Loudest 6 inch tower speaker

I should have one 1010 (w/ polk momo grills) mounted by the weekend. I'll try and post pics by monday and let everyone decide for themselves. Mine will be mounted directly in the center.

Single HLCD system

one more

Mike,
Yes I agree once again. I find it really difficult for people to comprehend the performance....until they ride behind one.
I'm even hesitant to demo in a parking lot while on a trailer. It's just not the same as while riding.
The other thing is the "wow, that's alot of subs" comment. I used to get a bit annoyed but now I think of it as an opportunity to share some knowledge.
Mike, will you be visiting the Skylon booth in Pleasanton? Looking at the floor plan I see it's right accross from Kieth and Loud Liquid.

The Pleasanton boat show is a "Manufacturer's" show so it is very regional. Manufacturer's like Skylon need to do a booth with the local retailer. Since Wakeside is in Portland, OR and our market is the whole USA and Canada, we do not qualify for a local boat show like Pleasanton.

It would be nice just to come down and meet others in the industry even though we can't do a booth.

Duane,
Do you have a pic of the top of a 1010? Do the mounting brackets come pre attached or can they be mounted in different positions. Does the front of the horn come off so I would have access to installing different mounting hardware?

I have a Samson tower now… see attached photo from their web site.

For mounting one 1010 on my tower… I am trying to determine if I will need a different way to secure it. I think the flat bar built into the underside of the tower will limit my ability to use your clamps.

Jeff,
Do your famous demo on them!!!

Jeff,
The clamp location is easily changed. We have pre drilled 6 different locations for each of the clamps. This equates to 3 front and 3 slightly rearward positions for each of the clamps.
We have not yet worked with that tower as yet but would like to. It looks like a nice style but I can't say too much from that picture.
However, with that image, my first thought is to consider mounting on the front tube. It appears to be round and of adequate width.
BTW, you should probably use the email link at the web site for more fit and install q's www.NVS1.net
Also, could you comment on the lights? NVS is now offering lights and the ones you have appear to be one of the models we are considering.
Mike, will your brother be at the show? I'd like to meet him sometime as well.
D out

Duane,

I believe that Tom will be at the Pleasanton boat show. The entire Skylon Deafcon Reference line should be on display and ready to test listen. Nothing like listening on the water at 75' back though.

They also have a great new adjustable tower that is similar to last year's Xtreme tower except the swoop is more aggressive and the tubing is 2 3/8" instead of 1 7/8". You will see it at the boat show as well. You can see the image of the new tower on Grant West's post on this thread on 12/4.

Mike

Mike, thanks for the heads up. I agree with the 75 feet. I chose a booth position that will facilitate that somewhat...as opposed to facing a wall or something.
I'll be sure to walk over and introduce myself.
Personally, I really like the fact that tower manufactures are going with stonger construction. In retrospect I think relying on the integrety of the boat hull to supply strength for the tower has proven to be a misguided notion.
I'd be interested in knowing how much it has cost the boat/tower folks and boat owners in terms of repair dollars for glass cracks and weld cracks etc.
Since the pic doesn't show the top very well (so many speakers in the way) can you tell us if a hinge type connection exists for collapsing to a very low profile? Does the rack support disconnect rather easily?
D out

The tower folds down below the windshield with very little effort.

I am posting only as this is the only post worth the incredible amount of information you can get to make a wise decision. I have learned allot about sound and audio...what works for someone doesn't work for someone else. The The costs and time to make end results. I have learned that if you want something nice you must pay the piper for giving you what you want. We all work to support our passion and to pay the bills. I can say from research that you cant save by doing it yourself if you don't value your own time. Duane and all these guys are not making the kind of dollars that these tower fabricators are making I can tell you that. I have priced Duane's parts out and I have no idea how he can make a living doing this. Sure you can save a couple hundred dollars but ....warranty...research..customer support.... it's just not there. I would rather see more input into tower fabrication. "Yes"... $300.00 max on tower materials......That's a big mystery to me. even at $10.00 a bend...where do you get $2,300.00.... I will be ordering from Duane when I am ready.. I hope this thread continues as it is only improving what we get in the end.... Thanks all......

Chris ~ I here what you are saying and I used to work for a guy who builds towers. The cost of everything sounds correct, but you are leaving out all the time it takes to cut, bend, weld, install etc. etc. etc. Not to mention the cost of machines I.e. Benders, CNC.

Another thing to remember is the tower fabricators can not do these towers out of there garage. Most of the time they need a shop big enough to store a few boats (and that on top of all the equipment)

As you can see the $$$ start added up, but again I agree they are expensive.

Hey antbug, yes i do agree it takes time..but not worth what they are charging....but i dont want to change the subject of this thread by may disbeliefs in tower prices. i would rather pick Duane's brain on the perfect sound system.....

After this weekend I will post some pic of the 1010's w/ the polk momo griles on Big Ed's X2.

For tower builders dont forget liability insurance, patent royalties, dealer margins, employees, taxes, etc, etc. We have been approached by several boat companies about OEM but becuase of our pricing structure it wont work unless we raise our prices. For OEM products that are first sold to the boat company, then to the dealer, then to you there are a lot of hands in that pot which is why you see the cost of OEM towers and accessories where they are, IMO.

For speakers, the cost of the audio is so high for good components I agree, it's hard to make money at tower speakers. Move to HLCD w/ProAudio midbass systems and the cost of components is really up there.

I also see an illogical oversupply of companies providing good tower speaker products in this market. Anyone see the latest WBM, several new tower speaker players in there.

People seem to always complane no mater what the price is for a said item. I understand that you dont want to throw money out the window and getting a great deal is very important. For you 4,000 dollars for a tower box or speakers might be way more than you would ever spend on your whole system. To someone who's passion it is or wants it a certan sound $4,000 is the price you have to pay to get that. Example your not going to win in car show with your lowerd Sion against a Lambo. LOL, IMO the NVS are cheep. I think that saying "You have to pay the cost if you want to be the boss" is funny and true. So all you ballers on a budget go to e-bay and search tower speakers if your looking for cheep sound.
But if you really want to rock it save your Penny's. BTW I did a test. Playing country music on your system will destroy your tower speakers warning NEVER PLAY COUNTRY music. LOL

Ok, like a 5 yo waiting for Santa, I went home to check on the delivery of my suurprise! My one Entity 1010 arrived. They look incredible with the new grills on them. I couldn't wait to get everything hooked up on my boat so I decided to hook it up to the sony surround sound in the house. I put in Breakin Benjamin's and turned it up gradually to about 3/4 of the way. It took me a sec to notice but my roomates dog had pinned herself in the corner, scared _hitless. I immediately turned it down. I coaxed her over to me, and noticed she had pissed herself! This is only the second time I've ever seen her do this. The dog is a party dog. The dogs name is beer spelled backwards. She knows what loud music is. Two should be illegal, I can't imagine how loud it will be with the proper wattage. I'll have the pics posted monday. FYI>>>For the PETA people out there, I am an animal lover and would never intentionally harm my dog or my roomates.

(Message edited by acurtis_ttu on December 17, 2004)

Hey, Grant, I was never complaining about prices. I agree with you fully....Your boat is a testement of quality workmanship. A true custom boat. Enities are really well priced.Monster towers also well priced.If i where paying over 2k for a tower...i would expect to see something more along the lines of a Jessie James west coast chopper style tower than a tuna tower... Thats all i am saying. Oh, and thanks for all the pictures you post of your work...It is really helping me with my boat.....

Mike,
I noticed on wakeside that the Deafcon III have a higher RMS rating than the Deafcon IV's. Is this correct?

The Deafcon III can handle more RMS power than the Deafcon V but they don't put out the Db at 85' like the Deafcon V. If the primary goal is incredible sound quality in and near the boat, the Deafcon III is definitely the way to go.

If one had a professional, clean and powerful amplifier like the one of the high-end Tru Technology amps, the Deafcon III's could easily handle 500 watts RMS per side at 2 ohms without distortion or speaker damage. These systems are all tested with 500 watts of professional level power without any damage when they are QA'd.

The problem is that most use Chinese made amps that have undersized power supplies and inferrior design. In addition, when people drink, their hearing becomes dulled and they crank it up until their unclean amp distorts and blows out the speakers.

Mike

Mike, Which amp(s) would you recommend?
How do the Fusions compare to the III's and the Alpha's?


Ken

(Message edited by 99air on December 19, 2004)

adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu)I met you at the delta one day. I have the black and white calabria with the 2 1010s.Glad to see you got rid of the evids.And dont worry about the dog.The first time i turned mine up I pissed MYSELF.

adam, after looking at your profile i guess it wasnt you.

I'm still waiting on the pics from how the one 1010 looks. Rushing it up to the river, I forgot the digital camera. I should hopefully have something up by the end of the week. One is definatley loud enough, but they are not quite as wide as I thought.

adam ~ I should have pics soon also, but my question is... if they were any bigger how would 2 fit?

Ken, I will discuss amps soon, we are in the middle of an amplifier project. Most of the amplifiers are made in China now and are not at the quality level that I want and many of our customers would expect. That is why we discontinued the four brands that we offered last season. We want to make sure that our amps can handle extreme marine conditions, perform as well as the spec sheets show, and the company stands behind their products (best would be zero warranty). We believe we have found the right line.

Regarding Fusion, Skylon Deafcon III Reference, and Titan Alphas, I would break it down this way:

The Fusion Combos use very high-end Diamond M3 series components and sound better than 95% of the wakeboard tower speakers out there. They can handle 150 watts RMS all day long without problems. Every review I have seen said that they sound great. The value is incredible right now at $699 per pair.

The Titan Alphas are available with MB Quart Discus, Reference, or Premium series components. All three sound good and can handle 130 watts RMS but the Reference and the Premium have larger diameter tweeters and sound even better. I would guess that the Alphas with Reference or Premium would sound very comparable to the Fusion Combo's. Two sets of Alpha I's would sound better because they would have two pairs of 6 1/2 inch mid-bass drivers while the Fusion has a pair of 6 1/2 and a pair of 5 1/4 mid-bass drivers. Alphas are known for their great styling and very light weight enclosures.

The Skylon Deafcon III's have two sets of marine grade (Poly) Image Dynamics Chameleon CX components. Anyone who knows ID knows that these components are in a whole different league than Diamond M3 or MB Quart. They can handle 250 watts RMS per side (even more with a high quality amp) and their sound is ultra high quality. For in and near the boat, there may not be a better sounding tower speaker not to mention ultra light weight composit enclosures and the carbon-graphite finish option.

If one is interested in high volume, high quality sound for the rider, then NVS and Skylon Deafcon IV or V reference is the only way to go. The horn loaded compression drivers (HLCD) and the 8 or 10 inch mid-bass drivers will do as Adam and Michale described above and the sound quality remains very high.

Mike

Adam,

I sent you a PM. Can you make a comparative statement regarding the EVIDS you used to have? Or is there no comparison between the EVIDS and one 1010?

This could be interesting. I thought this thread was dead (finally) and told myself I wouldn't post again, but this will be an interesting comparisson. I'm sure different, like a bit lower freq's if tuned in, but louder?
Well Adam?

Talltigeguy, I responded, but for everyone else. So far I only have one 1010 on my tower so can't respond to a pair. I'm using the same amp I was for the pair of EVID's as I am for the one 1010. Same crossover frequencies but the gain is turned down a bit more for the 1010. The one 1010 is definately louder, no questions about it. Both EVID and 1010 are a little harsh right at the back of the boatt when turned up to riding volume, but like Duane said the lower frequencies you hear back @ 75 feet make the music sound alot better. With the EVID's you get all the higher frequencies back at the rider. which is ok for some music, but start playing rock and the EVID's don't sound very good. Throw some rock to the 1010's and and they sound just as good. I've only been out once with this setup, it was preety windy and they still sounded great. I actually had the driver turn it down a little b/c it was too loud. Duane has managed to tune the horns to be perfectly in sync with the drivers. At lower volumes they sound excellent in the boat. The horns don't overpower the drivers at all IMO. I've worked on a custom setup using horns and have heard what it sounds like to overpower drivers w/ horns. Anohter good comparison someone used to describe the 1010's to me and I ound to be true. When listening to the EVID's, if you know the song you can hear everything, put in some music you don't know and you'll have a harder time hearing it. With the 1010's you can hear and understand the words in music you've never heard before. All and all the 1010's are a great system and are well worth the money. I still believe the EVID's are the best bang for the buck. At under $400 for the pair with clamps, you can't beat it.

Duanne, Mike, Adam
Is the following what I should consider before spending that much money?

If I want to here the music while riding, invest in the NVS or Skylon (IV or V's)?

If I want sound quality in the boat and on the beach, invest in something like the Skylon II's or III's?

I'm not bashing any products, just trying to figure out my priorities before I spend that much money. Sounds like they are all great products worthy of the cost! Help me decide.

(Message edited by JANSEN on December 22, 2004)

Adam,
Thanks for the review. I'm thinking that several people will be able to benefit from it.
Chris, Regarding the music 1) for the rider, 2) in the boat, 3) at the beach. My personal philosphy is:
1) Pro Audio equipment ONLY! (about 1KW)
2) Car Audio equipment does a real nice job (about 500W)
3) appropiate Fadding between 1 and 2 above is all you need with the following assumptions:
The interrior is fitted with at least 1 sub (about 500W)(does depend somewhat on your music choice) i.e. the more you like Hip Hop the more sub you will want. Also, the interrior should IMO have 4-6 good quality 6.5 drivers.
IMO putting speakers in the bow is unnecessary but that's just me.
Depending on your goals, this will provide good quality sound at modest to loud levels for each of the 3 conditions you mention.
Now, having said that, you may not be the biggest and baddest on the beach (at least around these parts) but you should have a very nice system that would be well beyond the average.
Good luck