Wake size for Tantrums/backrolls..

What size wake would be required, at minimum, to execute a tantrum and/or backroll, assuming proper form is used?

Shaun Murray & A few others used to do these out in the flats as an "Air Trick". So at minimum you need no wake.

Technically, none.

a couple of guys i ride with can use the rollers from other boats. but stephen and doc are correct...with the right edge control, you don't need a wake at all. practice, practice, practice.

i think you would atleast need a tower then. and if you have a boat with a tower then i think your wake will be big enough to do either trick. i don't know if it's ever been done with out a tower though, would prolly be really hard.

Minimal to none. I know a guy who through his first tantrum off a bassboat.

They can absolutely be pulled without a tower. You guys ever seen any old footage? Matter of fact these tricks were invented before the tower.

Ryan is right, I was watching my old Class in session video last week with Thomas Horrell, Mike Weddington and so others made in 1997 the tower was not around back then and they where behihd a Tige with taps and a skylon pole. Andrea Gaytan was doing a Bel Air which is a Tantrum without the wake.

i believe a bel air is a backroll without wake....

and now that i think about it....isn't there a "tweety-bird" (whirly without wake)?

...that's just ridiculous!

Back in the day, the "air roll to revert" (in the flats, no wake), was a pretty standard-issue outlaw trick, and most of the guys could throw them at will. The Skylon had been invented, but many of the guys didn't like the flex of it, so they preferred just to go off the low slalom pylon for a more solid pull. Watch Necrason's section in "Skurf's Up" for one example. He's doing raley variations, whirlys, etc., all off the low pylon with a wake that would be considered at best medium-sized by today's standards.

From its roots, wakeboarding developed around the techniques of proper edge control and proper loading of the line. The introduction of the tower and the ever growing sizes of boats/wakes just contributed added boost, like icing on the cake. Now days, the wakes have grown so big that I believe newer riders often do not understand or even recognize the concepts of proper edging and loading the line.

or like this weekend when i saw Doug Goodman pull a backroll from behind a jetski.............no pylon or tower

I like watching High Wake Drifters & Byerly is doing Fat Chance's off the low pylon. Up until like 1998 they used the low pylon in tournaments. That's why a lot of the old schoolers go so huge they are used to having to work their asses off to get height. Ryan Seibring Air front to Blind, how about that! Shaun Murray Air Whirly, Air Air Raley, Air Scarecrow Air Tantrum to Blind. It's what you make it...

A Bel Air is a Tantrum without the wake.

i have footage of someone doing a backroll behind a old MC stars and stripes in 95 with no pylon/tower, or weight

None of the boats around here have towers most of them are like 17 foot Boston Whalers with of course no tower (just a little pylon) and we manage to throw tantrums, backrolls, scarecrows just fine sometimes one of my friends will pull off a raley behind it. And let me tell you the wake is very small.

A backroll in the flats is not too tough, but how the hell do you do a tantrum in the flats?? (Bel Air?)

ive seen guys do them with very small outboard wakes.

Do you guys remember when the Pro Tour had the two parts. The had the boat competition and the Sea Doo competition. Darin Shapiro along with everyone else used to kill it behind a Sea Doo. He was doing most of the stuff he could behind the boat, behind the Sea Doo. It was freakin amazing.