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Old     (mkperceptions)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-26-2008, 5:32 PM Reply   
So no doubt this is going to be a long post. One of the last all american products around are boats. Made in the US. Camping, boating, hunting, and fishing are a AMERICAN past time. So when I buy camping gear or boating gear I try to buy american. But the problem is even companies like Coleman are making everything in china. THis is BS. So in order to turn our world economy around we need to buy more American made goods, and need to demand more goods are made in America. So with that said. Lets list off all the name brands we can think of that are related to our sport and where they are made.
Old     (mkperceptions)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-26-2008, 5:33 PM Reply   
I'll get this started

CWB - China :-( should have known Chinese Wake Board Company
Old     (longhornfan)      Join Date: Oct 2005       05-26-2008, 6:15 PM Reply   
Sling Shot boards-USA
Sling Shot boots -China
Old     (99_slaunch)      Join Date: Oct 2005       05-26-2008, 6:22 PM Reply   
Hyper Lite Roam = made in China.
Old     (newty)      Join Date: May 2005       05-26-2008, 7:00 PM Reply   
Anheuser-Busch Good Ol' USA!
And yes its related to my sport!
Old     (882001)      Join Date: Nov 2003       05-26-2008, 7:03 PM Reply   
viva nafta! thanks alot clinton
Old     (x45er)      Join Date: Nov 2007       05-26-2008, 7:51 PM Reply   
Tsing Tao beer........biggest brewery in China.

Owned by AB
Old     (chas)      Join Date: Feb 2002       05-26-2008, 8:15 PM Reply   
HSE--- made in America
Old     (big_wave)      Join Date: Jul 2007       05-26-2008, 8:31 PM Reply   
Inland Surfer made in Tiwan
Old     (foilboy)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-26-2008, 8:37 PM Reply   
Wetsounds = Made in china= huge $ mark up
Old     (mkperceptions)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-26-2008, 9:03 PM Reply   
I am so sick of all these american companies selling cheap chinese goods. Im working on making marine accesories and all my stuff is engineered, made, and sold in the US. I don't care if I can make a extra 10 bucks by outsourcing it. I want it to be made in america. I want to employ americans, and make our dollar stronger. We should all demand the same.
Old     (ponte_06_x2)      Join Date: Jan 2006       05-26-2008, 9:06 PM Reply   
NVS made in america

(Message edited by ponte_06_x2 on May 26, 2008)
Old     (h20jnky)      Join Date: Mar 2003       05-26-2008, 9:11 PM Reply   
fat free "Red Vines" nice boat snack..
product of USA by the AMERICAN LICORICE CO. in union city, Ca.

me and my wife are now american citizens but we were made in New Zealand..
Old     (mkperceptions)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-26-2008, 9:12 PM Reply   
nice i live right by the american licorice co. :-)
Old     (newty)      Join Date: May 2005       05-26-2008, 11:51 PM Reply   
Red vines are a no no in my boat with kids! But one of my faves for snacking. Especially soft ones! MMMMMM.
Old     (justcoz5)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-26-2008, 11:59 PM Reply   
rick, I hear what you are saying, but with the comments you are making, you need to be prepared to pay more. The biggest expense for almost any company is labor, and Americans are not cheap when it comes to labor. If you are willing to pay almost double what you do now for the stuff that you buy then fine, but if not, this thread is contradictory.

I am not knocking you at all rick, I really appreciate the point you are making here. I would be willing to pay double, you may also, but unfortunately the rest of the country probably isn't. You make a great point though.
Old     (rb23lsv)      Join Date: Nov 2007       05-27-2008, 12:03 AM Reply   
Hate to break it to you who don't know, but I heard on CNN today Anheuser-Busch is about to be bought out by a big European company called InBev since the Euro is worth so much more than US dollar. I think the same company already bought one of Canada's big breweries too. When foreign lands start taking our beer they have gone to far!!!
Old     (mkperceptions)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-27-2008, 12:08 AM Reply   
Weak. All these companies sell out. My point is if I own a company and make a widget lets say and it sells for 100.00. my profit using american labor is 50.00 but with chinese labor is 75$ I will keep it american and only make 50.00 . If we can't make a turn around then what will the world need us for? Don't worry your wakeboard racks that I am engineering and manufacturing won't cost any more than the ones that you are buying today.
Old     (newty)      Join Date: May 2005       05-27-2008, 12:17 AM Reply   
Guess I'll start home brewing more!
Old     (scanboarder)      Join Date: Feb 2005       05-27-2008, 5:44 AM Reply   
The mighty dollar.. Nobody gives a crap anymore as long as they can make that extra buck.

For a country that's so huge on patriotism it's ridiculous how much "third world" junk is sold. And for a country with such a nasty history on slavery and exploitation it's just sad to see everyone embracing stuff produced thru child labour and horrifying exploitation of poor people.

Not saying this regards to China in all cases but it sure happens a lot in third world countries.

Nice to see things turning tho. The consciousness on these problems is really growing all over the world.

Also the u.s has it's own major issues with poverty and such so i fully support buying american products. Change starts close to home.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       05-27-2008, 7:23 AM Reply   
Newty, got 2 batches fermenting right now.

yea, the inbev/BUD deal doesn't look like its going to work. But the opportunity is there, with our weak dollar, for foreign companies and takeover bids. More mergers...

Our labor force is apathetic and expensive. We can't keep propping up our economy with good ol' flag-waving patriotism. We need to compete in the global marketplace, not hand out freebies to those who bitch enough. We should spend tax money on becoming more competetive, not subsidizing our companies and our weak labor force with patriotic demand.
Old     (hal2814)      Join Date: Feb 2006       05-27-2008, 7:57 AM Reply   
Ryan, what US-made homebrew ingredients are you getting? I guess you could use Alexanders for extract but that's about it. The other prominent extracts are Muntons (British), Coopers (Austrailian), and that Irish stuff in the white cans (can't remember the brand name but it's decent stuff). Even if you're an all-grain brewer around these parts good luck finding American 2-row. Our stuff is British. Our 6-row is American and our specialty grain is about half American and half European. I don't know exactly where each variety of hops we get are grown but I do know that at least some of the stuff I use comes from England and Germany though from what I understand most of it comes from the West Coast. I guess just about all liquid yeast is born and raised in the good ol' USofA but the rest of my batches are at least partially European. Right now it's costing me about $35 to make a 5 gallon batch of homebrew and at least half of that is going across the pond.

I personally could care less where an item is made as long as it suits my needs and does so for a reasonable price. American labor is expensive and right now the quality American labor is putting out isn't justifying the cost in a lot of cases. To me it seems like dramatically decreasing the average American's buying power by buying near-identical quality goods from the US instead of overseas isn't going to do the US many favors economically.
Old     (kirk)      Join Date: May 2003       05-27-2008, 8:26 AM Reply   
I read an article about a family that tried to only purchase American made goods for an entire year. Almost impossible.
Even goods labeled as made in America sometimes have a high content of parts made oversees. As the dollar continues to shrink against other counties, we will see even more goods manufactored oversees.
Old     (mkperceptions)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-27-2008, 8:48 AM Reply   
Either way when I have a choice im buying american and I don't make a ton of money I am a college student who pays for his tuition with all my own money IE no loans. And I am a mechanic part time so I only pull 32k a year. Do I have money to pay double? No. But I am sick of communists giving us there crap and taking our money. What happened to "the only good communist is a dead communist"
Old     (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-27-2008, 9:06 AM Reply   
The Walker Project-Hand shaped and made in America.
Old     (foilboy)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-27-2008, 11:07 AM Reply   
The thing that pees me off about Wetsounds is they make them in China for cheap but the don't bother to give us a break on the price. They just suck up all that excess profit. When you buy china crap at Wal-Mart at least they sell it cheap.

(Message edited by foilboy on May 27, 2008)
Old     (innov8)      Join Date: May 2005       05-27-2008, 11:32 AM Reply   
Rik you should have bought a pro model CWB, they are made in the U.S.A., ya they cost more then the pure/kink combo boards, but they are made in the U.S. instead of China.
Old     (kvoman)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-27-2008, 11:45 AM Reply   
"One of the last all american products around are boats."

Common, you don't really buy that do you??? Look at the content of your boat. Is it 100% made here? What's truly made in the USA? Did you check the bilge pump, the light assemblies, the light bulbs, the gauges, the steering wheel, the seats, the material on the boat, the wires on your engines, the spark plugs, the oil filter, the oil, etc.?

Look at your trailer - are the tires made here? The bearings, the light covers, the bulbs, the brake pads & disc, the bow straps, etc.?

And yes, I'm proud to be an American.

(Message edited by kvoman on May 27, 2008)
Old     (tigerules)      Join Date: Mar 2008       05-27-2008, 2:50 PM Reply   
For camping stuff forget Coleman!!

The best camping stoves and other stuff are made right here in the good old USA!!

Partner Steel Camping Gear

Partner Steel has been in business since 1947 as a custom steel fabricator. We sheer steel up to 1 inch thick and as long as 12 feet. Our CNC plasma table can cut any pattern that can be drawn, cutting up to 7/8 inch thick steel and as large as 5 feet by 10 feet in size.

We have built large tanks, steel bridges, custom piping and structural steel parts. Some our special equipment includes a vertical lathe that is used to make drive shoes for well casings, and other parts that can not be done on a horizontal lathe.

On the other end of the scale, our craftsmanship is shown in the precision and durability of camping equipment seen here. Feedback from Outfitters, Guides and others have been the driving force to create truly useful equipment that is needed when out in the wilds. You can count on us to listen to your comments and suggestions, as we continue to make improvements so your adventure is more enjoyable.

This stuff is great, I have personally dragged all this gear along the river bottom of the Colorado through various rapids including Crystal, The Big Drops, Skull, etc... and it always held up!!
Old     (lsukuntryboy)      Join Date: Jul 2007       05-27-2008, 8:03 PM Reply   
one of the obrien boards is made in United Arab Emirates, and some of their ropes are made in tiawan, the life jackets were made in China. all of this from one company. kinda sad
Old     (mkperceptions)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-27-2008, 8:57 PM Reply   
That camping gear looks awesome. Definately rugged stuff. very true, not sure where faria guages are made and where my wiring is made etc. Lights not sure either hopefully signal stat and hopefully they are made in USA still. Man this country is only going to be known for service and even then we outsource that. The world won't need us for much soon. :-(
Old     (ponte_06_x2)      Join Date: Jan 2006       05-27-2008, 9:02 PM Reply   
thank god for people like you rick. what pisses me off is i have the ability to grow my business if i hire illegal's to work for me. i choose not to because i dont want to be a sell out like all these other contractors with the american flag stickers on their work trucks with illegal's driving them. i know why they hire them. i just choose not to. so i guess ill just stay small.
Old     (ponte_06_x2)      Join Date: Jan 2006       05-27-2008, 9:06 PM Reply   
we had less problems with our companies here. american made stuff. now that they go overseas, then problems occur. doesn't make any sense. im tired of people from india calling me with their fake accents and names telling me they live in florida. PRESS ONE FOR ENGLISH
Old     (mkperceptions)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-27-2008, 9:13 PM Reply   
I agree. Illegal work force and outsourcing is our problem. If we don't start the next industrial revolution we are screwed.
Old     (kvoman)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-28-2008, 11:18 AM Reply   
It's just supply and demand. Most people want the biggest bang for their bucks (look at Wal-Mart, Costco, etc.). Of course, there are those that stick to their principles, otherwise, there wouldn't be the specialty shops, etc.

Illegal work force or outsourcing is not the problem. That's just the effect, you have to look at the cause!!!

If you have to pay someone $30/hr to put something together versus paying someone else $0.50 to do the same job, what would you do? As stockholders and investors, what are your expectations in a company? No profit but high on principles or a nice tidy profit??? These companies have to answer to the stockholders who demand and expect a nice profit and return of their investments.

Google and Yahoo can't even do that with their billions. Look at how they have to do business in China.
Old     (justcoz5)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-28-2008, 11:42 AM Reply   

You are exactly right. The people who run the company may very well want to keep everything domestic, but they have to do what is best for the shareholders. Shareholders want money, and most of them could care less how they get it.

Most companies that stay local don't have shareholders that they have to answer to. They are either owned by one person, or a couple of partners, where they don't have to worry about what investors want because they are the investors.

What really stinks is when you have smaller companies who try to stay American, and then the big companies gang up to put them out of business so they can pad their pockets even more.
Old     (96formula)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-28-2008, 12:28 PM Reply   
CWB manufactures wakeboards in the USA. Liquid Force is made in the United Arab Emirates
Old     (stewart)      Join Date: Feb 2006       05-28-2008, 2:40 PM Reply   
Bullet Hollow Points speaker guts, made in China.

Bullet's aluminum Bullet spinning, polishing, welding, assembly, etc. MADE IN USA!!!


(Message edited by stewart on May 28, 2008)
Old     (ponte_06_x2)      Join Date: Jan 2006       05-28-2008, 5:36 PM Reply   
the difference between business here and business overseas is that stock holders need free money to get paid. they cant get a good amount of free money here so it goes overseas. free money is the root of all evil. earn your keep and you'll be humble and prosper.
Old     (monkey)      Join Date: Oct 2002       05-28-2008, 6:08 PM Reply   
Now that the dollar is down relative to other currencies, naturally more manufacturing is shifting back to the US. What's interesting is that when the dollar is up, the complaint is about too many imports sucking up American jobs and about trade deficits... When the dollar is down, the complaint is about the weak dollar and our buying power, no mention of the fact that more goods start being manufactured back at home... In a fair environment, supply and demand dictate the import to export ratio, buying power, etc, and free trade benifits everyone, but you can't have it both ways. At any given time, either you're the richer country buying up goods on the cheap, or you're the poorer country producing the goods and getting richer... Artificially created protectionist environments don't benefit anyone. They just restrict economic activity.
Old     (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       05-28-2008, 6:26 PM Reply   

You better stock up on Bush beer now
Old     (justcoz5)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-28-2008, 10:43 PM Reply   
That couldn't have been said any better Tim
Old     (mkperceptions)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-28-2008, 10:57 PM Reply   
Wow this seems to have really spurred up alot of great conversation. I think stock holders need to get knocked on there but. "If that's moving up then I'm................ movin out" LOL man sometimes I think ignorance is bliss. The more I know and learn about the way economics works the more it scares me that we are on a very very bad path.
Old     (justcoz5)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-28-2008, 11:44 PM Reply   
Well Rick, I think that this thread shows that this is not one of those issues that is simply black and white.

I bet many people on here are shareholders of some form, even if they are minimal shareholders.

I own stock, and I certainly want to see a return on my investment. Whether you have a 401k, or mutual funds, or even a pension you can end up being a stockholder, and I am almost certain that everyone wants to see those accounts increase in value.

This has been a very good thread. It deals with a bunch of issues, all good ones to talk about.
Old     (adam_balon)      Join Date: Jul 2003       05-29-2008, 1:02 AM Reply   
Old     (monkey)      Join Date: Oct 2002       05-29-2008, 12:01 PM Reply   
Don't be scared that we're on a bad path because of how economics works, and don't ever mistake money as being evil. Money is simply an unbiased measure of a person's contributions to society. It's not a perfect measure, and there are lots of other ways to measure contributions and value, but think about it. How of them quantify a person's contributions in a way that doesn't require a subjective human judgement call. None by my measure. In it's purest form, economics can be described as a bunch of people exchanging their work and their efforts with eachother, and money is simply the means by which we keep score. When something you produce becomes more valuable to people, it goes up in price. When it becomes less valuable, it goes down in price. If you put more thought into your work than someone else, you can be the one who's efforts carry a higher price tag. Combine being smart with assuming more risk, and the price tag on your efforts can go way up. It's really is that simple.
Old     (ponte_06_x2)      Join Date: Jan 2006       05-29-2008, 12:50 PM Reply   
tim. its really not that easy as you say. i constantly have to adjust my labor cost due to illegals under bidding me. the reason i have a higher labor is because i pay insurance, bonds and workmen's comp. ohh yea. TAXES. they sure dont pay. so is my issue supply and demand or just getting flat out screwed. dont get me wrong. i get by but its a lot harder then a lot of people even realize. i know the construction field is now like this but its a big problem that no one wants to talk about. so what do you think i should do? put more thought in my craft. its not simple at all.
Old     (monkey)      Join Date: Oct 2002       05-29-2008, 1:03 PM Reply   
I here ya man, and I feel your pain! But what you're describing isn't really a broken economic system or the result of free trade, it's more of a broken political system. Illegal immigrants have an unfair advantage because our politicians made it that way. And guess what? You don't have to show proof of citizenship, or even and ID to vote these days... gee, I wonder what motivates these political hacks... Oh, that's right. If they try to fix things, they run the risk of being voted out of office by people who shouldn't legally be allowed to vote anyway...
Old     (monkey)      Join Date: Oct 2002       05-29-2008, 1:05 PM Reply   
> so what do you think i should do?

Buy beachfront in a developing Mexican Resort area, and use your construction knowledge and knowledge of the US to make $$$ in their country}
Old     (ponte_06_x2)      Join Date: Jan 2006       05-29-2008, 1:31 PM Reply   
i guess thats always a option, but they dont take too kindly to foreigners. unless its just a vacation.
Old     (cbraden)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-29-2008, 9:53 PM Reply   
I live in Norman, OK and we have a COLEMAN factory on the north side of town. I'm not sure what products they make there but it is a pretty big factory. I have always been a long time COLEMAN fan. Cant beat the ole thumb pump lantern and 2 burner stove.
Old     (mkperceptions)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-29-2008, 11:08 PM Reply   
the thumb pump lantern is awesome lol. I have a vintage one along with the 2 burner stove. Never use it but got it lol. As far as the illegal work force I wish there would be steeper fines like 20K for catching employers using illegals and i wish there was more enforcement. Ponte, I would rather have you work on my house than illegals any day.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-30-2008, 6:52 AM Reply   
Im all for "Made in the USA" But how many of you wouldn't complain if the things you bought cost 2 to 3 times more than what they cost now. Gas is up and look at how that is effecting things. I dont know whats the answer. I think its funny how in this country its Not ok to under pay people and polute and dump or dispose not in a green way but its totally OK to buy things from countrys where people are under payed and they polute like crazy and don't give a crap about anything but $. Its only natural human nature to not want to throw money out the window or pay more for somthing than you need to but be honest with yourself. How would you feel paying 3 times the amount for the same items you buy now????? In some ways China has us by the balls. For many people this price increase would crush them. The US is so used to getting Items for cheep its like a addiction.
Old     (tigerules)      Join Date: Mar 2008       05-30-2008, 8:36 AM Reply   


By Cody Clark (cbraden) on Thursday, May 29, 2008 - 9:53 pm:

I live in Norman, OK and we have a COLEMAN factory on the north side of town. I'm not sure what products they make there but it is a pretty big factory. I have always been a long time COLEMAN fan. Cant beat the ole thumb pump lantern and 2 burner stove.

That's cool!! But you can beat both those products....Partner Steel makes them look like little kids toys!!
Old     (ponte_06_x2)      Join Date: Jan 2006       05-30-2008, 4:06 PM Reply   
thank you rick. i really appreciate what you said. hey g. i do believe in what you said but i hate to say this. maybe we would be better off not being able to get what we want if it does come at a bigger cost to everyone in the long run. sad to say but true. maybe we really dont deserve so many things.


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