How many of your boats are paid for?????

Just curious.

why?

Just wanted to know.Figured a paid off boat was rare.

2003 SANTE clean and clear. I only mention it beacause I work my ass off to play hard.

2001 Malibu Sunsetter LXi - paid cash when I brought it home 4 years ago. ( Not that it means anything.)

I think a boat that's 15 years old is the only one that should be paid off!

Other than that you either got money up the ying yang or made a unwise decision not barrowing money for about 6%!!

only one of them.....

my vlx, x-2, super air, are all paid for...by someone else.

LMAO…. Too funny Joe! How true it is!

Big Ed, I agree there are much better places to put your money to work for you that to pay off a toy. With rates as low today as they are…. you can borrow for less than 6% and write it off if you use a variable rate home equity line. Even consumer loan rates are good if you have a decent credit score.

Follow-up question… For those with paid off boats…. Was it your first boat? Did you buy ‘new’ or ‘used’? Are you in the industry?

Seems a large percentage of those on WW get a new boat every few years… or even every year in some cases. I highly doubt all the boats in the classifieds that are less than 5 years old are paid off.

Too many people are upside down in their boat purchases. Then when they go to sell them they owe more than the boat is worth.

Now if Correct Craft came out with a 3 or 5 year no interest financing deal, I would snatch a new boat up in a heart beat. My last boat I put half down and carried a loan for a year.

What's a credit card? Credit is evil! Unless it is for property

JOE ~ CORRECTION,The boats you RIDE on are paid by someone else not YOURS!!

Ohh and if you do?? When do I get a pull?!

I have a 94 MC PS 205 paid 11,500 cash for two summers ago. I doubt I could get a loan for that small amount for an 8 year old at the time boat at anything less than 10%, so for me, cash was the only way to go.

Paid off the day I bought it.

2001 X-9 paid cash when I bought it in 2002. My rule is always pay cash for toys - unless I'm getting a rate under 2%. If I can't afford to pay cash - I can't afford it. My stable includes my X-9, Donzi Sweet 16, Sea Doo GTX and Kawa 750 stand up. There is no way I could justify all of those if I was making payments.

and making payments in the winter must suck.

Well, I have been waiting for a property to sell so I can pick up my 02 Pro V a guy in Cali is holding for me. The Damn Loan company wants to send there own appraiar out now cause they dont think the original appraisal was accurate. It's like, dont they want your business? Anyway, if this thing goes through, I will be paying cash. It's the only way my wife will let me have one.

Mine will be in about 14 years and 8 months.

1st boat paid $30K cash.

2nd boat (2005 SV211 Team Edition) will be paying $$$$$$ cash.

How? It's called home equity in Southern California. It's so crazy down here I know several folks who "make" more money on their real estate investment each year then they net from their regular jobs.

Why pay cash? I just don't understand.

Keith said

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quote:

There is no way I could justify all of those if I was making payments.

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why not when you have $80k in your bank account?

(Message edited by antbug on December 27, 2004)

Here is a question for the people who pay cash for new/semi-new boats(30K and up).

Do you pay cash for your vehicle(s), mortgage, etc.?

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quote:

and making payments in the winter must suck.

---

Not when your the only one on the lake with butter as far as the eye can see.

(Message edited by Pierce Bronkite on December 27, 2004)

1995 ps 190. 3rd boat i purchased used. paid for. i too dont like to finance toys. not saying that i wont but unless its a car, college, or mortgage i try to pay cash.

The only vehicle we are making payments on is the wifes' SUV.

My F-350 4x4 is paid for.
Our 99 Sanger DLX is paid for.
Our Arctic Fox Cabover Camper is paid for.
Our Quads and trailer are paid for.

I ain't rich. I make a decent living and so does my wife. We have worked our butts off for 25 years, and learned how to save $ for what we want.
I understand that alot of folks are sucking equity out of their homes to finance toys, and living on 6 acres in Nor Cal, I have seen the property values rise, too.
It is a dice roll if things slow down, it would be easy to get upside down in a home. It has happened before, markets getting softer, interest rates go up.
I want that equity there when the day comes to sell, when I can really enjoy it.
Just my opinion...

My new 05' SANTE paid for in cold hard cash,loaded out,even came with replacement batteries for the remote!

Im with u Army dad, This real estate thing has got to slow down. Homes here in Southern Oregon have doubled in value in the last 5 years. It's crazy. I think the bubble has got to pop pretty soon, I could be wrong but I guess we shall see.

POP...No it just might deflate very little!!

This is relly cool to know that so many of us have paid off boats.Good to see that people are smart.

Home equity loan-tax deductible interest! Also, If any of you bought a 2004, you can deduct your sales tax this year from new 2004 cars and boats!!!

From the above quotes, does anyone consider using home equity to buy a boat paying cash??? I don't because you have to make those home equity payments, no matter how wonderful the tax deductionswhich aren't that spectacular compared to having kids-too bad we can't claim our boats as dependents.

If I coud claim my boat and the $ I still wind up "helping" my "adult" kids with, I would be paying 0 taxes....

I think alot of people use the home equity route.

Pierce,
The butter conditions you speak of are not seen here. Just Ice.

Paul (psudy), yikes! Sorry to hear that!

schooledrider - Is that sales tax deduction a national thing or a local thing? What if I bought my boat in 2004, but it was a new 2003 model sitting on the lot?

I'm always afraid to use a HELOC. Borrowing against my house is just something I try not to do...

In the last year or so It's been a great time to refinance your home! You can barrow alot of money and your payment wouldn't go up much at all because you are gonna be gettin a better APR% so in reality you pay about $150.00 more a month for your house but on the other hand you go $60K+ in the bank account.You can use that to purchase your boat cash or take a MUCH smarter route and make your money work for you.If worst comes to worst at least you got $60K in the pocket and all this buying power.

PAY YOUR BOAT IN CASH ~1. You are not building your credit!! 2.You allready decided what you are doing with your money and that's ALL!( no buying power )
Like I said before money,you can barrow money CHEAP

Really? You can deduct the tax on a 2004 this year?

Well said big Ed!

Not sure how things are escalating in Norcal Army Dad, but in San Diego Equity is smart money. All my cars/toys/etc. are paid for in large part by home equity and I'll never get upside down. Rates are low and tax deductible....

Example: I've owned two homes since 1998. Purchased the first at $160K sold 3 years later for $350. Purchased second house at $550K now valued at @ $1M. And the funny part is I thought the market was at the ceiling 2 years ago.

Lower interest rates could be used to reduce monthly house payments or shorten loan terms. (Admittedly, not very exciting.) For many, it provides the rationale to go deeper into debt.

Leverage can be a great thing when used to acquire income producing assets. Some choose to finance a lifestyle.

I don't agree with Big Ed and TSO. I refinanced and lowered my house payment substantially. If I lose my job - one of us (I live with my girlfriend - soon to be fiance) can still make the payments. I have plenty of buying power cause I have very low living expenses. Even if I borrow money cheaply (fixed homec is around 7.0% - go variable with a line around 4.75% and you are gambling rates will rise - which they will), it's still a better option to pay cash. I am not paying ANY INTEREST on my toys. "Safe instruments" (Money Markets, CD's) are only yielding around 2.0% - anything else and you are gambling with the market (for money you potentially don't have the stomach to risk). So, there is a differential in interest of around 2% to 5% (minus the write-off on the homec).

Actually, since I am flush with cash on a monthly basis (from not having a ton of monthly payments), I am considering purchasing a second home. This makes sense since it will be an appreciating investment - rather than extending myself with toys (depreciating investments).

Keith Wilton ~ If you read my post properly,It states that..You can take MUCH smarter route and let the money work for you.This means that I have money now to purchase a second home and didn't use it all on the boat!!In reality I can have the boat and a second home instead of JUST THE BOAT!!

I hear you Big Ed - but you are missing my point. I'm saying if you extend yourself with payments on toys you might not qualify for the home loan. Your debt ratio should not exceed 25% (technically it's 28% but it's recommended to keep it to no more than 25%). Since you aren't likely to pay cash for the house - you will HAVE to get a mortgage (the 50k in the bank from not paying of the boat helps but is only a fraction of the total).Your debt ratio will determine if you are able to qualify. Too much debt - no house - it's as simple as that.

Keith Wilton,

I don't think we disagree. I have a compartively low fixed monthly payment (we too could make it on 1 salary) which gives me plenty of buying power for what I deem are necessities Whole Life Insurance, IRA's, 401K's, College Funds, etc. I just personally have found using Equity Lines of credit perferable to signing a higher interest, non-deductible loans for auto/toy purchases.
My biggest regret in the last few years is having to sell my previous residence as opposed to renting it while it appreciated.

You and Big Ed are right in that it's smarter to have your money work for you but regardless of how you buy your boat it isn't an appreciating investment. Investments are a different topic all together!

Our boat is paid off. 1978 Starcraft with a Johnson 115 outboard. $800

You should never finance a boat. I am saving to pay cash. I should be able to afford one when i am 50! Do they make towers for pontoon boats?

At least we are all thinking, here.
Different strokes for different folks.
Thinking beats the heck out of the people out there who are assuming that a credit card company wouldn't send them an pre-approved card if they couldn't make the payment...
I am a little older than Ed and some others. I have excellent credit, don't need to build it up.
I prefer using cash to purchase other investments to make more money to buy the toys.
As has been said, boats and other toys don't make money.
I have leveraged other investments, but not my primary residence. I remember all too well the late seventies and very early eighties when home loans were in the 18-20% bracket, and inflation was out of control.
I have no intention of getting caught with my pants down should something like that happen again.
At 46 I have neither the time or the patience to start all over again. I am more focused on semi-retiring and enjoying life alittle more.

(Message edited by sam8 on December 28, 2004)

A little older!

Army Dad,

I'm a little behind you (34) but I remember the era your talking about. My dad cursed Jimmy Carter at dinner every night! I think your approach is sound. Just the fact your working towards semi retirement means more time on the water later!

mine is... 1990 prostar 190...

Opinions are like an... but...
There is a book I'm sure many have heard of... "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" by Robert Kiyosaki. While this may sound lame, reading the book changed my whole perspective on life and getting ahead. Army Dad is right. Let your investments pay for toys. Why finance your own residence to pay for a depreciating object?
If your not able to do so then atleast save up a hefty down payment so you're not upside down when it's time to sell.
I am more excited to see the equity increase in my home and have the opportunity to diversify into multiple appreciating investments, or a bigger pad.
Then again, I still have a lot to learn.
My 2 cents

A little personal info here,
I sure as hell ain't perfect and don't have all the answers....
I watched my father work himself into an early grave. We did nothing when I was a kid. He worked, and went hunting for two weeks a year. That was it.
I vowed as a kid that when I grew up and had kids, we would do things together.
We have, and do. It meant a little O/T for me, and my wife working as well, but it has been worth it.
I have one son on active duty with the Army, and one almost 16 at home. What the older son has experienced introduced him to alot of young folks. Their life stories have helped him understand how good he had it growing up.
Not spoiled. He earned everything he recieved, and knows how hard it is to make a buck.
We did buy a few quads, etc. on the "Easy Squeezy plan, but only after scrounging up at least 50% down. I hate payments, and even with money being as cheap as it is, I can stil make more by feeding my 457(b), dabbling in real estate out of Ca., etc.

Sensible, controllable debt is something we all face in this world, unless we are born wealthy.
Out of control payments, and rides on the credit card go round is what all you younger people need to avoid.

From my perspective, life is too damn short for that, and frankly, all the money in the world left to your children cannot take the place of good memories of spending time together as a family. Making those memories isn't as expensive as this generation is being led to believe.

End of Rant....

My wife made me do it!! She didn't care how! JUST DO IT!!!

who doesnt't have their boat paid for is a better question.

now that lots of people are convinced they need to take their home equity to buy a boat, call me for the best rates!

For a $50k boat in 15 years at 6% you would pay close to $70k.So you guys mean to tell me that you can't make $20k in 15 years with $50k..WOW

Kieth Wilton ~ I can get a second home loan it would be like a vacation home and that would be different.
On a different note there is only one purchase that possibly won't depreciate and that's realestate,every other will.and you only live once,so financing a boat COMEON.....So you guys mean to tell me that you pay your SUV CASH!!

NEWSFLASH FOR EVERYBODY that pays for your stuff cash!! AMERICA RUNS ON CREDIT,if it wasn't for credit nobody would have crap because there is not enough money to go around!!

Hey Joe,who do you work for out west???/My wife is an AE w/Wells.She is the financial brain in our household.

--TAX WRITE OFF--

Big Ed, thats why our dollar continues to decline in value relative to the rest of the world.
Joe, you should recommend some interest only mortgages if your talking to investors. even some longterm homebuyers, if property values are doing what everyone says. Rates will be low for a while. why not keep your principal?
Army Dad, you're right. Different strokes for different folks. at the end of the day, I don't like holding a lot of debt either. So, if you can afford to accelerate your payments to reduce the number of payments and the total interest you pay, do so. (But not on a house with an interest only mortgage,) Boats, cars, regular mortages.
I think people that save and save and save to buy a boat with cash are pissing in the wind. Why not put down half of what you saved, get a loan with a reasonable time frame (not 15 yrs!) and try to pay more on it than you owe each month. Applying dollar for dollar principal for anything above that month's interest. Take the other half of what you have saved, invest it. WISELY - not in the stock market! or your brother in law's garage widget company.

What it really boils down to (I digress, my boat is paid for..) the spread between the cost of borrowing and the rate of return on your investment. This isn't going to work if your credit sucks! Or your investing in CDs!

But... if you can earn a nice rate of return and borrow at a low rate, then put a nice size chunk down, make the payments, invest the rest and one day you will notice that you can pay the boat off early. Way early.

Home equity: still a good idea, during low rates. I don't think I would recommend to my client to buy a boat with cash. Maybe put up the nice chunky down payment, but generally speaking, there a other places in a person's financial situation that generally demand the cash. IRAs/retirement accts, college funds, etc.
my $.02, and then some

I’m not sure I qualify here - I do not own a ski boat yet, I will by the end of January. I bought a boat storage building first. 3.6 acres and a 48x50 building with cement floors and electric. I’ll use half and rent half to two other people.

Anyone need boat storage at Rocky Fork Lake Ohio? $150/mo. for about 16x34 sqft of space with a horizontal sliding door. The other ¼ is already taken. About 15 miles from the lake, if that.

When I buy my Moomba I was looking at nearly $200 a month for indoor storage for that and my fishing boat. Better to buy the space. My goal in 10 years is for the loss on the boat to be off set by the gain in the building.

It’s a plan, but then Gen. Custer had a plan.

Oh, I bought the building and I’ll borrow for the boat. Why? The building is in an LLC.

Generally I believe but you should own debt and incorporate assets.

Why don't you make your LLC's prime business a wakeboarding school? and write off the boat against the rental income from your rentors? Hell you can get your moomba for free if you get creative enough!

then depreciate your boat and the building

Nacho ~ As far as the U.S.dollar depreciating in value to the rest of the world!!BLAME PRES.BUSH FOR THAT ONE!!What we do here in America DOES NOT EFFECT U.S. DOLLAR especially spending your money for a U.S. product!

Where did you learn your economics??

it has more to do with inflation, which has been relatively low. But, international buyers of US denominated investments have been at record highs. until recently. when they begin to move out of US markets, someone has to buy what they sell. Since all americans have is a boat and a bunch of debt, the value of the dollar could go to hell. Speaking of debt, consumer debt is also at record highs. So you're not alone...

back the topic, so basically your boat isn't paid for.

No it is not but I could have and almost did or put a hell of a down but I figured I make decent money and if I lose my job I'm SOL anyway.I know a good trade so I'm not worried too much. Besides alittle home improvement and down payments my money usually stays = or just goes up so definetly not worried.
American dream is not paying your house off completly.That way you lose money in the long run.anyway too much to say about this topic so I'm just gonna end it now.

Big Ed - if you are not worried - then that's all that matters! To each his own...

We just upgraded to an older super air, paid cash for it. We try to pay cash for all of our personal stuff; but we aren't afraid of big loans for real estate/rental properties, stuff that appreciates and makes us money. Credit can be a good thing if it's used wisely.

Yes you could deduct the sales tax for 2004 even if it was a "new" 2003 model. There are standard tables for estimated state sales tax deductions, but if you itemize a new boat or car you will probably be better off. Check into it for yourself or talk to your tax advisor.

Big Ed, I must respectfully disagree with some of your comments and feel a few of them need clarification.
1) For a $50k boat over 15 years at 6% you would pay $75,947.11.
2) While money is historically cheap at 6%, where can you get a guaranteed 6% return on you cash right now? I believe in making your money work for you, but I don't know of any secure finance vehicle that provides 6% or greater return. After 100 - 200% gains over the past five years on the West Coast, placing money in residential real estate outside of your primary residense is little more than a specualtive bet.
3) What we do here in America very much affects the dollar. The dollar is hurt by our huge trade deficit - caused by the fact that we here in America spend more on foriegn imports than we earn by selling US exports. As you mentioned, buying US made boats won't hurt the dollar, but unfortuantely, much of our debt in aquiring such products is sold to foreign banks. That does hurt the dollar.
Just so you know, I do have a loan on my boat, but I'm paying it down as quickly as possible while maintaining a bit of financial flexibility.

Matt,

I agree with you (see my previous posts). Big Ed feels the need to justify his loan and lifestyle - waste of time arguing with him.

-Keith

Matt,

What Keith said..

credit is GREAT when used wisely. especially corporate credit under an LLC. or syndicated. Its how you become exponentially wealthy.

Matt - great points, but your investments, we should discuss. Secure investments can do a lot better than 6.
If ed pays his note twice a month, it could be worse, but I think you used a daily calculation...

Leverage appreciating assets and pay cash for depreciating assets. I paid $16,000 for my new 1989 2001. It’s still worth 10,000-11,000 16 years later.

The 1 thing everyone should know is:

A boat is not an investment it is a toy.

I bought my boat for used $26,000 cash and at the time the blue book was close to $34,000.
Buy used and save a ton of cash and use the extra $$ for your real investments.
If you look hard enough you can find great deals .
Buy in the winter or right after the summer when people are looking to sell. The winter months are the buyers market.

My $26,000 boat purchase is still worth over $28,000 two years after I bought it. Not just blue book but, I just got offered $28K to sell it.

Anyway my .02 cents

Keith ~ Don't be jealous of my lifestyle!!

Nobody here is argueing just descussing!!

To everybody that had some thing smart to say in this post about me QUIT HATING I just told you how I do it,and if you think it's wrong, you tell me how many % out there have there own house,new boat,new truck,jet ski's etc, before 30 years old!




and people that do your momy or daddy bought it for you!!

"and people that do your momy or daddy bought it for you!!"

That's a broad generalization. Are you including yourself in that statement?

How's this for something smart to say. If you have accumulated some money in your 20's, judging from your spelling, you just pocketed your college fund and blew off going to school.

HAHAHAA that's actually funny!!

No dumbass I just work hard for my money and get paid doing it without a college education and yes you are right I do need to work on my spelling,but who doesn't!

i don't! capitalization, on the other hand, that's a whole different subject!

Big Ed
Dont let the haters get to you.

We all look at this subject with a different view and we should all respect that.

To everyone,
Big Ed is a standup guy just expressing his views as you are yours.
Personnally I am on the other side of the fence than Ed but respect his Views.

oh yea Mastercrafts Suck!!!!! lol

Thanks Eric I'm glad that you understand that all I did is state my opinion and if I had a little guy to care for and a family maybe I would take a different route.

Again thanks Eric and I still like your boat even though you don't like mine.

Word

Ed;

As I said in my first post on this, different strokes for different folks, and at least everybody here seems to be thinking, not mastercarding themselves into oblivion...

Kudos to you, as it sounds like you are a stand up guy who is working his tail off to get what he wants. The world could certainly stand to have more of that character trait.

What you said about a child and a family changing things is what prompted this post.

As I said we had no toys when I was a kid. No slam on my folks. They worked hard to make ends meet.
I remember as a boy hearing my dad start his truck up to leave for work in the morning, and knowing that it was time for me to get up to get ready for school. I remember hearing him pull back into the yard at night as I was going to bed.
I remember thinking that it sure would be nice to see him, and talk to him, and just maybe watch a little TV with him on a Saturday night.
But it didn't happen that way.
He died about 4 months before his first grandchild was born, almost 21 years ago.

If that family materializes for you, please take a long hard look at your time and how much you spend working. There is a point of diminishing returns, and not spending time with your family is something you simply cannot make up for. Planning killer vacations that never quite happen won't make up for a simple Saturday in the back yard or at the lake.
You will be amazed at how quick your kids grow up.
Just my opinion and some food for thought..

AD

"NEWSFLASH FOR EVERYBODY that pays for your stuff cash!! AMERICA RUNS ON CREDIT,if it wasn't for credit nobody would have crap because there is not enough money to go around!!"

Sounds like something a loan officer would say, as he cashes in his lucrative commission check.

Personally, I think some of the real estate markets are way over valued, and we are due for a value correction. It has happened before. It happened here in Houston in the eighties, and there were thousands of people that lost their shirts on variable rate morgatages, over priced property, and over extended budgets. If you think that pulling every last dollar out of your house is a good idea, just think about when you must sell. If you have your money in other investments, you might not have quick access to it, and when you do have access, you might have to pay penalties for early withdrawl or large sell offs. If you don't have those penalties, you are probably in a low yeild investment, and won't do better than your interest on the money.

Personally I don't like the idea of pulling equity out of your house for a toy.

Unfortunatly most of us don't have $50,000 laying around to buy one of these toys.

And btw, I was one of those sub 30's who had a truck, car, house, boat, etc. Also had loans to go with them. Now that I am not a sub 30's person, I don't really want the privladge of those loans with the toys, and am working to get rid of as many loans as possible.

Army dad ~ Completly hear you!

Robert ~ You must of got me wrong,never did I say it was a good idea to pull out the last dollar out of your house and my loan is DEFINETLY NOT VARIABLE!My house is worth about $550k my loan right now is $300k after buying all my toys and having a fat bankaccount that I could most likely qualify for another $300k house and as we speak things are in the works and never am I going to put all my eggs in the same basket meaning paying $50k cash for a boat when fin. is soo cheap,but I only have me to worry about and the rest of my family are just as smart as me if not smarter so I'm not worried about them.lol

It works different for all!