money for somthing like this your gonna have to make it look alot better.

Example if it looked like the current line up of popular wakeboard boats I could see people spending the extra money to go electric. I dont see people spending the extra money to look like they are driving what looks like a Nissan Leaf of the water.

Originally Posted by HighVoltage

You could also buy a fully loaded bayliner and have plenty of money to spare in gas before you get to your base model X55. By that logic nobody would buy a Nissan Leaf or Tesla Roadster either, everyone would just buy a Nissan Versa or Chevy Corvette instead. Whats the cost analysis payback on that Corvette? For some reason both the Leaf and Roasters are always sold out, thats weird. Have fun carrying jugs and jugs of fuel down to your dock instead of just plugging it in like a cell phone, or trailering your boat to the gas station for a fill up.

And yes this is going into production.

Its technically a "sport boat" that can be used for wakeboarding, and kicks up a decent wake.

The best part is that it opens up those "electric only" lakes to water sports. Glassy water all day anyone?

LOL, bad examples. The Tesla roadster is no longer made, and why not compare it to what it really is - a Lotus Elise. Of course it was double the price of the Elise and didn't perform as well. Leaf sold out because of tax breaks and limited availability.

The Tesla vs. Elise is a good example. A Bayliner vs. a Mastercraft...really? What I didn't notice was this overpriced electric boat is a STERN DRIVE!!! That makes it that much worse as I assumed it was at least an inboard.

So what is the range of these batteries. I always trailer, but a lot of people who dock don't have access to electric. And even if they do, I highly doubt they would be allowed to pull the type of electric required to charge a boat like that. Further, no electric only lake is going to allow this boat.

Originally Posted by mhunter

The Nautique electric only goes 4-5 sets before needing a charge. There was no mention of battery life . And furthermore Why would you use an IO on a wake boat? This on goes well with windmills, Ethanol and solar a good thought but not practical in real life. You can but a great boat for 70k and use the extra money to buy gas. At 40 gals a day at 4.00 a gal riding two days a week and a 6 month season it will take 10 years to break even. But what the heck its for the Environment?

Also consider that your home electricity bill is going to go up. I have no idea how much but it is going to go up. Also consider what the life of the battery pack is and cost to replace. Let's say you finally break even 10 years down the road but now need to spend 10-20 grand on a new battery pack. Like the raise in electricity bill I have no idea how much a new battery pack costs. I think electric fork lift batteries are somewhere around 2.5-5 grand so I would think 10-20k is probably in the ballpark. Also, how long does it take to completely charge a dead battery?

I will agree with some that it is cool that someone is coming out with something like this but it makes almost zero sense to buy when you can buy the exact same four winns, chapparal, regal for 1/3rd the cost. If they come up with a wakeboat version how much is it going to be? 200k?

It charges off a standard 240VAC 50A short power circuit. Commonly found in boat marinas or RV parks if you like to trailer your boat places and camp.

And yes, electricity isn't free either. But it sure is a lot cheaper than fuel. But if you do some quick math, a fully discharged battery pack will take on 60kWh. Depending on your electricity rates that can cost you as little as $5 to as much as $20 to fill up your boat.

I do see everyone's point that its expensive and not your big block V8 wake board boat. But its also the first one out there and they don't seem to be having any troubles filling pre-orders for now.

The goal isn't to take over the entire market with electric boats, so don't get all worried about that. You will still be able to burn 7 gallons/hour for as long as you want. But it does open up another market for electric speed boats, since nothing even comes close to it on the electric side. And there are several bodies of water in Europe that require some extremely hefty permits to operate a combustion boat, with those regulations this price point is a no brainier.

High Voltage - are you affiliated with Epic or Translogic? Not that it matters, just curious! Thanks for posting the video for us.

HighVoltage.... do you work with/for Epic?

x3 with Grant. Fugly.

Yes I do work with Epic on occasion. I figured it was pretty obvious.

Regardless, this watercraft is still a technological marvel and I thought this video was worth sharing. There is much more fun videos of this boat that cannot be shared at the moment.

I apologize to everyone who loves funding Saudi Arabia, polluting our local waterways, exposing themselves/family to high levels of NOX, doing fluids changes every 50 hours, and worrying about combustible gasses trapped in their hull for providing a safe viable alternative. Although the price is steep at the moment, it will come down in time and the performance will continue to increase. This is just a hint of an affordable boat you may just purchase years down the road when fuel is $10/gallon if you can even get it then.

Ok, now we can burn this thread. If you want to advertise then pay. There is no need for you to get all defensive. They made a way overpriced ugly runabout and threw an ugly tower on it as an afterthought. Why not make an electric boat in the current Epic hull? Although I think they are ugly as sin as well at least it is a wakeboat. As for the last part of your post. You would fit in really well with all the tree hugging granolas up here in Seattle.

This guy reminds me of that guy Dan Dulong? I think that was the guys name.

backfiring threads. making mondays better everyweek.....

Does working with Epic "on occasion" mean occasionally m-f 8-5?
Thanks for sharing the vid, as it is definitely worth sharing. Down the road when electric becomes more affordable and popular this boat will be part of the history to getting there, which is cool. Time will tell where the current price point is....even though your "no-brainer price point" is 3x the current median household income...no-brainer, haha. unintentional puns are funny.

I don't see a problem with High Voltage's Post. Thank you for letting us know your connection with Epic, I don't think it changes anything. I think some times company's TRY and give us what we THINK we want! I agree we need to be looking in a drirection of Hybrid or Electric boat's. I don't mind paying a extra cost to "Go Green" I don't mind that my Prius dosn't look as stylish as most COOL Car's because its a tool for comuting and it gets 50MPG. But I just don't see many people (In the US Boat Market) "Paying a Premium" to have a boat with styling like this one?

I was told that when Toyota first did testing of the Prius people were given the option weather the Prius look'd like a normal mid sized sedan or if they liked the Prius Look. I was told people liked the look because it was a statment. People admited the Prius looked ulgy but it was a clear statment that the people that bought it were "going green" Over time IMO the Prius dosent look that bad.

The Nissan leaf again another ULGY as sin car mabey the worst looking car on the road next to the Nissan Juke. Is Nissan following in Toyota's footsteps trying to make a car that makes a statment?

Is Epic tying to make a Statment in this boat? IMO if its for the EURO market than that makes sence. Cause IMO Here in the US form follows function.

Originally Posted by grant_west

I was told that when Toyota first did testing of the Prius people were given the option weather the Prius look'd like a normal mid sized sedan or if they liked the Prius Look. I was told people liked the look because it was a statment. People admited the Prius looked ulgy but it was a clear statment that the people that bought it were "going green" Over time IMO the Prius dosent look that bad.

.

They liked it as a statement so all the smug A-holes could smell each others farts.

Originally Posted by polarbill

Ok, now we can burn this thread. If you want to advertise then pay.

I thought their banner ad meant they paid? It's been a while but I think I saw their banner ad up and around the site. I may be wrong.

highvoltage's last post reminded me of...

Neat idea. First of all, what the heck was epic thinking with the looks of it? Why can't boat and car manufacturers design a electric that at least looks decent. Wheres the speedometer? I doubt you will see anyone on here buying a $150,000 stern drive. How long until the huge batteries need to be recycled? Its a start, but it seems a long way until its practical.

I'm not here to advertise and as soon as someone asked if I worked for epic, I knew that's the ad bashing direction it was going unfortunately. I'm here to educate people on new technology and answer questions about the industry. Its not everyday you see one of these boats. I was involved in the battery management system and high voltage system integration.

People love to point out the differences between new/old technology and cling on to what they have now. Myself and Epic have no problem with that but it seems ridiculous to me to point out points equivalent to a Dodge Viper for having bad gas mileage or a Toyota Prius for being slow. Epic's been on the bleeding edge of recreational boat design for quite some time now.

The boat is intended for a euro market, and like every other boat in its price range, the colors and interior can be tailored to your liking. This happens to be what the customer ordered, to each his own. I can't afford this boat and probably never will be able to, but after being on it several times, if I had the money it would be parked in my driveway.

Don't worry, an electric version with the wakeboat hull is in the works too. This stuff isn't as easy as dropping in a power unit from Mercruiser that is plug and play.

The technology is cool and fun to see actually work in the real world. It would be fun to get a ride on one and check it out. But other than that, it's just a prototype. 99.5% of the general public can't afford it and/or it wouldn't fit for their uses. But why get so religiously political on us? It's not a real alternative. I love to wakeboard and boat. But presently, and for the foreseeable future, that means going out on my fossil fuel burner. Am I evil and should I be punished for that?

So far there is no real advantage of owning an electric or hybrid vs owning say a Honda civic in terms of cost of ownership. On average it takes about 10 years of ownership to recoup the additional cost of the hybrid , and realistically, not many people keep their car ten years. I agree it is a starting point in the right direction, but far from "better" than conventional engines

I'm not bashing you at all High Voltage, I asked the question because I thought that if you did work for them that you could maybe give us more pictures/video/info. I'm all for building the electric stuff here in the USA if it means more jobs for people.

High
How long and what speed before a recharge is needed? Is there a backup or warning before the batteries go dead? How long will the batteries last before needing replacement? How much are the replacement batteries?

If this boat was parked in your Garage, With the swim deck against the wall I would like to see you TRY and get in, You have pretty much blocked the Area (with the Tower) that you would enter the boat from the trailer. This boat has a High Gunnal. You would need to stand on the Fenders and throw your leg over and into the boat. BUT the one location where you could mabey do this is Now blocked by the tower leg's. FAIL FAIL FAIL. I hope you plan on selling this boat with a Step ladder so you can get in and out of it.

if anyone owns stock in oil, you should be happy, the cost of electic cars will really jump the gas and oil industry, not to mention we have no idea how we will create enough power to charge batteries if everyone jumps on this ideal. Dont get me wrong, i understand the benefits, need etc etc. its not about gas, its about being able to make power, if its natural gas, oil, hydro, wind etc etc there are costs.

Thats an Arial freeride tower. Getting in the boat shouldnt be a problem at least is isnt on mine. (fender to swimdeck). But getting the tower to be stable is where this issues will come in. I had 1/4 inch of side play in each heim joint that attaches the freeride tower. ... They were very quick and sent some out for me to replace, only problem same play if not worse on one of the heims. Sorry back on track with the electric boat

Originally Posted by grant_west

If this boat was parked in your Garage, With the swim deck against the wall I would like to see you TRY and get in, You have pretty much blocked the Area (with the Tower) that you would enter the boat from the trailer. This boat has a High Gunnal. You would need to stand on the Fenders and throw your leg over and into the boat. BUT the one location where you could mabey do this is Now blocked by the tower leg's. FAIL FAIL FAIL. I hope you plan on selling this boat with a Step ladder so you can get in and out of it.

High- thanks for sharing this with us, but you had to have known this was going to get bashed... this is wakeworld where only people who really love wakeboarding visit. Most of us have inboards, and those that have stern drives probably wish they had inboards and will most likely purchase and inboard next time... $150k for a chapparal that has not been time tested is no good. Epic's deisel/electric was sick looking and an all electric version of that would get more positive responses.

wakebrd94- Its funny you should say that. I just recently picked up a 99 civic for $400, i put in additional $200 and now I have a perfectly running 36.8 mpg car. I can buy a lot of gas with the tens of thousands of dollars I did not pay for a prius.

What voltage are you running for the system, and the drive?
Is it being converted to a/c or running straight dc for the drive?
What's the efficiency of the motor?

Guys really? We have someone inside on the project and all we can do is bash on the design?
Wow, as a whole we really are that close minded.

What we should really be doing is finding out more about this boat putting insight to the design and be open minded to new technology.

I am kind of suprised that Epic used the arial tower though. There is a local boat with it and personally I think it's quite flimsy.

What happend with the electric boat from epic last year that looked good and was a v-drive. And if peopel say it will find a way on the Europa market, I don't think so (i live in Belgium) it is more lickly to put a diesel in, has more torque than a gas of lpg and is more efficiente. My dad always said that we will buy a wakboard boat directly if the put diesel in it. (now having crowline).
Oh and maybe its electric, but you need nuclear power to create it and if everyone goes electric cars, boats, busses, how would you produce this amound of electric???

Whats the dry weight of this boat? I can imagine its going to be heavy with the electric motor and batteries.

Originally Posted by cowwboy

I am kind of suprised that Epic used the arial tower though. There is a local boat with it and personally I think it's quite flimsy.

In the video it looked like it was a "custom" version of the FreeRide. I didn't see any slip joints in the top section like there are on the normal FreeRide. So, I'd imagine it would be a bit stronger than the normal one. Still, assuming it is a custom FreeRide I'd expect something way better than a $1,500 Chinese tower on a $150k boat.

Originally Posted by Jeff

I didn't see any slip joints in the top section like there are on the normal FreeRide.

Never mind, I just revisited the video and spotted the slip joints in the top bar. Teh lame!

This thing looks like a BayLiner! EPIC FAIL[/QUOTE]

hahaha.... you said bayliner...

The battery pack runs around 360V DC nominal. The drive motor is a PMDC motor, notice the 3 high voltage cables going into it. PMDC is a modulated wave form of AC and the efficiency is up in the 90% range at all speeds/loads.

You can get a few hours of wakeboarding in on a charge, perfect for morning and evening sets. That will pretty much drain the 60kWh battery pack. It has a progressive power cut-back as the state of charge gets low to let you know its time to head home.

It has 9kW of on board charging power, and it will pull as much power as your source will let you (so it can run off 110v if thats all you have, just at lower power levels). Using just those chargers you could fill it back up in about 6-7 hours. Combining the on board chargers and an external charger, it can be filled back up in around 3-4 hours. With a 45kW fast charge station it can be filled in a little over an hour.

I'm quite aware of the differences between a stern drive, v-drive, and pod drive. But remember, this is a sport boat that you can also use for wakeboarding, not a wakeboard specific boat.

Unfortunately we can't change the laws of physics, so all the drag associated with a wakeboat hull requires more power to operate. More power means less run time. This hull was used in the interest of higher efficiency and partnering up with Epics new manufacturing facility in Louisiana.

The dry weight of the boat is 5800lbs.

Everyone gets their electricity from different sources already. Most of them are coal and nuclear power. So its difficult to say how clean the prop to well energy source is and every application will vary. There is the possibility that you COULD power this boat 100% off a wind/solar/other alternative energy source and you can't say that about current boats. However, the US continues to add more and more solar/wind power to the grid every year. I find it comical that power companies continue to gripe that they will not be able to supply enough power for the additional loads of electric vehicles. Do you know of any other businesses that complains that they won't be able to sell enough of their future product and won't invest in their own infrastructure to support it? That's a terrible business model if you ask me.

So is that a hull Epic designed.. or did they just borrow the hull from someone like Crownline, FourWinns, etc.

I guess maybe Epic has decided they need to find a niche for themselves and the Wakeboat thing isn't it.... so they have decided to be the leader in electric boat technology. Might be a smart move.. patent up all the tech and sell it to Merc/Volve and all their boat manufactures. No need for your own dealer network... just sell the technology.

I think the electric boat concept is awesome and I applaud Epic and Nautique for taking the financial risks to make this type of a boat a reality. However, why did Epic make this new model so fricken ugly. I can stomach the stern drive and the bayliner -esque hull, but at least give it a decent color and graphics. That brown just looks awful! It looks like something from the 70's.

So it's a 3 phase using a vfd for the speed control? 90%? wow I thought our old ngm hub motors were efficient on our solar cars in school.
The utilities have to deal with the EPA telling them what they can and can't build. Let alone the new mercury standards about to come through. Trust me it's not as easy as just building new plants.
But comparing the emissions from a power plant to personally owned IC engines is funny. The standards and monitoring of the power plants keeps them running as cleanly as possible.
Even ca sniff test doesn't keep as close of an eye on the output of personally owned vehicles.

It's a great idea!

Great idea, but as it sits:

a big advatage of electric is the instant torque. man i would love that in my boat.
i give props to them. as mentioned earlier you have to start somewhere. and as one of only 3 or so from major manufactures its a step in the right direction.
as with anything. the more common they become the price, practicallity, and styling will all get better

Maybe it's not the best boat for the US market but if it sells well in other markets, then go for it. I hope they sell thousands of them at $150k in other countries because we need cash flow coming in to this country right now to keep the economy moving. Is Epic making money, losing or breaking even at $150k? Hopefully they are making money on it. It's just like anything, plasma TV's used to be $5k and now you can get them for $400. DVD players are now as cheap as $20-$30 when they were $400.

Good luck guys! Keep up the good work on innovation!

The stern drive gets me....no surfin... I'm out

Why would i want to spend 150k on an io when i could go out and buy two brand new V-drives and I would be able to surf and have twice as good wakes than an io. I think ill pass for now.