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Old     (tjb1080)      Join Date: Jun 2010       07-29-2015, 10:14 AM Reply   
Rule of thumb, Don't take diet and exercise advice from an overweight person and don't take financial advice from a homeless person.
So unless you own or have owned one of these boats or at the very least spend time in and behind both of them I probably wont take your advice very seriously. No offense.
Its time to create a build sheet and lock down a 2016 production slot I'm just not sure which way to go.

Contributing factors. (in order of importance)
1) Wakeboard wake
2) exterior look "lines"
2) interior look, feel and layout
3) surf wake
4) Dash and displays
5) maybe ordering another X-Star

Non contributing factors
1) price
2) dealership (both are great and close by)
3) other boats Malibu, Tige etc...

Thanks for your input WW forum people.
Old     (onlyinboards)      Join Date: Oct 2014       07-29-2015, 10:23 AM Reply   
Have you thought about looking at.....
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       07-29-2015, 10:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Non contributing factors
1) price
I suggest both then. Sorry, no real help, just a bump.
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       07-29-2015, 10:31 AM Reply   
I don't think you're going to find very many people that have spent significant time around a 2016 G23.

Having spent time in a 2014 G23 I can say this, the boat has an insane amount of space and is extremely well thought out. Cooler in the floor leaves tons of space under the floor. The rear lockers are large enough to fit any wake/surf board. The trash bin is in a great spot. Sounds pretty insignificant at face value, but it really makes a huge difference when you're in/around the boat. Not asking people to move out of the way constantly for drinks and such.

The electronics in the 2014 (which will differ from 2016) were a little frustrating in that you have to continuously switch screens to get back and forth from stereo to other controls. Makes it constantly cumbersome to manage the boat. A stereo remote mounted in the helm helps tremendously.

Last edited by boardjnky4; 07-29-2015 at 10:36 AM.
Old     (k2rider)      Join Date: Jun 2014       07-29-2015, 10:56 AM Reply   
Before we get into the crazy talk about all the extra space and storage, are you on a lake or is it day/weekend trip boat?

Last edited by k2rider; 07-29-2015 at 10:58 AM.
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       07-29-2015, 11:59 AM Reply   
I have been in both (obviously nota 16') No question the interior and wakeboard wake goes to the G. The dash and cockpit area on the X23 are not up to par as far as I'm concerned. Seems dull and not laid out real well.The exterior lines on both boats are nice, I may give a slight edge to the X23. The feel of the interior seating on the 23 is probably better and I like the rear surf seating. However the actual look and lines of the G interior are better to me.

Never been in the new X-star. Good luck.
Old     (Redheadd)      Join Date: Apr 2014       07-29-2015, 1:28 PM Reply   
Why don't you go to both dealerships since they are close and demo both 15's. Asking a question like this on the internet for a 140k purchase is not really sound idea. I mean who cares what other people like.
Old     (C130Herc)      Join Date: Jul 2013       07-29-2015, 1:39 PM Reply   
I just picked up my new 2016 G23. All the greatness of the previous Gs without the water spray and a cleaner wake! The new idrive touch-less screen is very easy to navigate and the new sea deck step on the rear cushion is very useful!
Old     (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: SF Bay Area       07-29-2015, 1:50 PM Reply   
Get the X23 & every time you see a G23 drive by, you will wish you got the G instead.
Get a G23 & there's no looking back. Ever.
Fact.
Old     (YYCBoarder)      Join Date: Apr 2013       07-29-2015, 2:56 PM Reply   
Since wakeboard wake was #1 in your list, I think the G would be the right decision.

I also can't speak to the 2016 but have a 2015 and the wakeboard wake is bigger than anything I've ever rode or seen. For full disclosure I was looking at the X23 when we purchased but didn't take it for a test. I prefer the look of the G and after the test ride I fell in love and didn't want to waste the MC dealer's time. (I also would have had to take a trip down to Phoenix for a test since our lakes were still frozen.)

The wake is so easy to keep clean up on both sides which I think is largely because of the flat hull. The X23 has a deep V that is awesome for surfing and handling chop but I think would be very weight sensitive for wakeboarding. (This opinion is just based on videos I watched and what I would expect. My last boat also had a deep v hull and that's what I found.)

Turning radius on the G is terrible - it's a tank. I've also never surfed anything better than the G (although I'm sure there are surf boats as good or better.)

Having all ballast under the floor is a plus, linc is easy to use, stereo on the 2015's kinda suck (for the cost anyways) but the JL this year should be awesome, and layout is great. We've had 10 people on the boat when doing watersports and it didn't feel cramped.

Styling is all personal preference so that's really your call. I like them both, they're just different.
Old     (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       07-29-2015, 6:14 PM Reply   
First off let me start by saying that wake world isn't a fan of any MC so you may get one sided response. Second I suggest a test drive back to back.

Thrid, I have ridden both and test drive them back to back. I own an 2015 X23. In Louisiana we don't have any CC dealers so that did play a huge role in me buying the X23 plus we got a great deal.

Now to the important part.

Contributing factors. (in order of importance)

1) Wakeboard wake - I would give a slight edge to the G as you can add a lot more weight and get a ginormous wake. However stock vs stock the X23 holds its own. It's a bigger version of the X25. I have ridden both but the G was a 2015. The stock weight wakeboard wake was super nice but I don't think that it was leaps and bounds better than the X23.


2) exterior look "lines" - I would have to give this to the X23. The hull have more style and curves. The hips in the rear really set the boat apart. To me the G looks like a big tank. It's very straight lined but to some that appeals to them. I love the pickle fork fronts and the way the X23 sits in the water.


2) interior look, feel and layout - the interior layout on both boats is great. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. The G has big rear lockers and the cooler in the floor. The X23 have the cooler in a seat and the rear surf seats which are awesome. The interior on the x23 is more plush that the G as CC tends to have harder seats. I have the deckadence flooring which is awesome. The G has seadek.


3) surf wake - people can say what they want but stock vs stock this goes to the X23. It's super simple to set up and very consistent. It's big and a lot of push. The Gs I have ridden have been ok on the goofy wave. The X23 goofy wave is incredible and I can easily ride 20 back. Any boat is going to throw a nice regular wave.


4) Dash and displays - considering the fact that both CC and MC both use Murphy systems they will both be pretty solid. The G doesn't have any secondary switches or gauges where as the X23 does. So if anything fails then your outta luck with the G. They both have JL systems now so they will be the same in that end. I do prefer the MC tower and bimini over the G.



5) maybe ordering another X-Star - the nex gel lines on the X-Star are killer. I think the X-Star is hands down the sexiest boat on the water.



I hope this helps. They are both great boats and at the end of he day it's all personal preference. Good luck. If I can be of any assistance feel free to shoot me a PM.

Here is mine


Starboard wave


Port wake
Old     (biggator)      Join Date: Jul 2010       07-29-2015, 6:19 PM Reply   
one factor not mentioned by Dave (nice X, btw) is storage. Does the X23 use plug & play like the Xstar? The G has all the weight under the floor and HUGE storage.. that's a nice bonus.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       07-29-2015, 7:44 PM Reply   
G23 is king as far as I am concerned.

I have ridden many boats of many sizes and have not seen a boat that matches the build quality or wake quality of the G series boats.


More importantly: what kind of wakeboard wake do you like?

The g23 is very much like the gen2 (gen 3 depending on who you ask) x star wake but even bigger without any additional weight.

I have no idea what the wakeboard wake on the x23 is like. Perhaps someone could pitch in
Old     (Bit)      Join Date: Aug 2014       07-30-2015, 7:11 AM Reply   
The G Series are the new X-Stars, just with a better Surf wake ;-).

But anyway, if you can.. then go and demo both.
Old     (tjb1080)      Join Date: Jun 2010       07-30-2015, 9:25 AM Reply   
[QUOTE=davez71;1918113]First off let me start by saying that wake world isn't a fan of any MC so you may get one sided response. Second I suggest a test drive back to back.

Thrid, I have ridden both and test drive them back to back. I own an 2015 X23. In Louisiana we don't have any CC dealers so that did play a huge role in me buying the X23 plus we got a great deal.

Now to the important part.

Contributing factors. (in order of importance)

1) Wakeboard wake - I would give a slight edge to the G as you can add a lot more weight and get a ginormous wake. However stock vs stock the X23 holds its own. It's a bigger version of the X25. I have ridden both but the G was a 2015. The stock weight wakeboard wake was super nice but I don't think that it was leaps and bounds better than the X23.


2) exterior look "lines" - I would have to give this to the X23. The hull have more style and curves. The hips in the rear really set the boat apart. To me the G looks like a big tank. It's very straight lined but to some that appeals to them. I love the pickle fork fronts and the way the X23 sits in the water.


2) interior look, feel and layout - the interior layout on both boats is great. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. The G has big rear lockers and the cooler in the floor. The X23 have the cooler in a seat and the rear surf seats which are awesome. The interior on the x23 is more plush that the G as CC tends to have harder seats. I have the deckadence flooring which is awesome. The G has seadek.


3) surf wake - people can say what they want but stock vs stock this goes to the X23. It's super simple to set up and very consistent. It's big and a lot of push. The Gs I have ridden have been ok on the goofy wave. The X23 goofy wave is incredible and I can easily ride 20 back. Any boat is going to throw a nice regular wave.


4) Dash and displays - considering the fact that both CC and MC both use Murphy systems they will both be pretty solid. The G doesn't have any secondary switches or gauges where as the X23 does. So if anything fails then your outta luck with the G. They both have JL systems now so they will be the same in that end. I do prefer the MC tower and bimini over the G.



5) maybe ordering another X-Star - the nex gel lines on the X-Star are killer. I think the X-Star is hands down the sexiest boat on the water.




Davez71 is Spot on with everything he said.
I agree right down the line.
Im a "Boat" wakebaorder to the core. Fully loaded, 78ft back, 23.2mph is my "happy place" and every time I get behind a friends G I just cant help but smile.
Then I get behind my Xstar and the joy goes away,
So I think Ill be ordering a G23. BUT I can say Ill be first inline for the Next XStar hopefully MC will just change it from the rub-rail down and leave everything else the same. That would make me happy.
Thanks for all the input.
A G23 might be taking up temporary residence on my doc, but I will not be taking down my MC banner!! lol
Attached Images
 
Old     (YYCBoarder)      Join Date: Apr 2013       07-30-2015, 11:25 AM Reply   
Congrats, I think that you're making the right decision. If you don't like the wakeboard wake on MC's flagship wakeboard boat you probably won't be happy with the wake on a hull that's was designed as a surf boat.

The best part of the G23 is that it has the easiest wakeboard wake to set up. Just add a little port weight to offset the prop rotation and you're done - there's no dialing it in.

They said that 2016 hull doesn't affect the wakeboard wake but you should make up your own mind on that. Let us know what you end up getting.
Old     (Paul_42186)      Join Date: May 2013       07-30-2015, 6:37 PM Reply   
I have rode behind many different boats and always liked the Mastercraft X-Star and X-2, until I rode behind a 2014 and 2015 G23. Nothing compares to the G23 for wakeboarding. The few times I have rode behind other Mastercrafts, X15, X25, X45, the wake did not seem as good for wakeboarding, maybe surfing, but I don't surf much.
Old     (Bamabonners)      Join Date: Jul 2011       07-30-2015, 9:05 PM Reply   
Just curious,...why no Malibu?
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       07-31-2015, 4:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamabonners View Post
Just curious,...why no Malibu?
Your only going to anger him. He said NO MALIBU DANGIT!!!!
Old     (rplogue7)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-31-2015, 5:34 AM Reply   
I heard x-stars don't surf well. However, I rode on a g23 yesterday, and I can say that the wakeboarding and surf wave was simply surreal. The air, and the length/height of the surf wave was just perfect
Old     (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       07-31-2015, 7:07 AM Reply   
Wakeworld it a funny place. Most people haven't ridden half the boats they say they have and just make blanket statements. Most people that comment don't even own the X23/G23.

The Xstar with GEN2 surfs pretty well. Its not X23 caliber but I would put it up against the G because I think the G lags behind the X23 on the surfing aspect.....

Wakeworld is now the home of the Supra/MB/Malibu bandwagon, G Lovers and anything MC haters....

Last edited by davez71; 07-31-2015 at 7:08 AM. Reason: spelling
Old     (YYCBoarder)      Join Date: Apr 2013       07-31-2015, 8:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by davez71 View Post
Wakeworld it a funny place. Most people haven't ridden half the boats they say they have and just make blanket statements. Most people that comment don't even own the X23/G23.

The Xstar with GEN2 surfs pretty well. Its not X23 caliber but I would put it up against the G because I think the G lags behind the X23 on the surfing aspect.....

Wakeworld is now the home of the Supra/MB/Malibu bandwagon, G Lovers and anything MC haters....
You put your own blanket statement here that everyone on wakeworld is a MC hater. lol - No offense - I'm only giving you a hard time.

I wouldn't doubt that the X23 surfs better but the OP said his #1 criteria is the wakeboard wake. Does your X23 have a better wakeboard wake than the X-star? IMO that would be the most useful information since the x-star is his reference.

I think once you get to this level you're really splitting hairs and for most of us it really doesn't matter. I'm not the best wakeboarder but there's nothing I can do behind my G that I can't behind a 10 year old malibu or supra. That said, I do get more height on the G.

BTW, I like your boat (so please take back the comment that we're all MC haters.)
Old     (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       07-31-2015, 8:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by YYCBoarder View Post
You put your own blanket statement here that everyone on wakeworld is a MC hater. lol - No offense - I'm only giving you a hard time.

I wouldn't doubt that the X23 surfs better but the OP said his #1 criteria is the wakeboard wake. Does your X23 have a better wakeboard wake than the X-star? IMO that would be the most useful information since the x-star is his reference.

I think once you get to this level you're really splitting hairs and for most of us it really doesn't matter. I'm not the best wakeboarder but there's nothing I can do behind my G that I can't behind a 10 year old malibu or supra. That said, I do get more height on the G.

BTW, I like your boat (so please take back the comment that we're all MC haters.)
I think we can all agree that WW is not a fan of MC. You on the other hand are one of the few.

I think personally the wake n the Xstar and the X23 are different. The Star will handle a lot more weight than the X23 due to the hull shape. I don't own a star so I can only comment on the time that I ridden one. The wake is great on the Xstar and I feel that I get the same amount of air behind the G, star or X23.

There is no doubt that the G wake is bigger, Size doesn't always matter when it comes to wakes . For whatever reason the Stars wake isn't as big as the Gs but it is super poppy IMO and it boots you. That is How my X23s wake it. Its a beefed up X25 wake that is supper poppy..

IF Wakeboarding was my main concern then I would have G or Xstar, and the difference between the two is looks and layout but I enjoy surfing and I want a boat that has a good rough water ride as well and the X23 is awesome for rough water.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       07-31-2015, 8:50 AM Reply   
I'm not an MC "hater", I just think Nautique took the crown.

I used to wish for the picklefork Xstar. Now I wouldn't touch the new gen based solely on the existence of the g23 (FYI not a g21 fan here)

Yea it's not as stylish or good looking as any MC, but then again, it's more about wakeboarding than it is making a statement.

And it has more to do with wake shape than just straight up hang time.
Old     (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       07-31-2015, 9:19 AM Reply   
I'm not sure where people think everyone hates MC on this site? I really like Wakeworld just have to sort thru some stupid posts sometimes no big deal. Get stupid posts on the Mc and Bu sites also.

As for the G best thing about it is u can load that thing up and the wake just gets bigger and bigger and is so easy and forgiving to hit! I've ridden plenty of stars new and old and can tell u they get big also but not nearly as user friendly to hit them! And in my opinion there just isn't another boat that is as ergonomic as a g23 either! Storage, seating layout, size, it's got it all! Only thing I'd say the star or x23 has on the g is the 7.4 motor. I much prefer that motor over the supercharged PCM. Something about that blown motor long term scares me! If I do ever buy a G it's not gonna be a supercharged version! It'll be a 2014+ 450hp.
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       07-31-2015, 12:13 PM Reply   
OP- Exactly how important is the wakeboard wake? Would you say that having the absolute top wakeboard wake is more important than all of the other things combined?? Criteria 1 goes to the G obviously. The rest of your wants, go to the X23 IMO. The wakeboard wake on the X23 is very nice. It is, however, more abrupt, and is a no go for low speeds (under 21mph). From 21 up, it's an excellent wake. Transition is on the short side, and it is very vert. I have found the G23 to be the same way, if it is fully loaded, and running 20-21.5 mph. Anything above that, and the G23 grows a longer transition, and mellows out the ramp. It really makes for a huge meaty wake, that is easier on the knees. It is the perfect blend of huge, meaty, solid, and forgiving, all rolled into one. The only thing I don't like about the G23 wake, is that it really hurts if you come up a foot short. The G has a pretty good size ramp on the inner portions of the wake, and if you come up short, it is like hitting a wall. It hardly ever happens to me, but I always cringe when I see that I am going to come up just short!

I haven't owned a G23, but a close friend has one, and I wakeboard it 2-3x per week. I have owned an X23, and I currently own a G21. This years boat (X23) sold earlier than I expected, but the price was right, and the local dealer had a very nice G21 at the right price........ I put 79 hours on the X23, and I am at about 25 hours on the G21. I am stuck with making the same decision as you are...... The G21 is temporary, just to finish out the year. I need to decide if I want to order a G23, or an X23 for next year. I am only an intermediate wakeboarder, and I am just as happy on the X23 wake, as I am the G23 wake. If I was a pro, I am sure I would want the G23 wake every day, and twice on Sunday. I also surf quite a bit, and the "out of box" surf wave on the X23 is better. There is also a ton of "little things" that I miss about my MC...... I absolutely love both boats, and I am really struggling with the decision. I have had MCs for the last 6 years, and I think I will order the G23, just to give it a full year. Next year maybe jump back to the X23. Who knows.

I don't think you can lose either way, unless you are a pro wakeboarder, or have problematic knees.
Old     (OneCent)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-01-2015, 6:29 AM Reply   
For 2016 you get new Engines - i think the new 6.2l direct injection from PCM could be super nice for a G23.
Old     (RideGull)      Join Date: Apr 2012       08-01-2015, 6:58 AM Reply   
G23 all the way.
Wakeboard wake is obviously great.
Redesigned transom and NSS for better surf wave.
New engine for the G.
More storage in the G
New touch screen with dial control is amazing. I used one yesterday. You can control nearly everything with the dial so you wont have to mess with a touch screen while driving or if your hands are wet. I was very worried when i heard they were introducing touch screens as i have never been a fan of those in boats, but the dial control makes it so easy.
Stereo is definitely better than previous years. The upgraded stereo option with Wavefront sounds incredible.

I also found this interesting:
http://wakemojo.com/wakesurf-boat-wa...gths-measured/

Once you go to a G, you will never go back.
Old     (tjb1080)      Join Date: Jun 2010       08-01-2015, 11:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamabonners View Post
Just curious,...why no Malibu?
I can text the owners of both the CC and MC dealerships here.
I have to use a GPS to find the Malibu dealer. lol

So short answer... Relationship I have after 20 years of buying boats from these two dealerships.
Old     (MarkMason)      Join Date: Feb 2014       08-03-2015, 9:01 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixable View Post
OP- Exactly how important is the wakeboard wake? Would you say that having the absolute top wakeboard wake is more important than all of the other things combined?? Criteria 1 goes to the G obviously. The rest of your wants, go to the X23 IMO. The wakeboard wake on the X23 is very nice. It is, however, more abrupt, and is a no go for low speeds (under 21mph). From 21 up, it's an excellent wake. Transition is on the short side, and it is very vert. I have found the G23 to be the same way, if it is fully loaded, and running 20-21.5 mph. Anything above that, and the G23 grows a longer transition, and mellows out the ramp. It really makes for a huge meaty wake, that is easier on the knees. It is the perfect blend of huge, meaty, solid, and forgiving, all rolled into one. The only thing I don't like about the G23 wake, is that it really hurts if you come up a foot short. The G has a pretty good size ramp on the inner portions of the wake, and if you come up short, it is like hitting a wall. It hardly ever happens to me, but I always cringe when I see that I am going to come up just short!

I haven't owned a G23, but a close friend has one, and I wakeboard it 2-3x per week. I have owned an X23, and I currently own a G21. This years boat (X23) sold earlier than I expected, but the price was right, and the local dealer had a very nice G21 at the right price........ I put 79 hours on the X23, and I am at about 25 hours on the G21. I am stuck with making the same decision as you are...... The G21 is temporary, just to finish out the year. I need to decide if I want to order a G23, or an X23 for next year. I am only an intermediate wakeboarder, and I am just as happy on the X23 wake, as I am the G23 wake. If I was a pro, I am sure I would want the G23 wake every day, and twice on Sunday. I also surf quite a bit, and the "out of box" surf wave on the X23 is better. There is also a ton of "little things" that I miss about my MC...... I absolutely love both boats, and I am really struggling with the decision. I have had MCs for the last 6 years, and I think I will order the G23, just to give it a full year. Next year maybe jump back to the X23. Who knows.

I don't think you can lose either way, unless you are a pro wakeboarder, or have problematic knees.

What are the things that you miss about your X23?
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       08-03-2015, 9:45 AM Reply   
When people say a wake such as the X23 is a no-go under 21mph, are you talking zero ballast or stock ballast or what? And at what line lengths?
Old     (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       08-03-2015, 11:25 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebordr11 View Post
When people say a wake such as the X23 is a no-go under 21mph, are you talking zero ballast or stock ballast or what? And at what line lengths?
I don't get why people say that. We have 75 hours on our X23 and with Zero ballast I'm able to get a nicely shaped wake for my nephew at 19 mph. I have found that its better to run Zero Center tab and Zero ballast at 60'.

However with ballast this ill be a no go. But personally some that is going to ride that slow is a beginner and doesn't need ballast.
Old     (skiboarder)      Join Date: Oct 2006       08-03-2015, 11:29 AM Reply   
The ol Ferrari vs. Lambo Argument. You will never get a final answer. They are both top-tier boats.
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       08-03-2015, 12:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by davez71 View Post
I don't get why people say that. We have 75 hours on our X23 and with Zero ballast I'm able to get a nicely shaped wake for my nephew at 19 mph. I have found that its better to run Zero Center tab and Zero ballast at 60'.

However with ballast this ill be a no go. But personally some that is going to ride that slow is a beginner and doesn't need ballast.
Exactly. I can't believe people think you need to put ballast in a boat for a beginner, or for an intermediate who wants to try a new trick at slower speeds like 19/20... the wake is bigger when you go slower anyway...

Glad we got that cleared up - I hope that is the case for tiges, supremes, MBs and the like too - with no ballast and a tab I can't believe you can't make a clean wake.

Back to the thread... Sounds like you want an X23. If money was no object and I had the cash for gas I'd be in a G21 - but that's just me.
Old     (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       08-03-2015, 12:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiboarder View Post
The ol Ferrari vs. Lambo Argument. You will never get a final answer. They are both top-tier boats.
I think this is the best way too look at these boats. they are both the best in class and you cant go wrong with either.
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       08-03-2015, 4:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkMason View Post
What are the things that you miss about your X23?
Mostly the "little things"... Only big thing, is the surf wave, although, the G21 still has an excellent surf wave.

This stuff just adds up, and you don't really notice it, until it's gone-
Clamping board racks
Trailerable with tower down, and having over tower cover
Can swing racks in with boards on
Racks fit any board
Easier Bimini
Rotary audio control at helm, with zone control. (LINC control sucks in this aspect.)
Audio system that sounds better than an 87 Cavalier (thankfully they are going to JL in 16)
Transom lounge
Gullwing seats in bow are nice for more storage up there
Much more comfortable seating, especially in the corners, and the bow.
2x faster filling and emptying of ballast
Ultra cool vinyl compared to what is in the G
Much smoother and drier ride
Better step for hoping on or off the bow. (Only noticed this because 2 people have fallen stepping of the front of the G since I got it.)

Now, will all of that said, I am still liking the G21. Fortunately, the 16 G23 addresses a bunch of this stuff as well. It is an awesome machine, and it is designed to be a workhorse. It is very utilitarian, and for good reason. The build quality, and wakes, are top of their game. They just don't go as far with the "little things".
Old     (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-03-2015, 8:12 PM Reply   
You aren't weighting your 21 right if u think the x23 has a better surf wave... That thing is the tallest surf wave with the most push I've ever seen
Old     (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-03-2015, 8:15 PM Reply   
Also the 21 has debatably the best wakeboard wake on the market... Can't say I have heard anything about he x23 which seems to be marketed as more surf specific (which seems mastervraft is starting to market themselves as and less of a wakeboat company it seems) they don't have any true core wakeboard boats just their whole line is multisport or sport specific.. Maybe that's just me tho... Well I Guess the new style star was supposed to be that but it's gotten destroyed by the g and malibus wake boats in sales
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       08-04-2015, 5:08 AM Reply   
Eh I am underwhelmed about the hype surrounding the 21 wake. I much prefer the 23 wake. It is not much bigger but has a much better shape. The lip on the 21 wake is obnoxious for a wake that big IMO (and I like lippy wakes)
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       08-04-2015, 6:44 AM Reply   
Well, I just weight with stock ballast these days. I'm done messing with bags. In that regard, the X23 is better out of the box.

I would have to agree with simplej. If I had to choose a wakeboard wake, it would be the G23. NCRS setting will help knock the crazy lip off the 21 wake, but it doesn't get it quite as good as the G23. Fortunately for me, I like the wakeboard wake on all three boats. If I had to pick only one, I would have to go with the G23.
Old     (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: SF Bay Area       08-05-2015, 10:27 AM Reply   
New video of the G23/25 with much more detail:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=06GQAmlxLbQ
Old     (beg4wake)      Join Date: Aug 2012       08-06-2015, 8:14 AM Reply   
Here's my opinion for what it's worth....I too have been looking at both boats and I think the G23 is going to get my money. Many of the small niches that go to the X23 (and Mastercraft in general), should all be addressed with the new 2016 model G. Not only does it get a new JL Audio system, but it also gets the JL Wavefront system which I've heard sounds amazing and is specific to Nautique! I still don't know about the JL tower speakers but I'll just order mine with just the prep kit and throw some Wetsounds up there. The water spray at surf speeds is said to be taken care of with the new hull design. Not to mention a better surf wave which I am guessing will be on par if not better than the X23 (as for the '15 models, I do have to give that to the X23 since I am goofy and the starboard surf wave is better on the X...barely!). Plus the ability of surf side transfers being quick and able to be controlled by the surfer looks promising. As far as your #1 criteria....this will hands down go to the G23! Also, the X23 does have bags in the rear storage lockers so that will take up space, although, even though they aren't needed, I will probably be adding bags to the G23 anyways for days when it's just the old lady and I and we wanna surf. I do like the looks of the rear seats on the X23, however, the owner of the one I've ridden behind did say that some people complain about the fact that they take away from being able to lay out on the sun pad when chilling. Two things that will go to the X23 however, are comfort, and the clamp racks. While I do think the G's interior is way more ergonomic, the X's interior is simply more plush and comfortable (not a big deal to me however). Although the new helm seat for the G also looks great! Clamp style racks and the option to add an additional vertical rack for extra boards are two things that the X definitely have over the G. I will surely have to add surf pockets to the bimini or design my own style of vertical board racks.
Old     (all2matt)      Join Date: Apr 2015       08-06-2015, 8:33 AM Reply   
It seems to me that mastercraft designed their boat to go after the 50+ dad, with all the billet/metal like a hot rod and the hips like a '57 chevy (hotrod). So if your into driving a Hotrod then MC is definitly going to astetically fit your profile of style where as Nauti seems to be going after the modern sports car type look. I know for me Id rather have a Nissan GTR than a '68 Chevelle SS but there are ALOT of people who would go the opposite way.
Old     (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       08-06-2015, 8:58 AM Reply   
I think from the looks department the X23 takes the Crown. The G is just a big square tank and then for 2016 is almost looks like the front hull is an add on after the fact. The G is a great boat and had there been a dealer in Louisiana I may have giving them a second thought but I wouldn't discount the X23.

The looks and interior blow the G out the water. I do like how the cooler/trashcan are in the ground as that gives you space. I'm not the biggest fan of seadek as I prefer the deckadence over it and the G has a lot of it. The G is notwhere near as comfortable as the X23. The X23 is plush and everyone that has been on my X23 tells me constantly how conformable it is and how well the ride is. The X23 has a way better rough water ride because the V extends through the Hull where the G is flat in the rear (hence the great wakeboard wake) and that make a world of difference.

The OP cant go wrong with either boat, it all comes down to personal preference. I really don't see how you could compare the X23 to a old hot rod if anything I think it would be the other way around. The old hot rods were BIG, and Plain(G). The new Sports cars a sleek and flashy(X23). But hey that just my take.......
Old     (biggator)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-06-2015, 9:25 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by beg4wake View Post
Here's my opinion for what it's worth....I too have been looking at both boats and I think the G23 is going to get my money. Many of the small niches that go to the X23 (and Mastercraft in general), should all be addressed with the new 2016 model G. Not only does it get a new JL Audio system, but it also gets the JL Wavefront system which I've heard sounds amazing and is specific to Nautique! I still don't know about the JL tower speakers but I'll just order mine with just the prep kit and throw some Wetsounds up there. The water spray at surf speeds is said to be taken care of with the new hull design. Not to mention a better surf wave which I am guessing will be on par if not better than the X23 (as for the '15 models, I do have to give that to the X23 since I am goofy and the starboard surf wave is better on the X...barely!). Plus the ability of surf side transfers being quick and able to be controlled by the surfer looks promising. As far as your #1 criteria....this will hands down go to the G23! Also, the X23 does have bags in the rear storage lockers so that will take up space, although, even though they aren't needed, I will probably be adding bags to the G23 anyways for days when it's just the old lady and I and we wanna surf. I do like the looks of the rear seats on the X23, however, the owner of the one I've ridden behind did say that some people complain about the fact that they take away from being able to lay out on the sun pad when chilling. Two things that will go to the X23 however, are comfort, and the clamp racks. While I do think the G's interior is way more ergonomic, the X's interior is simply more plush and comfortable (not a big deal to me however). Although the new helm seat for the G also looks great! Clamp style racks and the option to add an additional vertical rack for extra boards are two things that the X definitely have over the G. I will surely have to add surf pockets to the bimini or design my own style of vertical board racks.
Careful with Wetsounds.. with the bigger ones - you can't swing the board racks in.
Old     (beg4wake)      Join Date: Aug 2012       08-06-2015, 9:39 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggator View Post
Careful with Wetsounds.. with the bigger ones - you can't swing the board racks in.
Oooo...good call. Thanks for the heads up! I'll have to check into that
Old     (all2matt)      Join Date: Apr 2015       08-06-2015, 11:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by davez71 View Post
I think from the looks department the X23 takes the Crown. The G is just a big square tank and then for 2016 is almost looks like the front hull is an add on after the fact. The G is a great boat and had there been a dealer in Louisiana I may have giving them a second thought but I wouldn't discount the X23.

The looks and interior blow the G out the water. I do like how the cooler/trashcan are in the ground as that gives you space. I'm not the biggest fan of seadek as I prefer the deckadence over it and the G has a lot of it. The G is notwhere near as comfortable as the X23. The X23 is plush and everyone that has been on my X23 tells me constantly how conformable it is and how well the ride is. The X23 has a way better rough water ride because the V extends through the Hull where the G is flat in the rear (hence the great wakeboard wake) and that make a world of difference.

The OP cant go wrong with either boat, it all comes down to personal preference. I really don't see how you could compare the X23 to a old hot rod if anything I think it would be the other way around. The old hot rods were BIG, and Plain(G). The new Sports cars a sleek and flashy(X23). But hey that just my take.......

This is what I see when I see a mastercraft, so i probably shouldvs said muscle car and not hotrod.

Last edited by all2matt; 08-06-2015 at 11:07 AM.
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       08-06-2015, 11:23 AM Reply   
^^ Which is exactly why I can't get into the current gen of mastercraft boats. I really don't like the hip in the rear of the boat.
Old     (all2matt)      Join Date: Apr 2015       08-06-2015, 11:27 AM Reply   
and the G23 maybe more like this:


Old     (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-06-2015, 12:48 PM Reply   
Just sayin.... and i do own one of these 3 cars.
Attached Images
   
Old     (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: SF Bay Area       08-06-2015, 12:57 PM Reply   
Id say more like:
Attached Images
 
Old     (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: SF Bay Area       08-06-2015, 1:06 PM Reply   
....
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Old     (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       08-06-2015, 1:17 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by alans View Post
Just sayin.... and i do own one of these 3 cars.
To me the X23 favors the Ferrari and Porsche cars. the G for sure favors the Roles Royce.

In the words of Nicholas cage from gone in 60 seconds "everybody has a G, and they are self indulgent wieners." However with the X23 ,you would be a connoisseur!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPS02EFgdfE
Old     (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       08-06-2015, 1:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by all2matt View Post

This is what I see when I see a mastercraft, so i probably shouldvs said muscle car and not hotrod.
IDK about you guys but there is nothing sexier that a 67 Convertible Vette 427. Talk about class....
Old     (dvsone79)      Join Date: Dec 2012       08-06-2015, 2:17 PM Reply   
I've been in and behind two G23s, and a G25. If I had the money, the G23 would be my next boat. To be fair I haven't ridden behind a X23 yet but I have been behind a star and the wake was underwhelming. If MCs flagship wakeboarding boat isn't up to G standards then I don't see how the X23 could be.

That said, why on earth has CC not gotten rid of those God-awful bungee cords on the board racks? My old '99 205v has clamping board racks, FFS.

I will also say that the X23 looks better. But looks aren't very important to me.

Oh, and I keep hearing it doesn't handle well and drives like a tank. When I drove one pulling a friend I was able to keep it going in a straight line with zero problems! Which is all that really matters to me...
Old     (99ProAir)      Join Date: May 2015       08-06-2015, 4:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by davez71 View Post
IDK about you guys but there is nothing sexier that a 67 Convertible Vette 427. Talk about class....
The picture is of a 1970 - 1972 vintage, not a 1967, but I get what you mean.
Old     (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-07-2015, 5:56 AM Reply   
I think the fact that the wakeboard wake was your number 1 deciding factor should tell you to look no further than the G23... Its THE boat to have in wakeboarding for a reason and the wake will absolutely destroy anything else out there. I made the switch to a G21 earlier this summer and have to say I could not be happier.

The one valid complaint that people had about the G was fuel consumption was pretty heavy the first year of production.. but I will say since going to the 2:1 ratio they are on par with and in some cases way better than other boats on the market. I used to really like mastercraft in the OG xstar days but I don't really understand anything they are doing these days including wonky marketing. Some guy on here posted pics of the x23 wakeboard wake and it wasn't that impressive to me, at least with the G you know you will get the best wake ever made and the resale is great on them because everyone knows it.

Also the 2016 G is going to have surf select which is exclusive to nautique or Malibu and wont event be an option with the Mastercraft... this may be something to consider for resale kind of like people that bought malibus without surf system got killed on resale. Recently also at a local board fest they actually measured all the surf wakes of different boats and the G23 was taller and longer than any other, even centurions etc. I would demo both but if the prices are similar idk how anyone can justify anything other than a G series when looking at all things objectively. I think a lot of the G complaints are just from people who are more brand loyal than actually don't like the boat.
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       08-07-2015, 5:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by migs View Post
....
That is a nice looking boat
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       08-07-2015, 6:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by superair502 View Post

Also the 2016 G is going to have surf select which is exclusive to nautique or Malibu and wont event be an option with the Mastercraft... this may be something to consider for resale kind of like people that bought malibus without surf system got killed on resale. Recently also at a local board fest they actually measured all the surf wakes of different boats and the G23 was taller and longer than any other, even centurions etc. I would demo both but if the prices are similar idk how anyone can justify anything other than a G series when looking at all things objectively. I think a lot of the G complaints are just from people who are more brand loyal than actually don't like the boat.
Well, to be fair, that G was running well above stock ballast. Many of the other boats, including the X23, were running stock weight only.
Old     (Bit)      Join Date: Aug 2014       08-07-2015, 6:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by superair502 View Post
Also the 2016 G is going to have surf select which is exclusive to nautique or Malibu and wont event be an option with the Mastercraft...
Don't forget Tigé.

Well, Surf select is not bad, but, imho, more then Switch side is not realy necessary.
Old     (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-07-2015, 11:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixable View Post
Well, to be fair, that G was running well above stock ballast. Many of the other boats, including the X23, were running stock weight only.
I don't know anything about that just the results... I do know he has wakeboard wake as the number 1 deciding factor and the G will destroy anything in mastercrafts lineup and I don't even think that's debateable... The new x star is great when clean but that when I have rode it was the problem... Perfect driver, no wind etc and it may be comparable but the X23 can't sniff the G23 out of the box wakeboarding. If he was looking for a pure surf boat I think the X23 vs G23 might be more of a comparison but since he's looking more at wakeboarding I don't see how it can even be a debate.
Old     (tjb1080)      Join Date: Jun 2010       08-09-2015, 8:23 AM Reply   
So I decided the 2016 G was the way to go and contacted my local dealer basically saying "lets do it"
The only upgrade I asked for was the 450hp engine. (no tower speakers no sparkle gellcoat)
So they came back at $145,000!! Not exactly what I was expecting.
I know I said price was not an issue but dam I was thinking more in the 120k range.
Anyway the great guys at Texas MasterCraft put me in touch with a couple pros that ride for MC (they will remain nameless) They each spent a few min on the phone telling me exactly how they weigh down there Xstars. And YES, they both agreed the wake can go bad quickly if its not properly balanced,, But holy heck, when I went out and did exactly what they said it was the biggest and cleanest I had ever had it. I know, I know.. any idiot can get a G to clean up. But I really like my Xstar and now I like it even more AND i dont have to drop another 50k+ on a new boat.
Anyway, thanks for all the input and opinions but looks like Ill be keeping my XStar for at least one more Season.
Old     (djsauer)      Join Date: Feb 2015       08-09-2015, 11:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjb1080 View Post
So I decided the 2016 G was the way to go and contacted my local dealer basically saying "lets do it"
The only upgrade I asked for was the 450hp engine. (no tower speakers no sparkle gellcoat)
So they came back at $145,000!! Not exactly what I was expecting.
I know I said price was not an issue but dam I was thinking more in the 120k range.
Anyway the great guys at Texas MasterCraft put me in touch with a couple pros that ride for MC (they will remain nameless) They each spent a few min on the phone telling me exactly how they weigh down there Xstars. And YES, they both agreed the wake can go bad quickly if its not properly balanced,, But holy heck, when I went out and did exactly what they said it was the biggest and cleanest I had ever had it. I know, I know.. any idiot can get a G to clean up. But I really like my Xstar and now I like it even more AND i dont have to drop another 50k+ on a new boat.
Anyway, thanks for all the input and opinions but looks like Ill be keeping my XStar for at least one more Season.
That's awesome news for you! I'm curious, how did they say they weigh theirs that worked well for you? What speed and rope length also?
Old     (biggator)      Join Date: Jul 2010       08-10-2015, 6:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjb1080 View Post
So I decided the 2016 G was the way to go and contacted my local dealer basically saying "lets do it"
The only upgrade I asked for was the 450hp engine. (no tower speakers no sparkle gellcoat)
So they came back at $145,000!! Not exactly what I was expecting.
I know I said price was not an issue but dam I was thinking more in the 120k range.
Anyway the great guys at Texas MasterCraft put me in touch with a couple pros that ride for MC (they will remain nameless) They each spent a few min on the phone telling me exactly how they weigh down there Xstars. And YES, they both agreed the wake can go bad quickly if its not properly balanced,, But holy heck, when I went out and did exactly what they said it was the biggest and cleanest I had ever had it. I know, I know.. any idiot can get a G to clean up. But I really like my Xstar and now I like it even more AND i dont have to drop another 50k+ on a new boat.
Anyway, thanks for all the input and opinions but looks like Ill be keeping my XStar for at least one more Season.
You know that you can negotiate, right? like.. a lot.
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       08-10-2015, 6:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggator View Post
You know that you can negotiate, right? like.. a lot.
Some people can, some people can't. It's like this whole thread started with the OP waiting to send that punchline conclusion.

Seriously though, glad you are getting it dialed. Post pics of that wake and you ripping it!!
Old     (tjb1080)      Join Date: Jun 2010       08-10-2015, 10:04 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggator View Post
You know that you can negotiate, right? like.. a lot.
Factory tanks Full, Gen2 Bags in the back 3/4 full, Gen2 Bags in the front 100% EMPTY.
Reverse the rear seat, put the filler cushion and hard plastic gap filler in, then put a 350-450bs fat sack in that spot. Also change your auto launch setting to the highest speed possible for the plates to retract. Factory settings have them retract at 16mph you can move them all the way up to 21mph.
78feet rope length. 32.1mph.. depending on wind and water flow you might need to go a little faster up to 33mph. Yes, the bow will ride high just deal with it. But be sure your driver knows to outrun the rooster tail because it will be big.
One thing both guys told me is that they keep a 150lbs fat sac with handles in the boat at all times. Makes it super easy to move around to fine tune the wake. This has probably been the best tip i got. I actually take it with me when i ride with other guys now. They also said if your low on gas or are riding with just a driver that a fat sac on the floor helps a lot. But if your gas tank is full and you have a few people with you there is no need for extra wight on the floor.

You can see in this picture where Harley has a lime green fatsac sitting in the spot i explained above. For the MC throwdown they used lead on the floor so it was not visible to the cameras.
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Old     (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: SF Bay Area       08-10-2015, 10:27 AM Reply   
Is that a typo or are you serious about the 32.1 mph?
Old     (djsauer)      Join Date: Feb 2015       08-10-2015, 10:45 AM Reply   
its gotta be 23.1 right?
Old     (Jmaxymek)      Join Date: Feb 2012       08-10-2015, 10:50 AM Reply   
Was Randall Harris giving you speed advice?
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       08-10-2015, 10:52 AM Reply   
I know it beats buying a new boat, but it seriously shouldn't be that hard to dial that wake in.

That being said, I have also heard that there should be ZERO bow weight. Like not even a person.

If you want another good resource. Hit up Mike Toler at Charlotte Ski Boats. He's on facebook, you should be able to find him. He's on his second X-Star and has spent a lot of time dialing it in. He runs A LOT of lead in the boat. Mostly under the seats. He's the one that told me no weight in the bow at all. He seriously won't let anyone ride up there when pulling wakeboarders.

Last edited by boardjnky4; 08-10-2015 at 10:54 AM.
Old     (djsauer)      Join Date: Feb 2015       08-10-2015, 10:59 AM Reply   
How do decipher between the factory tanks and Gen2 tanks? When I fill mine up in my X30, you just hit 50%, 75%, or whatever it is that you want and it fills. But, I don't see anywhere where you can change between the factory tanks and Gen2 tanks.
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       08-10-2015, 11:21 AM Reply   
^ XStar has Seperate pumps and level control for the bags. Completely Seperate from the tanks.
Old     (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-10-2015, 11:35 AM Reply   
NO WAY would I pay 100k plus for a wake boat and still have to manual fill sac every time I ride. I fill my supra 24 with 2800 pound with three switch and it's nowhere near as good as a G but it is a good wake. If its calm out, this summer we started add the 1000 pound triangle sac to the nose and that still isn't as big as a g23 wake stock but it fun and a 1/4 the price.

I rode behind a g23 last year a bunch and it is hands down the best wake I have ever hit and it surfs really well. It was the first boat I could do consistent 360's over and over again while wake surfing.

I can't afford one now but when they get to a price I can used my supra will be gone and I'll have a g23.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       08-10-2015, 1:43 PM Reply   
23 is not fast, and if it is fast to him he probably doesn't need any ballast, so I am assuming he means 32.... If so
**** that noise.

Also why I am not surprised MC used lead instead of a bag LOL

No front weight... My mind is boggled. Thing must porpoise up and down the lake if it isn't glass.

Last edited by simplej; 08-10-2015 at 1:46 PM.
Old     (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       08-10-2015, 1:52 PM Reply   
32 mph??? Wow one edge catch and u will never wakeboard again... that has to be a typo... lol. I don't understand how people can drive their boats like this... Everytime I have seen a wighted xstar like this with no bow weight it looks like there is no way the driver can see anything. especially with the ridiculously large bow on that boat (which apparently you cant use when riding)
Old     (djsauer)      Join Date: Feb 2015       08-10-2015, 3:05 PM Reply   
That is 100% a typo. I've talked to several people in the industry and Harley and Rusty both ride at around 24 mph. I find it very rare that anybody rides at 32 unless you're on a slalom...

Last edited by djsauer; 08-10-2015 at 3:07 PM.
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       08-10-2015, 3:29 PM Reply   
23 is basically the bare minimum for a loaded xstar. Wake won't take shape below that speed.
Old     (tjb1080)      Join Date: Jun 2010       08-10-2015, 3:43 PM Reply   
MY BAD!!
I was typing fast this morning. 23 to 24 is what i meant..I have not idea where that 32 to 33 came from. lol.
And yes.. my factory tanks and Gen2 bags have separate pumps as well as separate read-outs on the screen.
As for jonblarc7 not wanting to fill fatsacs on a 100k+ boat, well all I can say bro is you have not ever had a sponsored pro ask you to give him a pull, because I assure you every and I mean EVERY pro will add weight to their boat. I dont care what boat you have if a pro needs a pull you better add weight or he will not ask to ride with you again. lol. Not adding weight is just as bad as power-turning. Harf and Watson put more weight in their Gs then I discussed above. They fill both lockers and one on the floor and one in the bow.
Adding extra weight is just a fact of life due to the ballast restraints on manufactures because of the Coast Guard approval process.
Everybodys doin it. yes even G owners. If there is this much up front, you know it has to be double in the back.
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Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       08-10-2015, 3:59 PM Reply   
What is really funny is that engineers didn't get weight placement right on the factory setup :huh:

And yea, duh. They're pro's, they need all the wake they can get. You probably don't. So yes, it is ridiculous that the consumer would need to manually fill sacks in their 100k+ boat.

You'd hope the factory ballast was engineered and placed properly.
Old     (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-10-2015, 5:29 PM Reply   
Not trying to flame ya. Just saying that is the weirdest set up ever. And I'm not against adding weight. I do it all the time and my boat is set up with a lot more wieght than it came with from the factory with out manually filling. But I'm not a pro and you probably aren't either. So you do you really need more weight than factory on a xstar or g23? Do we all want more of course we do. So I wasn't attacking you just saying for that kind of money I would pretty much want the boat to drive its self and do everything easily. The G I was in did that and it had 3000 over stock in it but but for my level of riding it would be wasting gas money.

1st world problems and if I had your boat I would be defending it too.

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