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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-28-2016, 11:37 AM Reply   
San Francisco supervisors unanimously approve "Mario Woods Day"

You maybe asking yourself who is Mario woods? & What did he do to observe a day of remembrance?

That's a great question!

Mario woods is a San Francisco Bay View District residence. We first learned about him because San Francisco police had been called out because Mario Woods had stabbed another person with a kitchen knife. When police confronted him at a Muni Bust stop and asked him to put down the knife that he had in his hands he refused. Police shot him with nonlethal beanbags and pepper spray at first. He still didn't comply and then lunged towards police with the knife. Police fatally shot him 15 times. (Search you tube for video of the shooting)

Que the "Black lives matter" people they March and attend San Francisco supervisors meetings and demand " justice" they demand that the SF police chief be fired.

Local investigation reports say that it was a justifiable shooting by SF police and SF mayor calls in the feds to overlook the local investigation.

San Francisco police union is up in arms and says that three officers have died in the line of duty in the last 12 years and yet none of them have received a day of remembrance? Why is this criminal, being remembered for breaking the law?



http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local...366591341.html
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       01-28-2016, 12:16 PM Reply   
W....T....F?!?! Really? First off, how in the heck did they get this petition moved through the system so fast when it just happened last month and then who is voting to approve this? Seriously, people need to think before they just take a side on that one.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-28-2016, 12:26 PM Reply   
This is libtard central. I'm not even slightly surprised.
Old     (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       01-28-2016, 1:07 PM Reply   
When Hilary is elected, it will become a national holiday!
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-28-2016, 3:32 PM Reply   
The BLM movment would attend the public hearings and pretty much start chanting & shutting down the town hall meeting demanding Justice. Do you think in anyway that the BOS some how saw a "Mario Woods Day" as a way of throwing BLM idiots some sort of bone? like here ya go! You guys won now go away? I mean come on who remembers and of these special days anyways? Mario woods day is supposed to be sometime in July (his birthday) a quick check of today "special days" brought this up

Today's holiday list: Jan 28th is

Today is Clashing Clothes Day!
Today is Daisy Day!
Today is Data Privacy Day!
Today is International Fun at Work Day!
Today is National Blueberry Pancake Day!
Today is National Kazoo Day!
Today is Rattlesnake Roundup Day!
Today is Thank a Plugin Developer Day!
Today is Women's Healthy Weight Day!
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-28-2016, 7:57 PM Reply   
The only one that makes sense is national rattlesnake roundup day since rattlesnakes are in the midst of hibernation. No harm possible. Interesting how MLK Jr. Day is in the dead of winter as well. Coincidence?
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       01-29-2016, 8:34 AM Reply   
Maybe they just want you to remember what happens when you lunge at police with a knife.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       01-29-2016, 10:25 AM Reply   
^^^that was funny.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-29-2016, 10:59 AM Reply   
x2
Old     (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       01-29-2016, 4:58 PM Reply   
Evidently nothing you'll be able to talk about but something you can be remembered for. I'd rather do something I can tell stories about later. Preferably not involving the police.
Old     (Froggy)      Join Date: Nov 2013       02-01-2016, 6:04 AM Reply   
Hard to believe the beanbags and pepper spray had no effect ? The cops must have left their batons and tasers home that day ? So I guess the only solution is to shoot him 15 times . Makes sense to me the cops were totally justified.
Old     (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       02-01-2016, 8:02 AM Reply   
I don't know who Mario Woods is. I don't know anything of the scenario and I have no opinion on the matter.
However -
When the post is titled "when the animals run the zoo" and I can tell that Grant is going to be talking about a black person - that is a problem.

More racism from Grant. Beautiful. I'm sure there was a way to be outraged about Mario Wood day that didn't involve calling black people animals but why would Grant bother with something like that when he can say what he really means?
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-01-2016, 9:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
I don't know who Mario Woods is. I don't know anything of the scenario and I have no opinion on the matter
so you start out your reply with admitting how ignorant you are on the subject! That's just perfect! next time why not educate yourself on the matter before you decide to offer your opinion or take a stance.

Eric: Animals come in ALL colors Not just black, Just like in real life. But how typical of you and your LibraTard type of redric propaganda to TRY and shame people that choose to call "spade a spade" wait does the term calling a spade a spade offend you as well!
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-01-2016, 11:44 AM Reply   
Wait a minute. Gotta start the pop corn.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       02-01-2016, 1:09 PM Reply   
Stop insulting spades you insensitive racist bastard!! lol.
Old     (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       02-01-2016, 1:25 PM Reply   
If the owner of this site was smart, he would kick you off permanently Grant. It would allow those under 60 who still wakeboard to log in without being scared off by the geezer racist and his disciples spouting off constantly. You could go join the Pontooning World and spread racist propaganda there where other people your age would welcome it. Take the other geezers who don't wakeboard anymore with you.
Old     (whiteflashwatersports1)      Join Date: Dec 2012       02-01-2016, 1:37 PM Reply   
X2 tired of Grants post that just continually stir the pot. There has to about 10 million other forums where this crap is welcome. Last I checked this site is Wakeworld.
Old     (wakesk8er2)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-01-2016, 1:42 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteflashwatersports1 View Post
X2 tired of Grants post that just continually stir the pot. There has to about 10 million other forums where this crap is welcome. Last I checked this site is Wakeworld.
you're in the NON-wakeboarding discussion complaining that the subject is not wakeboarding.
Old     (whiteflashwatersports1)      Join Date: Dec 2012       02-01-2016, 1:50 PM Reply   
Not complaining just tired of Grant's posts. I will take responsibility for myself and just not click on anything he posts.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-01-2016, 2:59 PM Reply   
Hey how about this! Take a poll. If my post is Deemed Racist, then I will pack my bags and split. That sounds fair!
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-01-2016, 10:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverRider View Post
It would allow those under 60 who still wakeboard...
Pick a number higher than 60.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-01-2016, 10:14 PM Reply   
^^^lol! Best post of the thread! Winner!
Old     (Froggy)      Join Date: Nov 2013       02-02-2016, 3:20 PM Reply   
I for one am sick of the word Racist. What does it even mean anymore? Every time something is said that someone doesn't agree with its racism . You don't even have to know anything about the subject to make the accusation ? I don't think the police were in the right with this shooting but I also don't think race had anything to do with it.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-02-2016, 4:38 PM Reply   
first off the term "when the animals run the zoo" is not a Racist term. It was Not directed at Mario Woods as the ill informed poster above mentioned. The term was levied at the voters who elected the supervisors that ultimately approved the "Day of Remberance" for said victim who's race or color has NO bearing on the topic. Here in SF The BLM movement that stormed and protested the supervisors meeting and pressured the supervisors in there decision for the "day of Remberance" are also a mixed bunch of colors & race including white.

But it seems to be very "fashionable" to throw the Race car out as Eric and others like to do. It's a way of putting a mute on people that like to speak openly. Silence is a form of consent, I don't agree with the supervisors decision to grant a day of Remberance to a Criminal who was caught just after stabbing another person with a knife, who refused police orders and after non-lethal devices were used to try and stop him.

I to was in question about the 15-16 shots that Mario Woods received. Why does some one need to be shot that many times??? SF police chief did respond about the 15 shots. He said it's called "support Fire" you have a guy surrounded by 5-10 police everyone has their weapon drawn. When
one officer opens fire the other officers open fire as well. So you can see with the amount of cops that surrounded him and they lets each shot 1 to 3 times you could possiblely end up with a lot of dranaige holes.

Btw a CHP officer was just slashed today very badly in the chest and treica, His was cut very bad by a "Homeless person" with a knife. (Sorry Eric) don't know or care what race the homeless person was, so you cant pull out your race card! If you have ever trained you know that a person with a knife can Cut you up very fast. people with bladed devices are not to be messed with. To bad the roach got away and they didn't blast him. He should be taking a dirt nap right next to Mario Woods but that's just my 2c
Old     (Laker1234)      Join Date: Mar 2010       02-02-2016, 6:25 PM Reply   
Grant, when confronted with an opinion other than their own, libs either result to name calling. asking irrelevant questions, or throw the racist card. For what it's worth, I had no idea what the post was about when I first saw the title and still don't see anything "racist"about it. The lack of respect for the police is a serious problem in our country. I know they are not perfect--none of us are--but they are the only thing between us and some very bad people. It's also easy to judge what you'd do if someone pulled a knife on while sitting on the couch.
Old     (bcd)      Join Date: Jun 2012       02-02-2016, 7:38 PM Reply   
This is what happens when everyone gets a trophy
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-02-2016, 10:03 PM Reply   
^^^bingo!
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-03-2016, 6:05 AM Reply   
The police are no friend of people with mental illnesses. The videos do make it look like a murder.
Old     (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       02-03-2016, 9:00 AM Reply   
Police have a right to go home to their family's at night. He had a knife he did not comply, he lunged they shot him until he was neutralized.

What more needs to be said.

You shoot him once and he still might get to you with that knife.
Old     (Froggy)      Join Date: Nov 2013       02-03-2016, 9:20 AM Reply   
The police have moved from being a peace officer to a law enforcement officer with a lot more attention to enFORCEment. They are being used mostly for revenue generation instead of crime prevention. They are more afraid for their own safety than to protect the safety of others. There are a lot of bad cops and the good cops either cant or wont expose them. Even when caught in the act the cop is more likely to get off than not. So the overall people fear the police and the police fear the people. No doubt the worst thing that ever happened to police is cell phone cameras exposing them for what they really are not that it matters they will not be prosecuted anyway.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-03-2016, 9:52 AM Reply   
BCD's Comment of " this is what happens when everyone gets a trophy"

Funny how obscure and seemingly off topic that comment was but at the exact same time spot on!

When you rewind and get to the root of it. There is a right way to act and a wrong way. Somehow the Libs took right and wrong and turned it into "intolerant"

Example Junior gets out of line at school and when they are expelled or punish the parents come down on the school as if they are the ones who acted out. The same goes for many police interactions. Yeah so let me get this straight you stab the person you're wielding a knife you refuse police commands to put it down and then when you get shot somehow the police are at fault ?

Talk about flipping the script!
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-03-2016, 12:49 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonblarc7 View Post
Police have a right to go home to their family's at night. He had a knife he did not comply, he lunged they shot him until he was neutralized.
Absolutely. But when I saw the video I knew there was something wrong with the guy in the head. So I searched his name and mental illness and got a bunch of hits. I have no respect for police who put themselves in danger with the attitude that they can just kill as the the only alternative. People who are nuts are not an example of people being coddled into thinking they are entitled.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-03-2016, 1:22 PM Reply   
^^^ oh you mean like the gentle giant ^^^^

Paleeeeze! Mentally ill or insane or drunk or just plaine stupid. It brings us back to the original Theme (there's a right way to act and There is a wrong way to act)

I like the Japanese term that deals with Miss Fitts or people that want to go against the grain in society the saying is.

" The nail that sticks up gets hammered down"

If you can't understand the term "put the knife down" "freeze or stop" "put your hands up etc. then you're the nail that sticking up.

Americans have a similar saying "if you're going to be stupid then you better be tough"

Last edited by grant_west; 02-03-2016 at 1:26 PM.
Old     (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       02-03-2016, 2:03 PM Reply   
Did you see the lady pull the cop over for speeding?
Old     (iShredSAN)      Join Date: Apr 2012       02-03-2016, 2:26 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
The police are no friend of people with mental illnesses. The videos do make it look like a murder.
Police: "sir put down the weapon! Do you have a mental illness or are you mentally ill?!"

(Guy holding weapon nods and lunges at officer with weapon)

Police: "well he said he's mentally ill so we better run away before he kills us..."


See where I'm going with this? If you are a danger to people it shouldn't matter. Act right or you will be forced to one way or another.
Old     (iShredSAN)      Join Date: Apr 2012       02-03-2016, 2:28 PM Reply   
^ or to put it in better terms: If the guy in question were to kill your daughter, son etc because police did not take him down due to "mental illness" would you still feel that way or would you wish they would have handled it as needed?
Old     (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       02-03-2016, 2:32 PM Reply   
The police are taught 21 feet...anybody with a knife can get to you before you can draw your gun...so you are in deadly danger at or within 21 feet of a knife weilding suspect
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-03-2016, 3:00 PM Reply   
"See where I'm going with this?"

Absolutely. Justifying killing without any consideration for taking alternate action by making up fake scenarios.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-03-2016, 3:53 PM Reply   
The video I saw they have him surrounded. (That's great)
All the cops have their gun drawn. The 21 foot or further rule refers to you maintaing @ least 21 feet WITH OUT your gun drawen.

The cops are surrounding him so as to NOT let him leave the seen and make contact or endanger any one else.

He was boxed in. Cops had there weapons drawn. His only options were #1 give up and drop the knife. #2 once boxed in the cops were pulling back at the same time closing potential escape routes.
Mario woods walked directly into the cops "Escalating" NOT de escalating the situation! Mario woods is dead today because of what "Mario Woods " did end of story.

Had he not had a weapon in his hand
Had he not been moving forward into the cops

You might have a argument.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-04-2016, 7:22 AM Reply   
"You might have a argument."

I'm pretty sure you don't even know what my argument is.
Old     (bcd)      Join Date: Jun 2012       02-04-2016, 11:14 AM Reply   
At least he didn't have a gun being mentally ill. Maybe Obama is on to something.
Old     (bcd)      Join Date: Jun 2012       02-04-2016, 11:26 AM Reply   
I don't understand why people are afraid of police. It's not that hard. If you have a weapon and they tell you to drop it, you drop it and you don't get shot. Really, who on here has even been close to being in this situation? Maybe you got a speeding ticket or some other misdemeanor and now you don't like the police. Most police are not corrupt or bad, or racist and trying to kill black people, although that's what a lot of the media and, maybe president, want you to believe. They want to do a good job and come home safely to their families. They go to work knowing that they may have to make a split second decision to either shoot someone or not and that decision could either end up with them dead or being broadcast nationally and blown way out of proportion with twisted made up "facts".
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-04-2016, 11:41 AM Reply   
Oh really...

http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2...t_paralyz.html

No I'm not afraid of the police because I'm an innocuous old white guy that doesn't fit any dangerous statistical profile and is cognitive of the fact that you have zero rights when dealing with the police. So I use that knowledge and the lack of any inherent distrust that someone of my profile will be treated badly to interact in such a way as to defuse any possible situation.
Old    deltahoosier            02-04-2016, 11:57 AM Reply   
Nice article John. With people of color murdering each other by the 1000's in democrat run cities, I can see where the cop could be pressured into a mistake. The jury may have been correct as well as to offer a judgement.

Don't want to get shot, don't dress and replicate actions of those who murder by the thousands each year. Don't give attitude. Don't reach into your waste band. Don't force someone with a gun to have to make a choice with you. Sometimes it goes wrong.

Are we lucky that 'white culture' has a different understanding and emotional management of these situations? Sure. Here is to thousands of years of evolution of a culture. At the end of the day, if your culture does horrible things to each other and continually demands/ riots to keep that culture separate from the other cultures, then we are going to have issues like this.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-04-2016, 12:17 PM Reply   
So slavery or even denial of civil rights and being considered unequal or less than human was the admirable result of thousands of years of the evolution of a culture? If you fit into a dangerous statistical profile by birth then you are disadvantaged in your interaction by the police.

It's not the cops that are at fault as much as it is the culture of the dept. Sometimes the police do put themselves at risk to not kill.

http://www.wesh.com/news/deputyinvol...ounty/37807732

Also I'm curious as to what methods a republican run city uses to stop blacks from killing each other?
Old    deltahoosier            02-04-2016, 12:58 PM Reply   
Nothing admirable about your individual culture. The Irish were sold by the thousands by the British. At some point a culture needs to stand up and make a change for itself. Asians do fine. Hispanics do relatively well. More and more African decedents are doing well, however there are very vocal voices who are interested in keeping blacks out of mainstream America. If a person such as a Ben Carson, Condi Rice, and so on leave the plantation, they are disregarded by their culture for being white. How is that cultural divide allowed to stand? Why is it encouraged?

Yes, being born the wrong color in the wrong town does put you at a disadvantage if you are in a area that is known for dangerous activities. It is not an easy issue. Dress like a "normal" society member, a person becomes a target for gangs. Dress like a gang banger, you scare the crap out of cops that know statistically you have a weapon and have more likely than not have used it to rob or murder another person. Sometimes cops let their guard down because this little white girl could do no wrong and they end up loosing their career because of a injury caused by it. Sometimes cops end up shot in the face from a normal looking person because they did not know the person just robbed a place and were only being stopped for a tail light. At the end of the day, cops want to go home too. majority make great decisions each day. Some get hired that should have never been hired. You can't find out due to our workplace laws that respect a certain privacy of perspective employees. They try and weed them out but sometimes people do the wrong things. Why in the world would a sane person want to temp fate?

Why, feeling the way democrats seem to feel about cops, do democrats constantly strive for more central control over our lives when they see how dealing with the enforcement side of the government goes for people? Cops are only trying to enforce all the laws that society passes.

We should study Republican ran cities. Obviously democrat cities don't have it figured out. Chicago had 51 murders in January alone. In San Fran, a Chicago news crew was just robbed of their equipment just the other day. Robbing news crews in San Fran happens quite a bit even in broad daylight.

I would say that Republican ran cities don't give into this notion of cultural segregation. They are harder on welfare. They support the police into being tough of gang activity. They don't treat people as protected classes. Treating people equally is not a bad idea. Everyone knows not to feed the animals because they become dependent. Heck even a democrat president made a off color remark about keeping black people voting democrat for 80 years by giving them just enough to keep them voting but not enough to allow them off the plantation.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-04-2016, 1:36 PM Reply   
"Why in the world would a sane person want to temp fate?"

Which draws full circle to my original claim that the cops are no friend to the mentally ill. Try not to develop a culture that the police can place themselves in danger because their backup is overwhelming fatal force.

If you could study Republican cities you might find that the predominate population is working white people. There can be many reasons that correlations can be drawn. Blacks only obtained equal rights under the law in the 60's. They still had to battle discrimination that cannot be legislated out of existence. If that wasn't enough their emergence as equal citizens also correlated with the decline of manufacturing jobs, unions, and the replacement of living wage jobs with low paying service industry jobs. America found that hard work could be devalued by simply employing impoverished workers that live in what we would describe as substandard conditions. Even replacing workers with robots would have been preferable because it would have at least sealed the economic leak that causes the govt to borrow and refill the economy.
Old     (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-04-2016, 1:45 PM Reply   
This is America. The land of the free. Education is what gets you a good job and keeps you alive.People are not responsible for their actions but Police are. Interesting? It's the policemans fault their victims don't listen? Animals are smart enough to heed a superior animals warning. If they aren't they won't make that mistake again. If that same mentally ill man killed someone with his car,gun,knife or hammer wouldn't he be innocent? He didn't know any better. He would be put in a mental institution and given treatment. Why wasn't Mario in treatment? Someone didn't care enough about him to protect him from himself. Police don't have the right to protect themselves? If you ever served in the military in wartime, did you ask everyone you shot at if they were mentally ill? Sometimes we all need to just take responsibility for our actions and God will judge you in the end.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-04-2016, 1:53 PM Reply   
With all that black and white thinking I'm surprised you finished up with a "sometimes".
Old     (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       02-04-2016, 2:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
With all that black and white thinking I'm surprised you finished up with a "sometimes".
Good point John. I always accept responsibility for my actions. Am I always right? No , but I learn from my mistakes. Which goes back to my point on education. I'm still learning everyday because I have an open mind and thirst for more knowledge everyday.
Old     (Froggy)      Join Date: Nov 2013       02-04-2016, 3:12 PM Reply   
So the police hit him with bean bag shots and pepper spray then surrounded him so he could not escape. At that point the Only solution was to shoot him 15 times?
I guess they all forgot their tasers and batons that day .But its OK the cops just wanted to all be safe and go home to their family's?
Old    deltahoosier            02-04-2016, 3:27 PM Reply   
I agree John. The police are not a friend of the mentally ill. 100% agree. I would never call the ward of the state to get involved with a family mater unless it was absolutely without question the last resort. It is a vicious circle. A perfect line is from the movie The Fugitive with Harrison Ford. He was trapped in the dam and he says, "I didn't kill my wife" and Tommy Lee Jones replies, "I don't care". Obviously a movie but it applies. Most cops don't like the laws they have to enforce. They want to go home. If they get triggered into fight or flight, they have been selected to fight (even if they were able to cover up their natural reaction to flight in training). They do not have the option to run. They don't care what the person's mind is. Most of the times when they are dispatched, the people they are dealing with are in some sort of triggered state to begin with.

I agree with part of your assertion of working white people in Republican cities. I will provide you a direct contrast. In Oakland and San Fran, they are clearly in some of the wealthiest job rich environments in the world. Uber liberal society. plenty of colleges that are relatively cheap to attend and with preferential scholarship and admission policies. The cities themselves are ran by minorities. Yet, the black population still has a way out of wack unemployment rate. Each of those cites and the ones in between average over 100 murders each every year. Strictest gun laws. One thing I notice is how willing people in those areas are willing to blame other people besides their selves. The inability to take responsibility is a personality disorder.

I, for a non city person when I would go to the city, have been fist pumped at hoping I would do a white person thing (they were wrong), threatened to be thrown in front of a train because I would not give a guy money, and me and my in laws chanted at "death to white people, children of satan" on a train full of people. I know many others who have had worse. Go back to Indianapolis and I have black people talking to me out of no where asking where I am from and just shooting the crap. They leave the tables out in the mall down town and you can walk through the mall at night. My wife grew up in the Bay Area and she wanted to stay in Indy. We have Raider fan friends that went to Indy for a football game and they could not believe how nice the people were. Part of it is, growing up there we did not have time to worry about black white crap because if we did not work, we did not get money to live.

Much of what is going on in the inner city is idle hands and the stories they tell each other about what white people have done to them all while killing each other by the thousands.
Old    deltahoosier            02-04-2016, 3:29 PM Reply   
Froggy. what would you have done if you had a knife and just got hit with pepper spray and bean bags? would you have dropped it? What would you expect the reaction to be of someone knowing you just stabbed a person and just withstood that action? What would you have done if you were the police at that point?
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-04-2016, 3:42 PM Reply   
The best motivation to create a population of responsible people is to provide clearer paths to making meaningful contributions and the ability to support oneself and a family. It's a issue of statistics. In the absence of that we see a degradation of society that cannot be solved by punishment or the abolishment of assistance for basic needs. Of course this doesn't address the issue of mental illness, but one might conclude that the more people who can find productive lives the safer the police will be and the more compassion that can be exhibited.

Just to give you an idea of why this particular issue speaks to me is that I have some personal experience with a step family member. She was a beautiful sweet young lady who had severe mental illness issues from being molested by her grandfather as a young child. She never owned a gun, brandished a knife, or threatened to hurt anyone but herself. Basically she was charged with multiple felony accounts for being defiant and touching a cop. She was still on probation although had completed the requirements. She lived with me and I forcibly took her to a mental health hospital because of an episode in hopes of getting her admitted though something called a Baker Act where if you are demonstrated to be a danger to yourself and others can be confined against your will for evaluation. Unfortunately family members cannot do this and the hospital told me to call 911 because the police could. She committed no crime and the police concluded she was no danger. Then told her she was free to go. But she was upset and one of the cops told her to sit on a bench and put his hands on her in what appeared to be an attempt to console her. She pushed them away and he told if she did it again she would be arrested. She did and told him to arrest her.

He charged her with felony battery and the prosecution offered 2 years of prison. She then committed what appeared to be suicide by stepping in front of a train.

I'm going to bow out of this thread now and give you guys a break.
Old    deltahoosier            02-04-2016, 4:01 PM Reply   
Sorry to hear that John. mental health is huge in this country. So many degenerates that do things to children and adults alike. PTSD in children caused by negative influences is huge. It can lead to all sorts of personality disorders and people really are not trained to handle people like that. They give even the best therapists fits.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-04-2016, 4:38 PM Reply   
What was appalling was that the police could have immediately used that to justify a Baker Act, gone home, and felt good about themselves. We were 30' from from the door. And even though the police report indicated that her family was trying to Baker Act her the prosecution wanted 2 years in prison for someone who was disturbed from childhood sexual abuse and no record of ever doing anything except exhibiting defiance towards the police without anything that anyone would construe as violence if they witnessed it.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-04-2016, 4:42 PM Reply   
You're right... Never call the cops to help with a troubled family member unless you really want the worst possible outcome. A lesson I learned in the worst possible way.
Old    deltahoosier            02-04-2016, 4:53 PM Reply   
Again. I wonder why people want to vote for more laws and regulation. Laws are written for the masses. They are not intended to deal with the in between. I will not say you will always get the worst outcome if you call, however it is a big roll of the dice. You have put yourself one screw up from ending your life as you know it. In fairness, domestic disputes are a big killer of police officers. I always want to be 3 steps away from the government wrong side.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-04-2016, 5:13 PM Reply   
Republicans in Florida just passed a law preventing local communities from passing laws banning fracking. This is a state sitting on porous limestone that provides all our drinking water. This country wouldn't exist without the rule of law. The issue isn't about the passage of laws. It's about the people who pass them, what they believe, and why they do it.
Old    deltahoosier            02-04-2016, 5:32 PM Reply   
Again though, that is the bigger institution passing laws over the smaller institution. Remember, fracking was industry overcoming government because government has snuggled up to the environmental fascist who are trying to use the environment to weaken the US economy so they can share the wealth to the 3rd world. The government created the market that made fracking viable.

also, the water near Kissimmee (sp?) tastes like sulfer.

Last edited by deltahoosier; 02-04-2016 at 5:35 PM.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-04-2016, 5:44 PM Reply   
this guy pretty much sums it up


http://youtu.be/fFJvZtgyXRE
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-04-2016, 5:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
Remember, fracking was industry overcoming government because government has snuggled up to the environmental fascist who are trying to use the environment to weaken the US economy so they can share the wealth to the 3rd world.
Vs the anti environmentalist who wants to make America competitive with the 3rd world by turning it into the same kind of toxic ****hole.

I'm having a little trouble remembering that rationale because I've never known industry decide to find new ways to make money solely to take a stand on principle.
Old    deltahoosier            02-04-2016, 6:25 PM Reply   
I don't know enough about fracking to be honest. Putting water into place where oil once was seems to be of help not hinderance on the first order.

I think people are anti environmentalist because they can see it is being as a control mechanism and not doing anything more for the environment. Remember just like civil rights, Republicans founded conservationism. They are for freedom for all. I just think that common sense is good but control for control sake is bad. I think most agree.

In california, they passed cap and trade. You think that is going to change california's air one bit? Nope. It is a indirect tax aiming to take 15 billion a year into the coffers while also giving kick backs to large land owners "for not developing their land". They could not develop the land anyway. People are tired of that crap. Kyoto treaty. what good would it have done. The biggest polluters were not mandated to change a thing. Yet we have enviro fascists falling over themselves to get treaties and laws like that passed.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-04-2016, 7:13 PM Reply   
Or people are environmentalists because they don't trust industry to sacrifice a single penny to protect it without regulation. A scenario that has been proven over and over. And who could ever find an example of the opposite. Republicans just poisoned the crap out of the population of Flint proving that the environment and concern for the welfare of the people is something easily ignored. They even restored GM's access to Lake Huron water after it was found to be corroding auto parts washed in it. But continued supplying it to the population. They fed it to prisoners denying them the right to choose clean bottled water, which is easily a violation of the Constitutions 8th amendment.

I don't like cap and trade because the right to sell the right to pollutes offends my sensibilities. Climate change is a complex issue. But climate change is not the environmental issue that defines the legitimacy of all all the other environmental issues. The US has led the world on per capita consumption for a long time. Our desire to consume so much that we pitted American against impoverished workers. The effects to sustain that excessive consumption has elevated consumption by other nations while simultaneously inflating our debt.

There is logic is the argument that we need to pay other countries to limit that for the good of the world. We can't eat nearly all the ice cream and then find it it's bad for the environment and demand those who didn't get much to limit their consumption as the same time we do. Whether those sorts of policies can be enacted in meaningful way with solid reasoning is another issue. And whether it is possible at all to protect the habitability around the planet is a debatable issue on it's own. But one thing for sure is that doing things that affect the ecosystem without any knowledge of how disastrous it could be until it goes out of balance with again no clue of how to stop it simply in the name of consumption is a terrible philosophy..

Fracking isn't done with pure water. And even if it were it would involve displacing oil from a location where it hasn't effected ground water quality with extremely high pressures. There is no reason to trust industry. That's why the Hubble telescope couldn't see straight when it was first launched. Not because engineers couldn't get it right the first time but because they were denied the right to guarantee it on a gamble.
Old     (wiscxstar)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-04-2016, 7:54 PM Reply   
Deltahoosier - you do realize that then (after President Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act) the GOP nominated super conservative Barry Goldwater (instead of the liberal Rockefeller). Goldwater believed the civil rights act was unconstitutional paving the change of both parties.

Also, fracking doesn't put clean water back into the earth,it injects a mixture of water, chemicals, and sands.

The Love Canal, the Libby Asbestos Contamination, Tennessee Coal Ash Spill, Exxon Valdez Oil spill....just companies trying to be free from the terrible regulations. Maybe your right, we should deregulate even further, that would probably save us.
Old     (bcd)      Join Date: Jun 2012       02-05-2016, 3:58 AM Reply   
If you don't like how the police act now, wait for what's coming. When I say how the police I act now, I mean generalizing the whole police community by the actions of a few, including some actions that were justified but twisted and blown out of proportion by the media selling the news.

No one wants to be a police officer anymore. Since no one is applying anymore, cities are being forced to take anyone they can get, so imagine what kind of bottom of the barrel, chip on their shoulder people they are hiring.
Old     (Froggy)      Join Date: Nov 2013       02-05-2016, 5:27 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
Froggy. what would you have done if you had a knife and just got hit with pepper spray and bean bags? would you have dropped it? What would you expect the reaction to be of someone knowing you just stabbed a person and just withstood that action? What would you have done if you were the police at that point?
I have never been hit with bean bags or pepper spray but I have seen the results of them. Unless he was on PCP or superman I doubt he was in good enough shape to attack and strike successfully. Did the cops run out of bean bags and pepper spray ? What about their tasers or other nonlethal weapons the cops are loaded down with these days? If shooting him was the ONLY way to stop him then why 15 shots . This was a public execution they sentenced him to death no way were they just trying to stop him.
Old     (Froggy)      Join Date: Nov 2013       02-05-2016, 5:42 AM Reply   
'' Republicans just poisoned the crap out of the population of Flint ''

John you do know that the Mayer and most of the city officials of Flint are Liberal Democrats ? I doubt they consulted with the governor before switching water supply sources in an effort to pay some of the massive dept the city has. This inst a Democrat /Republican thing bottom line is you just cant fix stupid.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-05-2016, 7:14 AM Reply   
Froggy, admittedly I don't know where the chain of command was in the decision and authorization of such an activity. I made that statement because to date I only seen information that suggests the decision was at a higher level. So in the interest of being fair I did a bit of research before finishing this post and found that if you do the same your doubt of consulting with the gov will be dispelled. He was clearly part of the picture You will also find that the city officials appear to be somewhat out of the picture in the chain of command. And I stress the word "appear".

You may conclude the same as me that the only way to ascertain where the true responsibility lies is to investigate while making the greatest efforts to be politically unbiased.
Old    deltahoosier            02-05-2016, 10:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiscxstar View Post
Deltahoosier - you do realize that then (after President Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act) the GOP nominated super conservative Barry Goldwater (instead of the liberal Rockefeller). Goldwater believed the civil rights act was unconstitutional paving the change of both parties.

Also, fracking doesn't put clean water back into the earth,it injects a mixture of water, chemicals, and sands.

The Love Canal, the Libby Asbestos Contamination, Tennessee Coal Ash Spill, Exxon Valdez Oil spill....just companies trying to be free from the terrible regulations. Maybe your right, we should deregulate even further, that would probably save us.
The parties absolutely did not change. Goldwater was against the civil rights act based on states rights. He was out of touch with the mainstream at the time.

Fact: The historic Civil Rights Act of 1964 (after Goldwater) was supported by a higher percentage of Republicans than Democrats in both houses of Congress. In the House, 80 percent of the Republicans and 63 percent of the Democrats voted in favor. In the Senate, 82 percent of the Republicans and 69 percent of the Democrats voted for it.

Fact: Contrary to popular misconception, the parties never "switched" on racism. The Democrats just switched from overt racism to a subversive strategy of getting blacks as dependent as possible on government to secure their votes. At the same time, they began a cynical smear campaign to label anyone who opposes their devious strategy as greedy racists.

In the 1960s the Democratic Party changed its strategy for dealing with African Americans. Thanks to earlier Republican initiatives on civil rights, blatant racial oppression was no longer a viable political option. Whereas before that time Southern Democrats had overtly and proudly segregated and terrorized blacks, the national Democratic Party decided instead to be more subtle and get them as dependent on government as possible. As LBJ so elegantly put it (in a famous moment of candor that was recorded for posterity), "I'll have those ******s voting Democratic for the next 200 years." At the same time, the Democrats started a persistent campaign of lies and innuendo, falsely equating any opposition to their welfare state with racism.

As far as regulation, never said regulations were bad. What I do say is that there is a point where you move from good conservation (a republican idea) to trying to remove wealth from America (a democrat idea).
Old    deltahoosier            02-05-2016, 10:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Froggy View Post
I have never been hit with bean bags or pepper spray but I have seen the results of them. Unless he was on PCP or superman I doubt he was in good enough shape to attack and strike successfully. Did the cops run out of bean bags and pepper spray ? What about their tasers or other nonlethal weapons the cops are loaded down with these days? If shooting him was the ONLY way to stop him then why 15 shots . This was a public execution they sentenced him to death no way were they just trying to stop him.
I agree, if you hit someone with that stuff you would have to assume drugs. good enough shape has nothing to do with it. PCP makes almost anyone superman. The guy has a knife. Please take an unbiased google search on what people can do with knifes. What is considered a dangerous distance a knife wielding presents. You will find, pepper spray is not an option because you can not be close enough. Yes, they do run out of bean bags. They may not have been in tazer range either.

They would not have shot him if he did not approach them. You have what appears to be a drugged up individual with a knife who just stabbed someone. He starts your way, what do you do? If you have a gun, you shot him. Period. You shoot until the suspect is down period. center of mass. That is the training. One bullet is not like hardcore on call of duty. It does not work that way especially with a potentially drugged up person. A single bullet unless it hits the perfect spot will not drop a person. Do some research on that as well. It only takes a couple seconds to empty a magazine.
Old    deltahoosier            02-05-2016, 10:51 AM Reply   
John,

I don't trust business either. Heck, the EPA just destroyed a river out west. Don't hear much about that because some company did not do it. Don't want people to distrust the EPA. I don't trust businesses to do the right things but I am not stupid enough to place the some myopic view of the government that they are all good either.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-05-2016, 10:53 AM Reply   
^^^^ why do we always point backwards^^^^

How many times have we heard from the Lib's It's Bush's Fault!

If you bought a car and the previous owner sold it to you with 4 flat tires would you just drive around with 4 flats and constantly blame the previous owner for the rough ride?

Fly your supposed to be the educated person of superior wisdom here? Please explain this point backward policy that you preach?
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-05-2016, 11:20 AM Reply   
" Heck, the EPA just destroyed a river out west."

Half truth. The EPA accidently destroyed a river (assuming for eternity) by releasing an ecological disaster created by free enterprise.

"^^^^ why do we always point backwards^^^^"

Because there are two ways to predict the future.

1) Study the past.
2) Study human nature.

"Fact: Contrary to popular misconception, the parties never "switched" on racism."

Not fact, but based on the opinions of people who have their own interpretation of supporting rationale. It is far to complex a subject to easily draw such simplistic conclusions.

"The historic Civil Rights Act of 1964 (after Goldwater) was supported by a higher percentage of Republicans than Democrats in both houses of Congress."

Also supported and passed under the auspices of a Democrat who murdered 10's of thousands of Americans engaging in a war of no strategic significance to the US. Which just goes to show that the ideology of the individual is what needs to be studied.

The ideology of Bush is still prevasive among Republicans, which is why pointing back to his mistakes is still relevant.
Old    deltahoosier            02-05-2016, 4:20 PM Reply   
Maybe a half truth, however if a oil company accidently spills you certain hear that they are all at fault.

I can point you to the whole discussion that goes down different angles on whether the parties actually switched including voting records of democrat counties that only voted for Goldwater and had never voted republican before or since. I have seen some pretty decent breakdowns of the argument. The most basic argument I get is Republican used to be liberal and now are conservative, democrats used to be conservative and now are liberal. That is simplistic.

I would also point that continually telling a group of people that they are not able to compete with white people so you need special treatment is racists.

As far as Bush goes? He was a decent man. Loves America. Beyond that he mostly tried to let a split congress do it's job. Only issue was the war where intellectually dishonest democrats lied about their vote and support for attacking Iraq. They used it as a differential to the Republicans to win back the house and senate and move the party to radicalism from where it has not recovered. Once they won congress and had the president, they did nothing to defund the war and bring the troops home. Mater of fact, Saddam and Bin Laden are dead and we are still in Afgahnistan. So much for the anti war party. The support for Bush is more about the push back of the lies of the left than anything.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-05-2016, 4:57 PM Reply   
"I would also point that continually telling a group of people that they are not able to compete with white people so you need special treatment is racists."

I agree that reparationists are misguided.

I never drilled down to the detail of which Dems lied about their vote. Since it was a matter of record that was not an issue with me. And in fact we've had a long standing disagreement in that I have always asserted, no Bush, no war in Iraq. That will never change.

I have never believed that members of Congress had the combination of intellegence (i.e CIA/Pentegon LOL not what you thought) or the individual responsibilty (not moral, but authority on an individual basis) to expect accountabilty for the decision. IOW the executive office had extreme accountabilty compared to the individual accountibility of Congrees members. This is a bipartisan point of view. Neither republican or democrat members are at fault for anything other than depending on how Bush influenced the mood of nation.

The responsibility fell on the executive office's shoulder to use the massive amount of resources it wielded to make the right decision. Even "if" an argument could be made that a competent President could of made a +1 contribution to the decision based on suspected WMDs and that's still debatable. It would have been easily predictable that chaos would ensue based on the makeup of the majority oppressed population. I'm not talking about easily predictable by the general population, which members of Congress are not much more than. But predictable by those in the know, the executive office.

Remember, it was Bush that soon announced that Iran was the Axis of Evil soon after. Not Congress. One could easily argue that only the executive office has the expertise to see this coming. Certainly not the members of Congress on an individual basis. It's pretty obvious that Bush knew that Iran was the Axis of Evil when he decided to free the oppressed majority that was ideologically aligned with said Axis. From that perspective Bush took a secret gamble that looks like total lunacy.

Push back based on insisting that total lunacy was a good idea has proven to be a bad idea. Assuming that is what it was.
Old    deltahoosier            02-05-2016, 6:03 PM Reply   
haha. I have a long list of quotes by democrats that prove they wanted to go after Saddam and encouraged Bush to go after him. Those too are a mater of public record.

There is a committee in congress that their only purpose is to look at the intel. It was ran by democrats. The president went to the UN even and they voted on a resolution. While it was misguided to take down Saddam, he had plenty of people who voted for it to happen. Even with that, the democrats had the power of the purse to not let it happen. They had congress and the presidency to pull out of the wars. We are still at war and our troops are dying to this day over there. Where is the democrats in the streets? Where are the protesters? Not a word. Why? because the war was only bad because Bush did it. If a democrat did it, it would have been fine. They would have did it too because the country wanted revenge. Their whole approach was politics.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-05-2016, 6:28 PM Reply   
Yes, this is a rehash. No change on the no Bush, no Iraq war.

Obama did get us out of Iraq. And he did oppose the war including Sanders. I disagree with his position on Syria. I also disagree with post war nation building, but don't blame that on Bush. But the illogical actions of his administration of building a new Iraq with a known Iran sympathetic leader is nothing short of bizarre. Yes this is water over the dam and the new problem is that Republicans still have trouble saying it was a mistake and continue to align themselves with the same mistaken policies. Probably not Trump or maybe even Cruz who both seem to have completely different issues.

I would rather have democrats who are appalled by their mistakes and try to distance themselves even if there's an element of intellectual dishonesty, than republicans who try to save face by continue to seem to think it's ok. Regardless even Hillary is not where I want her to be on foreign policy. So sometimes the discriminators have to be other things.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       02-05-2016, 6:40 PM Reply   
Here's what I consider a kicker. If Jeb Bush had come out exhibiting a strong belief that the Iraq War was a massive blunder that should not be repeated I suspect his chances of becoming the nominee would have gone up. He could have easily avoided placing blame by saying that he respects and loves his brother and there is no shortage of people who can debate blame. It would have made him sympathetic to the public and assured them there was no underlying motive to back to Iraq to vindicate his brother's administration. He could have separated himself from the kooks (Trump, Cruz) and baby faced war monger (Rubio). The rest would have fallen by the waysides themselves.
Old     (wiscxstar)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-05-2016, 7:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltahoosier View Post
T

The Democrats just switched from overt racism to a subversive strategy of getting blacks as dependent as possible on government to secure their votes.
You are using a racist belief/statement to support that your political party of choice is not racist. Irony? Do you realize that a large amount of the people using "entitlement benefits" are white? The crux of your argument is plain and simple a racist belief that African American's are tricked being dependent on the government to vote democratic. I would love to have you raise that argument with some of the African American's that I know....fellow lawyers, business owners, and executives of large companies who vote democrat....yep just addicted and too stupid to vote otherwise.

When one of the lead GOP candidates refers to "the blacks" it is time to wake up. You are just repeating the same nonsense that Rush, Beck, and Fox news do. i don't want to get upset here, but you are basically saying that if African Americans weren't lazy and could think for themselves they would vote GOP. That's degrading and dehumanizing.

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