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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-28-2015, 8:18 AM Reply   
I would like to know how it's Porsche his fault for his son's death . Apparently the car was highly modified and not in a stock or factory condition as most race cars are. And from what I understand the fire was so intense there was hardly anything left

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/paul-wal...he-over-crash/
Old     (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       11-28-2015, 8:24 AM Reply   
Unfortunately this is today's society. Their thinking is people are not responsible for their own actions. It has to be someone else's fault. Dale Earnhardt and Theresa Earnhardt were old school . They didn't sue Chevrolet,but they did almost ruin Simpson Motor sports reputation. I doubt much will come of this,but you never know. Now Porsche will cost more to the consumer so they can defend their name in court.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-29-2015, 8:12 AM Reply   
It a sad state of affairs when we all reconize frivolous law suits but still give them merit or their day in court. Another thing that needs to go away is this Settle out of court ($$$green mail $$$) where company and people realize it's cheaper to give these "ambulance chasers" a bone and make them go away. These people and company had no idea they were giving birth to a whole industry of scammers!
Old     (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       11-29-2015, 2:11 PM Reply   
Meanwhile legitimate victims are screwed out of being made whole and the State profits from both aggressor and victim with no regard for being a mediator of disputes as intended. Business as usual in America.
Old     (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       11-29-2015, 4:47 PM Reply   
Except "the State" doesn't profit from this in any way. It actually costs the state quite a bit of money as the state has to pay for these court proceedings. We the people of said state are the state. I don't think that, as a member of a state, I have ever profited from frivolous lawsuits. Keep in mind that the court system can still choose to throw the case out before it costs the state too much money.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-29-2015, 6:30 PM Reply   
A friend of mine is a patent attorney. He was chosen to be a juror on a trial. As an attorney he was interested to see how jurors see court proceedings so he didn't weasel out of jury duty like most people do ( myself included ) He said the trial was about a drug dealer who had been caught selling crack. He saw it as an open and close case by the prosecution. He said the prosecution had all their T's crossed and i's dotted. And by his calculations there was $150-$200k spent on this 3 Day trial by the state ,That should have never gone to court. Because the guy selling the crack had no legitimate excuse or defense. But yet he still got his day in court. "God bless America"
Old     (stanfield)      Join Date: Mar 2004       11-30-2015, 5:31 AM Reply   
So you would like to convict people of crimes and send them to prison without so much as a trial? You get more and more crazy each day.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-30-2015, 6:01 AM Reply   
F'k the Constitution and that "due process" BS.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       11-30-2015, 8:05 AM Reply   
So maybe crack-head deserved his day in court, but as a tax payer, this is the kind of crap that is bleeding our country. Not only did we spend the money for the trial. But now we'll spend much more on his incarceration.

And Walkers dad.....another greedy money thirty American. I'm surprised but at the same time, not.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-30-2015, 8:50 AM Reply   
I object to bull$hit money wasting cases and Court time wasted by roaches! My friend said that the guy who was selling crack his only defense was there was a typo on the arrest report. The arrest report claims he was arrested on the (right side) of the street when in fact he was arrested on the (left side) of the street. Yup that was his whole defense. They wasted 3 days and lots of money and 12 jurors time and gave this guy a trial because he thought he should get off on a technicality?
And you think this is perfectly fine maybe you're the one that's crazy
Old     (stanfield)      Join Date: Mar 2004       11-30-2015, 9:22 AM Reply   
I'm actually not some fan of crack dealers per se, but I am a fan of the constitution. People deserve their day in court. Believe it or not, the police do get it wrong here and there, "roach" or not.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       11-30-2015, 9:29 AM Reply   
requiring the state to prove its case is the foundation of the rule of law.

likewise, resort to the courts to resolve civil disputes is much better than going hatfields and mccoys.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-30-2015, 9:35 AM Reply   
Maybe the prosecution should have offered him a better deal if cost is the big concern. The drawback to going to court is losing is supposed to result in a worse sentence than taking a deal. If so then he is paying for it. Not everybody hates crack dealers. Like crack buyers for example. Why so much hate'n on the free market?
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-30-2015, 10:08 AM Reply   
The Guy was a 3rd stike canadit. So he had nothing to loose by rolling the dice and wasting everyone's time. I like how liberal everyone is right up to the point they are victimized. The mentality everyone deserves a 3 or 4th chance @ your and my expense. Example they decide the prisons were over crowed so they decided to let all the "non violent" criminals out. Guess what street crime is way up since they let them all out. Car break ins and theft is so rampant the cops don't even respond to them in SF anymore the cops look at it as a victim less crime. They say call ur insurance and get all your stolen items replaced and let Us "the cops" stick to catching the real bad guys.
If you don't reconize human garbage and where and what we should do with it the you are part of the problem people.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-30-2015, 10:14 AM Reply   
My point is in this whole thing and a attempt to bring it back to the orignal topic is. "You can't blame people for taking advantage" if you leave sugar out you can expect ants to show up. Don't blame the Ants! They are just trying to get by. We have to close up loop holes that allow ROACHES to survive and thrive! Roaches take on all forms, Like a ambulance chasing Lawyer in a Suit or Homeless guy breaking into your car, same thing! ROACH!
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       11-30-2015, 10:35 AM Reply   
Since this wasn't the first death in a Carrera GT nor the first lawsuit, is this frivolous? Was the gas tank positioned in such a way that caused the car to burst into flames? Is Porsche covering something up with this car? I'm against frivolous lawsuits too and served on a jury back in September where we squashed one. Maybe there is something more here. Yes, speed and careless driving were what caused the actual crash but why did the car burst into flames? Could that have been prevented? (just playing devil's advocate here)
http://www.tmz.com/2013/12/04/paul-w...ent-racetrack/
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       11-30-2015, 10:45 AM Reply   
It was pretty interesting talking to the judge of the trial that I served on as a juror afterwards. He said that the courts didn't dismiss this trial that I was on, a auto accident and injury claim, as frivolous because the plaintiff had seen Dr's, had medical bills and there was a police report. Unfortunately for the plaintiff in my trial, she was totally lying about all of it and the defense had her medical records where her normal Dr said that there was nothing wrong with her and that she may have some mental instability and the defense had her on video doing things that she claimed she was not able to do like tying her shoe, carrying groceries, lifting things like her grandkids, going to the grocery store, etc. Kind of hard to claim those things when someone has you on video doing all of them...this might be different, what exactly is Walker's father claiming that the Porsche lacked that caused the death?

sorry for the hijack!
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       11-30-2015, 11:08 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
I like how liberal everyone is right up to the point they are victimized.
I have to concede your point in that I've never been victimized by a crack dealer.
Old     (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       11-30-2015, 3:49 PM Reply   
The amount of people like Grant and his buddy Trump who are promoting fascism and who think we should blow our nose with the U.S. Constitution is really getting ridiculous. Most of the problems related to the costs of our society and our overburdened court system can be directly related to an increased population. Then the same people doing the complaining are out having a pile of kids Duggar style. How many kids did you pollute our planet with Grant??
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-30-2015, 4:49 PM Reply   
Hey Eric you don't need to get personal with this why don't you just try improving your argument instead of making personal insults? I have Zero kids by the way.

Eric I guess it's easy to be A socialist when you live in a place like "Denver" and you're not being overrun with what you called "increased population" here in California most of our "increased population" as you like to call it Is in fact "illegal immigration" It's nice to be in Denver and smoke pot in the mile high city but I choose to live and work and in sometimes have to step over homeless people that crap and piss all over the street and choose not to be part of society but live in the crux of it at our expense. The human garbage that migrate here and thrive off the backs of working people yes it upsets me. I have little to no tolerance for them. I see you like to waive the constitution around. How do you think our founding fathers and in colonial times would have dealt with people like this???
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       12-01-2015, 7:24 AM Reply   
The amount of people like Eric and his buddy Sanders who are promoting Socialism and who think we should blow our nose with the U.S. Constitution is really getting ridiculous. Most of the problems related to the costs of our society and our overburdened court system can be directly related to an increased population through illegal immigration and welfare support for lack of work ethic. Then the same people doing the complaining are out having a pile of kids welfare style and voting in politicians that support more welfare/amnesty.

Fixed it for ya.
Old     (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       12-01-2015, 7:50 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
A friend of mine is a patent attorney. He was chosen to be a juror on a trial. ... He said the trial was about a drug dealer who had been caught selling crack. He saw it as an open and close case by the prosecution. ... Because the guy selling the crack had no legitimate excuse or defense. But yet he still got his day in court. "God bless America"
Clearly your friend is not familiar with natural rights...

There was no victim in this case to file suit, the State cannot be a victim.
The guy being tried was involved in voluntary and mutually consensual transactions, again no victim.
The federal government has no authority to prohibit crack (or any other drug). Such prohibition requires a constitutional amendment. The government understood the limitations on their power in 1919. This prohibition also created all the violent organized crime that persists today.
Jury nullification is a relevant tool in cases like this.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       12-01-2015, 8:09 AM Reply   
Lol. Clearly you have never been in front of a judge.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-01-2015, 9:38 AM Reply   
Cory ; I left out much of the Juicy Details to keep the post as short as possible, But the Crack dealer sold crack to a undercover Agent & they recovered the Marked bills the undercover agent gave to the crack dealer, the crack dealer had 20 or so individual packaged rocks on his person. His home had more product as well as scales and bags to distribute along with Guns, ect (you know the typical Roach Work Shop).

#cracklivesmatter

Imagin living in or around people like this selling drugs intimidating anyone who would potentially testify against them. Knowing that the Law many time only protects the Criminals. It's now wonder why roaches " Live and Breed"
Old     (seth)      Join Date: Sep 2002       12-01-2015, 9:50 AM Reply   
The war on drugs is a joke, legalize and collect the taxes. The worst drug of them all is legal.
Old     (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       12-01-2015, 10:06 AM Reply   
Owning and selling guns, drugs, or anything else does not victimize anyone. If there is no victim then no crime has been committed.

Grant, I understand what you're saying but the truth of the matter is drug dealers only operate using violence and coercion because of government prohibition. There is a market for the product. Government drives the price through the roof with prohibition. Those who buy, sell and use the particular drugs not endorsed by government and big pharma have zero recourse within the legal system for any wrongs done to them and must resort to dealing with it entirely by themselves. If the federal government wants to ban a substance, which in and of itself is an immoral and unethical initiation of force against those who have harmed no one, the constitution must be amended.

Anyhow, surely if the person in this case was such a menace there should have been many legitimate things to try him for... anything in which there was a victim. Beyond that, all the money government stole from him could have been given to the actual victims (assuming there were any) to make them whole. That never happens though, government steals the money for itself to expand the police state and steal more, both from people convicted of victimless crimes and from random people who aren't even engaged in any illegal activity (civil asset forfeiture, i.e. theft).
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-01-2015, 11:59 AM Reply   
Sorry But I can't agree with your Victum less crime "idea" using that idolgy I should be able to go out side and Empty a full clip into the air and not be charged with a crime (if the bullets don't hit any one) because it's (victim less) same with speeding and many more Victum less crimes! Sorry brother "go fish"
Old     (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       12-01-2015, 12:45 PM Reply   
So long as you have the consent of all persons and property owners within range, otherwise there is a victim as your actions were either reckless or malicious. Mutual consent is key. Sorry bro, your wild unrealistic scenarios don't work when you consistently apply the non-aggression principle.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       12-01-2015, 1:23 PM Reply   
They work all the time. People go to jail everyday for Victim less crimes.
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       12-03-2015, 8:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Hey Eric you don't need to get personal with this why don't you just try improving your argument instead of making personal insults? I have Zero kids by the way.

Eric I guess it's easy to be A socialist when you live in a place like "Denver" and you're not being overrun with what you called "increased population" here in California most of our "increased population" as you like to call it Is in fact "illegal immigration" It's nice to be in Denver and smoke pot in the mile high city but I choose to live and work and in sometimes have to step over homeless people that crap and piss all over the street and choose not to be part of society but live in the crux of it at our expense. The human garbage that migrate here and thrive off the backs of working people yes it upsets me. I have little to no tolerance for them. I see you like to waive the constitution around. How do you think our founding fathers and in colonial times would have dealt with people like this???
When was the last time you were in Denver? Our state is #4 for population growth and homeless line our streets downtown. The difference between our illegals and yours is that ours are all working in the fields. I know this because my wife was an elementary school teacher for the last 12 years in a school that was 75% spanish speaking. Check your facts, G!
Old     (seth)      Join Date: Sep 2002       12-03-2015, 10:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyb View Post
When was the last time you were in Denver? Our state is #4 for population growth and homeless line our streets downtown. The difference between our illegals and yours is that ours are all working in the fields. I know this because my wife was an elementary school teacher for the last 12 years in a school that was 75% spanish speaking. Check your facts, G!
Most illegal immigrants here are also working in the fields, doing the jobs that the homeless people lining the streets won't and probably wouldn't last a day doing if they tried.

Nothing new here but a good read:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...mmigrants.html

A little excerpt if it hurts to much read this article:

"Hereís what they donít seem very troubled about: the fact that illegal immigration has become a cash cow for California. A recent report by researchers at the University of Southern California, for example, says immigrants who are in California illegally make up nearly 10 percent of the stateís workers and contribute $130 billion annually to its gross domestic product.

Growing up in the rich farmland of Central California, Iíve known for sometime that the agriculture industry had become completely dependent on immigrant laborósome of it from legal immigrants, but much of it from the undocumented. And what an industry it is, producing more than $45 billion a year in revenue and supplying more than half the produce consumed in the United States.

The study found that the estimated 2.6 million immigrants who are living in California illegally account for as much as 38 percent of the agriculture industry. Farming insiders put the figure at over 50 percent. Illegal immigrants also constitute at least 14 percent of the construction industry. Youíll also find them well represented in the hospitality industry, landscaping industry, and just about every other line of work in the state that requires breaking a sweat."
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       12-03-2015, 11:11 AM Reply   
Nice! Yeah, people don't like illegal immigration but they love money a LOT more than they hate illegal immigration.

How about this lawsuit?

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