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Old     (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       01-18-2015, 8:09 PM Reply   
If this site is any indication, yes.

100K+ wakeboats are the norm, hauling 20 people in tube boat is supreme and how many wetsounds you have on the tower is more important than a normal dude having fun on their boat.

Is there anything that can get this back to the average family man buying a boat for his family to have fun on?
Old     (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-18-2015, 9:01 PM Reply   
If you go to a cable park you will definitely see that the industry isn't dead. There are tons of new people getting into the sport and getting really good. A lot of riders never even ride behind boats and found the sport strictly because of parks.
Old     (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       01-18-2015, 9:29 PM Reply   
That is cool. I like that normal people that can't afford a 100k boat are getting into it. Maybe that is what the industry needed. Maybe it will knock mastercraft, malibu, nautique and every other brand back to reality.
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       01-18-2015, 9:42 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by polarbill View Post
If this site is any indication, yes.

100K+ wakeboats are the norm, hauling 20 people in tube boat is supreme and how many wetsounds you have on the tower is more important than a normal dude having fun on their boat.

Is there anything that can get this back to the average family man buying a boat for his family to have fun on?
So maybe you should not spend 100k on a boat, own a tube, have 20 friends, or put tower speakers on your boat...having fun is up to you bromeo
Old     (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       01-18-2015, 9:46 PM Reply   
I would but I can only afford a 30K boat so I can only choose 1. Believe me, I would rather spend 20K on a used boat and buy another fishing boat than support these aholes.
Old     (Redheadd)      Join Date: Apr 2014       01-19-2015, 7:21 AM Reply   
I wanna buy a aluminum fishing boat just so I can beach it!
Old     (Redheadd)      Join Date: Apr 2014       01-19-2015, 7:22 AM Reply   
For 100k+ is buy property instead. Just saying
Old     (Elliottsx80)      Join Date: Feb 2012       01-19-2015, 7:44 AM Reply   
i agree that wake boat prices are getting way out of hand. most ride like crap, uncomfortable, top speed sucks, and unless you got twins the handling blows ( no steering in reverse ). they are marketing these way overpriced boats to the new generation, ( single males from 21-35) they get out of school making decent money and only look at the monthly payment. they don't care how long the payment it is, nor the interest rate, or depreciation. all they know is they went to the lake with their buddy last week and he had 10 hot girls with him, and its only costing him 634 a month.they don't care that its for 20 years. with young guys having the egos they do, they are not going to buy a boat thats crappier than their friends. they run out and buy a new x46, 247, or g series. most think the more expensive the boat the hotter the girls get. kinda like a camaro vs Lamborghini.
Old     (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       01-19-2015, 7:59 AM Reply   
You don't have to spend $100k for a nice boat. Infact, there are many used V drives with very low hours under $50k that will give anyone a great day on the water. I totally agree about monthly payment, notice on every boat show pricing they put the payment amount. Problem is those 20+ year financed boats when they go to sell in 4-5 years are upside down, especially paying top dollar boat show pricing plus all the financing charges you occur on the loan.

The new prices are definitely reaching a new level and appears to be no end in sight, the Malibu factory is running full tilt right now. New custom orders are 2-3 months out before you can even get a spray date, I guess the market has spoken and people want high end boats and are willing to pay the price. Cheap gas, good job market, and long term financing is a great recipe for strong boat sales.
Old     (skiboarder)      Join Date: Oct 2006       01-19-2015, 8:06 AM Reply   
Yay, winter!
Old     (Elliottsx80)      Join Date: Feb 2012       01-19-2015, 8:28 AM Reply   
i agree there are some sweet deals on used boats, but all they see is the payment. new boat finance is like 20 years? used maybe 10? i really don't know the numbers just guessing.
Old     (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       01-19-2015, 9:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fman View Post
You don't have to spend $100k for a nice boat. Infact, there are many used V drives with very low hours under $50k that will give anyone a great day on the water. I totally agree about monthly payment, notice on every boat show pricing they put the payment amount. Problem is those 20+ year financed boats when they go to sell in 4-5 years are upside down, especially paying top dollar boat show pricing plus all the financing charges you occur on the loan.
.

Are they really that upside down lately? I mean the ability of guys to flip in and outa boats every year the last 5 yrs makes u wonder are they really going to be upside down?
If the bubble bursts then yes they will but if a new LSV costs $150k in 2020 then I think they will be fine.
Old     (cowwboy)      Join Date: Jul 2008       01-19-2015, 9:37 AM Reply   
Robby hit it dead on. I remember one dealer bragging that he could get it up to 30yr notes if you had certain options on the boat(toilet / shower etc).
I'll stick with my older boat I can cut a check on. But it is nice that my boat has appreciated over my ownership time. Just sucks when we go to upgrade.
Old     (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       01-19-2015, 10:14 AM Reply   
It is crazy what these new boats cost today. What I think is almost worse, but good at the same time is that your older boat is now worth more. You could almost sell your older 05-10 for what they were worth new at the time. I thought I got a pretty good deal on my 09 Tige but when you realize what they went for in 09 it didn't depreciate all that much. Not that I plan on turning around and selling it any time soon it does make me feel like I could damn near get the same price for it going forward. Time will tell I guess.
Old     (corerider)      Join Date: May 2008       01-19-2015, 11:07 AM Reply   
I hardly think the wakeboat industry is dead... Shifted to wakesurfing boats maybe more than wakeboarding boats, but not dead. The amount of new boats flying out of assembly lines and showrooms proves that. It is really crazy to see a 2015 Nautique 210 is basically 2x what I bought mine for in 2003, but EVERYTHING has gone up since then. Try to buy a new car or truck these days and see if you get even close to the same price as 10 years ago for a comparable vehicle.

I think the industry mentality has changed though... In 1997 I began wakeboarding behind a 17' I/O with 500# of sandbags in it my friend's family owned. 1998 I bought a 1984 Ski Nautique 2001 and piled a few sacs in it because at the time I couldn't afford a "new expensive boat". I learned many of the tricks I still throw today as well as a few I don't throw now behind that boat and had loads of fun doing it. Fast forward 5 more years and I ordered my 2003 210 SANTE. I wanted to improve my riding and wished to have a newer boat mainly for reliability because the 84 was starting to show its age. I've had 13 seasons of fun behind this boat and I'm looking forward to #14. I don't have plans to trade up for many reasons, nor do I really need too. I can do the same tricks behind it that I have done behind G23s. The tricks may be a bit higher, but still the same trick.

A person really wanting to get into wakeboarding can do it on a budget. Many of us started that way. Now we have the advantage of cable parks to bring first-timers wanting to "give it a try" even more access on an even cheaper budget. There will always be those groups that NEED the newest best boat, board, speakers, etc. just like 10 years ago... They just are required to pay more for that stuff now. No one is forcing them to buy next year's models!

I don't really feel like there is any argument for it being too expensive to get into these sports. People just make it expensive by "keeping up with the Joness"!
Old     (501s)      Join Date: Feb 2010       01-19-2015, 11:36 AM Reply   
Would you guys say that is very similar to what happened when boats went from Ski to Wakeboard? The boats got bigger, heavier and way more expensive.

Now these new "Surf Boats" are doing much the same thing. Bigger, heavier and way more expensive. Going from Ski boats to wakeboats meant getting new features like plumbed in ballast. Now getting into a new surf boat means a surf system and ballast, lots of ballast. More things to increase the price of the boat.
Old     (you_da_man)      Join Date: Sep 2009       01-19-2015, 11:55 AM Reply   
Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, etc...I don't see Ford, Dodge, Chevy knocking the exotic cars "back into reality" as you put it Bill. You have choices, you can wakeboard or tube behind an 18' used Bayliner or bassboat or do it behind a G25. Fun is fun either way. Why should it matter how someone is using THEIR boat THEY paid for?

Last edited by you_da_man; 01-19-2015 at 11:58 AM.
Old     (slowwwflowww)      Join Date: Mar 2011       01-19-2015, 12:27 PM Reply   
This topic is getting more common every day.Why?Because new boat prices rise.Why?Because people can afford them.Doesnt mean wakeboarding is dead,just means shifting a little to surfing.Why?Because it is easier.Both will survive and thrive.Why?Because they are fun.Why?Because humans just wanna have fun.So for those that cant afford a $150,000 boat,dont worry.Why?Because you are having as much fun as the guy that can.So ends this post.Why?Because its getting redundantWhy?etc.................
Old     (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       01-19-2015, 1:23 PM Reply   
Wakeboarding is dead? Thanks for letting me know. I almost took my 2005 wake boat out to ride this spring. How embarrassed would I have been not knowing that the only way left to wakeboard was to get into a bran new 2015 G23 or X35. I'll be putting my boat out for the trash man tonight. Just sitting on the curb for some poor shmuck who was misinformed to pick it up and get laughed at for trying to wakeboard behind it. I'll give my address in my next post.
Old     (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       01-19-2015, 1:32 PM Reply   
.... or NOT! There are a million ways to wakeboard without buying a 150K boat. Give it up already. You sound like the person who indicates that if NFL players got minimum wage instead of millions per year that suddenly ticket prices would go down to something that the average person could afford. NFL ticket prices, like wake boat prices, are determined by what people are willing to pay. Cost of production has very little to with the final consumer price. NFL Stadiums are filled to the brim with people willing to pay "too much" for a ticket. Mastercraft has plenty of new boat orders even though they are charging "way too much" for a new boat. New top of the line wake boats, like NFL tickets, aren't for the average person. They are a limited commodity. A combination of above average skills and/or significant sacrifice will get you either of these things but there isn't enough of either for everyone.
Old     (fman)      Join Date: Nov 2008       01-19-2015, 1:54 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordicron View Post
Are they really that upside down lately? I mean the ability of guys to flip in and outa boats every year the last 5 yrs makes u wonder are they really going to be upside down?
If the bubble bursts then yes they will but if a new LSV costs $150k in 2020 then I think they will be fine.
I think at certain price points it makes it easier to flip/sell a boat every few years with minimal loss or depreciation. I am referring to these prices we are seeing at boat shows. $130k for a boat, financed, simple math with interest, your not paying much of the loan down over 3-4 years. All these boats take some type of depreciation hit once you tow them home. Granted I agree with you if the price keeps increasing on new boats this does help the cause of not being as upside down once you decide to sell.

On a $130k loan, over 20 years your payment is $857/month at 5.0% interest - in the first year you pay $6,411 in interest and $3,883 towards the principal. If you keep the boat three years and goto sell it, after three years you would owe approx $117k on the boat making the minimum payment. I am not sure if it would be possible to sell that boat for $117k in three years? maybe? Either way the interest alone your giving away is pretty crazy. Maybe this scenario is a rare one and people are coming in with large down payments or full cash.... This is all speculation on my part. Regardless I don't think we will see any slowing of prices over the next few years.

With the surfing craze going on I can only see the wake boat market continuing to thrive, they have opened up an entirely new buyers market with surfing. I am getting older and surfing is definitely easy on the body, as much as I do like to wakeboard after a full day of surfing I am good to go... wakeboarding not so much anymore.

Last edited by fman; 01-19-2015 at 1:57 PM.
Old    rullery            01-19-2015, 2:06 PM Reply   
It doesn't mean the industry is dead, because like others have said they are selling record numbers of 100k+ boats. I think the people who are buying them are just not the kind of people who frequent forums like this
Old    rullery            01-19-2015, 2:21 PM Reply   
I also think surfing is attracting new inboard buyers to these boats because it's the only thing you can't do on any other type of boat. Whereas there is always a potential loss in sale to an IO for your average watersports family that is hesitant to buy an inboard for a number of reasons.

Manufacturers are evolving the category to attract the buyer interested in the lifestyle rather than just a superior tool to wakeboard behind. Don't blame the manufacturers, blame all the new buyers for eating it up
Old     (slowwwflowww)      Join Date: Mar 2011       01-19-2015, 2:22 PM Reply   
The only way to drive prices down is to get all the people who can afford them to stop buying them.Never! Why?.......
Old     (Jmaxymek)      Join Date: Feb 2012       01-19-2015, 6:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiboarder View Post
Yay, winter!
This.
Old     (granddaddy53)      Join Date: Dec 2013       01-20-2015, 5:31 AM Reply   
definitely not dead, new buyer 2014 my story:

i am bat **** crazy about my stripped down ordered to spec, new 2014 a20 price point boat $49 +5 for tandom axle "cool" painted galvanized with 4 georgious wheels. I would never have put up 65 to 75 or more cash(then more for sales tax to register- oh yeah tax on used person to person is actually on trailer value in louisiana), or "oh my god" financed?--- for a used boat no matter how decked(and a guy getting rid of that never "tilted" the cushions and kept it clean or worried about his timed maintenance because he probably new he was getting rid of it). $49 includes surfgate, wedge, plug and play(sacs are probably cheaper than ordering more ballast on an already expensive boat and probably not as much weight as i added 750, 750, and 950), heater, custom cover, stereo 1(i'm 50+ and like music not in love, i can hear it surfing just fine-75% of the activity), cruise control - standard?, transom flush, ski pylon, pop up cleats(didn't know you had to order those but you do), high altitude prop acme 1235(standard 330hp works fine boat loaded with people and water and fuel- and oh by the way pretty economical on fuel especially for me and the wife alone- 13-20 gallans for 4 hours to all day because of low consumption while surfing and skating), bluetooth(useless because it disconnects each time you turn motor off-usb much better and standard), dual battery switch. snap in carpet(real stupid).

I added 3 monster sacs and quick connect gear, 2 surfboards, 4 axis vinyl black non swivel racks and tower mounted mirror(all axis gear from spare from upgrades at texasmalib.com- therefor alot cheaper), boat safety gear and 2 vinyl saucer anchors, spare acme standard used retooled prop and my all in sales tax (7%)and registration included price 64600. My little 20 footer sinks easier than bigger boats and makes a 3'6" surfwave from well by platform to peak of the curl with a freaky face on the starboard side, decent on the port. I'm ok on the wakeboard but actually full ballast and sacs scares the hell out of me, but those who are better are seriously impressed with my wake even when it isn't quite full in the sacs. SO WHY WOULD I BUY USED, AFTER A FULL SEASON MINE STILL HAS THE NEW SMELL BECAUSE I NEVER FAILED TO TILT MY CUSHIONS INCLUDING THE REAR DECK THAT I PROP UP WITH THE PLUGS FROM THE SACS AND I RUN A FAN UNDER THE AWSOME CUSTOM COVER AND I EVEN TRAIL THE BOAT WITH THE COVER-THEREFORE IT STAYS CLEAN So again why would i buy used, as i will never get rid of this boat because of the value and i never get ride of boats until they are 15 to 20 years old. Just a perspective from an old fart who always wanted one(young stuck up, nose in the air riders wouldn't even let me buy rides offering $100 a day), and wanted to surf, and when i learned of my price point opportunity i went all in after hard core negotiations. After 166 hour season mostly mine and some the wife(love that woman who drives for me all day!) i am still happy even if i am still dealing with a couple of plug and play defects and 1 or 2 other minor warranty issues that i will have solved before i get back on the water this spring still under my 1 year warranty.

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Old     (granddaddy53)      Join Date: Dec 2013       01-20-2015, 5:57 AM Reply   
forgot my chillax seats and depth finder, as i got plenty for my money
Old     (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-20-2015, 6:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by granddaddy53 View Post
definitely not dead, new buyer 2014 my story:

i am bat **** crazy about my stripped down ordered to spec, new 2014 a20 price point boat $49 +5 for tandom axle "cool" painted galvanized with 4 georgious wheels. I would never have put up 65 to 75 or more cash(then more for sales tax to register- oh yeah tax on used person to person is actually on trailer value in louisiana), or "oh my god" financed?--- for a used boat no matter how decked(and a guy getting rid of that never "tilted" the cushions and kept it clean or worried about his timed maintenance because he probably new he was getting rid of it). $49 includes surfgate, wedge, plug and play(sacs are probably cheaper than ordering more ballast on an already expensive boat and probably not as much weight as i added 750, 750, and 950), heater, custom cover, stereo 1(i'm 50+ and like music not in love, i can hear it surfing just fine-75% of the activity), cruise control - standard?, transom flush, ski pylon, pop up cleats(didn't know you had to order those but you do), high altitude prop acme 1235(standard 330hp works fine boat loaded with people and water and fuel- and oh by the way pretty economical on fuel especially for me and the wife alone- 13-20 gallans for 4 hours to all day because of low consumption while surfing and skating), bluetooth(useless because it disconnects each time you turn motor off-usb much better and standard), dual battery switch. snap in carpet(real stupid).

I added 3 monster sacs and quick connect gear, 2 surfboards, 4 axis vinyl black non swivel racks and tower mounted mirror(all axis gear from spare from upgrades at texasmalib.com- therefor alot cheaper), boat safety gear and 2 vinyl saucer anchors, spare acme standard used retooled prop and my all in sales tax (7%)and registration included price 64600. My little 20 footer sinks easier than bigger boats and makes a 3'6" surfwave from well by platform to peak of the curl with a freaky face on the starboard side, decent on the port. I'm ok on the wakeboard but actually full ballast and sacs scares the hell out of me, but those who are better are seriously impressed with my wake even when it isn't quite full in the sacs. SO WHY WOULD I BUY USED, AFTER A FULL SEASON MINE STILL HAS THE NEW SMELL BECAUSE I NEVER FAILED TO TILT MY CUSHIONS INCLUDING THE REAR DECK THAT I PROP UP WITH THE PLUGS FROM THE SACS AND I RUN A FAN UNDER THE AWSOME CUSTOM COVER AND I EVEN TRAIL THE BOAT WITH THE COVER-THEREFORE IT STAYS CLEAN So again why would i buy used, as i will never get rid of this boat because of the value and i never get ride of boats until they are 15 to 20 years old. Just a perspective from an old fart who always wanted one(young stuck up, nose in the air riders wouldn't even let me buy rides offering $100 a day), and wanted to surf, and when i learned of my price point opportunity i went all in after hard core negotiations. After 166 hour season mostly mine and some the wife(love that woman who drives for me all day!) i am still happy even if i am still dealing with a couple of plug and play defects and 1 or 2 other minor warranty issues that i will have solved before i get back on the water this spring still under my 1 year warranty.

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I think we found our new LON........ Just with an AXIS
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       01-20-2015, 6:25 AM Reply   
It's CUSTOM though!!!
Old     (Ewok01)      Join Date: Apr 2013       01-20-2015, 6:56 AM Reply   
It's not really a stripped down A20 though, is it? And he didn't buy it for 50k either, did he?
Old     (williamburell)      Join Date: Sep 2011       01-20-2015, 7:21 AM Reply   
Quote:
I think we found our new LON........ Just with an AXIS
I picture this guy

Old     (King12)      Join Date: Jul 2012       01-20-2015, 12:05 PM Reply   
I know personally as soon as I got a boat, I saw myself drifting over to brand specific forums to learn more about it/talk to others with like boats and just chill. I def think that you see a lot of keeping up with the Joness but seems most legit people you meet care more about having a good time (not meaning drinkin buds but I guess that too), and I still see lots of people looking for older cheap boats and haulin sacs/lead and sand. However, those people arent the ones blasting all over WakeWorld throwing up pictures of their new rig and how much the spent and how the shower has a fingernail cleaner. Instead they are working on their boat, training, actually riding, looking at youtube videos, going about real life. A lot of people that are at the forefront of showing off their **** are doing so because they are that type of people, doesnt mean the others dont exist anymore.

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