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Old     (tgmind)      Join Date: Dec 2014       02-06-2018, 8:06 AM Reply   
First off I appreciate having this place where knowledgeable people are willing to share their opinion.

I've spent a few weeks now researching and going back and forth trying to figure out what too get. Now I seem to be leaning towards Tige RZR(20') or Malibu 21VLX. I currently have a 2004 21VLX. I know the Tige is small but it feels similar to my current boat and space is not an issue for my small crew.

Looking for the best surf wave in a small boat. Has to be 21 even or less. I'm going to the boat show on Friday and would love to make a deal there or shortly after.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       02-06-2018, 8:17 AM Reply   
Surfing? RZR.
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       02-06-2018, 8:31 AM Reply   
First of
I’ve owned an 2016 RZR
and switch for a 2017 Nautique 210.

Loved the boat at first. Really great look, great overall boat. Massive surf wave for a 20 footer.

Like you I had a 21ī 2009 and I regret going smaller. Even if it 1foot you definitely feel it.

You can’t really compare a 21 with a 20. Even if yeah true rzr have a spectacular wave. Still much difference with a 21.
Due to weight, ballast option, etc. If you can go bigger it’s always better for a better surf wave (my opinion).
The surf wave on my Nautique is uncomparable to my previous rzr.

Thing is, I had so much problem with it i barely had no choice to exchange it haha..
Primary cause of the dealership and not "tige" but still is. Reliability is not the "force" of tige haha..
Tige forum proved it.

But in the other side I’m not a big fan of surf gate. But that’s just a personal preference.

When you want the best 20ft surfwave rzr definitely are.

Last edited by Mike88; 02-06-2018 at 8:34 AM. Reason: Tapping
Old     (tgmind)      Join Date: Dec 2014       02-06-2018, 11:44 AM Reply   
Thanks for the info. What is it you don't like about the surfgate? I have never seen it in action.
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       02-06-2018, 12:47 PM Reply   
Im surfing for 8years now.. so with time we came pretty picky for the "perfect wave" haha.
It’s just a matter of personal preference. I’m surfstyle, not skim very much.

Surf gate is a really great surf system no doubt about that. It’s not for nothing it’s made since 2010. But it’s kind of old.. and Ain’t changing much since that time.
Malibu will come with something new shortly if it ain’t already planed for 2018.

Thing with surf gate is when you deploy the tabs and drop down the wedge it sacrifice too much push. You have a gigantic wave, perfect for skim board.
But like I said for surfstyle it’s no the perfect system.

BUT it’s only personal preferences lol. Many people just love the surf gate and if i would only make skim style my opinion gonna be different
Old     (Surfer101)      Join Date: Oct 2015       02-06-2018, 1:43 PM Reply   
If it were me Iíd take the wave of the Tige all day every day compared to the 210. But for the money Iíd definitely jump up to a 2018 r21 or r23. The 2018s have the same tech as the older ones and you get a bigger boat. You
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       02-06-2018, 2:43 PM Reply   
Agreed with you.
Surf wave to surfwave I’ll take a Z1 all day compare to a 210. Maybe a R21 too if it wasn’t a Tige lol.

But you really think the rzr can compete with a 210 wave? I’ve own both last summer.. come take a ride! Pretty sure you’ll never tried a 210 well balanced to say some like that haha..
My wave definitely kill my past rzr wave even without all fatsac I’ve put in it.
The 210 is so underestimated lol.
Switch the stock rear fatsac for 750’s, put a side 370 underseat and a 500 sumo in the belly all tubed up with the others
Making a total approx 3,500 lbs ballast. Took me what.. an afternoon to do that
And pretty sure I can give you an equal if not better wave compare to all straight 21footer (not 21,5).

But! That’s not the case here. Making a long story short
I bought a leftover RZR 2016 at the end season.
First summer was 2017, made 29hours and I’m GENEROUS from March to August.
Electronic issues, tabs problems, water in actuators, trouble with the speed control and solenoid.. name it.
Dealer who takes 3 weeks to repair each thing. First summer lol.
26 hours in the whole first summer really? Paid 75K for that?
For all the wave you want i’ll Surely prefer a wave that is OK and capable to make 95h on it than a perfect one and do 25 lol.
So I’ll take my courage and sued the f*cking dealership. Take an agreement and bought a 210. Best choice I’ve made in my life yet.
Making 70h in two months with it, 0 problems just.. surfing lol.
And never in my life I will own a Tigť again that’s a fact! Even if it was the dealer the major problem.. still is tige parts.

I don’t like to say bad things about a brand but.. seriously taking a Tige all day compared to a Nautique is straight joking lol.

Last edited by Mike88; 02-06-2018 at 2:50 PM. Reason: Tapping
Old     (infinitysurf)      Join Date: Apr 2017       02-06-2018, 6:01 PM Reply   
Mike, you ended up with an apparent Lemon and most of all, a BAD dealer who could have turned that situation around if he was on his game....cant judge Tige on that forever tho I would not have good things to say either if that happened to me and I would have switched brands too if I had a dealer like that and a ruined summer. Just saying....maybe that dealer just deserves a beating! Tige does stand behind their product, just need a dealer that talks to them and gives a crap
Old     (patrick232)      Join Date: Aug 2008       02-06-2018, 6:35 PM Reply   
While at the boat show check out the Supra SR at 20' 10" it feels bigger than the VLX, this is coming from my buddy that owns a VLX and has been on my SR. The surf wave we have found to be very easy to dial in with autowake and for 2018 you get 6 pumps vs 3 we have on our 2017. This will allow the boat to adjust to weight shifts twice as fast. Also new for 2018 is the power tower that you can tow with it down. No more bugs to scrape off when towing at noght.
Old     (Bakes)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-06-2018, 6:36 PM Reply   
^^^yeah...agreed. I can tell you that I bought my brothers boat (2016 Z3) without going through a dealer. I then slacked and was a month or two late on trying to get the warrantee transferred over. They were like "no big deal" and transferred my warrantee. I've only had 1 warrantee issue in 165 hours and they rocked it out of the park with their service. The WWS Tige dealership in Denver has been great.

Anyways, since your no longer TigeMike, I think you should change it to NautiMike. And if you ever get a 'Bu, dye your hair blond and go with MalibuMike. BTW, your 210 is friggin awesome.

In any case, if you have a good dealer nearby then don't discount Tige.
Old     (tgmind)      Join Date: Dec 2014       02-06-2018, 6:36 PM Reply   
Any other opinions on RZR vs VLX?
Old     (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       02-06-2018, 6:59 PM Reply   
https://centurionboats.com/boats/fi21/
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       02-06-2018, 7:56 PM Reply   
Haha yeah.. you all right. Canít blame Tige forever cause a cought a lemon.. hard pill to swallow instead.

Maybe stop annoying this poor thread too hahaha..

Last edited by Mike88; 02-06-2018 at 7:58 PM. Reason: Tapping
Old     (Surfer101)      Join Date: Oct 2015       02-06-2018, 9:48 PM Reply   
Well somebody hates Tige.... forgot how much WakeWorld dislikes Tige. Iíd recommend checking out Tigeowners.

I do agree the new Supra Sr is also a pretty sick boat.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       02-07-2018, 6:26 AM Reply   
Our tige had some issues but in general it was one of the most solidly built boats I’ve ever been in.

They just bolt a bunch of junk aluminium to it.
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       02-07-2018, 4:33 PM Reply   
Hey Cole! It’s nothing personal I swear.

I was in your exact same position a year ago. And I was frustrated too when I was posting here and had so much hate because a was "tige Mike" lol.
And I realised it may not be a coincidence. maybe it was not wakeworld who was disliking tige that much but so many people having problems and shared it over years it came in the mind of many people here to not touch tige. Simple like that.. I truly understand you! And me too I think it’s a sad thing but.. when you live it you understand why so much "hates" tige like you said.

Last year I was happy to recommend tige when I firstly owned my rzr! My first 24hours.
Things changed and sadly like I said I’m on the other side of the medal and understand why so much people were talking about tige..

But we got to agreed on one thing! I was a tigeowners and definitely you’ve got to admit that it’s the most occupied boat brand forum !
Admit it lol..
when I was looking to change my 2008 Moomba I’ve bought new.
I was searching and making opinion on every brand. Making accounts on Malibucrew, planetNautique, Mastercraft team talk, forum.moomba, mbboatowners and wakeworld.
Made an account too on tige owners ! Because someone here said the same thing wakeworld always Bash tige go to tige owners.
And damn this forum was so plenty of post! It’s crazy. Moomba forum is one of the most occupied but with post from everything ( wakeboard tricks, how to setup surfwave, issues, show your new boat, mods, etc) plenty of different things.
Tige owners in the hot season is just.. HELP or something wrong happened!
Everyday a new post for a different issue... It really cought my eyes compare to all other forums..
And that’s a fact.
Thing is the tige owners forum is the smallest too.. It’s the forum with the most thread/members ratio. So much thread for no much members.
Compare to Nautique strictly for example. That is the less thread/members.

Maybe for some people it’s nothing. But now for me it’s definitely a deal breaker to watch the issue thread/ members on forums.

And yeah! I’m very capable to admit that a Tigť Z1 was my dream boat. So beautiful and the wave, oh my god.
But.. life teached me something I will never forget ! Haha and here (in eastern) cause your Canadian like me we only had 2 dealers in Quebec and 1 in Ontario.
1 on quebec closed after 4years in 2014 and the one in Ontario closed too in 2015. Wich make just 1 still standing and with its crappy service pretty sure he will close his tige line shortly lol... but that’s really sad I admit it. Cause I really loved the Tigť wake and a fairly good price when it works

Last edited by Mike88; 02-07-2018 at 4:41 PM. Reason: Tapping
Old     (Bakes)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-07-2018, 6:00 PM Reply   
Well...just go to PlanetNautique or MalibuCrew and they post a lot of problems as well. MalibuCrew is always bagging on the drop in quality since ĎBu went public. Mastercraft TeamTalk doesnít of course since they just delete anything that isnít part of the corporate message.

Folks get all upset when you compare Nautique and Tige in the same sentence. In the end, they always throw out the ol ďfit and finishĒ thing to justify how much they pay for their nautique. I sit and ride in a lot of boats and I never, not once, think...man, the fit and finish on this Nautique is so much better that Iím going to sell my friggin awesome 16 Z3 and spend another $40-60k to upgrade to that super sweet fit and finish. Donít get me wrong, I absolutely would love to have GS22 or a G23....but there are so many other things Iíd rather spend my $40-60k on than a marginal bump in fit and finish.

In my book the pecking order is Nautique, everyone else, everyone elseís ďbargainĒ brands. Supra is spot on these days. Tige and Bu both make great boats. Nautique makes a great boat that you pay a bit more for. Really, the biggest/most noticeable difference is when you compare the good stuff (Nautique, Bu, Tige, Supra, etc.) with the price point stuff (I.e. Moomba)...but even there, there are some nice Moombas on the lake....just a clear difference going from a Supra to a Moomba sitting in them.
Old     (Surfer101)      Join Date: Oct 2015       02-07-2018, 8:26 PM Reply   
Think of it like this, you can consider Nautique to be the Mercedes of boats, super high quality but extremely top dollar. Next Malibu is like the bmw, luxury and crazy $$ for what you get, some modern tech but a little old school at the same time. I like to think of Tige as an Audi, very well built and gets the job done, quite often overlooked. and let's say supra is a Lincoln and Moomba is a ford, same guts different luxuries.

I know everyone hates car analogy's but oh well.... What's the new waketractor? an old jeep wrangler
Old     (Bakes)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-07-2018, 8:39 PM Reply   
Waketractor = Yugo

SN2001 = classic Jeep
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       02-08-2018, 5:59 AM Reply   
Haha.. yeah great point there.
But When we making comparaison like that everyone got their own opinion!
Like everyone have their own opinion on their prefered boat brand lol.

I would like to put my comparaison if it’s not too much.
Audi is the biggest manufacturer in the world, selling to highest quantity of cars (with their other brands)
Most of all you compare with Germain companies lol.. I prefer thinking A little bit more worldwild.

Moomba/ Supra for me is Honda/Acura. good product for the price you pay. The best bang for the buck.
Mastercraft who is BMW for me. crazy $$ but some top of the line and kind of old school too. You pay a little bit for the name
Nautique for me looks more like Cadillac. Reliable, hard product who is there since the beginning, well built, you pay for the price yeah it’s true but you have what you pay for. You can have luxury, speed, fun, everything you want in the same. But you are part of something that almost everybody have.
Malibu’/ Axis ford f150/ Lincoln overall great boat, some diffrenrent building than the others who don’t please everybody lol. Luxury just to say you have some.
And tige who is some exotic, like Alfa Romeo. You look at it and you just man that’s a fancy car. Not so much on the roads. Built to do what you want, the sport (wakesurf). You don’t buy an alfa Romeo sport car just to cruising with your family or for its comfort lol. You buy it to drive.
Interior is well built, very good price compare to his direct competitors. As an exotic car they not so reliable, but that’s part of the game when you want to look different.

Hopes it’s not "too much" lol because the moment I say Tige is "hate"..
Old     (Reddog78)      Join Date: Mar 2017       02-08-2018, 7:13 AM Reply   
Most sn2001 are like a chopped fender XJ. soggy,waterlogged,and beat!
Old     (tgmind)      Join Date: Dec 2014       02-10-2018, 8:54 AM Reply   
I went to the boat show yesterday. Looked at the Axis A20, Malibu VLX and Tige didn't have an RZR but I had seen one previously. I did really like the new VLX but in the end I made a deal on the RZR. I don't think I could go wrong with RZR or VLX. Both seems to fit my needs well but I really like the looks and available colors of the RZR and was able to get tons of additional features for less than the stripped VLX(power tower, Rev 10's w Sub, rear view camera, surf pipe, heater, transom lights, tower lights, metal flake upgrade) Also got a free onewheel(electric street surfer thing). No way to tell if I made the best decision but I"m excited.
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       02-10-2018, 2:39 PM Reply   
Congrats ! And definitely with Tigť you have a lot more options than Malibu.. that’s a fact.
Have a great summer and one thing I love from tige is the audio. Wetsound have the best speakers hands down.
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       02-11-2018, 6:14 AM Reply   
If you really want a killer wave I had done few mods on mine and it was dope!
- if you are surfing port side, adding a 370lbs fat sac under the side seat totally change the wave. Very easy to plug it with the others too. Lots of thread on tigeowners to do that (almost everybody done it).
- change underwater lights because the stock ones was kind of cheap (300lumens each). Change them for lumitec seablaze3.
- surf pipe and glad they comes stock now because thatís really a most! Just for the gaz fume and for hearing music when you surf.
Old     (tgmind)      Join Date: Dec 2014       02-23-2018, 4:39 AM Reply   
Hey eMike,
I'v been trying to find the info about adding the 370 under side seat at tigeowners but cannot find it. Sounds like something I need to do. Would you mind giving me some more info?
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       02-23-2018, 6:42 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgmind View Post
Hey eMike,
I'v been trying to find the info about adding the 370 under side seat at tigeowners but cannot find it. Sounds like something I need to do. Would you mind giving me some more info?
Sure, with pleasure.

Firstly I would recommand trying the boat before adding the side sac.
The Tige rzr surf wave is already pretty awesome (even the best of all 20footer). Itís steep and a tons of push. Adding a sac in the side storage makes it more steeper and even more push.
That means harder to surf, harder for beginners. More mellow is the wave, more easier. More steeper, more difficult.
Iíve done this modification mostly because itís been surfing for 8years now.
And 90% of the time im only with my girlfriend on the boat so it replace 2 people weight.
I added a ball valve too so I can turn it off when friends come by or beginners riding.

That said itís your choice! A little base in plumbing is a good thing tho but I will try to explain you the best I can. Itís been 2 years now lol and donít have the boat anymore.

You will need a some PVC 1" parts I think. Some ę*T*Ľ, a check valve, plug and play male and female (makemakers make some or your boat dealer have some for sure. The rest Home Depot), tubing 1" 12ft I think itís enough and some ring.
Tige use 2 different pump if I remember well. 1 for filling and 1 for draining.

Draining - You got to cut the rear sac filling hose and put a T. This one is the harder because the tube is short, it came out from the rear pannel (where the battery is) and enter directly in the sac. (Iíve seen some people put the T on the other side of the pannel but for me I had enough space). After plugging the T and tighten the hoses with rings (donít forget the tape or shrink around them to avoid cutting sacs when filling) you go all the way in the side storage and you plug it in the side bottom of the 370 with píug and play male-female.

Filling - you cut the hose at the top of your rear sac, put a T and go all the way to your 370 and plug it at the top. (Put a ball valve somewhere, I prefered putting it in the rear locker more space).

Draining- that the hose that exit on the up side at the rear of the boat. Cut it somewhere and put a T. Go all the way to your 370 BUT donít forget to put a check valve on this hose. Plug it at the second top entry of your sac.
Your done!

Good luck
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       02-23-2018, 6:44 AM Reply   
Kyle,

Depending on the year RZR/R20, rather then add another sac, swap out the small factory sac with a larger semi-custom surf sac. This can be a plug-n-play gain of 600 lbs in each locker.
Old     (scwellman)      Join Date: Nov 2006       02-23-2018, 2:22 PM Reply   
My experience with Tige hasn't been that great, I wish I wouldn't have dropped $100K with them. They we're great when earning my business, but after the sale they have left a bad taste in my mouth, perhaps you should keep looking. PM if you want details.
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       02-23-2018, 2:26 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by scwellman View Post
My experience with Tige hasn't been that great, I wish I wouldn't have dropped $100K with them. They we're great when earning my business, but after the sale they have left a bad taste in my mouth, perhaps you should keep looking. PM if you want details.
Was it dealer or factory that sucked?
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       02-23-2018, 2:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reddog78 View Post
Most sn2001 are like a chopped fender XJ. soggy,waterlogged,and beat!
LOLOL! And I have chopped XJ..... its true!

where you wheeling red?
Old     (tgmind)      Join Date: Dec 2014       02-23-2018, 3:22 PM Reply   
Thanks Mike. My boat just got sprayed today. Should get it in a few weeks and I assume I'll be able to visualize what you're saying once I see it. Thanks again for the detailed response.
Old     (scwellman)      Join Date: Nov 2006       02-23-2018, 6:01 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by racer808 View Post
Was it dealer or factory that sucked?
Both. Dealer has been a large part of my displeasure, but the factory hasn't been very helpful either. Not gonna bash on the internet. Just wanted to share my experience as a recent Tige owner w/OP.
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       02-23-2018, 8:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by scwellman View Post
Both. Dealer has been a large part of my displeasure, but the factory hasn't been very helpful either. Not gonna bash on the internet. Just wanted to share my experience as a recent Tige owner w/OP.
Yeah me too same thing.. bad experience with Tige.. dealer has been a major part but Tige itself wasnít so good either. not want to go over again but it made me a never buy again customer lol.. I feel you.
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       02-23-2018, 8:48 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgmind View Post
Thanks Mike. My boat just got sprayed today. Should get it in a few weeks and I assume I'll be able to visualize what you're saying once I see it. Thanks again for the detailed response.
Pleasure Kyle!
And yeah.. pretty much easier if you read the post when you will be in it hahaha.
It’s not that bad, even pretty easy. It looks complicated but it’s not.
Good luck!

Last edited by Mike88; 02-23-2018 at 8:48 PM. Reason: Tapping

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