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Old     (pdxviperguy)      Join Date: Jul 2006       06-18-2008, 2:08 PM Reply   
so here is a question for you. i have my boat for sale and have had several people very interested in it. One of the parties came to me and is ready to do the deal but has told me that they had a BK about 2 years ago and banks aren't interested in offering financing to them for another 6 months or so. Has anyone ever financed a boat themselves to someone who wanted to buy it. I own the boat free and clear and it would of course be insured should anything happen to it. Be kind here as I know most will say it's a goofy idea to even ask about. Just looking for your constructive thoughts and feedback.
Old     (lakeski)      Join Date: Dec 2006       06-18-2008, 2:11 PM Reply   
Danger. How well qualified are you at assessing risk? What looks good today can be trouble tomorrow.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       06-18-2008, 2:20 PM Reply   
I want to say a deed can be written and attached to their home....assuming they own a home. Not sure that means anything today in todays market.
Old     (pdxviperguy)      Join Date: Jul 2006       06-18-2008, 2:25 PM Reply   
i believe this person does own their home outright. apparently makes a couple of hundred grand a year and is a business owner but had a tough go of it when the hurricane hit down south and really impacted their business which has since ramped back up.
Old     (h2oproaccessories)      Join Date: Sep 2007       06-18-2008, 2:28 PM Reply   
How old is the boat? The older it is... the more interest the person will have to pay. You can pretty much get a loan for about anything. I havent ever herd of a boat loan for only 6 months. It looks like this guy has bad credit and thinks he can sucker you into it. If your selling the Supra thats on your profile.... a bank would be HAPPY to finance it. on that boat you could get at least 10 years.... that that I would want to do that or anything... I remember seeing your boat for sale I think. Nice boat..... I almost got an 07 Supra 21V.... decided to go with the ole 07 Mastercraft X-2.... I'm pretty happy with the choice. But anyways... also... how old is this guy wanting to purchase your boat?
Old     (rodmcinnis)      Join Date: Sep 2002       06-18-2008, 2:29 PM Reply   
It would be a major risk. There is a reason people have bad credit, and it usually because they didn't pay their loans before. What makes you think that they are going to pay you?

Just the idea of someone coming out of a bankruptcy buying an expensive wakeboard boat doesn't make sense to me. When you start over from scratch the last thing that you should be buying is a boat.

What would you do if they bought it, disappeared and you never saw them again? Maybe they didn't disappear, maybe they just stop paying.

A bank has the "system" down, the resources and experience to at least make a reasonable attempt to collect on a bad loan. They also have the proceedures and connections with the insurance company so that the bank will be notified if the insurance is cancelled.

What if the buyer bought a policy to make you happy, then cacelled it as soon as he got possesion of the boat? How would you know? What happens if he destroys the boat with no insurance?

The amount you stand to gain from carrying a loan is small compared to what you are risking. I sure wouldn't advise it.

Rod
Old     (pdxviperguy)      Join Date: Jul 2006       06-18-2008, 2:35 PM Reply   
thanks for the compliment Sean and for everyone's feedback so far. the boat I am looking to sell is indeed my supra. i blew out my acl and need to get rid of it before I get back on the water an re-injure it. I am lucky that I don't have to have surgery if I am willing to give up the boardsports and a few other things. you are right the boat is a very easy one to finance to say the least as it's a year old and I own it free and clear.
Old     (h2oproaccessories)      Join Date: Sep 2007       06-18-2008, 2:43 PM Reply   
I wish my bro inlaw made enough money and lived closer to the water... He would be pretty good at wakeboarding if he tried it. He snowboards pretty dang good.... just landed his first backflip at Meadows this season. He lives up in Sandy.... so I guess he isnt close enough to water either. I normally come up there during the winter to snowboard and once during august for work. I have been in the wilamet? if thats spelled right. you guys can have that COLD water man.... yikes.... scares me just thinking about it. lol. we ride from march to october with water I can deal with....but then again... it's alabama.... a little bit hotter and no snow melt....

tell this guy that wants your boat to stop smoking that oregon mountain grown pot.... and go see a bank... or oregon lab made meth.... (You guys are pretty popular for that stuff out there)
Old     (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       06-18-2008, 2:52 PM Reply   
Don't do it.

On the ACL thing, repair surgery is very effective these days. No need to quit doing what you enjoy, but I also totally understand if the injury caused you to lose the spark. I partially tore my PCL and MCL on my dirtbike a few months ago, and riding hasn't really been the same since I started back. I'm hoping that will change when my knee is back to 100%.
Old     (pdxviperguy)      Join Date: Jul 2006       06-18-2008, 2:59 PM Reply   
Thanks for the advice Trace. that is kind of what it is, is that after enduring the pain of that injury and being fortunate enough to be able to run, play basketball and lift weights without pain or swelling it's just not worth it to risk having it happen all over again. For those that have blown an acl, pcl or done really anything to a ligament, tendon or something of the sort you know what I am talking about. Wakeboarding is BRUTAL sport when get the board off the water let alone when you start doing inverts and spins aka pushing the envelope. I am 33 and in good condition but injuries take their tole mentally and physically.
Old     (flux)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-18-2008, 3:01 PM Reply   
NO!! NO!! NO!! NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

If they went belly up then they need to pay cash. You want to sell the boat, not loan it out for interest then have to go get it when they don't pay.
Old     (bulletlines)      Join Date: Apr 2005       06-18-2008, 3:06 PM Reply   
Bryan,

I would go for it, but write the note in your favor. I have a friend who more or less did a lease/option on his boat, and has had to repo it 3 times. However, he has come out way ahead, and still technically owns the boat. From what I remember he does a lease/option where the lease payments roll into the optional purchase. However, the lease is only good for 3 years, so the buyer has 3 years to complete the buy out option or he takes the boat back, and he gets to sell it again. Inside the lease there is full disclosure of a seller repo after being 60 days late, he requires the boat to be maintained at a predetermined marine mechanic and ETC.. . Here is is the kicker: he charged a non refundable $5,000 down payment that can only be applied to the balance on the buy out option.

IMO- it is worth entertaining if you own the boat out right..

Ken
Old     (wake1823)      Join Date: Dec 2005       06-18-2008, 3:20 PM Reply   
^^^^Agreed, as long as the buyer is local and you knwo where the boat will be.
Old     (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       06-18-2008, 3:20 PM Reply   
Hmm, a business owner making "several hundred thousand a year" that "owns his home outright" is having "financial borrowing problems"?

That sounds like utter B.S. BIG TIME!!!! If he is a business owner he should be pretty good with banks, EVEN if he wasnt, a home line would be pretty easy to snag. Overall it sounds like he is doing WAY to well to not be able to finance a boat purchase. Just remember dont gamble what your not willing to loose.
Old     (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       06-18-2008, 3:29 PM Reply   
Get on a SkySki, keep your boat, go bigger than ever & save your knees.
Old     (bulletlines)      Join Date: Apr 2005       06-18-2008, 3:30 PM Reply   
Sam,

I guess the buyer could take off with the boat, but that is what insurance is for. After 60 days late and the boat is not where it should be; then the boat is stolen.

I believe my friend also had a clause that the owner must keep the boat at a specific boat storage (buyer must pay), and the sellers name is on the storage rental agreement.

I cant remember all the specifics of the lease contract, but the seller is fully protected, and comes out way ahead if the buyer does not us the buy out option, or the buyer stops paying..

Ken

(Message edited by bulletlines on June 18, 2008)
Old     (stewart)      Join Date: Feb 2006       06-18-2008, 3:38 PM Reply   
DON'T DO IT!!!

I just repossessed our Motor Home from a guy that was an owner of an RV membership/timeshare program.

He had a BK 6 years ago and told me he would re-finance this summer.

We did 20% down, 10% interest only note and 1 year balloon. He just need to keep it insured and registered.

Long story short, from month one I had get after him to keep his insurance current. He didn't pay registration when it was due $986. We ended up paying it plus penalty. Finally, he missed one payment and we went and got it.

We were lucky. We had spare keys and knew which yard it was in.

Your boat, could be moved anywhere. And, you cannot break-in etc. to repossess. Study the repossession laws and decide for yourself.

In our case, we sold the Motor Home for $158,000. (Paid $164,000 the year prior) :-) Got 20% down, received 6 payments of just over $1000. Had to pay registration and penalty for over $1400 AND when we got the Motor Home back it had $3800 in damage. On the bright side, we can sell it now for ~ $128000 and still make money on the deal or break even since it books at ~ $150000.

We were lucky!



For you Bay Area guys, the company was RVX International out of Dublin, CA.
Old     (pdxviperguy)      Join Date: Jul 2006       06-18-2008, 3:39 PM Reply   
This my other thought. If something like this went together would I be able to just keep insurance on the boat? If it did disappear or in essence the buyer stop making payments why not just report it stolen and let the police and insurance company worry about it. i realize that is worst case scenerio but isn't that what insurance is for besides the obvious.
Old     (stewart)      Join Date: Feb 2006       06-18-2008, 3:59 PM Reply   
Because you are no longer the "owner" you are the lienholder. If it is done correctly, you sign the pink slip over to him and you fill in the lienholder information. He goes to DMV and gets it titled in his name and your named lien holder. Your protection being that he cannot just go and sell it now without you releasing the lien.

But, since it is no longer in you name, how can you insure it, let alone make a claim?
Old     (pdxviperguy)      Join Date: Jul 2006       06-18-2008, 4:01 PM Reply   
So it sounds like a if anything at all were to happen a $1 buy out lease sort of set-up might be a best case option.
Old     (jdrcrew8)      Join Date: Jun 2005       06-18-2008, 4:16 PM Reply   
If I were even going to entertain this idea I would do a couple of things.

Obviously check with your attorney and insurance agent and protect yourself far moreso than you think you need.

Maybe look into getting limited power-of-attorney from the buyer as protection. It will allow you to independently inquire about the status of the insurance.

Obtain a lien on his house for the amount of the loan. Have it updated and notarized regularly.

Install a lojack system on the boat somewhere it won't be found and don't bother to tell the buyer about it. Always know where your asset is.
Old     (stewart)      Join Date: Feb 2006       06-18-2008, 4:16 PM Reply   
You must be desperate......
Old     (pdxviperguy)      Join Date: Jul 2006       06-18-2008, 4:25 PM Reply   
You hit the nail on the head Stewart, I am desperate to sell something that paid for in cash, lol. As I have said before I don't like having it around as it's a temptation. I think my favorite quote that would apply here is this.....Don’t tempt an idiot with a good time…..

(Message edited by pdxviperguy on June 18, 2008)
Old     (stewart)      Join Date: Feb 2006       06-18-2008, 4:57 PM Reply   
Well good luck with it. Been there done that.

If you paid cash, you ought to be able to hold out for a better buyer, IMO.
Old     (h20jnky)      Join Date: Mar 2003       06-18-2008, 5:11 PM Reply   
it sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen.. why don't you just take a hit on the price and reduce to below market value for quick sale? at least you won't have to worry about liability when he decides to tow with boards in the racks and they fly off into someone's vehicle cruising down I5 at 65 and then the victim also sues you for the fatality it caused.. worse case scenario.
Old     (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       06-18-2008, 6:07 PM Reply   
lower your price and sell it to someone who can pay cash or get financing.
Old     (bac)      Join Date: Feb 2008       06-18-2008, 7:01 PM Reply   
Maybe its just me, but if I made a few hundred grand a year, I would be paying off a boat in CASH, especially a wakeboarding boat. Its not like he's trying to buy a few million dollar yacht or something. I'm guessing he's already spread himself thin with living a lifestyle he may not be able to truly afford. Something doesn't smell right about this deal, either he's completely full of it about what he makes or he's trying to take you for a ride. And I agree with another post above, if you are selling that Supra, I would think that alot of banks would take that risk, especially as the boat is basically collateral. The only other thing I could see would be that he is trying to build his credit back up by having it financed so he can show he makes his payments on it. I would be careful with this one
Old     (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       06-18-2008, 8:13 PM Reply   
If you are bringing in close to $1/4M a year, you could put a used wakeboard boat on your credit card for a year at 0%. Don't do it.
Old     (tracktor)      Join Date: Sep 2005       06-18-2008, 8:30 PM Reply   
Pull his credit, Get W-2's and paystubs, do a verification with his employer & get bank and asset statements. In other words, qualify your borrower. If the bank won't lend him money find out exactly why and decide if it's worth your risk.

Part if the issue I have with people like this is they haven't learned their lesson. Once you have gone BK once you should learn not to over extends yourself. Sacrifice & humble yourself to learn a life lesson from your mistake...............

(Message edited by tracktor on June 18, 2008)
Old     (bulletlines)      Join Date: Apr 2005       06-18-2008, 8:35 PM Reply   
I would for sure get a lawyer to write the contract, but you can work the legal cost into the down payment. Lo Jak would be a good idea, but I do not think it is necessary. If it came down to it, dont do the repo yourself. Have a pro repo company do it for you; this way it is done legally: just call up a local repo company and ask them what they charge to repo a boat; be sure the down payment more than covers the repo.

Dont be afraid to ask this guy for 25% down. He would be asked for a big down payment from any bank up to 7 years from the BK, and he knows this...
Old     (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       06-19-2008, 6:25 AM Reply   
I did it one time with a cheap little trade in here at the dealership with a guy that owns a tree cutting business, who I personally have done business with. He paid for the boat <$3k, and I let him pay me over a couple months for the trailer <$2k. In the meantime I had a $5k job for him on my property when he paid me the <$2k. Fast forward 1 year, he is now in collections and I gave him 3 more weeks or he is going to have a 25' boat sitting in the grass without a trailer.
Old     (pdxviperguy)      Join Date: Jul 2006       06-19-2008, 11:25 AM Reply   
thank you everyone for the information. I have decided to pass on the deal as the buyer is out of state on top of everything. A recipe for disaster as many have said!
Old     (x2fanatic)      Join Date: Jul 2006       06-21-2008, 11:08 AM Reply   
Unless you are a banking pro, and know the laws of not only your state but the state the buyer is in, don't ever do this. It's difficult for banks/CU's to repo boats because they can't always find them. Once someone stops paying they often stash the boat/car/rv where you can't get it back. Costs some bank lots of cash to get back the property, which they then have to sell at a deep discount or at a auction. You probably don't have the time or cash to hire a repo guy to get it back.
Old     (wakesetter101)      Join Date: Oct 2005       06-21-2008, 8:31 PM Reply   
No.
Old     (evil0ne)      Join Date: Sep 2006       06-22-2008, 8:23 AM Reply   
I say get the surgery and keep doing what you love. Otherwise, keep the boat to just cruise on the water. However, it sounds like you're set on selling, find another buyer.
Old     (goboating)      Join Date: May 2008       07-07-2008, 4:17 PM Reply   
I know people who have done quite a bit of this and have done it VERY successfully too. Also, my family was in the buy here pay here for several years and it can work really well, in fact I have done it on a few pieces of heavy equipment in the past. I suggest getting a good down payment and then have your attorney do the contract, prepared the same was as a banks. You do want to do a power of attorney and you will want to be listed on their insurance as well as the lienholder on the title. If they are in the same state, you can go with them to the DMV when the titlework is done to ensure this. Have their insurance agent call you and you can ask them to note on their file that you are carrying the note and to notify you if their insurance ever get's behind or canceled (they have to do this for the banks too). Also, in your contract have a right to inspect clause giving you the right to inspect the boat upon giving a 24 hour notice. Find out where they live as you can go to the property appraisers office for that county online and pull up their address to see if they own it or who owns it. You can tell how stable they are by this. I know a guy in site development who was broke and just want bankrupt 8 yrs ago. He just had some misfortunate things happen. He got back going and got a job and was paid 1/2 down, made the other 1/2 profit. He had to rent for 2 years as no one would give him credit. In his 3rd year he made $30 million!! Last year he made $120 million!! In the first couple years people worked with him and gave him a chance even though many others discouraged it. It can work contrary to what many will say. I am a boat dealer and do see tons of repo'd boats but over the last year or more I have seen very few wakeboard boats for whatever reason. Out of about 1000 boats a month that I see, I may see 1-2 wakeboard boats and the repo'd one's are near perfect as most take care of them.
Old     (pdxviperguy)      Join Date: Jul 2006       07-07-2008, 10:08 PM Reply   
I decided to pass on the other deal thanks to the great advice I received through this post. All the info I have received has been greatly appreciated. Ok how about another twist. If a buyer is coming from a significant distance out of state what is the best way to conduct the transaction. A buddy of mine delivered his boat and got a 4K wire transfer prior to ever hooking the boat up to the truck. Where the buyer is coming to me the tables are turned a little bit.
Old     (justcoz5)      Join Date: Apr 2007       07-07-2008, 11:24 PM Reply   
my first comment about this would be, if you don't feel comfortable with a situation, walk away from it. DO NOT GET SCREWED BY A SCAM!!!

I didn't reread everything, but if you have the title in hand, I would not hand that title over to anyone until you have verified funds. Verified funds I would consider a check from a bank where an employee of the bank handed it to me, or you have immediate access to the funds.

If the dude wants to use an escrow company, take it upon yourself to pick the escrow company and set that thing up yourself. Don't let them set it up.
Old     (trace)      Join Date: Feb 2002       07-08-2008, 6:32 AM Reply   
If he hopefully has a national bank, you can both go to his bank, and have the funds wired to your account (or transferred if you bank there too). The teller can confirm it right there on the spot. I've done this with a few things I've bought/sold.

Good advice on you choosing the escrow company, too.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       07-08-2008, 6:53 AM Reply   
You could have him bring a cashiers check, and call the bank to verify the funds as well. Just make sure you call the bank, not the number on the check(ie phone book).
Old     (committed)      Join Date: Jul 2005       07-08-2008, 7:45 AM Reply   
Couple of things don't pass the smell test.
1. Dude owns a home, yet has a BK? Why doesn't he just pull cash from a home he currently owns?
2. Dude claims a bad business deal, got him the BK, well who owns a business that isn't protected with a least a LLC, so in the event a BK happens, it doesn't effect your credit rating? This is business 101, beginner stuff.
3. Dude claims to make bank, then he can save his money for a month or two, since he doesn't have a mortgage and pay straight cash for your boat.

I think your about to get scammed. As long as your INSURED, no worries. Your rates may change for the future, but the boat is gone, and paid for. Request a major down payment, and if someone is making 100-200K a year, they can pull it.
I would never do it. My boat is paid for, and if I needed the cash that bad, I would rather short sell, and keep it simple.
Best of luck on this.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       07-08-2008, 7:52 AM Reply   
Most of the time if you own a small business and you have bank debt, you are on the hook personally as a guarantor. Should the company fall on hard times, the bank will come after you personally to cover the debt. Thats where he takes BK personally to protect his assets.
Old     (committed)      Join Date: Jul 2005       07-08-2008, 8:29 AM Reply   
Paul, like I said, this is business 101, you don't own anything, without protection. I own small businesses and all are protected under LLC's, so when one does go bad, my personal credit is untouched. And if you really do own a business, and your not protected, then you really need to rethink where your at, because if your business goes down, say good bye to your home and assets. LLC's take care of this. This is HOW the rich get richer, protection under the law is a great thing. I've lost one company this past year, victim of the economy and I couldn't care less, I simply started two more.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       07-08-2008, 9:02 AM Reply   
Chris,
LLCs are to protect you from personal liability. That is 101. 99.9% of the time, there is personal accountablity on structured finance through personal guarantees(like I stated in my previous post).
Old     (committed)      Join Date: Jul 2005       07-08-2008, 9:21 AM Reply   
LLC's protect the person, so in the event he wants to buy a new boat, there's not some lame BK on his record from a failed business attempt. That was my point.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       07-08-2008, 9:27 AM Reply   
Re-read my first post of today slowly. When I said small business, that can include LLCs, partnerships LLLCs, etc. Persoanl guarantees on company debt are very, very common.

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