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Old     (mikeakatex5)      Join Date: Jun 2009       03-17-2011, 8:11 PM Reply   
The weather is getting nicer and its time to get a boat in the driveway. I'm looking at either an Axis A20 or the Tige R20. I like the picklefork 20 footers if you can't tell. The demos are being set up as we speak ( R20 is happening this weekend ). Both dealers are around the same distance away and have been great so far. I just want to get your guys' thoughts on these two boats before I get them out on the water.

Oh yea, they are priced almost even.
Old     (jon_a)      Join Date: Feb 2003       03-17-2011, 8:55 PM Reply   
See this: http://diamondlakeswatersports.wordp...0-vs-axis-a20/
Old     (rt360)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-17-2011, 9:33 PM Reply   
I would guess you are from texas by your screen name.Both boats are awesome,the TIGE will be more fuel efficient because of hull design.i also like the graphics and color choices on the tige.The AXIS is a great boat also,you can't go wrong with either.I will be the first of many opinions you read.Just remember we are not you.We can only tell you what we like.Demo both and make a list,compare warranties and ask former customers about each dealers service after the sale.Hope this helps!
Old     (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       03-17-2011, 9:55 PM Reply   
I like the R20. As long as you avoid a white and black color scheme. it will look kick ass. I just hate white on boats, in my opinion it makes them look older faster, and can make a sweet wakeboat look like a bayliner.
would be cool if you switched to the alpha Z tower too, you would have a sweet boat!!!
Old     (nautiquesonly)      Join Date: Sep 2007       03-17-2011, 10:09 PM Reply   
Wow that comparison was a joke. A few of the things they pointed out on the axis as bad were actually good. I like the axis dash and windshield design. Docking is very easy without that side window. One can reach out and grab the dock.. The walk thru to the transom on the tige is retarded. You need cushions for the ladies to lay out on or at least a filler cushion. Plus they state you don't have to step on vinyl to get to the back. If you are not over six feet tall you are not going to be able to step from the floor to that walk through without stepping on a seat cushion. All that aside If the r20 is built with the same construction and quality as the other tige's it would be my choice. Also I believe Tige uses PCM which would sway me as well. Both My PCM engines have been great. My buddies with indmars that run a lot of weight seem to use oil. Not downing them just what I have seen. My PCM,s have not used oil under any circumstance. My biggest complaint with the Axis is the driver seat is too small. I am 6'2" 200 lbs and my a$$ barely fit it the seat. One of my favorite boat drivers is like 330 and there is no way he could shoe horn his A$$ into the driver seat. We have a friend with an a22 and the wake is awesome when loaded. He had a lot of issues with vinyl this year but he uses the boat a lot. Probably had 4 or five skins changed. I also like the rear facing middle seat. You gotta walk over it to get up front but it is great to have as passengers move around to balance the wake. The Axis is also Loud from engine noise inside cockpit compared to my nautique. Not sure it is powerplant ot just the design of the boat. Also the rub rail on the Axis is weird. It is a one piece unit that does not absorb well. My buddy had quit a few stress crack around the rubrail on his A22 from lightly bumping the dock.. He is a great driver and takes care of his stuff so they were not from hard impacts or abuse. The boat was taken back to the factory and repaired at end of this season. He had Malibus before after comparing the two the Axis is not build with the same quality that the Malibu is. That is my opinion and others are going to disagree. I have seen malibus ten years abused that have held up way better than his Axis after one season of normal use. It may just be because he got an early one and those bugs may have been worked out as a lot of people rave over the Axis. IF it were me and I liked both wakes I would chose the Tige. Bottom line is the build quality is great and they they have the best looking Gel coat lines on the water in my opinion. Add that to the PCM powerplant and it would be a no brainer for me. Demo both and see which one has the better wake and the best quality then make your decision. Let the Flaming begin.

Last edited by nautiquesonly; 03-17-2011 at 10:11 PM. Reason: Language
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-18-2011, 4:16 AM Reply   
Let's just say that my experience and my friends' experiences with axis boats differ from yours. I have friends with hundreds of hours on their boats who have had none of the problems you are describing. Odd.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-18-2011, 6:18 AM Reply   
I can say that the A20 produces an awesome wake. I had a chance to ride behind the prototype A20 last May and really really enjoyed it. That boat's been used heavily since then and is still in tip top shape. I'm getting my A22 out today for the first ride of the season. Supposed to be 80 degrees here in Chattanooga. Can't wait!
Old     (nautiquesonly)      Join Date: Sep 2007       03-18-2011, 6:45 AM Reply   
Like I said Chatt, My opinion. Is your drivers seat roomy and comfortable for a big guy or does it seem a little snug? Did they make it bigger? Both my buddies had the small chair and so did the A22 and A20 at the boat show. I saw the torn up vinyl on both my buddies boats myself. I gave credit where I thought it was due. I like the seating better on the axis and I like the tower. I said nothing negative about the performance of the boat. My friends developed cracks along the rub rail and around his pull out cleats. He is a factory rep so his boat gets used and trailered all over. Also loaned to other dealers so they may have damaged the boat. When I rode behind it I really liked it but it was noticeably louder inside. The indmar statements I made were based off of experience with them in mastercrafts. It is a great boat for the money. I prefer the look and powerplant of the Tige. Keep in mind I don't own an axisso this is a totally unbiased review. Also Chatt the small detailed issues I noticed with the gel cracks on the boat were noticed when we wiped it down in the sun at the end of a day. I did not see these flaws when we were riding down the lake. Also it is mostly black so things like that tend to show up easier.
Old     (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-18-2011, 7:00 AM Reply   
for about 5 more grand (roughly 10%) you could put MB 21 footers into the mix, they come with everything, and the best of everything...PCM, Zero off, and IMO...the best ballast system out there, alot more boat for a little more $$
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-18-2011, 7:05 AM Reply   
Dave,

It's cool man. All I'm saying is that I didn't notice those same issues on the boat's I've been in. I've also seen nautiques, mastercrafts, malibus, etc. that were promo or r&d boats that got absolutely trashed in one season, so alot of issues can be self inflicted and are not indicative of overall quality and/or of issues that will manifest themselves with normal use. I had bad gelcoat cracking on the exhaust vents on one of my SANTE 230's, but not on the other 230's I owned. Some boats just have issues, regardless of the manufacturer.

I do agree that PCM makes an awesome series of motors. I love their products. However, I have owned boats with inmar engines in them too and didn't have any problems. I've got the Raptor 400 in my A22, and I plan on running it with a lot of weight from time to time this season. I'll let ya know if it uses oil.

I know nothing of the newer tige' lineup. I haven't had an opportunity to ride behind any. I hope to this summer. They look sharp though!
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-18-2011, 7:06 AM Reply   
Drew,

How is an MB 21 "a lot more boat" than an A20 or an R20?
Old     (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-18-2011, 7:19 AM Reply   
I had no intention of stiring the pot, we all have our own opinions and expereinces, since you asked...here ya go...max hp 409, rated 14 to 16 people,vs 10 to 12, 1800lb factory ballast,65 gallon fuel tank all under floor, much more freeboard for safer weighting / surfing, and still has rear lockers that are twice the size of either mentioned, oh yeah, MB has a whole windsheild
Old     (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       03-18-2011, 7:35 AM Reply   
I am a boat guy so I can find something in every brand that I like both the Axis a 20 and tige R20 are nice boats but the towers on both boats are stupid short with little head room. on the A 20 when you step off the sun deck you run directly into the tower.With that being said given the two choices I would go with the tige just because you get a little more head room if you stay away from the Alpha z tower .My biggest complaint with most new boats this year after crawling through all them at the boat show was most had super short towers although they looked cool the head room would be a deal breaker for me.
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-18-2011, 7:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt360 View Post
I would guess you are from texas by your screen name.Both boats are awesome,the TIGE will be more fuel efficient because of hull design.i also like the graphics and color choices on the tige.The AXIS is a great boat also,you can't go wrong with either.I will be the first of many opinions you read.Just remember we are not you.We can only tell you what we like.Demo both and make a list,compare warranties and ask former customers about each dealers service after the sale.Hope this helps!
How do you figure the tige will be more fuel efficent? The a20 has the exact same hull as the VTX. I have a VTX and my boat is very fuel efficent for a wake boat.
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-18-2011, 7:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by nautiquesonly View Post
Wow that comparison was a joke. A few of the things they pointed out on the axis as bad were actually good. I like the axis dash and windshield design. Docking is very easy without that side window. One can reach out and grab the dock.. The walk thru to the transom on the tige is retarded. You need cushions for the ladies to lay out on or at least a filler cushion. Plus they state you don't have to step on vinyl to get to the back. If you are not over six feet tall you are not going to be able to step from the floor to that walk through without stepping on a seat cushion. All that aside If the r20 is built with the same construction and quality as the other tige's it would be my choice. Also I believe Tige uses PCM which would sway me as well. Both My PCM engines have been great. My buddies with indmars that run a lot of weight seem to use oil. Not downing them just what I have seen. My PCM,s have not used oil under any circumstance. My biggest complaint with the Axis is the driver seat is too small. I am 6'2" 200 lbs and my a$$ barely fit it the seat. One of my favorite boat drivers is like 330 and there is no way he could shoe horn his A$$ into the driver seat. We have a friend with an a22 and the wake is awesome when loaded. He had a lot of issues with vinyl this year but he uses the boat a lot. Probably had 4 or five skins changed. I also like the rear facing middle seat. You gotta walk over it to get up front but it is great to have as passengers move around to balance the wake. The Axis is also Loud from engine noise inside cockpit compared to my nautique. Not sure it is powerplant ot just the design of the boat. Also the rub rail on the Axis is weird. It is a one piece unit that does not absorb well. My buddy had quit a few stress crack around the rubrail on his A22 from lightly bumping the dock.. He is a great driver and takes care of his stuff so they were not from hard impacts or abuse. The boat was taken back to the factory and repaired at end of this season. He had Malibus before after comparing the two the Axis is not build with the same quality that the Malibu is. That is my opinion and others are going to disagree. I have seen malibus ten years abused that have held up way better than his Axis after one season of normal use. It may just be because he got an early one and those bugs may have been worked out as a lot of people rave over the Axis. IF it were me and I liked both wakes I would chose the Tige. Bottom line is the build quality is great and they they have the best looking Gel coat lines on the water in my opinion. Add that to the PCM powerplant and it would be a no brainer for me. Demo both and see which one has the better wake and the best quality then make your decision. Let the Flaming begin.
It's true the axis isn't the same quality build as the malibu, but it's also 20-30k cheaper. You can't expect them to put the same quality into a boat and then sell it for that much cheaper. I have no idea what you're talking about with the drivers seat. I'm 6'1 and 230lbs and if anything I thought the drivers seat was too large on the axis A22. I don't know about the new tige's, but I do know tige has had gel coat issues in the past.
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-18-2011, 7:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by surffresh View Post
I had no intention of stiring the pot, we all have our own opinions and expereinces, since you asked...here ya go...max hp 409, rated 14 to 16 people,vs 10 to 12, 1800lb factory ballast,65 gallon fuel tank all under floor, much more freeboard for safer weighting / surfing, and still has rear lockers that are twice the size of either mentioned, oh yeah, MB has a whole windsheild
It's a 21 foot boat over 20 foot boats. It compares with boats like the VLX not the a20 and r20, of course it has a higher capacity, it's a bigger boat. The free board int the MB isn't all the much better than the axis, and when compared tot he other 21 foot boats is actually worse. It also has the ugliest pickle fork in the industry.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-18-2011, 7:59 AM Reply   


Hmmm. I did not notice any headroom issues with the A20 tower. With the z5 on my A22 and wetsounds 485's, I have the exact same amount of headroom that I had in my 230. Do you have a measurement for the height of the tower in the R20 vs. the A20?

So the MB has an optional motor with 409 hp vs. 400 for the A20, the MB (which is a foot longer) can seat 14 vs 11 in the A20, the MB can hold more gas, has more factory ballast (less, actually, if you add the plug n play bags to the A20), and has a different windshield. Have you measured the locker sizes in the A20?

For the record, I think MB makes great boats! I'm just responding to your comments, that's all. Please don't take offense.
Old     (stang_killa_ss)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-18-2011, 8:05 AM Reply   
having compared both at the boat show, i thought the tige was a nicer/plusher looking boat inside.
both are great.
i do like the wedge and PnP ballast on the axis.

Last edited by stang_killa_ss; 03-18-2011 at 8:08 AM.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       03-18-2011, 8:11 AM Reply   
I've only ridden in two Tiges. The last one was a brand new boat, right off of the show room floor in 2008. When we loaded it down heavy, the additional stress made the hatches, the dash, everything, rattle and shake until the boat got on plane. Malibu has this covered.

Flame away. Just sharing my personal experience.

Also, I can't speak for the efficiency of these specific boats, but the new Malibu LSV we just ordered has the best fuel economy of anything else we have owned. The completely slammed LSV pulled our double up tournament all day on one tank of gas at high altitude. It was a shocker.
Old     (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-18-2011, 8:14 AM Reply   
thanks chat, I did a little measuring at the show and stood in both and measured up here on my leg and then we tried putting surf boards in the lockers, MB won that unscientific measurement, but come on Chris, useing the word "UGLY" is a straight up bash, MB also has a 21 TWB if you do not care for the pickle fork, to the guy that started the post...welcome to wake boat ownership and happy deal making / test rides !
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-18-2011, 8:16 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by surffresh View Post
thanks chat, I did a little measuring at the show and stood in both and measured up here on my leg and then we tried putting surf boards in the lockers, MB won that unscientific measurement, but come on Chris, useing the word "UGLY" is a straight up bash, MB also has a 21 TWB if you do not care for the pickle fork, to the guy that started the post...welcome to wake boat ownership and happy deal making / test rides !
It may be a bash, but it's true, and if you go to the 23 it only gets worse. I think MB is one of the most inovative boat makers out there and have been on record saying so in the past here, but that doesn't change the fact that their pickle fork design is terrible. those nobs sticking off look goofy, there is no way around it.
Old     (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       03-18-2011, 8:21 AM Reply   
Chatt I'm sure once under the tower you are fine since the A22 and A20 have the same tower but the A20 is two feet shorter and places the rear tower bar all most in line with the swim deck so when stepping off the sun deck into the cabin of the boat you run right into it.The tige tower might not be taller but is shaped differently to give better access.Something else I did not care for was the fake pickle fork on the A20 and R20 as the bow area on both is small and shaped like a conventional wake boat so no benefit there just looks.Now with that being said both are very nice boats it just comes down to what best suits your needs and appeals to you the most
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-18-2011, 8:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by surffresh View Post
thanks chat, I did a little measuring at the show and stood in both and measured up here on my leg and then we tried putting surf boards in the lockers, MB won that unscientific measurement, but come on Chris, useing the word "UGLY" is a straight up bash, MB also has a 21 TWB if you do not care for the pickle fork, to the guy that started the post...welcome to wake boat ownership and happy deal making / test rides !
You're not going to be able to put a foam core surf board in any 20ft storage locker. You could fit most composite surf boards in them. They are 20ft boats they are going to have some limitations.
Old     (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-18-2011, 8:23 AM Reply   
it's your opinion....the 21ft Tomcats sell 3 to 1 over the 21ft TWB at the exact same price
Old     (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       03-18-2011, 8:23 AM Reply   
edit sun deck
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-18-2011, 8:24 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by h20king View Post
Chatt I'm sure once under the tower you are fine since the A22 and A20 have the same tower but the A20 is two feet shorter and places the rear tower bar all most in line with the swim deck so when stepping off the sun deck into the cabin of the boat you run right into it.The tige tower might not be taller but is shaped differently to give better access.Something else I did not care for was the fake pickle fork on the A20 and R20 as the bow area on both is small and shaped like a conventional wake boat so no benefit there just looks.Now with that being said both are very nice boats it just comes down to what best suits your needs and appeals to you the most
They are true pickle forks, for what that's worth I guess. The reason the a20 capacity is 11 vs the VTX 10 is the pickle fork. All a pickle fork does is give you more bow room and a different look
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-18-2011, 8:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by surffresh View Post
it's your opinion....the 21ft Tomcats sell 3 to 1 over the 21ft TWB at the exact same price
Do you have anything to support that claim? I'd be willing to bet the other pickle forks in the industry sell 3 to 1 over the MBs. While MB does a great job making nicely priced inovative boats they don't do a good job with gel coat, vinyl and pickle fork design.
Old     (ryansgt)      Join Date: Aug 2006       03-18-2011, 8:30 AM Reply   
Looked at the mb's. The front pickle fork did turn me off. I too think it is ugly. I rode behind the axis, for what it's worth, the wake is perfect without the taps and the wedge definitely adds a lot of ballast without filling the storage spaces. getting the plug and play might even be too much for the casual rider. I did have a friend with a 20ve. It was a nice boat but i felt he overpaid for it.

That comparo is a joke, those are all subjective. I personally would rather they leave off the wetsounds. One more thing to get stolen when it's parked. I never had any issue with tower height on any boat. If you are a giant, learn to duck.
Old     (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-18-2011, 8:34 AM Reply   
looks like you want to fight / spar/ slam, got better things to do, just look at inventory, boat trader and onlyinboards, MB was #2 in wake boat sales for CA and the 21ft Tomcat was MB's # 1, have a nice day
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-18-2011, 8:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by surffresh View Post
looks like you want to fight / spar/ slam, got better things to do, just look at inventory, boat trader and onlyinboards, MB was #2 in wake boat sales for CA and the 21ft Tomcat was MB's # 1, have a nice day
Once again, can you support your claims? My issue is that you're trying to compare 20ft boats wiht larger models than "slamming" how they don't compare. Doesn't make any sense what so ever. MB is a small boat manufacture, they don't make near the amount of boats the big 3 do, I doubt they out sold mastercraft, correct craft, or malibu in CA.
Old     (surffresh)      Join Date: Jun 2010       03-18-2011, 8:40 AM Reply   
WRONG ! they were #2 to Malibu, and yes they outsold MC and CC
Old     (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       03-18-2011, 8:40 AM Reply   
http://tige.com/boats/r20
http://www.axiswake.com/a20/default.htm
check out both links you can see what I'm talking about with the A20 tower and the fake pickle fork design more so on the tige than the axis.Chris it is true that MB is known for its ugly gel coat but the solution to that is just order it in all black. I personally love the look of the F21 but agree the F23 is the ugliest boat on the market.There are give and takes on all brands the MB has a much better tower and ballast system than the other two but the sun deck is way way to small like I said before it is all just personal preference and what best suits your needs and budget all make of wake boats are nice these days and I would personally own any of them
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       03-18-2011, 8:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by surffresh View Post
for about 5 more grand (roughly 10%) you could put MB 21 footers into the mix, they come with everything, and the best of everything...PCM, Zero off, and IMO...the best ballast system out there, alot more boat for a little more $$
Because he didn't ask about MBs. The title clearly says A20 or R20. If he wanted to ask about an MB, I am sure he would have mentioned it.
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-18-2011, 8:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by h20king View Post
http://tige.com/boats/r20
http://www.axiswake.com/a20/default.htm
check out both links you can see what I'm talking about with the A20 tower and the fake pickle fork design more so on the tige than the axis.Chris it is true that MB is known for its ugly gel coat but the solution to that is just order it in all black. I personally love the look of the F21 but agree the F23 is the ugliest boat on the market.There are give and takes on all brands the MB has a much better tower and ballast system than the other two but the sun deck is way way to small like I said before it is all just personal preference and what best suits your needs and budget all make of wake boats are nice these days and I would personally own any of them
I could definately see where you'd be coming from on the tower thing. The tige towers look kind of like a reverse illusion tower, which is what is on my boat, and the only reason it's out of the way is how it swoops forward. If you're putting the same tower on a 20 ft boat you put on a 22 foot boat it will be much closer to the sunpad. The positive is the axis tower is pretty tall, my illusion tower is short and if it was like a normal tower it would be in the way.
Still not sure what you mean by fake pickle fork though

Last edited by cjh1669; 03-18-2011 at 8:47 AM.
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-18-2011, 8:50 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by surffresh View Post
WRONG ! they were #2 to Malibu, and yes they outsold MC and CC
Supply the data please
Old     (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       03-18-2011, 8:52 AM Reply   
Chris check out this link and compare the bow to the other links http://www.mbsports.net/model_view.asp?model=f21tomcat as you can see a true pickle fork will relay open up the space in the bow more of a square than a triangle.I should also add I do not own any of the brands mentioned so I am not pushing any of them just pointing out things that jumped out at me when I crawled through them all at the boat show.
Old     (bhyatt_ohp)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-18-2011, 8:53 AM Reply   
I want a side by side wake picture comparison. How can a true "comparison" be done with it sitting at the shop? I feel alot of people get way too wrapped up in the petty details.

How does the boat perform? More importantly, when its loaded down with weight? Whats the wake like? etc. - that's what really counts the most to me.
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-18-2011, 8:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by h20king View Post
Chris check out this link and compare the bow to the other links http://www.mbsports.net/model_view.asp?model=f21tomcat as you can see a true pickle fork will relay open up the space in the bow more of a square than a triangle.I should also add I do not own any of the brands mentioned so I am not pushing any of them just pointing out things that jumped out at me when I crawled through them all at the boat show.
The problem you have is with a 20ft hull your bow is going to be small no matter what. You want to use as much space as you can behind the windshield, becasue that's really where people ride in the boat for the most part. That all being said the pickle fork does add enough space in the bow to give the a20 an extra person rating over the VTX, whihc has the exact same hull. All in all I'm not a huge fan of the pickle fork as a whole. Really it's only use is extra space and a different look. I actually am not a huge fan of people riding in the bow, because it's usually kids that want to do so, and it's dangerous as hell for them. Also the only reason I bought a 20ft boat was to fit it in the garage, and the pickle fork makes that more difficult.
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-18-2011, 9:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhyatt_ohp View Post
I want a side by side wake picture comparison. How can a true "comparison" be done with it sitting at the shop? I feel alot of people get way too wrapped up in the petty details.

How does the boat perform? More importantly, when its loaded down with weight? Whats the wake like? etc. - that's what really counts the most to me.
The A20 has the same hull as the VTX, here is a pic of my VTX wake with 1300lbs of ballast and power wedge. The powerwedge gives you a few hundred extra pounds vs the free floating wedge, but it would be pretty close.

Oh and my VTX drives like a sports car, even when weighted down. I've never driven a more responsive boat.
Attached Images
 
Old     (trentj6930)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-18-2011, 9:04 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjh1669 View Post
They are true pickle forks, for what that's worth I guess. The reason the a20 capacity is 11 vs the VTX 10 is the pickle fork. All a pickle fork does is give you more bow room and a different look
Actually the seating capacity for the 2011 VTX is 11. Right from the Malibu website.

Length
20′
Beam
98′
Draft
22′
Weight
3300 lbs.
Seating Capacity
11 persons
Weight Capacity
1450 lbs.
Fuel Capacity
48 gal
Standard Hull Type
Wake
Standard HP
330HP
Max HP
410HP
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-18-2011, 9:05 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by trentj6930 View Post
Actually the seating capacity for the 2011 VTX is 11. Right from the Malibu website.

Length
20′
Beam
98′
Draft
22′
Weight
3300 lbs.
Seating Capacity
11 persons
Weight Capacity
1450 lbs.
Fuel Capacity
48 gal
Standard Hull Type
Wake
Standard HP
330HP
Max HP
410HP
May have changed for the 2011, I know my 07 is 10
http://waterskimag.com/ski-boats/200...setter-20-vtx/

Last edited by cjh1669; 03-18-2011 at 9:08 AM.
Old     (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       03-18-2011, 9:09 AM Reply   
Chris I agree I also have a 20 footer and my bow is as big or bigger than the two listed and is the standard shape and is seldom used. as you can see by checking out the pic the A20 and R20 relay give no space benefit just looks
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Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-18-2011, 9:11 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by h20king View Post
Chris I agree I also have a 20 footer and my bow is as big or bigger than the two listed and is the standard shape and is seldom used. as you can see by checking out the pic the A20 and R20 relay give no space benefit just looks
You might be right, I haven't climbed in either of them. The only axis I've been in is an a22, whihc you get quite a bit of bow room
Old     (trentj6930)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-18-2011, 9:16 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjh1669 View Post
May have changed for the 2011, I know my 07 is 10
http://waterskimag.com/ski-boats/200...setter-20-vtx/
So was my 2007 VTX. I am not sure why the change? Considering the boat has not changed at all in the hull or running gear. Just the electronics. All I know is my new one can seat 11

Now it just needs to get here.

As far as the A20 is concerned. This is a great wakeboard boat for the money. Yes the interior is not quite as high a quality as in the Malibu. Yes they are stripped down in some of the features. This is done on purpose to
keep the costs down. Up here the MB TWB was running in the mid $80's and a loaded A22 is $59.

The tiges have improved a lot but there are some things I really dont care for. Just like all the boats out there, each brand has some great, and not so great features.

I really think the decision between the two boats should come down to the dealers. Which dealer has a better reputation in your area? You can have a great boat and a crap dealer.
Old     (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       03-18-2011, 9:17 AM Reply   
Yep the A22 is a true pickle fork and relay opens things up. but it will be interesting to see how well the wind shield on the axis holds up after a couple years getting pounded by double up's I'm just not sold on the no side support design although it looks cool
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-18-2011, 9:19 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by trentj6930 View Post

I really think the decision between the two boats should come down to the dealers. Which dealer has a better reputation in your area? You can have a great boat and a crap dealer.
I also think this is the most important. Dealing with Brian at Tommy's here in denver has made me a customer for life.
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-18-2011, 9:21 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by h20king View Post
Yep the A22 is a true pickle fork and relay opens things up. but it will be interesting to see how well the wind shield on the axis holds up after a couple years getting pounded by double up's I'm just not sold on the no side support design although it looks cool
It's pretty stable. I've driven quite a few A22's and it's nice. The one draw back is it doesn't protect you when the wind picks up from the side. The driver, and everything around him, gets splashed pretty good fairly easily. The big plus is talking tot he rider when you're coming around though

Last edited by cjh1669; 03-18-2011 at 9:25 AM.
Old     (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       03-18-2011, 10:14 AM Reply   
I am biased since I have an A22. For whatever it is worth the A20 has a wider beam 98 vs 94 and holds more fuel 48gal vs 38gal. I honestly think Tige makes the best looking boats on the market. Really you can't go wrong with either boat. Personally I would get the A20 but like I said I am biased.

On the seat thing I ride with Chris all the time and he has driven our A22 a TON. I am a big guy 6' 220 and I fit no problem. Like Chris said he is 6'1 230 and he fits just fine. No one has ever gotten on our A22 and complained about the size of the driver's seat.
Old     (mike2001)      Join Date: Feb 2008       03-18-2011, 10:38 AM Reply   
In this thread - Axis owners who say Axis is the best and Tige owners who say Tige is the best.

OP, test drive them both and make sure you board, surf, skate or do whatever you plan to behind both of them and then decide for yourself. Good luck.

Dave - hilarious what you said about shoe-horning your buddy into the driver seat.
Old     (michaelspsp)      Join Date: Sep 2007       03-18-2011, 10:50 AM Reply   
Shoe horn into the seat? i dont understand. Im 5'10" 215 lbs, i had plenty of room to spare when i drove the A-22. I was on the A-22 with Axis Adam McCall. he is 6'1 or 6'2" he looked pretty darn comfortable pulling all of us....
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       03-18-2011, 11:03 AM Reply   
I own a Tige and I would probably be more biased towards the Tige but it's honestly personal preference! Go check out your dealer(s), test drive them both, take the family/friends with you and RIDE behind BOTH boats and see which one you like better. When you spend this kind of coin, you better make sure you drive and ride behind both of them because you may not like the one you think you will. Both great boats for the money. If you are into surfing, check out the surf wave on both too, the R20/RZR is supposed to have a great wave. Good luck!
Old     (mikeakatex5)      Join Date: Jun 2009       03-18-2011, 11:29 AM Reply   
Wow, thanks for all the responses. I guess I should clarify that I live in CA but grew up in TX. I have looked at MB along with just about every other boat out there, and these 2 are the ones I want on the water. I think its really going to come down to wake and space as most other aspects of the two boats are either equal or trade offs in my eyes. Tower clearance is something I'm going to take another look at because I really don't like low towers. I've had kicker imprinted on my forehead from my buddies tower speakers on his vlx... not cool. The pic of that vtx wake looks pretty awesome. Any more vtx owners/riders want to talk about the ups and downs on the wake?
Old     (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       03-18-2011, 11:56 AM Reply   
Sounds like you have done your homework Mike. Let us know what you think after you get them both on the water!
Old     (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       03-18-2011, 12:31 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjh1669 View Post
How do you figure the tige will be more fuel efficent? The a20 has the exact same hull as the VTX. I have a VTX and my boat is very fuel efficent for a wake boat.
Tige has a convex v hull to create less drag.When used with taps less hull is in the water,much like offshore racing boats.They use less fuel because they have less drag.About 3 to 3.5 gallons per hour when unweighted.Compare to any other boat and you will see a great difference.
Old     (rt360)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-18-2011, 7:22 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhyatt_ohp View Post
I want a side by side wake picture comparison. How can a true "comparison" be done with it sitting at the shop? I feel alot of people get way too wrapped up in the petty details.

How does the boat perform? More importantly, when its loaded down with weight? Whats the wake like? etc. - that's what really counts the most to me.
EVERYONE please take note.BRANDON'S OPINION IS THE MOST IMPORTANT!If you don't believe me just ask him.Don't worry about the petty details,just ask Brandon!
Old     (nautiquesonly)      Join Date: Sep 2007       03-18-2011, 9:53 PM Reply   
Guys I did't realize I would hit a nerve when I said the seat seemed tight to me. Maybe I have a big a$$. It could also be that the back portion of the seat seems more rounded making it more of a hugging fit than I am used too. My boat has a seat that is 3 pieces two sides and a back so it is pretty much just as wide at the back of the seat as the front. It does not contour like the seat of the axis. I did not say that alone would keep me from Buying one. I like PCM and the gel lines on the tige. When I rode the Axis I really liked the wake. I also really like the flip up seat in the walk way that lets you sit 3 wide in the bow and behind the windshield.
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-19-2011, 8:17 AM Reply   


Here is the seat from behind, that bruizza to the left and me driving, I weigh around 222lbs in this pic. The seat itself is larger than the seat on my malibu.
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-19-2011, 8:28 AM Reply   

Here is the bow in my VTX. Where I think the pickly fork will help on the A20 is adding more space for the plug and play bow sack, which should add quite a bit of weight. Not sure how much it is, but the A22 is a 900lbs bow sack. I just added an intergrated bow sack to replace the 400lbs sack in the walk through of the pic. I should get about 500lbs out of it under the cushions instead of in the walk through. Also added 750's to the lockers
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-19-2011, 9:55 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by h20king View Post
Chatt I'm sure once under the tower you are fine since the A22 and A20 have the same tower but the A20 is two feet shorter and places the rear tower bar all most in line with the swim deck so when stepping off the sun deck into the cabin of the boat you run right into it.The tige tower might not be taller but is shaped differently to give better access.Something else I did not care for was the fake pickle fork on the A20 and R20 as the bow area on both is small and shaped like a conventional wake boat so no benefit there just looks.Now with that being said both are very nice boats it just comes down to what best suits your needs and appeals to you the most
I'm not sure i understand the use of "fake pickle" here The bow area on the R20/RZR is much larger then the bow area on the old 20V. Same with the RZ2/4 bow as compared to the Ve bow.

I think Tige and Axis both did a great job going a pickle-fork boat for added bow area while keeping at that 20ft mark. $.02
Old     (rt360)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-19-2011, 8:43 PM Reply   
Just watched the axis video of randall harris.jacob valdez,melissa marquette,and others.Man that is a sick wake.I will probable see the wake on a r20 within the next couple of weeks.If it's anything like my 22ve it will be sweet also.Thats why it's best to demo a boat,then you can see what you want to see about it.
Old     (silvermustang35)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-21-2011, 6:45 AM Reply   
A20 Wake pic, Wedge/PNP
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Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-21-2011, 8:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by silvermustang35 View Post
A20 Wake pic, Wedge/PNP
What size rear bags do you have for the PNP? Also what size is the bow sack?
Old     (silvermustang35)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-21-2011, 8:57 AM Reply   
Standard PNP bags, 550s in the rear and 600 in the bow, 9 people in the boat.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-21-2011, 8:58 AM Reply   
Such a nice wake. I love riding behind Bishop's A20!
Old     (silvermustang35)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-21-2011, 9:00 AM Reply   
figured you would recognize that pic Tom!
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-21-2011, 9:09 AM Reply   
550's? I thought the standard PNP bags for axis were 400's
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-21-2011, 9:30 AM Reply   
Who's the rider...
Old     (silvermustang35)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-21-2011, 9:45 AM Reply   
They are 400s but on the website they explain they will expand to 550.
Also, the A20 is not the vtx hull, it is similar to it but its not the same hull. Axis made changes to optimize the wake size and tune/shape it for wakeboarding and wakesurfing in mind.

Chatt-- It's Bishop ridin switch warmin up.
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Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-21-2011, 9:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by silvermustang35 View Post
They are 400s but on the website they explain they will expand to 550.
Also, the A20 is not the vtx hull, it is similar to it but its not the same hull. Axis made changes to optimize the wake size and tune/shape it for wakeboarding and wakesurfing in mind.

Chatt-- It's Bishop ridin switch warmin up.
What tweaks did they make to it?
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-21-2011, 9:52 AM Reply   
Here is what axis says about the hull
"Thanks for your interest in AXIS. There are a few new things for 2011. A ski pylon is optional, better fitting cover, new cruise control programming, larger snap out carpet, better access to storage areas in bow and a few others. One of the big differences is the engines. After 12/31/10 no one will be able to order the AXIS without catalytic converters on the engine. They have been pretty much std. equipment on Wakesetters since 07, but we have been resistant to put them on the Axis and Malibu Rides due to price. The cats on the motors will increase the cost by about $1500. So, apples to apples a fall/winter boat will be about $1500 cheaper than a late winter spring boat. No difference in horsepower, but cleaner emissions and a little better fuel economy with the cat motor. If you want to save $1500 then order before 12/31!

All the Malibu exterior colors are available on the Axis line for 2011.

The A20 is pretty simple. It is an Axis-ized Malibu VTX Wakesetter. The hull is similar if not identical to the VTX and it is mated to the Axis deck. A scaled down version of the A22. All the same features are there with just 100lbs less factory ballast than the A22."


I think whoever told you that might be selling you a little BS. The A22 hull being a mix of the VLX and LSV makes since due to it's size, but the A20 is the VTX wake hull, not much you can do to make that hull better. Already throws a great wake for both wakeboaridng and surfing

Last edited by cjh1669; 03-21-2011 at 10:00 AM.
Old     (elc)      Join Date: Jan 2008       03-21-2011, 10:11 AM Reply   
I met Bishop over the weekend... Really cool guy and represents Axis well.
Old     (silvermustang35)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-21-2011, 10:23 AM Reply   
Of course Axis can't give out out all its secrets of development and design, but I can tell you that they changes they made extend the length of the wakeboarding sweet spot and in turn that created a bigger transition. Great wake created by both the A20 and A22.
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-21-2011, 10:25 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by silvermustang35 View Post
Of course Axis can't give out out all its secrets of development and design, but I can tell you that they changes they made extend the length of the wakeboarding sweet spot and in turn that created a bigger transition. Great wake created by both the A20 and A22.
Like I said, don't buy it on the A20. A22 makes sense the A20 doesn't. Who would they be hiding their secrets from, Malibu, the company that makes the boats....

Last edited by cjh1669; 03-21-2011 at 10:27 AM.
Old     (silvermustang35)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-21-2011, 10:38 AM Reply   
When designing each boat, new molds had to be made. They had already done this with the A22....so wouldn't it make sense to work the tweaks into the new A20 mold to make it just as good as the A22 for surfing, boarding? If the bow wasn't re-designed (pickle-fork), then yeah that would make sense to use the vtx exactly. New molds allowed for innovations and the ability to streamline and find the sweetspot for riding and make that into the mold.
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-21-2011, 10:43 AM Reply   
The only new mold they need is the deck, pickle forks don't effect the hull. So where is the new sweet spot for riding compared to the sweet spot on the VTX? Really that wake transition, in the pic, looks exactly the same as the VTX.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-21-2011, 11:04 AM Reply   
I can tell you that the hull molds for the A20 are new molds.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-21-2011, 11:06 AM Reply   
I don't know what changed. I don't care.
Old     (silvermustang35)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-21-2011, 4:28 PM Reply   
Everything under the rub rail is hull mold, everything above the rub rail is deck mold. These were both new molds and its able to be seen by its characteristics of the pickle features under the rub rail and for the docking lights area too. I'm not trying to fight with you about this Chris, just trying to state its a new mold completely.
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Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-21-2011, 5:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by silvermustang35 View Post
Everything under the rub rail is hull mold, everything above the rub rail is deck mold. These were both new molds and its able to be seen by its characteristics of the pickle features under the rub rail and for the docking lights area too. I'm not trying to fight with you about this Chris, just trying to state its a new mold completely.
I'm sitting looking at my hull on my vtx right now, and the only difference is where the is right around the front 1/5th of the boat where it comes up more drasticlly to meet the pickle fork, whihc would have to be different, all the rest is exactly the same. THat part of the boat is out of the water at speed.
I'm not trying to argue either, it's just one of those things that doesn't make sense, and most of the time when it doesn't make sense it's not true. The VTX is probably the best 20ft hull on the market, why change it? Also what economic sense does it make for malibu to throw money at a hull that will actually be sold for significantly less, when they already have an award winning hull in the VTX?
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Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-21-2011, 7:36 PM Reply   
Good god.

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