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Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       07-14-2015, 3:42 AM Reply   
As a restaurant owner, I've been watching this for some time

let's hope that this ridiculous regulation dies soon

[url]http://www.forbes.com/sites/thomaslandstreet/2015/07/13/say-goodbye-to-the-ethanol-mandate-time-to-gorge-on-restaurant-stocks/?utm_campaign=yahootix&partner=yahootix[/url
Old     (King12)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-14-2015, 5:51 AM Reply   
I think they could have done a much better job or shot at renewable fuels with biodiesel and electric. Very poor e85 tuning and utilization from manufacturers didn't help either. You can make stupid power on corn, practically babies you detonation wise.
Prime example is ford ecoboost. Turbos love corn. Dumbest thing in the world to not throw a sensor on that engine and let it run 50+hp stronger when fed corn, like every person that makes power with them does pretty much..

Anyway, here's to hoping beef holds a little longer. If it drops like a rock it'll be same story as always, 99% of expenses stay the same but final product drops like a rock
Old     (TX_Chris)      Join Date: Jun 2015       07-14-2015, 7:46 AM Reply   
My favorite part about the whole ethanol mandate is that it actually takes MORE oil to make a barrel of ethanol than just a barrel of oil...

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/...t-worth-energy

It is a high cost, low benefit subsidy on an industry that already has subsidies. I hope that cooler heads prevail, but I think big farm has their teeth in this one... it's not going anywhere soon enough.
Old     (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       07-14-2015, 7:47 PM Reply   
another example of campaign contributions fracking up our government and making by the people / for the people impossible.
Old     (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       07-15-2015, 5:30 AM Reply   
Indeed. Ethanol mandates are a subsidy for big business. Not picking on big business, all subsidies are bad as it's just theft. Ethanol mandate wastes natural resources for a net natural resource, economic, and environmental loss... But sure is lucrative for those growing corn and producing ethanol.

No local E85, I have thought it would be fun to build a high compression engine to run on it as I generally skate close to the edge on pump 93 octane.
Old     (King12)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-15-2015, 6:50 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadunkle View Post
Indeed. Ethanol mandates are a subsidy for big business. Not picking on big business, all subsidies are bad as it's just theft. Ethanol mandate wastes natural resources for a net natural resource, economic, and environmental loss... But sure is lucrative for those growing corn and producing ethanol.

No local E85, I have thought it would be fun to build a high compression engine to run on it as I generally skate close to the edge on pump 93 octane.

Do you live in a relatively rural area? You can make your own alcy pretty easily, and even be legal about it for fuel use with like one permit (mostly saying you know what you're doing and aren't blowing up the neighborhood if you have neighbors). This is where I think current ethanol production has its biggest advantage, home/locally made cheap "race" fuel. Granted it's not the best for massive massive nitrous shots, but pretty sure you can go 250 fine, and it loves compression and boost.

I do support ethanol production research, other means to get the fuel can be advantageous, especially if you can greatly increase density and reduce surface area needed for fuel supply.
Old     (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       07-15-2015, 7:09 AM Reply   
I read an article once that indicated prairie grass may eventually be used to make fuel. Seems to me that using something that grows for free and is otherwise useless would be a much better source than corn which requires land, attention, and fuel to grow along with already being a food source for people and livestock.
Old     (snyder)      Join Date: Feb 2006       07-15-2015, 7:55 AM Reply   
I once read that unicorn farts provide unlimited power for internal combustion engines.
You can forget about alternative fuels anytime soon. Iran has been given the green light to sell more oil. they're already planning on doubling their output.
there's still waaay too much bang for the buck in fossil fuels.
Old     (TX_Chris)      Join Date: Jun 2015       07-15-2015, 9:34 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by snyder View Post
I once read that unicorn farts provide unlimited power for internal combustion engines.
You can forget about alternative fuels anytime soon. Iran has been given the green light to sell more oil. they're already planning on doubling their output.
there's still waaay too much bang for the buck in fossil fuels.
mmmmmm.... unicorn farts.... soooooo tasty....

All joking aside, you're right. The oil spike from ~10 years ago wouldn't happen today - not with the additional Iraq oil (when ISIS isn't messing with the refineries), the fracking in US and now the increase Iranian oil supply. There are too many players in today's market who would step up supply when they saw prices increase. Dollar signs twinkling in their eyes all the way to the bank... But it is all good for consumers - especially those of us with boats that drink gallons of gas faster than my alcoholic friends can drink a beer (well almost).
Old     (diamonddad)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-17-2015, 4:30 PM Reply   
Most eco programs are simply wealth reduction programs.
Old     (torch318)      Join Date: May 2014       07-18-2015, 7:44 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TX_Chris View Post
My favorite part about the whole ethanol mandate is that it actually takes MORE oil to make a barrel of ethanol than just a barrel of oil...

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/...t-worth-energy

It is a high cost, low benefit subsidy on an industry that already has subsidies. I hope that cooler heads prevail, but I think big farm has their teeth in this one... it's not going anywhere soon enough.
The article doesn't mention anything about ethanols byproducts, the production of ethanol only uses the starch in the corn and a product called distillers grain is left over. For every three bushels of corn used two bushels of distillers grain are left over which is either sold as a wet product or it is dried down for long term storage or export. The biggest issues with biofuels is the fresh water requirements needed for production and the lack of a pipeline system to transport it since it can't be pumped through the existing pipeline so it has to be transported by rail or truck.
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       07-23-2015, 8:11 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by King12 View Post
I think they could have done a much better job or shot at renewable fuels with biodiesel and electric. Very poor e85 tuning and utilization from manufacturers didn't help either. You can make stupid power on corn, practically babies you detonation wise.
Prime example is ford ecoboost. Turbos love corn. Dumbest thing in the world to not throw a sensor on that engine and let it run 50+hp stronger when fed corn, like every person that makes power with them does pretty much..

Anyway, here's to hoping beef holds a little longer. If it drops like a rock it'll be same story as always, 99% of expenses stay the same but final product drops like a rock
Ford is actually an example of a company that has the sensor and their engines make more power on E85. Maybe I am misunderstanding your comment and you were saying that they are the ones making more power.
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/09...5-ethanol.html
Old     (King12)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-23-2015, 8:51 AM Reply   
Ford does make some more power but it still isn't at the rate possible with real tuning. The same goes for e85 fuel economy. It will never be the same, but could be improved greatly with a real tune. Ford is still stupid for tuning the ecoboost 3.5 for corn. I can't see any real reason they didn't do that. At all. This is he motor I was talking about in the initial comment.
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       07-23-2015, 10:04 AM Reply   
Oh, ok! You have to remember that they have to warranty these engines and while they may be able to make 50 more horsepower, that doesn't mean that they will hold up to the abuse that they will at the base power level. Look how many people tune their diesels and then jack up the transmission, the heads, the turbo, etc. I'm with ya, would love to see a 50hp E85 tune from the factory on the Ecoboost but the bean counters probably said no way.
Old     (King12)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-23-2015, 9:07 PM Reply   
True, and most that actually want to make that easy power can look to an online forum then go to a good tuner and get it.main unfortunate here is you don't get to keep warranty. But, still seems like a drop of the ball if you actually wanted to promote ethanol usage. Though I don't think that manufacturers actually want to do that. It just makes ethanol seem like more of a novelty and worsens the mpg thought of normal consumers when the crap stock e85 tunes get terrible fuel mileage.
But, I think ethanols only real use is these applications. Building lots of power without having to buy race fuel. Once you get into massive nitrous shots and crazy hp levels c23 and such fuels win again.. But 750-1500hp on pump gas with ethanol is pretty damn sweet.
Old     (flafin)      Join Date: May 2011       10-20-2015, 2:52 PM Reply   
Isobutanol is a cousin of ethanol that that does not attract water like ethanol and contains only 10% less energy then gasoline, compared to 40% less for ethanol. A company from California already making it and has gotten EPA approval to sell it as an RFG. (reformulated gassoline) The NMMA has also given this fuel a warranty statement for boats.
https://business.facebook.com/underw...07865302589977

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