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Old     (Chrisz)      Join Date: Jun 2012       07-21-2016, 7:49 AM Reply   
I currently have a Mastercraft X 25 (2012) and am looking to move into a new boat. I love the fit and finish on my X 25 and the surf wake and wakeboard wake are great. The reason I am changing out is I have had repeated problems with the software and it's just not worth the aggravation when I am limited on how much time I can spend on the water.

My previous boat was an Air Nautique 210 (2004) and I never had an issue with that boat. I am looking for a boat that holds up to 10 comfortably, surf wake is primary and wakeboard wake secondary, is reliable and can handle a lake that is relatively crowded (Norris Lake TN) without beating everyone up.

I have looked at the MXZ, X-10, G21, and Air Nautique 230 (Search limited to those brands due to those are the strong dealers in my area who give great support). I am looking to keep the cost under $90k so I am fine with a used boat (2013/2014/2015). I have narrowed it down to a G21 or an Air Nautique 230. From what I am reading there was a big change in the transmission from 2013 to 2014 in the G series and I should stay away from the 2013 due to enormous fuel consumption. I have never really worried about gas (when you factor in renting a place, cost of the boat, taking time off work ect.,. I don't really care if it's $100 a day on fuel versus $150).

Two questions. If I go with the G21 should I pay up for the 2014 model due to the transmission upgrades? Second is the G series worth the extra price over the Air Nautique given what I am looking for?

Thanks
Old     (FunkyBunch)      Join Date: Jun 2011       07-21-2016, 8:17 AM Reply   
If your are looking at a G21 the transmission is a non issue it only came in the 2:1 and there is not a 2013 year model for that boat. If you looking at the G23 then yes there is a difference. The only thing I would say steer clear of on the G21 is the 335 ext motor.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       07-21-2016, 8:30 AM Reply   
My family owned an 2012 X25. The biggest nightmare of a boat he's ever owned. Electrical gremlins were brutal. We actually installed seperate ballast pumps just to bypass the factor cluster%## that it became to be with the PNP option. Enoug bout that tho.


As mentioned the G21 tranny is a non issue.


What do you like about your X25 most? The wakeboard wake behind your X25 is the steepest in their line by far. Same could also be said for the G21. It's more abrupt than the G23 for sure and definitely steeper than the 230. The 230 is a great all around boat. The G21 has a bit more bow space than the 230 but, the 230 lounge is ginormous. Much like the X25 the 230 likes to be ridden at higher speeds with ballast. If you're interested in low speed wakes G21 is better. The 230 surfs well if that matters. Wakeboards ggood as well. Just has little less peak in the wake. The 230 will give you more room and storage than your current X25. The G21 will be about same.


It's tough call. One thing I will say is nobody has ever claimed to have too much boat. Always go as big as you can. If you have the room for a 230 I would tend to lean that way.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       07-21-2016, 8:39 AM Reply   
I have never had good luck with x25s and have amassed over 700 hours in them due to their popularity around me. Ilmor engines are a let down for me.

Can I suggest a wild card? how about a custom ordered A22/T23 (since you have a bu dealer). Everything in that boat is about simplicity. No funky electrics to go wrong, killer wakeboard wake, killer surf wake. At 90k you could tick every option box including the bigger engines. Food for thought.

Otherwise from I would go with a G23 if I could swing it. The G21 is pretty finicky but makes a good wake. Also find it prone to dunking the nose. Not sure how it stacks up against the 230 but bigger is usually better...
Old     (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       07-21-2016, 8:45 AM Reply   
^ How do you dunk the nose on a G21 with the bow that high out of the water!? That just seems like poor driver skills.
Old     (Chrisz)      Join Date: Jun 2012       07-21-2016, 8:57 AM Reply   
I like the space in the X-25 and the layout is great. It's a good surf boat once you get used to it and know how to make adjustments based on size of your crew and water conditions and it's a great wakeboard wake under any conditions. The fit and finish on the interior is second to none. What I don't like are the gremlins in my touch screen and the boat handles like a pig at slow speeds. I meet the mechanic who worked on my boat at my slip and watched him spend ten minutes trying to get my boat on the lift. He said he's been driving inboards for 30 years and never seen one handle so poorly.

I'm looking for a boat that is reliable, surfs great without making constant adjustments, can hold ten comfortably and handles a little better at low speeds.
Old     (sambo13)      Join Date: Jun 2009       07-21-2016, 8:57 AM Reply   
I would very much suggest what simplej stated. The T23 might be the most underrated wake-making machine on the market right now. Everything about that boat is just badass.
Old     (biggator)      Join Date: Jul 2010       07-21-2016, 9:39 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcrider View Post
^ How do you dunk the nose on a G21 with the bow that high out of the water!? That just seems like poor driver skills.
Agreed. I have a 23 and I've never been CLOSE... as opposed to my old LSV.
Old     (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: SF Bay Area       07-21-2016, 9:51 AM Reply   
Dipping the nose & sensitive wake on a G21????????????
Were you dreaming possibly?
Old     (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-21-2016, 9:58 AM Reply   
How on earth do you think the G21 has a sensitive wake and the nose dips??? the wake is almost exactly like the g23 just a little steeper. and I have had full ballast and 12 people in my boat and not even come close to dunking the front end... its like 2 feet out of the water lol. were u thinking of the 230 when you said that? because they ride low and are very very finnicky
Old     (srock)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-21-2016, 10:02 AM Reply   
I cannot fathom the electronics issues associated with these new boats especially as they age. God help you if you run them in salt.
Old     (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-21-2016, 10:14 AM Reply   
I will argue storage from the X25 to a G21 is not even close. been in both and own a 21... by the time you add sacks to equal the 21 in ballast stoarge would be less than half conservatively. And the 25 wake is not nearly as scalable. the 21 is clean with factory ballast down to 20mph and the 25s ive ridden in are very good until they hit a certain point but then you have to ride way too fast to clean it up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
My family owned an 2012 X25. The biggest nightmare of a boat he's ever owned. Electrical gremlins were brutal. We actually installed seperate ballast pumps just to bypass the factor cluster%## that it became to be with the PNP option. Enoug bout that tho.


As mentioned the G21 tranny is a non issue.


What do you like about your X25 most? The wakeboard wake behind your X25 is the steepest in their line by far. Same could also be said for the G21. It's more abrupt than the G23 for sure and definitely steeper than the 230. The 230 is a great all around boat. The G21 has a bit more bow space than the 230 but, the 230 lounge is ginormous. Much like the X25 the 230 likes to be ridden at higher speeds with ballast. If you're interested in low speed wakes G21 is better. The 230 surfs well if that matters. Wakeboards ggood as well. Just has little less peak in the wake. The 230 will give you more room and storage than your current X25. The G21 will be about same.


It's tough call. One thing I will say is nobody has ever claimed to have too much boat. Always go as big as you can. If you have the room for a 230 I would tend to lean that way.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       07-21-2016, 11:13 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by migs View Post
Dipping the nose & sensitive wake on a G21????????????
Were you dreaming possibly?
NO. I will find video if I have to.

We have 4 boats in our normal weekly rotation. G21 is one of them. I spend about 3 hours on it each week.

Thing is finicky as heck. I can move my 190lb butt 6 inches and make a huge difference in the wake quality. It runs super starboard heavy right out of the box.

Its not an old xstar but yes it will dunk the nose readily as soon as you add a passenger or 2 to the front unless you do a surf style turn around.


The G23 is a different animal...
Old     (YYCBoarder)      Join Date: Apr 2013       07-21-2016, 11:21 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisz View Post
I like the space in the X-25 and the layout is great. It's a good surf boat once you get used to it and know how to make adjustments based on size of your crew and water conditions and it's a great wakeboard wake under any conditions. The fit and finish on the interior is second to none. What I don't like are the gremlins in my touch screen and the boat handles like a pig at slow speeds. I meet the mechanic who worked on my boat at my slip and watched him spend ten minutes trying to get my boat on the lift. He said he's been driving inboards for 30 years and never seen one handle so poorly.

I'm looking for a boat that is reliable, surfs great without making constant adjustments, can hold ten comfortably and handles a little better at low speeds.
The G is the worst boat I've ever driven for handling at low speeds. If I had to describe the G I'd say that it is a rider's boat instead of a driver's boat. The wake/wave is great but to be honest it's a bit of a pig to drive. (Let's see how angry people get over this comment. haha).

Here's what I like about the G. We've had 12 people and didn't feel cramped at all. The surf setup is extremely easy and the wakeboard wake is always easy to clean up all the way down to 21 mph when fully weighted. The ride in rough water is ok but I'm guessing the X25 is better with the deep V. There is very little bow rise and you're not looking at the sky even when getting on plane.

All boats have problems but it seems like Nautiques have less than many others (or else most owners are die hard fans and won't say anything bad online about them. lol)
Old     (tweeder)      Join Date: Aug 2015       07-21-2016, 11:26 AM Reply   
I don't know why you looked at the MXZ in the whole BU line up. If surfing is a priority the 23 LSV deserves another look. I have a decent amount of time between the 23 LSV and the 25 LSV. The wave and wake behind the 25 is huge but the 23 LSV is just as good. Wakeboard wake is great, and surf wave is even better. If you could find a SG 23 LSV with the SC motor in your price range I would give it another look over.
Old     (sevy)      Join Date: Aug 2014       07-21-2016, 11:43 AM Reply   
I have a 230 and it handles amazing even with 3000 pounds of ballast. Surf wake is awesome, probably as good or better than the pre 2016 G's. Make sure you upgrade the rear ballast to 750 plug and play vs the 400's that come with the pro ballast upgrade. You may also want the add an IBS. My only complaint is that it is side to side wt sensitive. 230 would more prone to dunking the nose esp heavily weighted. Handles chop great, I've taken mine on Lake Michigan without issue. Storage should be better on the G as all the ballast is sub-floor. 343 engine should be fine in the 230 unless you are at high altitude or are running heavily weighted for wakeboarding. We have take 16 people on our boat without issue. 230 should run you about 20,000 less. Keep in mind towing and storage. There are a couple low hour 230's for sale on planet nautique for reasonable prices. Definitely under your stated budget. Keep in mind the throttle changed to drive by wire in 2015, which was a nice improvement. Happy hunting! Both are great boats.
Old     (kenv)      Join Date: May 2002       07-21-2016, 11:50 AM Reply   
C Johnson....I have a 2015 G21 and yes...you are correct. It is a bit of a pig to drive. And yes...if you don't know how to drive around the wave after dropping a surfer...you WILL take plenty of water over the nose of a G21. It does sit high...yes...when the boat is STOPPED...but driving through the rollers drops it quite a bit to the waterline in the bow. Like I said...good driver...stays dry. But I've had a few driving that I have had to instruct to really watch the nose when they turn back to get me after a surfing fall. This is of course with full ballast.
Old     (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       07-21-2016, 12:38 PM Reply   
I saw a guy at one of our local lakes pulling a tube once with a G23 when they first came out. LOL



Wait it gets betters!!!




Every time somebody fell off the tube he would turn the boat around and INTENTIONALLY dunk the nose to get the kids wet in the front of the boat!!!! I wanted to slap him so bad.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       07-21-2016, 12:46 PM Reply   
LOL wakeboat+tube


Don't forget it sneaks up the backdoor, too
Old     (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       07-21-2016, 1:01 PM Reply   
LOL^^^

That's the only thing and I mean the only thing I can say I don't like about the G23.

When loaded down and you come off plane the rooster tail will wash over the back sunpad if your not careful. But I'll look the other way because that boat is my dream boat. One day I will have one.
Old     (230Nick)      Join Date: Mar 2014       07-21-2016, 1:25 PM Reply   
I have a older 230, and love it! A close friend of mine had a 11' 230 with the small engine and it had no problem pushing it along.

Mine has the 6.0 ZR6. I have had one instance where the boat wouldnt plain out, until people moved. We had 8 people total, 3 sat in the bow, and 3 had to stand in the walk way to get the boat to plain out with full ballast. Which includes: 2 - 1100 Lbs v drive bags, factory hard tank full, arrow sack full, and v sac under bow seating full. Wake didnt clean up until 26mph. We was basically just playing with the wake, i couldn't get out to ride it due to a recent knee injury.

I cant speak to how the new 230s handle, but last i heard is that the new 230s all share the same hulls from 07-current... minus some tweaking for NSS. But the 230 handles good fully weighted. But is super sensitive to weight for wakeboarding! Its not hard to wash the wake from one side to the other. But the wake is a LOT bigger than that 210 you had. Ive put over 300Hrs on it in 3 years of owning it, and have had nearly zero issues!
Old     (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: SF Bay Area       07-21-2016, 1:53 PM Reply   
^^^ Not to mention, the 230 has to be one of the sexiest boats on the water hands down.
Attached Images
 
Old     (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-22-2016, 11:36 AM Reply   
Im still going to disagree with this... If you have never drove a wakeboat in you life then yes maybe pulling around for a surfer could be an issue and maybe the bow might be slightly easier to dip than a g23 but it still going to take less water on than most all the boats out there... Xstars, Axis, 230s etc etc. I have run full factory and a bow triagle in my 21 with no issues surfing with my 23 y.o. first timer girlfriend driving it and she didnt take a drop over the front multiple times out.

As far as taking water in the walkthrough, when throttling down if you just turn the wheel 30 degrees or so even when majorly loaded its never an issue. But yea I have taken water over (few gallons) the walkthrough a few times when not paying attention or when I first got the boat. But this is present in all the Gs

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenv View Post
C Johnson....I have a 2015 G21 and yes...you are correct. It is a bit of a pig to drive. And yes...if you don't know how to drive around the wave after dropping a surfer...you WILL take plenty of water over the nose of a G21. It does sit high...yes...when the boat is STOPPED...but driving through the rollers drops it quite a bit to the waterline in the bow. Like I said...good driver...stays dry. But I've had a few driving that I have had to instruct to really watch the nose when they turn back to get me after a surfing fall. This is of course with full ballast.
Old     (FunkyBunch)      Join Date: Jun 2011       07-22-2016, 1:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by superair502 View Post
Im still going to disagree with this... If you have never drove a wakeboat in you life then yes maybe pulling around for a surfer could be an issue and maybe the bow might be slightly easier to dip than a g23 but it still going to take less water on than most all the boats out there... Xstars, Axis, 230s etc etc. I have run full factory and a bow triagle in my 21 with no issues surfing with my 23 y.o. first timer girlfriend driving it and she didnt take a drop over the front multiple times out.

As far as taking water in the walkthrough, when throttling down if you just turn the wheel 30 degrees or so even when majorly loaded its never an issue. But yea I have taken water over (few gallons) the walkthrough a few times when not paying attention or when I first got the boat. But this is present in all the Gs
This ^^^^.... It might just be perspective but some of things listed here are kinda funny. The G21 driving like a pig... I don't know another boat that drives any better weighted to the same degree as this boat. None of the other boats I drive come close to it. I demoed an A24 fully loaded wedge up and wedge down and turning the boat around is not even close to the G. If it's only slow speed issues even my wife say's this boat is awesome compared to our last boat.

If there is a knock on the boat for me to meet the OP needs. It would be surf wake. It will take some dialing in each time out. As people move about the boat you could need to change the surf settings on the screen.
Old     (kenv)      Join Date: May 2002       07-23-2016, 12:20 AM Reply   
Yeah....my pig comment was directed to full ballast, slow driving. I guess because of more weight, it feels more sluggish then my old 226 or the Malibu that I sometimes go out in with another friend. I should have said "GOOD pig"......lol. G21 is an awesome boat. Does everything I want it to. Mase....once I showed my daughter how to come back after the fall......she keeps it dry every time now. BUT....if you are new and no one shows you...this boat DOES take water over the bow. Every boat will if you hit the right wave the wrong way.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-23-2016, 8:34 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisz View Post
I currently have a Mastercraft X 25 (2012) and am looking to move into a new boat. I love the fit and finish on my X 25 and the surf wake and wakeboard wake are great. The reason I am changing out is I have had repeated problems with the software and it's just not worth the aggravation when I am limited on how much time I can spend on the water.

My previous boat was an Air Nautique 210 (2004) and I never had an issue with that boat. I am looking for a boat that holds up to 10 comfortably, surf wake is primary and wakeboard wake secondary, is reliable and can handle a lake that is relatively crowded (Norris Lake TN) without beating everyone up.

I have looked at the MXZ, X-10, G21, and Air Nautique 230 (Search limited to those brands due to those are the strong dealers in my area who give great support). I am looking to keep the cost under $90k so I am fine with a used boat (2013/2014/2015). I have narrowed it down to a G21 or an Air Nautique 230. From what I am reading there was a big change in the transmission from 2013 to 2014 in the G series and I should stay away from the 2013 due to enormous fuel consumption. I have never really worried about gas (when you factor in renting a place, cost of the boat, taking time off work ect.,. I don't really care if it's $100 a day on fuel versus $150).

Two questions. If I go with the G21 should I pay up for the 2014 model due to the transmission upgrades? Second is the G series worth the extra price over the Air Nautique given what I am looking for?

Thanks
Last year, I was literally in the same boat as you. I couldn't decide between those two. Ultimately, for me it came down to these things.
1. 230 feels way more spacious (because it is)
2. 230 has a longer surf wake
3. 230 has better lines and is a much better looking boat.
4. 230 is a few inches shorter on the trailer which allows me to park it in my shop without having to lower the tower like I would the G21
Also, I run over 3,700 lbs of ballast (all hidden) and have never once dunked the nose.
Even with the 14 people I had on board a few weeks ago. (only one child)
Old     (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       07-23-2016, 9:42 AM Reply   
Markj- what is the height of a newer 230 on the trailer?
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-23-2016, 10:25 AM Reply   
10'-4" on a Boatmate trailer.
Old     (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       07-23-2016, 10:51 AM Reply   
Wouldn't you know, I just put in a 10' door on my shop..
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-23-2016, 10:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brett33 View Post
Wouldn't you know, I just put in a 10' door on my shop..
Oh man... Bummer! When I built my shop in 2005, I never knew boats were gonna blow up in size like they did. Plus I never knew I'd ever consider replacing my SAN 210 either. Nowadays, I preach to everyone who is building a shop to build everything bigger and wider than you think it should be. Hindsight.....
Old     (kenv)      Join Date: May 2002       07-24-2016, 9:16 PM Reply   
Markj....are you comparing the 230 to the G21? Probably more spacious because it is 2 feet longer...now 230 to G23.....maybe different space-wise. But you are right....230 is one of the BEST looking boats ever.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-25-2016, 11:13 AM Reply   
Yes. I said "it feels way more spacious (because it is)." See line 1.

Last edited by markj; 07-25-2016 at 11:14 AM. Reason: grammar

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