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Old     (bob)      Join Date: Feb 2001       08-21-2003, 6:47 PM Reply   
todays poll about binding lube is a bit upsetting, cant believe there are that many people who dont give a crap about the water they are playing in. Dont you people understand if you dont protect it, it wont be there for you or your kids/family in the future. Also if you dont protect it the govt will regulate the hell out of it so no one can use it. Get smart people
Old    wakeboardjo            08-21-2003, 8:00 PM Reply   
Well we ride on a large public lake and usually use soap. Correct me if I'm wrong but anything that is water soluble is alright to use right? And we don't use soap on private lakes at competitions and such because(again I may be wrong) it promotes algae growth?
Old     (eternalshadow)      Join Date: Nov 2001       08-21-2003, 8:50 PM Reply   
Soaps that contain phosphates contribute to algal blooms, however most soaps today don't contain phosphates (at lest in Canada, and I think the US). It can also be said that many naturally found microorganisms in lake size ecosystems have the ability to break down small amounts of oils and other petroleum products significantly. Even so, why take the chance when there are many alternatives to use, lube and otherwise that work without added stress to the environment.
Old    deltahoosier            08-21-2003, 8:54 PM Reply   
Has anyone actually ran test samples on binding lube to back up the claim? Actually does a bottle of lube actually claim to be safe? Just wondering, because I do not know the answer.
Old    zanek            08-21-2003, 9:02 PM Reply   
ya...we took our hot tub kits at our cabin ( yes we have a hot tub at our cabin...SHOCK it every night or it gets green baybe )...and we did a hole bunch of tests...oil levle, PH, phosphate leves, minerals...and we found that w/ the "CWB SLIME" ( which says it's environmentally safe )...it didn't change much in the water...and when we put it in lake water the PH was so much lower in the lake water than the slime that the slimes components broke up in a matter of like 30 seconds!

Anways, but come on! If you wanna stop hurting the lakes get your BOAT OUT! And if you wanna save the air...stop breathing, china's people put out just as much polution ( like the person, not cars...your body ) as americas cars!
Old     (colorider)      Join Date: Jun 2001       08-21-2003, 9:15 PM Reply   
I have a feeling that the exhaust that ports directly into the water has much more contaminants then binding lube. Also, there is much more exhaust comming out of a boat then a boatload of people using binding lube can put in the water on a given day. If you are so concerned about the lake and its water quality, then you should get an electric boat to pull you.
Old     (lehmur)      Join Date: Oct 2001       08-21-2003, 9:28 PM Reply   
Does anyone think about where the soap you wash your car with goes? Mine goes right across the street into the Delta. Same place as all the oil and crap on the road. Same place where all the pesticides and farm run-off from the local farms and ranches go. Ask me if I think the Delta is going to be contaminated by a little dish soap? Yeah right.
Old    zanek            08-21-2003, 10:12 PM Reply   
ya... don't we all love pig headed stupid librals? who think that everything we do "ruins" the world! UH-HO now we better get control of volcainos, the weather...and the rest of mother nature! cause it KILLS ITSELF TOO! I think that people like that just need to shut up, cause no one wants to hear it, cause they're doing things "just as "awful" and omg just so "terrable!"
Old     (bob)      Join Date: Feb 2001       08-21-2003, 10:23 PM Reply   
so what im hearing is, since our exhaust is going into the water it doesnt matter what else we do to the environment??
Old     (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       08-21-2003, 10:34 PM Reply   
I'm not sure I really subscribe to the "we're hurting the environment this way, so we might as well hurt it that way as well" kind of thinking. However, I'm not a big tree hugger either. I just like to be aware of relatively painless steps I can take to reduce the harmful effects I might be having on the environment. I have no idea how big of an effect non-biodegradable binding lube can have, however, I think it's a good issue for discussion.

Rod, your question is the reason I put this poll question up. I was just contacted by a new company that had their binding lube "approved" by the EPA and endorsed by the Surf Rider Foundation. Although I've always thought binding lube is binding lube, I thought it was great the way this guy did something to make his product stand out in a pretty generic marketplace.
Old    rdierolf            08-21-2003, 11:48 PM Reply   
no were saying a little binding lube is nothing compared to the polution the water ALREADY recieves. do u want us to stop washing our cars, wakeboarding, and boating just because it harms the enviroment? the enviroment is going to be harmed no matter what you do. the future isnt going to be hamred because some people use semi-degredable binding lube, and if it is pigs will fly too.
Old     (kristian)      Join Date: Nov 2002       08-21-2003, 11:55 PM Reply   
Well I believe in using biodegradable lube(and saving the enviroment, to a certain degree). But here's a little bit of info that has caused me many a discussion. Average house hold washing up liquid (and most soaps) eat away at petrol. So which is worse Pertrol or soap, hhhmmmmmmm??????

(Message edited by kristian on August 21, 2003)
Old     (dococ)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-22-2003, 12:00 AM Reply   
Dave, thanks very much for the info. If I have a CHOICE (which I do, because this is America), why not do what is least harmful? We're not going to stop doing our sport, but why cause more damage than is necessary?
Some of you seem to be missing the point.
Come on Bryce, really... how old are you?
Old     (bob)      Join Date: Feb 2001       08-22-2003, 12:03 AM Reply   
Oh by no means am i a tree hugger but if there is a recycle bin down the hall at work, i dont get it why people cant put their cans there instead of being lazy and throwing them in the trash next to their desk?? Im sorry if you feel that way Richie BUT it is NOT true, there are so many things everyone can do to help or at least not hurt the environment any more. So you say "the enviroment is going to be harmed no matter what you do" so it doesnt matter if you throw trash out your window going down the road, huh. Well when i was a kid it wasnt unusual for most people to do this and the roads looked like hell. People smarted up and the roads today in most places look 10 times better then when i was a kid.
ANDREW do you know how many batteries id need to power my 240 hp electric motor for my boat and then how long would they last.
Old     (kristian)      Join Date: Nov 2002       08-22-2003, 12:08 AM Reply   
But serously, how much money would you save if there was such thing as an electric engine efficient enough to power a wakeboard boat. It would be a cool option. I guess people will have to stick with natural gas engine's for the moment to save some real money (It's also better for the enviroment).
Old     (bob)      Join Date: Feb 2001       08-22-2003, 12:13 AM Reply   
Bryce ? so im a "pig headed stupid libral" ? I think you need to fill in some of your profile and stop hiding behind your screen name. You have no clue what so ever about me braceee, the point was there are still people out there who just dont care AND maybe when you grow up you will find out how this affects you and your future freedoms. If people realy dont care about these little things what about things that do matter??
Thank you to those who were supporting me on this matter.
Old     (laptom)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-22-2003, 12:45 AM Reply   
Bob, batteries = weight = bigger wakes. What is the problem ?

Richie and Bryce, sorry guys for asking. But are you guys living in a small world or a world of your own?
Come on your guys, "he's poluting more so we can do it also" altitude.
Okay, I also use a boat with a big consuming American V8 in it. But I love wakeboarding more then the environment and I'm no saint. But if I can I will clean my car in destinated places and use lube. Doing the best I can without changing my life style.
Old     (colorider)      Join Date: Jun 2001       08-22-2003, 8:14 AM Reply   
Bob, I have no idea how many batteries it would take, but just imagine how much weight those would add and the WAKE it would produce.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe we should look into it
Old     (colorider)      Join Date: Jun 2001       08-22-2003, 8:18 AM Reply   
MIke (lehmur). Gee, can't wait to get into that delta water!!!!!!!!
Everyone else: Our lake is downstream from Rocky Flats nuclear plant. I think the water could break down cinder blocks so a little dish soap aint gonna hurt it.
Old     (toolfan)      Join Date: Jul 2003       08-22-2003, 8:23 AM Reply   
doesnt the soap act as a surfactant to break down the oils put out by our boats. anyway, lets try not to be hypocritical. no one should complain about polution as they themselves put an internal combustion engine in the same waters we drink from.
Old     (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       08-22-2003, 8:40 AM Reply   
Herbal Essence Body Wash - 24 oz - $6 at Costco.
50% mix with water in a spray bottle works great.
And, 100% biodegradable.
Old     (lehmur)      Join Date: Oct 2001       08-22-2003, 9:46 AM Reply   
Here's an idea. Why don't the binding lube companies lower their prices to attract more people that will use their products? It seems like they are going to some lengths to get approved by the EPA so they must care about the environment right. I'd bet the cost is a major factor to consumers when deciding how to lube their bindings. What does it cost to make environmentally safe slime?
I don't agree with the "it's already polluted so dump whatever you want in" idea either. I do however have a hard time believing that the amount of soap people use to lube bindings has any significant affect on the environment.

Can anyone produce a report that shows the environmental impact of the amount of soap used to lube a binding? I'd like to see it.

Andrew, I never said the Delta was clean it just has smooth water.
Old     (typhoon)      Join Date: Jul 2001       08-22-2003, 9:47 AM Reply   
use organic dish soap...problem solved.
Old     (scott44)      Join Date: Jun 2002       08-22-2003, 9:56 AM Reply   
Okay if you don't care about the envoironment how about caring about those bindings you just spent two or three hundred hard earned dollars on. Soap will eventually break them down and they will be useless
Old     (lehmur)      Join Date: Oct 2001       08-22-2003, 9:59 AM Reply   
How long does it take a binding to break down from soap?
Old     (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       08-22-2003, 10:10 AM Reply   
Probably depends on the soap Mike.
The impact from a mild soap is probably nill.
In fact, there is a chance that the soap helps because it will wash off oils from suntan lotion on your body and un-spent fuel on the water.
Either way, damage from normal wear and the sun probably DWARF any effects from a mild soap.
Old     (cbv)      Join Date: Sep 2002       08-22-2003, 10:11 AM Reply   
long after you've upgraded to a new pair of the freshest, newest, more comfortable yet tight bindings out there.

I know Im on my 3rd pair in as many summers!

I still have my 01 bindings in the garage that I used a lot of soap on and they still are good to go.
Old     (snead)      Join Date: Jul 2001       08-22-2003, 10:43 AM Reply   
Bottom line...binding lube $10.oo, Soap/Shaving Cream $0.99.

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!!!
Old     (rootc)      Join Date: Aug 2002       08-22-2003, 11:16 AM Reply   
Filling up the boat at the marina the other day and the attendant spilled some gas in the water. He started squirting a liquid on the water. He told me it was soap. They use it to break up the gas.

I don't know if this guy if full of BS, but it is possible that soap has a positive impact on the water.

Binding lube - $1.00 of product - $9.00 of profit.
Old     (supraman)      Join Date: Jan 2002       08-22-2003, 11:22 AM Reply   
Root,

They actually just made that practice illegal in Tennssee. The soap causes the oils to clump up and sink to the bottom, which looks "cleaner" from the boat because the slick on the water magically disappears. However, it's significantly worse for the ecosystem to concentrate that stuff on the bottom. Anyway, it's a bad practive.
Old     (noneya)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-22-2003, 11:50 AM Reply   
Heres an article about how we are all f-ing up the ocean, so if we can screw that up so bad people cant even get in it think about a smaller body like the lake. You dont have to go overboard but doing you part will help. Things like using a biodegradable lube, keeping the boat tuned and running well, keeping your trash in the boat and disposing properly on land.
What was said at the beginning is true if we keep messing up the lakes the gov't will come in and help us keep em clean, by kicking us off.
To tell the truth I didnt even read all these inane responses, what is the big deal about using slime? Its too expensive? Give me a break, I supply all the slime to everyone who rides on my boat, we put about 150 hours a year on the boat, I spend $20 a year on slime.

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/local/6589109.htm
Old    rdierolf            08-22-2003, 12:02 PM Reply   
no what im saying is a little binding lube isnt going to do sh*t to the water. its biodegradable. and even if it wasnt biodegredable, the amount used is so little it doesnt make a diffrence. what do u want us to do to make the water super clean? that means we would stop doing everything we already do on the lake. to make the water the cleanest that means every1 would stop going to the lake. this post wouldnt even exist.
Old     (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       08-22-2003, 12:15 PM Reply   
400 years! :-) Actually, I don't know how long it takes or even if it will break them down at all. I've heard several claims that it will dry out the rubber and will break down the glue, but I have never seen a binding that was a victim of this. Has anybody else? I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I've just never seen it myself.

Because of the lack of evidence, I tend to believe that most people's bindings probably die of natural causes long before the effects of soap catch up to them. Again, I'm just basing this on the lack of evidence to the contrary and I certainly could be wrong.
Old     (geoff_l)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-22-2003, 12:19 PM Reply   
"its biodegradable. and even if it wasnt biodegredable, the amount used is so little it doesnt make a diffrence."

Is there scientific proof for this? You know what the say about assumptions... People are most likely correct that the different "lubes" we use pale in comparison to the amount of pollutants/contaminants our boats produce. However, just because we are already degrading the water quality, that doesn't meant that you shouldn't do everything in your reasonable power to minimize the impact. What do you think the average person in your area cares more about? That you have a place to use your $50k boat and $1,000's of dollars worth of equipment, or that they have a clean, safe supply of water and/or public use area? I own a boat and I love wakeboarding, however, the environment will always come first for me.
Old     (craig_riddle)      Join Date: Apr 2003       08-22-2003, 12:25 PM Reply   
It seems the real question isn't being answered here. Is soap bad for the water? I don't care about the relative merits of 'we are already damaging it with the boat' if lube has fewer deleterious effects than soap I'll fork out $20 for it. I don't know about soaps effect on a lake but I know using soap in the deserts of Southern Utah is very bad for some of the local life. They make a big issue of it when you reserve your spot to bicycle the white rim trail near moab.
Old     (dococ)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-22-2003, 12:41 PM Reply   
Bob, unfortunately, I have no scientific studies at my hands to back this up, and I think that an environmental impact study as suggested by Mike is something that would be of interest to most of us. But here's one way to potentially think about it. If the Utah State Park Authority (or whoever is the overseeing body) has studied it and determined that soap is a big environmental issue for southern Utah ecosystems and wildlife habitats, then through what deductive process might one come to the believe that it somehow majically is NOT an issue in other types of ecosystems and habitats? I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just stating how I would tend to consider such questions, where the actual data does not seem to be readily available.
Old     (dococ)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-22-2003, 12:57 PM Reply   
Please forgive me, as I did not mean this time to direct my comment toward anybody in particular or single anybody out. I was more just thinking out loud about this discussion and some of the good points raised so far.
Old     (wakeon)      Join Date: Dec 2002       08-22-2003, 1:01 PM Reply   
Ride Solbounds.....no lube needed.



(Message edited by wakeon on August 22, 2003)
Old     (lehmur)      Join Date: Oct 2001       08-22-2003, 1:01 PM Reply   
Dave,
Would it be possible to get some of the information from the EPA that was used in approving that Slime? Would they have information on the adverse affects of soap in estimated amounts of wakeboard usage over time?

As far as bindings breaking down. That's about what I figured. I've never seen an actual Soap-Blowout myself nor have my friends. I get a kick out of everyone swearing that it will happen though.

For all those who want to do everything in your power to save your environment, if you stop using your boat it will help alot more than not using soap. Why do it halfway? It's like saying I help the environment on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays.
If the EPA decided to not allow boating on your lake due to problems caused by emissions would you get rid of your boat? Are you saying that you wouldn't try to change the decision? I find that hard to believe.

Why doesn't someone post instructions on how to make your own binding slime? Any chemists out there? I don't know how hard it is to make, but there sure aren't that many ingredients. Anyone?

Old     (rootc)      Join Date: Aug 2002       08-22-2003, 1:42 PM Reply   
Binding slime ingredients - KY Jelly and maybe some food coloring???
Old     (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       08-22-2003, 2:13 PM Reply   
Step 1: Drink a Coke
Step 2: Eat a package of Fun Dip
Step 3: Hawk a loogie on right binding
Step 4: Repeat Step 3 on left binding
Old     (rock_n_boardin)      Join Date: May 2003       08-22-2003, 2:33 PM Reply   
Does anyone dilute their lube? I go with 50% water and it seems to work great, saves $$$$$ and cuts the environmental risk by half. Damm I am good, I am going to send this to the tree huggers to show I care.

Of course I need to drive my gas guzzling truck to the post office to send my letter written on and wrapped with non recycled paper, delivered by a 747 too another gas guzzling postal truck. Just to tell them how good I am. Cool, seeya

Hmmmm hawk a loogie on my bindings? David you the man!! Of course I did use non biodegradable tooth paste this morning, is that a problem? What if I substitute beer for coke hmmmm would that compromise the mixture you suggest?
Old     (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       08-22-2003, 4:02 PM Reply   
I don't think that beer will give you the optimal gooey factor you're looking for in a binding lube.
Old     (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       08-22-2003, 4:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Does anyone dilute their lube? I go with 50% water and it seems to work great, saves $$$$$ and cuts the environmental risk by half. Damm I am good, I am going to send this to the tree huggers to show I care.
Actually, you wouldn't be cutting the risk by half...unless you only used half the bottle.

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the environments ability to repair itself. I don't buy into the notion that everything we do/use causes irreparable damage. The EPA is a great excuse to dig further into our pocket books.

B-
Old    cryft            08-22-2003, 4:55 PM Reply   
You people whine to much, I mean, we're humans, it's our duty to overpopulate the earth like ants swarming over an anthill. And if we destroy a few ecosystems along the way, we'll just throw some cement down and turn it into an oasis of urbanized splendor. Or, if we destroy the lakes, we'll just make a giant underground pool, with filters and all. And if that might be a real pain in the arse, who cares?, we'll all be dead then anyways...

ok, went too far, but had to do that...
Old     (cbv)      Join Date: Sep 2002       08-22-2003, 6:09 PM Reply   
How many people wakeboard in your area? Geez, Im in Florida and there are a minumal amount of 'boarders here verses the jet skis, tubers, fisher and others just playing around.

I believe the ecosystem does repair itself just fine, but that doesnt mean we cant help in whatever way we can. Im all for helping the ecosystem . . . as long as I get to wakeboard!
Old    rdierolf            08-22-2003, 8:08 PM Reply   
so exactly what is it that u want us to do then if we cant use binding lube?
Old    inadrummer            08-22-2003, 9:18 PM Reply   
i have one important fact for all of you who use biodegradable soap... it ONLY biodegrades on land. i just came back from a week long kayak trip to killarney in ontario (beautiful by the way) and they stressed to not use any soaps in the water including biodegradable soaps
Old    wakeboardjo            08-22-2003, 11:15 PM Reply   
Well my main post was just that some private lakes don't allow soaps, but they are small compared to an actual public lake. And I absolutely hate lube, it doesn't even feel like it helps me to get in my bindings, whereas soap and other "foamables" slide right in. I think lube is just overpriced and not very usefull.

Just my opinions though!
Old     (dococ)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-23-2003, 12:17 AM Reply   
This thread started out interesting but has gotten boring. Most people need something slimy to get into their bindings, some care enough to try to minimize the environmental impact, while others obviously don't give a sh*t. I'll fire one parting shot...
The idea that the ecosystem "repairs itself" is ridiculous and absurd. It's been proven by scientists all over the world that the earth's temperatures are rising. The ONLY people who dispute this fact are the current United States executive branch, other like-minded politicians, and the energy industry millionaire/billionnaire executive profiteers who assisted them in crafting their energy policy (which started with the US being the ONLY fully industrialized nation in the world to back out of the Kyoto treaty). As the earth is getting hotter, the sea levels are rising with unknown implications. Recent studies suggest that places like New York City may be in danger eventually of being underwater. Over half of the coral life in the gulf of Mexico has died off in the last 30 years and nobody knows why. Beach closings for surfers due to toxic ocean waters were virtually unheard of 30 years ago, now they occur regularly. These are just a couple examples, but the evidence is everywhere... and only a fool or somebody with ulterior (i.e. profit) motives would argue that it is not true.

So go wakeboarding and use whatever the h*ll you want to get into your bindings, but don't be an idiot and insist that the choices you make in life have no consequences. Don't sell yourself short like that. I'm going wakeboarding tomorrow. We'll burn a ton of gas and emit lots of carbon monoxide into the air. I'll be in the toxic-as-h*ll Norcal Delta, I'll be trying not to injest any of the water, I'll shower off as soon as I can when I'm done, I'll be mildly concerned about my health consequences while I'm in there, and I'll be aware that my wakeboarding does a teeny tiny bit to make the situation worse. We'll try to carpool to get out there, I'll bring my beer cans and plastic bottles home for recycling, and GEEZUS! I hope there is some environmentally friendly lube on the boat so I have one less thing to worry about! That's about the best I can do. Other realistic suggestions for minimizing impact are welcomed.

The ecosystem repairs itself... please... If it ever does, then that will occur by somehow wiping humans off the face of the earth.

Dave, thanks for your thoughtfulness in creating that original poll. If any of the EPA info that Mike spoke of becomes available, then many of us would appreciate seeing it. Maybe the Surfrider Foundation would be a place to get more info.
Bob, thanks for what you attempted to do with your post.
Goodnight, people.

"My friend says we're like the dinosaurs, and man we are... doing ourselves in much faster than they ever did!" - Perry Farrell
Old     (fogey)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-23-2003, 6:35 AM Reply   
I don't mind being told that binding lube is better for the environment than soap, or even being told I should use lube.

But it's pretty hypocritical to drive a gas-powered, oil-lubricated, exhaust- and bilge-discharging boat to create wakes that can cause shoreline erosion and then flame others with statements like "[I] cant believe there are that many people who dont give a crap about the water they are playing in," "Dont you people understand if you dont protect it, it wont be there for you or your kids/family in the future," and "Get smart people."

If the writer feels better by using lube, fine. If he wants to tell me to use lube too, that's okay. But if pure water is so important that he needs to castigate those who disagree, he might want to consider finding another sport. I believe his boat creates more pollution issues than a couple of squirts of soap do.
Old     (craig_riddle)      Join Date: Apr 2003       08-23-2003, 8:26 AM Reply   
doctor octogon, well stated.

http://www.bushrecall.org/petition/
Old    yearling            08-23-2003, 2:41 PM Reply   
For all the people telling us to stop using binding lube, YOUR PREACHING TO THE WRONG AUDIENCE! My freind always takes a s--t in the lake and pisses. I tell him to stop but hes not going to. No matter how much you say, there are always still going to be people using soap and binding lube.
Old    norcal_99            08-23-2003, 4:44 PM Reply   
Hey Doc, That's interesting stuff. New York City under water? Maybe someday we'll be wakeboarding on Lake Wall Street.

I'm still waiting for California to break off and become an island or sink.



Old     (bob)      Join Date: Feb 2001       08-24-2003, 11:32 PM Reply   
First of all im the original poster and want to get a few things straight: Im not saying buy expensive binding lube, just use something biodegradeable ( sorry Richie Dierolf but i can only do what i know works and until i do some research and find out that bio doesnt mean bio ill continue to believe it does). Second: yes i do use a boat with a V8 so since i do this does that mean i shouldnt throw my plastic and cans in the right bin or recycle my oil or throw my paper at work in the recycle bin or put my lawn debris in a seperate bin so it doesnt go to the same dump, because that is exactly what you (who are opposed to my ideas)are all saying ? Just because i use a boat i shouldnt care about the environment, wtf kind of thinking is that? Maybe i do use a boat and suv with a V8 but i bet in the long run i do more for the environment then many people who dont have these and every day dont care how their actions affect the third rock from the sun......................im done with this

(Message edited by bob on August 24, 2003)
Old     (sunsetterlx)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-25-2003, 2:34 AM Reply   
Maybe we should stop by the local bait shop on the way to the lake and pickup some slimy night crawlers. Drop a few in our bindings. Slide our feet right in. Supports the local economy and feeds the fish. Problem solved.
I am so smart...I am so smart...
Mark
Old     (wakeguru)      Join Date: Feb 2003       08-25-2003, 8:09 AM Reply   
"Oh but, binding lube is so expensive" from the same people that probably spend 1/2 of their paycheck on their car and clothes.

Doc & Bob - word.

Old    deltahoosier            08-25-2003, 9:34 AM Reply   
I tried to keep my mouth shut and probably should but I have a small word on the political nature this is taking.

Kyoto....

That is basically a Japanese word for we are banding together to screw America. The only countries that supported it and NEVER ratified it are countries that HATE America's econmic power. If Kyoto was so important then why don't the Euro's, Russia and the others go ahead and make their own little treaty and live by it. The reason is because it was a blatant attempt to screw America. Clinton did not even sign it or consider it until he was stepping away from office in his last week. You know the time when any good politicians lay little land mines for the opposing party taking office. Clinton knew Bush could not ratify such a Socialist spread the wealth to Europe and China document. He knew all you good little sheep would bitch and moan about it too if Bush did not sign it. We all know that anything that says it is for the enviroment is a blank check. We should do everything we can to screw our own Union Members and small businesses in the name of the enviroment. We should have signed it, even though that treaty gave a free pass to the largest nations on earth. Get real sheep. The US does more and spends more for the enviroment than about any country on earth. If you really care for the enviroment, you can start by getting rid of Gray. Remember MTBE. Go look at you gas pump. It still says it is in there. So, either the enviro's lied again about the impact of a substance to scare the people or Gray really did nothing again to help. By the way, Gray said he was getting rid of it and I could have sworn it was suppose to be phased out by now.

I do not fear the Rich and I do not fear the Poor, but, I do fear the Sheeple.

Old     (tdeneka)      Join Date: Aug 2002       08-25-2003, 1:31 PM Reply   
The sky is falling!! The sky is falling!! The sky is falling!!

I must be a fool . . .
Ecosystems do "repair themselves" even IF the damage/change is caused by human intervention.

IF the temperature is truly significantly rising; we ARE coming out of an ice age after all. It HAS been much warmer in pre-human history.

Venice has been sinking for years, but for different reasons, this is not a catastrophe. IF they flood, the flooding of our coasts will likely occer more slowly that this.

Bush-haters/Industry-haters are funny!

Hawaii is growing further out of the ocean!!! Must be the land-fills!!

If people are killing the coral, and we don't know why, doesn't that mean we don't know why?? How does that mean binding slime did it (among other things)??

Dying of cancer from smoking was unheard of 30 years ago too . . . detection, education??

We can't HURT the environment. We may be able to change it, significantly or not. The environment is the environment. Now having said that, it is silly to not do things that might help keep things the way we like them currently. But it is also silly to assume that the tiny little things, like binding slime, make much difference at all. Fix the big problems first, then see if the little ones warrent change.
Old     (wakeguru)      Join Date: Feb 2003       08-25-2003, 2:04 PM Reply   
Your right, ecosystems don't repair themselves they just change or adapt and there is nothing significant we can do about it.
Fish adapt, birds adapt and soon we will have to wear a chem suit to go wakeboard in the delta.
Pretty silly, just like the notion that the "big things" are comprised of numerous little things.
Screw it, I'm gonna fertilize the pavement and pour motor oil in the ditch from now on since it doesn't matter.
Old     (wakeon)      Join Date: Dec 2002       08-25-2003, 2:11 PM Reply   



THAT'S IT!!! Just use motor oil for binding lube.
$1.50 a quart!


Old     (rock_n_boardin)      Join Date: May 2003       08-25-2003, 2:34 PM Reply   
Environmental wackos SUCK!!! Who is this ELF. "Earth Liberation Front" Idiots, they go and vandalize SUVs in dealership lots. The latest is burning down a Hummer dealership, real smart you rocket scientists.

We don't like the pollution those Hummers cause, so let's go turn them into a highly toxic fire, causing probably double/triple "??" the pollution into the air, that all the Hummers burnt put together, would have ever caused on the road.

Yeah we showed them.......idiots.
Old     (craig_riddle)      Join Date: Apr 2003       08-25-2003, 2:53 PM Reply   
HaHaHa.. that name sounds like it came from Life of Brian

Brian Are you the Earth Liberation Front?
Reg F--- off.
Brian What?
Reg Earth liberation Front. (scoffs) We're the Liberation Front of Earth. Earth liberation Front, caw.
Brian Can I join your group?
Reg No. Piss off.
.
.
Reg Listen. If you really wanted to join the LFE, you'd have to really hate SUVs.
Brian I do.
Reg Oh yeah? How much?
Brian A lot!
Old     (tdeneka)      Join Date: Aug 2002       08-25-2003, 6:49 PM Reply   
^^^That's funny!!! I love that scene.
Old     (dlockett99)      Join Date: Apr 2002       09-02-2003, 1:42 AM Reply   
DAMN PIG HEADED STUPID LIBERALS!!!!!!!!

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