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Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-21-2017, 12:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
ROLL CALL!!! I see almost all of you guys have arrived for the daily liberal WW circle jerk where you also smell and grade each other's farts. Where are John, Jeremy and Darren? Maybe getting some pictures taken of themselves NOT smiling. LOL. For the record, I'm not a big fan of Milo. He has said a few interesting things in the past, but his 15 minutes are just about up, as they should be. Kind of like the seahawks.
Been riding my bike, looking staunch. Not easy in lycra.

Milo is human waste, Not giving him a platform doesn't mean you are suppressing free speech, it just means you don't think anything he says is interesting.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-21-2017, 7:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
ROLL CALL!!! I see almost all of you guys have arrived for the daily liberal WW circle jerk where you also smell and grade each other's farts. Where are John, Jeremy and Darren?
Apparently we're not in to circle jerks as much as you.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       02-21-2017, 8:38 AM Reply   
wow if the right is upset about Milo wait till they hear twenty children were shot and killed in an elementary school and they did nothing.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-27-2017, 10:55 PM Reply   
Wasn't sure what thread to post this in but this is the defacto racism thread i guess.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...=NYDailyNewsTw

This is not justice imo, no doubt these two are drongo drop kicks but 30 years is too long for intimidation and abuse. People get less for murder and stealing people's life savings.

Anyway, this hate crime hysteria is distorting justice in my opinion.

Last edited by ralph; 02-27-2017 at 10:57 PM. Reason: Oh, forgot my point.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-27-2017, 11:01 PM Reply   
Ralph, how did you get 30 years? The guy got 13 and the woman 6.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-27-2017, 11:11 PM Reply   
Oh, got a bit fake newsed by the headline but He got sentenced to 20 and the chick got 15, 35 combined.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-27-2017, 11:14 PM Reply   
Damn liberals - masterminding the whole thing AND sending these good folks to jail!
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-27-2017, 11:25 PM Reply   
You think 20 years while not physically harming someone is appropriate?
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-27-2017, 11:41 PM Reply   
Brandishing a firearm and yelling you're gonna "kill all the n***as" may not be physical harm, but it's clearly a hate crime. I think the idea behind enhanced sentences for hate crime is that your crime is not just against the individuals involved, but against the class itself.

And for a kid's birthday party? Trash like that deserves to be taken out. I'm sure they'll have a fun time in prison.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-27-2017, 11:58 PM Reply   
No doubt it is disgusting behavior but I think that this type of disproportionate punishment leads to more militant behavior from the redneck racists, no good will come from it.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-28-2017, 12:37 AM Reply   
Are you against enhanced sentencing as a general rule? It's an interesting subject.

Those four pieces of chit in Chicago that kidnapped the kid and live streamed it, for example, would get up to 3 years for a hate crime alone, plus up to 7 more for kidnapping, or because he has a mental disability it could become "aggravated kidnapping" which could go up more than 4x that with a max of 30 years.

Then of course there is the death penalty in cases where no one has died. Some states have capital sentencing in cases of aircraft hijacking as well as certain types of sexual assault.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-28-2017, 12:49 AM Reply   
I'd need to see a good argument for enhanced sentencing before considering it but on the face of it I'm against it as a general principal.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-28-2017, 12:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
No doubt it is disgusting behavior but I think that this type of disproportionate punishment leads to more militant behavior from the redneck racists, no good will come from it.

Ralph for the first time we can agree.




Wes Wes Wes


Screaming racial slurs in and of itself is not a hate crime . Screaming alll$&&& must die, not a hate crime , screaming kill alll @&$)) not a hate crime .......it's called free speech. People don't have to like everyone and can hold the views that they like. People are allowed to say anything they want to a certain degree without it being criminal. Words will not physically hurt or harm anyone in the eyes of the law. There has to be an act of furtherance (physical) in most states to make words mean something criminal . But snowflakes be dammed . It's also not illegal to form a group , ride your trucks around with flags waving , screaming racial slurs.


I am not a fan of hate crime laws at all. A majority of the cases they are only enforced one way . A crime is a crime , doesn't matter the color of your skin or the motivation for the actions . Yes it's that simple. Pointing a gun at someone in threatening manner is criminal no matter who it's facing or who's holding it.

Last edited by xstarrider; 02-28-2017 at 1:08 AM.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-28-2017, 1:23 AM Reply   
"We'll blow the heads off all the little b------ and the little n----- can get one too"

All while pointing shotguns at ppl at a kid's birthday party. Not sure why you're ignoring the firearms.

You're pretty disingeuous, dude. If some muslims came to your kid's birthday party with guns yelling death to America I think you'd be just fine with such a sentence.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-28-2017, 10:25 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
"We'll blow the heads off all the little b------ and the little n----- can get one too"

All while pointing shotguns at ppl at a kid's birthday party. Not sure why you're ignoring the firearms.

You're pretty disingeuous, dude. If some muslims came to your kid's birthday party with guns yelling death to America I think you'd be just fine with such a sentence.
did you not make it to my last paragraph or do you just choose to type arguments at everyone ? It's pretty clear I am not ignoring the firearm aspect.

Unfortunately I have had a similar scenario happen ... I had a group of people show up to my residence and stand outside my house screaming killl that white pig, threatening my family as they went to school , throwing racial slurs and insults for 3 days while a trial I was involved in went on. You know what happened ?? Nothing. Not one person was arrested....... why........ because they were black and I was the white police so I am expected to have to tolerate that kind of behavior. All they did was station a police car in front of my house for the next month . Completely ignoring the fact my family had to reside elsewhere in fear of their safety.

On to most recent scenario of Christmas shopping this past year. I went downtown to shop. Standing blocking all the sidewalks and entrances to stores were hundreds of black lives matter activists and supporters shouting racial slurs about rich white people and trigger happy white police. They formed lines and wouldn't let people thorough the sidewalks to shop freely. . You know what happened to them? Nothing There were several arrests once a few protestors got physical with storegoers and tourists. You think hate crime charges were filed there? You think any of them were arrested ?

Lets now discuss YOUR b day party scenario. What is the difference between people lining up outside a home on a public street to voice their hate and disgust and what we see daily right now from the left . Why is the b day scenario different from any other scenario ? Because it's your personal house? But they're on a public street !!!!!! Because there is a single family involved? What about the millions of families who lives are disrupted every day beacause of these actions on a bigger scale ( streets getting block, hotel entrances getting blocked and occupants of these places being intimidated, individuals getting attacked because they don't share the same views ). How are these any different ? Children and people are intimidated by those actions just as much as a group outside a b day party.

Again I am not saying the case in point which these few went to jail isn't the correct outcome. Let me also be clear on the sentencing. I am not saying it's to harsh in general , it's just too harsh when you compare it to the sentences of other people committing this same act in which the person on the end of the gun was the same skin color as the person holding it. However did you also see they made 15 other arrests in this case simply because those 15 were part of the group and yet didn't choose to brandish a firearm. As you can see from my first hand experiences and the result of this case, hate crime laws are severely screwed one way. That's my issue. The other issue is the fact protests now are no longer simple protests . The enforcement against protestors for criminal acts is also severely scewed. Enforcement should be the same across the board. Should a group of people standing outside someone's house yelling racial slurs be arrested , you're $($&&) right they should. But you need arrest everyone performing these same actions Not just when it's convenient for an agenda.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       02-28-2017, 10:33 AM Reply   
Lets really get a take from "hate crime " advocates.

White family and a group of friends (group A) show up outside another white family's (group B) house. Group A starts screaming kill all those Smith's . They're traitors and liberals . They're ruining this country and we want them dead. 1 memeber from group A brandishes a firearm and screams all big government families must die!


Shouldn't these individuals get the same punishment? They're commiting the same exact crime in the same manner. Do you think in this scenario 15 plus people would be charged criminally and the two main individuals would have received such high jail times?

What about an individual who walks up to you after an altercation in a public place over a parking spot or something trivial brandishes a weapon and says get the @$$ out of here or I will kill you . Shouldnt he get the same high finding as well ?

Last edited by xstarrider; 02-28-2017 at 10:42 AM.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-28-2017, 10:41 AM Reply   
Yes exactly, it's not justice to skew the sentences in that way. Don't get me wrong i would love the westbro Baptist nuts to get locked up but if you only support speech you like then your not for free speech.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-28-2017, 11:35 AM Reply   
Chris, sorry I didn't understand from the way you arranged the paragraphs what you were saying (Seemed like you were making a different distinction). Also sorry to hear about your family's experience. But as a cop you know justice isn't always evenly meted out - and this is leaving hate crime escalation out of the picture altogether.

Regarding this particular case, from what I read there were a lot of people pointing the shotguns at partygoers, but I don't believe anyone received any jail time other than the two mentioned? I could be wrong (not very impressed with the writeups I've read on this case tbh).

I can appreciate your point of view, but it ignores the idea that such a crime is a crime not only against the individual victim(s) involved but against a class of people. Maybe we can agree to disagree whether or not that aspect calls for changes in sentencing.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-28-2017, 2:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
Regarding this particular case, from what I read there were a lot of people pointing the shotguns at partygoers, but I don't believe anyone received any jail time other than the two mentioned? I could be wrong (not very impressed with the writeups I've read on this case tbh).
Others plead guilty and got less time.

I'm also against "hate crime". IMO, there should be a category for terrorizing others that would be the equivalent without regard to race or origin. IMO, if someone threatens to kill you you should be able to kill them based on the threat alone. But that would be so easy to abuse that it would be everyone's first defense after a murder.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       03-01-2017, 10:31 PM Reply   
^^^^^^^^The police can't even use that argument when a gun is pointed at them anymore according to Obama's DOJ . The DOJ wants you to basically get shot at first , so do t get your hopes up just quite yet

Last edited by xstarrider; 03-01-2017 at 10:41 PM.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-02-2017, 3:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
^^^^^^^^The police can't even use that argument when a gun is pointed at them anymore according to Obama's DOJ . The DOJ wants you to basically get shot at first , so do t get your hopes up just quite yet
I don't believe that for one second. Have police been unfairly criticized lately? I think so. Has it become harder for them to use justified deadly force? Absolutely not.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       03-02-2017, 6:43 AM Reply   
if someone threatens to kill you you should be able to kill them based on the threat alone"

In that particular event, there are not too many states that would have convicted the plantiffs if they would have opened fire on the rednecks. However, it being a kids party, probably not a good idea to start a gun fight.
Old    deltahoosier            03-02-2017, 11:56 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
I don't believe that for one second. Have police been unfairly criticized lately? I think so. Has it become harder for them to use justified deadly force? Absolutely not.
I disagree. When you know that you will be put on leave, every one will go through your laundry basket, your name will be on every leftist refrig, on every news cast and you will have people showing up at your door step......Yes, it makes it harder to use your weapon.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       03-02-2017, 12:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
I disagree. When you know that you will be put on leave, every one will go through your laundry basket, your name will be on every leftist refrig, on every news cast and you will have people showing up at your door step......Yes, it makes it harder to use your weapon.
Good, if your more afraid of someone going through your laundry than of getting shot, maybe you are not in a situation where deadly force is appropriate.
Old    deltahoosier            03-02-2017, 12:28 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
Good, if your more afraid of someone going through your laundry than of getting shot, maybe you are not in a situation where deadly force is appropriate.
Hardly. Not even the same.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       03-02-2017, 3:10 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
Hardly. Not even the same.
Good counter argument!
Allow me to retort: "Yes it is"
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       03-02-2017, 11:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
I don't believe that for one second. Have police been unfairly criticized lately? I think so. Has it become harder for them to use justified deadly force? Absolutely not.
Why don't you ask Darren Wilson ?

Have you read through the countless conscent decrees that the DOJ has been involved and what changes in the use of force policies they have made ? I have. They want you to retreat to a safe distance , they want you to de-escalate , and they want you to not put yourself into a situation where deadly force is necessary.

You don't have to believe me, look at the major cases over the last few years in the headlines. I know it sounds absurd You obviously think that as well , but I kid you not on what the DOJ recommends on the appropriate use of force in their guidelines


Forget the argument from the DOJ . You shoot someone and you're now immediately stripped of your police powers and put in time out . You sit on desk duty inside. You're treated like a criminal . Your overtime is gone , your court appearances must be confinued because you can't testify under oath while being stripped and your life is turned upside down . You're obviously Not involved in law enforcement so I wouldn't expect you to know the finer details of how things have changed . It's is 100% harder to use deadly force today. Your family is put through that same ringer. Why???????? Because you chose to protect people from the worst of the worse.......and now you're the bad guy

Last edited by xstarrider; 03-02-2017 at 11:13 PM.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       03-02-2017, 11:07 PM Reply   
Well here is plain as day .........the prime example of misappropriated prison sentences

A South Side parolee has been charged with pistol-whipping a Lakeview man and robbing the man’s girlfriend in Lakeview this month.

Prosecutors said Terrance Porter, 31, mugged the couple near their home in the 3300 block of North Seminary around 11 p.m. on February 12.

[...] Porter has been sentenced to a combined 22 years in prison since 2009 for assorted felonies. But, since Illinois loves criminals far more than it loves victims, Porter managed to get freed after serving just a fraction of his sentences. State records show that Porter was handed eight years in prison for burglary in 2009. Technically, that should’ve been enough to keep him behind bars until next month.

But, of course, it didn’t.

He was also sentenced to three years in prison for aggravated unlawful use of a weapon in a vehicle in 2010; four years for possession of electronic paraphernalia in a penal institution in 2010; and seven years for burglary in 2010.

Yet, he was paroled in 2015.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       03-02-2017, 11:17 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by plhorn View Post
Good, if your more afraid of someone going through your laundry than of getting shot, maybe you are not in a situation where deadly force is appropriate.
You obviously don't have a clue..........probably the same guy who swears by his constitutional rights out his other cheek
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-03-2017, 3:08 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Why don't you ask Darren Wilson ?

Have you read through the countless conscent decrees that the DOJ has been involved and what changes in the use of force policies they have made ? I have. They want you to retreat to a safe distance , they want you to de-escalate , and they want you to not put yourself into a situation where deadly force is necessary.

You don't have to believe me, look at the major cases over the last few years in the headlines. I know it sounds absurd You obviously think that as well , but I kid you not on what the DOJ recommends on the appropriate use of force in their guidelines


Forget the argument from the DOJ . You shoot someone and you're now immediately stripped of your police powers and put in time out . You sit on desk duty inside. You're treated like a criminal . Your overtime is gone , your court appearances must be confinued because you can't testify under oath while being stripped and your life is turned upside down . You're obviously Not involved in law enforcement so I wouldn't expect you to know the finer details of how things have changed . It's is 100% harder to use deadly force today. Your family is put through that same ringer. Why???????? Because you chose to protect people from the worst of the worse.......and now you're the bad guy
So when the police shoot someone, you don't support an investigation of the shooting? Do the police not investigate when a citizen shoots someone? Do you honestly believe that the police have never shot anyone that was not a threat?
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-03-2017, 5:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
They want you to retreat to a safe distance , they want you to de-escalate , and they want you to not put yourself into a situation where deadly force is necessary.
Gee, that sounds awful.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-03-2017, 6:29 AM Reply   
if your to stupid to not understand, Stop, Let me see your hands, or Don't move, while a police officer has his gun drawn on you then you my friend are asking for it. Thank god many people feel this way, it's just the loons that don't get it and make a stink. The Comunity organizer's policy's on police are going by by! Thank god.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-03-2017, 6:30 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Forget the argument from the DOJ . You shoot someone and you're now immediately stripped of your police powers and put in time out . You sit on desk duty inside. You're treated like a criminal . Your overtime is gone , your court appearances must be confinued because you can't testify under oath while being stripped and your life is turned upside down . You're obviously Not involved in law enforcement so I wouldn't expect you to know the finer details of how things have changed . It's is 100% harder to use deadly force today. Your family is put through that same ringer. Why???????? Because you chose to protect people from the worst of the worse.......and now you're the bad guy
Xstar -- dude I totally appreciate your service. Let's make that VERY clear first.

But what you are experiencing / complaining about is really just people acting prudently. You speak of OT like it's a right? And complain that people see you as a bad guy? Haha well politicians and lawyers get that same BS every day (know a lawyer joke? how about a dirty cop joke? <-- I don't) even though those people are also instrumental in keeping our country free.

We jail people longer than any first world nation and have more people in jail than any first world nation (as a percentage of population).

Some times you have to find satisfaction from within rather than having the world pat you on the back all the time. Lots of times doing the right thing is unpopular in the moment. Be a grown up or join the circus if what you really want is applause full time.

A big part of the reason I do appreciate the service of LEOs is because it is a tough and often thankless job, but somebody has to do it. Crying about not being thanked enough is not really persuasive (just like it's not when lawyers do it or pols do it).
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-03-2017, 7:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
if your to stupid to not understand, Stop, Let me see your hands, or Don't move, while a police officer has his gun drawn on you then you my friend are asking for it. Thank god many people feel this way, it's just the loons that don't get it and make a stink. The Comunity organizer's policy's on police are going by by! Thank god.
So I take it you don't believe in Rights in this country. It sounds like you would be happier in North Korea or China.
Old    deltahoosier            03-03-2017, 9:20 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Xstar -- dude I totally appreciate your service. Let's make that VERY clear first.

But what you are experiencing / complaining about is really just people acting prudently. You speak of OT like it's a right? And complain that people see you as a bad guy? Haha well politicians and lawyers get that same BS every day (know a lawyer joke? how about a dirty cop joke? <-- I don't) even though those people are also instrumental in keeping our country free.

We jail people longer than any first world nation and have more people in jail than any first world nation (as a percentage of population).

Some times you have to find satisfaction from within rather than having the world pat you on the back all the time. Lots of times doing the right thing is unpopular in the moment. Be a grown up or join the circus if what you really want is applause full time.

A big part of the reason I do appreciate the service of LEOs is because it is a tough and often thankless job, but somebody has to do it. Crying about not being thanked enough is not really persuasive (just like it's not when lawyers do it or pols do it).
This is the biggest piece of **** I have read in a while? Pat on the back? It is not about a pat on the back and this is such a douche take on it. It is about the ability to do your job and not have your family ruined for it or have yourself killed because some Vietnam era style politician want to legislate from the comforts of their office.

Comparing Cops to politicians and lawyers? Of course those other two positions are considered to be dishonest when a great many of them are trying to get rich off the public back while Cops on the other hand are trying to keep the public living by their contract with society (the law) or worse keep you from getting raped, robbed or murdered. Not even the same thing. Not going to see a politician or a lawyer confront a sociopath in the streets now are you?
Old    deltahoosier            03-03-2017, 9:21 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
So I take it you don't believe in Rights in this country. It sounds like you would be happier in North Korea or China.
What rights? You mean the right of a public servant having the ability to go home to their family at night while you get to drive back and forth to your cushy job?
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-03-2017, 9:38 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
It is about the ability to do your job and not have your family ruined for it or have yourself killed because some Vietnam era style politician want to legislate from the comforts of their office.
By "Vietnam era style" you mean some politician who thought it was wrong to murder 100's of thousands of innocent people to win a war of no strategic significance to the US?
Old    deltahoosier            03-03-2017, 9:42 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
By "Vietnam era style" you mean some politician who thought it was wrong to murder 100's of thousands of innocent people to win a war of no strategic significance to the US?
No, I mean some jackass in the rear trying to run a war (or a police force) by saying you can only do this on this day because of some politics instead of letting people who do this for a living do what they have to do.

On the war itself, if they did not want a war, they should have brought the troops home. In the mean time, if you have troops on the ground, you let them fight to win.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-03-2017, 9:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
No, I mean some jackass in the rear trying to run a war (or a police force) by saying you can only do this on this day because of some politics instead of letting people who do this for a living do what they have to do.
That still sounds like the people protesting carpet bombing impoverished peasants to make decadent Americans feel like God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
On the war itself, if they did not want a war, they should have brought the troops home. In the mean time, if you have troops on the ground, you let them fight to win.
Just because people don't do what they should it still doesn't justify murder. This is a good example of how being self righteous and murdering people is a lot easier when you don't actually suffer yourself in the process.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-03-2017, 10:15 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
What rights? You mean the right of a public servant having the ability to go home to their family at night while you get to drive back and forth to your cushy job?
Do I not have the same "right to go home to my family at night"?
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       03-03-2017, 10:42 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Xstar -- dude I totally appreciate your service. Let's make that VERY clear first.

But what you are experiencing / complaining about is really just people acting prudently. You speak of OT like it's a right? And complain that people see you as a bad guy? Haha well politicians and lawyers get that same BS every day (know a lawyer joke? how about a dirty cop joke? <-- I don't) even though those people are also instrumental in keeping our country free.

We jail people longer than any first world nation and have more people in jail than any first world nation (as a percentage of population).

Some times you have to find satisfaction from within rather than having the world pat you on the back all the time. Lots of times doing the right thing is unpopular in the moment. Be a grown up or join the circus if what you really want is applause full time.

A big part of the reason I do appreciate the service of LEOs is because it is a tough and often thankless job, but somebody has to do it. Crying about not being thanked enough is not really persuasive (just like it's not when lawyers do it or pols do it).


Shawn are you serious ???? Can you please point me to where I ever asked for a pat on the back or cried we don't get enough? Where you even came up with that inference I don't even know. That wasn't the intent of my post at all. If that was the case I would've quit 17yrs ago. I don't do it for thanks not have I ever looked for it.


Actually OT is a contractual right granted to us in our police contract and assigned by seniority in most cases . So yes not being able to participate in the elective overtime you qualified and earned because you were out doing your job is an issue and a problem.

I don't expect people who have no experience in law enforcement to have any clue as to what has been happening behind the scenes over the past administration. Especially regarding use of force. I don't fault you for being ignorant of it either, but its clear from this post that people really have no clue as to what has been happening . Some areas obviously are in the spotlight of those changes more than others. If you actually took all contacts with armed violent offenders in an average month , then took the percentage of those contacts that resulted in the use of lethal force , the actual percentage that police use lethal force is less than 1%. That's less than 1% of an avg monthly contact number in the 10,000's across the nation. Would you think that was the case watching the nightly national news or the focus of the DOJ on police ?


You mention having the largest incarceration rate of any 1st world country. What you failed to mention is we also have there highest violent crime rate of any 1st world country. Are you using that to make an argument that sentencing for crimes should be less ? What do you propose we do to violent offenders? I just don't see what your angle was posting that info , or what you think that info means
Old     (bcd)      Join Date: Jun 2012       03-03-2017, 10:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
So when the police shoot someone, you don't support an investigation of the shooting? Do the police not investigate when a citizen shoots someone? Do you honestly believe that the police have never shot anyone that was not a threat?
Officer Darren Wilson was investigated and found his actions justified by the DOJ. Before that, he was already convicted by the media, received numerous death threats, and forced to resign his job and relocate his family.
Old    deltahoosier            03-03-2017, 11:11 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Do I not have the same "right to go home to my family at night"?
In your view of the world, no you don't. Any two bit thug should be able to demand your belongings and your life and you are not allowed any recourse. You vote for the right to not defend yourself and you certainly do not believe in a swarn member of our law enforcement should be able to act on your behalf in the matter, so no. You do not have the right to go home safely. Matter of fact, if I were to agree with you, your white priveledge says you shouldn't. Black kids don't get to go home safely in the cites so why should you?

Last edited by deltahoosier; 03-03-2017 at 11:13 AM.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       03-03-2017, 11:19 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Gee, that sounds awful.
Maybe you'd rather walk up to the violent felon who just shot two people and give him a hug, some room for him to have a safe place , and some cookies and milk.



Scenario 1 recently in the news.

Bad guy just finishes robbing 4 people and shooting one of those 4. Carjacks a vehicle in traffic to get away . Car chase ensues , bad guy crashes , attempts to flee on foot . Cornered in a residential back yard because he's out of shape. Goes for lack of better term "mental" , he's pacing back and forth pointing a gun at his head , waving it around saying his life is over , 3 officers on scene at moment. Telling him to drop the gun , put his hands up yadada. He's refusing. Bad guy has proven he will shoot and has no problem committing violence by proof he committed 4 violent felonies just moments prior. Bad guy now makes a motion to escape by running towards a fence at 4pm in the afternoon during the school year with weapon in hand . What should these officers do?

Last edited by xstarrider; 03-03-2017 at 11:27 AM.
Old    deltahoosier            03-03-2017, 11:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Maybe you'd rather walk up to the violent felon who just shot two people and give him a hug, some room for him to have a safe place , and some cookies and milk.



Scenario 1 recently in the news.

Bad guy just finishes robbing 4 people and shooting one of those 4. Carjacks a vehicle in traffic to get away . Car chase ensues , bad guy crashes , attempts to flee on foot . Cornered in a residential back yard because he's out of shape. Goes for lack of better term "mental" , he's pacing back and forth pointing a gun at his head , waving it around saying his life is over , 3 officers on scene at moment. Telling him to drop the gun , put his hands up yadada. He's refusing. Bad guy has proven he will shoot and has no problem committing violence by proof he committed 4 violent felonies just moments prior. Bad guy now makes a motion to escape by running towards a fence at 4pm in the afternoon during the school year with weapon in hand . What should these officers do?
What a silly question. We ALL know that the officers should go help the guy over the fence. It is societies fault he is out of shape and those people should have given him the money because he was clearly poor. The children were not in danger because they weren't the tool of his oppression like those others who would not give them the money.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-03-2017, 11:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Maybe you'd rather walk up to the violent felon who just shot two people and give him a hug, some room for him to have a safe place , and some cookies and milk.
That's not anything like what you posted above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
What should these officers do?
Do what what you were trained to do and follow dept policy. If policy is wrong then it should be addressed. If policy is correct then the officer should follow it. If you think it's too much of a burden on the officer to be temporarily on desk duty with no potential for overtime after shooting someone, then you should try to convince law makers to change that policy. I personally don't find you very convincing based on your rhetoric being so bombastic. See your previous comment if you need an example. But bombastic rhetoric seems to get a lot of millage in the political scene, so maybe that's your calling.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-03-2017, 12:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Actually OT is a contractual right granted to us in our police contract and assigned by seniority in most cases . So yes not being able to participate in the elective overtime you qualified and earned because you were out doing your job is an issue and a problem.
Tip o' the hat to the lawyers on that one.

Quote:
Comparing Cops to politicians and lawyers? Of course those other two positions are considered to be dishonest when a great many of them are trying to get rich off the public back while Cops on the other hand are trying to keep the public living by their contract with society (the law) or worse keep you from getting raped, robbed or murdered. Not even the same thing. Not going to see a politician or a lawyer confront a sociopath in the streets now are you?
Like your OT contract? Thank a lawyer!
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       03-03-2017, 1:01 PM Reply   
Ahh John.

You wrote a lot of words there and didn't answer a simple question. Can't answer the tough questions eh ? You seemed to have an opinion and an answer for everything else. Come on buddy. Give the answer you believe is correct. It's a simple question. You seemed to agree with the DOJ recommendations and what their words were . Follow their guidelines and tell me what should these guys do according to those .

Don't worry your life , the 2 other people's lives and the immediate lives of families all around you aren't at a split second decision away from be changed in any way behind your computer screen. You can think , type and delete away with no consequences

Last edited by xstarrider; 03-03-2017 at 1:10 PM.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-03-2017, 5:47 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
In your view of the world, no you don't. Any two bit thug should be able to demand your belongings and your life and you are not allowed any recourse. You vote for the right to not defend yourself and you certainly do not believe in a swarn member of our law enforcement should be able to act on your behalf in the matter, so no. You do not have the right to go home safely. Matter of fact, if I were to agree with you, your white priveledge says you shouldn't. Black kids don't get to go home safely in the cites so why should you?
Did you just dream up all of this nonsense?

Let me ask you this. Do you agree with everything the GOP gets behind?
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-03-2017, 5:50 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Ahh John.

You wrote a lot of words there and didn't answer a simple question. Can't answer the tough questions eh ? You seemed to have an opinion and an answer for everything else. Come on buddy. Give the answer you believe is correct. It's a simple question. You seemed to agree with the DOJ recommendations and what their words were . Follow their guidelines and tell me what should these guys do according to those .

Don't worry your life , the 2 other people's lives and the immediate lives of families all around you aren't at a split second decision away from be changed in any way behind your computer screen. You can think , type and delete away with no consequences
If things are that bad dude, why not just quit?

Here's a question for you. When an officer pulls over a suspect, who has the higher likelihood of being killed, the officer or the suspect?
Old     (bcd)      Join Date: Jun 2012       03-03-2017, 7:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
If things are that bad dude, why not just quit?

Here's a question for you. When an officer pulls over a suspect, who has the higher likelihood of being killed, the officer or the suspect?
The fact that you ask that question about quitting means you would never understand.

Why don't you get out from behind that keyboard and do a ride along in the South side of Chicago?
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-04-2017, 7:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Ahh John.

You wrote a lot of words there and didn't answer a simple question. Can't answer the tough questions eh ? You seemed to have an opinion and an answer for everything else.
I'm not a dumba$$ like you. I can answer a lot of questions about things you couldn't begin to understand. This is not my area of expertise.

I prefer to let those who are schooled in a discipline do their job. But I don't think you need to be schooled in police work to understand that the chain of authority needs to go higher that the cop on the streets. And I don't think you need a great deal of education on the subject to realize that the people who you give authority to control others with weapons need oversight.
Old     (joeshmoe)      Join Date: Jan 2003       03-04-2017, 8:23 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
So I take it you don't believe in Rights in this country. It sounds like you would be happier in North Korea or China.
More like the republic of the Philippines! Where their president told the people,"If you know of any addicts, go ahead and kill them yourself as getting their parents to do it would be too painful." Looks like that is the way we are headed here in America!
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-04-2017, 8:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcd View Post
The fact that you ask that question about quitting means you would never understand.

Why don't you get out from behind that keyboard and do a ride along in the South side of Chicago?
Never "understand" what? I am a veteran of the US military, so don't lecture me as if I don't know what it is like to be in a hostile environment.
Old     (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       03-04-2017, 9:08 AM Reply   
A fundamental change has to happen within law enforcement. Right now the unwritten rules are to never turn in another officer for any criminal or ethical violation. Until that changes bad cops will be in the headlines. Good cops will keep looking bad. Deepening the us vs them mentality. The more military law enforcement becomes. The academy teaches that everyone is out to kill the police.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       03-06-2017, 3:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
I'm not a dumba$$ like you. I can answer a lot of questions about things you couldn't begin to understand. This is not my area of expertise.

I prefer to let those who are schooled in a discipline do their job. But I don't think you need to be schooled in police work to understand that the chain of authority needs to go higher that the cop on the streets. And I don't think you need a great deal of education on the subject to realize that the people who you give authority to control others with weapons need oversight.
Dumbass. Hahahahahahahahaha Typical. Throw insults and wind you way around everything except giving an answer. You have an answer in every other thread. Get down to the nitty gritty and you curl up in a corner in the fetal position just like a true liberal. Afraid to give your pup ions and thoughts on athe matter but want to criticize those that do. You're something else. Your true colors have shown through. No one is disputing ther needs to be a chain of command. There's a reason it's been around. . We are disputing who should make the rules and what those rules should be. Something that clearly this dumbass understands and you can'

Last edited by xstarrider; 03-06-2017 at 3:52 PM.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-06-2017, 4:14 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Dumbass. Hahahahahahahahaha Typical. Throw insults and wind you way around everything except giving an answer. You have an answer in every other thread. Get down to the nitty gritty and you curl up in a corner in the fetal position just like a true liberal. Afraid to give your pup ions and thoughts on athe matter but want to criticize those that do. You're something else. Your true colors have shown through. No one is disputing ther needs to be a chain of command. There's a reason it's been around. . We are disputing who should make the rules and what those rules should be. Something that clearly this dumbass understands and you can'
Guys like you are what give police officers a bad name. You come here wanting everyone to have sympathy for you and then you act like a world-class douche.

We get it. You want cops to govern cops. We have all seen how well that works for the non-law enforcement population.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-06-2017, 4:43 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Guys like you are what give police officers a bad name.
Every time he posts he conveys the message that cops need oversight. Glad he's not in my town.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-06-2017, 4:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
We are disputing who should make the rules and what those rules should be.
Word of advice.... If you want to be successful let someone else do the disputing.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       03-06-2017, 4:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Guys like you are what give police officers a bad name. You come here wanting everyone to have sympathy for you and then you act like a world-class douche.

We get it. You want cops to govern cops. We have all seen how well that works for the non-law enforcement population.
Wanting everyone to have sympathy ???? Please point to where that's every been asked , said , stated, or Implied. I am simply pointing out the details of the other side of the coin. Only I procide facts and real life scenarios to make the points. the tough and ugly ones nobody wants to talk about or discuss............and people seem to get all butt hurt when the facts blast them in the face and don't agree with their agenda.



And yes. I do feel experts in their respective fields should be the one making policies that effect those fields. Not people who have never worked in that field and a are put there by appointment. That goes for any field or industry. That's common sense

Last edited by xstarrider; 03-06-2017 at 4:51 PM.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       03-06-2017, 4:56 PM Reply   
LOL then you must be livid about Trump's appointments for education, HUD, and more.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       03-06-2017, 5:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Word of advice.... If you want to be successful let someone else do the disputing.
Is that a quote from your buddy George Soros ?
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-06-2017, 6:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Every time he posts he conveys the message that cops need oversight. Glad he's not in my town.
Or if you were black living in his precinct. Forget about it.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       03-06-2017, 6:31 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstarrider View Post
Wanting everyone to have sympathy ???? Please point to where that's every been asked , said , stated, or Implied. I am simply pointing out the details of the other side of the coin. Only I procide facts and real life scenarios to make the points. the tough and ugly ones nobody wants to talk about or discuss............and people seem to get all butt hurt when the facts blast them in the face and don't agree with their agenda.



And yes. I do feel experts in their respective fields should be the one making policies that effect those fields. Not people who have never worked in that field and a are put there by appointment. That goes for any field or industry. That's common sense
No, that's only "common sense" to someone that feels their profession is impeccable. Every branch of the military has a civilian Secretary in charge and it has been working fine since we declared our independence.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       03-06-2017, 11:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pesos View Post
LOL then you must be livid about Trump's appointments for education, HUD, and more.
No more than I was of Obama's same choices
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-06-2017, 11:57 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Never "understand" what? I am a veteran of the US military, so don't lecture me as if I don't know what it is like to be in a hostile environment.
Really? Please elaborate on the hostile environments you've experienced. I'd like to hear your stories so I can muster some respect for you. Your "private time" in the bathroom doesn't count either.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       03-07-2017, 6:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Really? Please elaborate on the hostile environments you've experienced. I'd like to hear your stories so I can muster some respect for you.
Just when I thought you reached your limit on douchebagginess, you manage to up your game.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-07-2017, 8:20 AM Reply   
Lighten up, Francis. I'm just joking. I honestly do want to hear the stories though.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       03-07-2017, 5:16 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Or if you were black living in his precinct. Forget about it.
I am far from the problem in my district. Trust me


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...307-story.html
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       03-07-2017, 5:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Never "understand" what? I am a veteran of the US military, so don't lecture me as if I don't know what it is like to be in a hostile environment.
Did they make you do push-ups in ROTC or something? I'd love to hear where you served, what your MOS was, and how you came to the conclusion that the civilians in charge of certain aspects of the military with no military experience at all do such a wonderful job.

Last edited by xstarrider; 03-07-2017 at 5:25 PM.

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