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Old     (xistential)      Join Date: Jul 2007       02-04-2010, 12:06 PM Reply   
Should the CIA shoulder all the blame for this?
Old     (zo1)      Join Date: Aug 2002       02-04-2010, 12:12 PM Reply   
Or should the CIA shoulder none of the blame? How are they responsible when they gave the opinion to not shoot and were not even in US air space?
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       02-04-2010, 12:28 PM Reply   
Blame for the coverup? Sure. Doesn't sound like there is any real culpability in the incident.
Old     (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       02-04-2010, 12:30 PM Reply   
Amazing when they're talking about something as serious as shooting down a plane and they are making gun sounds with their mouth to communicate. That's pretty weak policy if you ask me. I hope that's not standard operating procedure.
Old     (baldboarder)      Join Date: Aug 2002       02-07-2010, 12:25 PM Reply   
Bush! Bush is always to blame!
Old     (stepintoliquid)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-07-2010, 2:25 PM Reply   
Not much to say about that. That was awful.
Old     (poser007)      Join Date: Nov 2004       02-07-2010, 3:49 PM Reply   
This is disturbing. I'm all for whacking drug traffickers but to shoot down a plane when they had 0 intel about the people on board or flight plan etc.. is ridiculous. It is very scary when you have a group of people who can make life or death decisions when not even 50% positive what they are shooting at is what they think it is.
Old     (magellan)      Join Date: Feb 2003       02-07-2010, 5:43 PM Reply   
I would say the family is to blame for flying in an area and not knowing what the correct procedure was.
Old     (three6ty)      Join Date: Feb 2004       02-07-2010, 8:10 PM Reply   
Thats ht epilots fault not the Family's.
If you are flying in Peru I would hope you could speak Spanish so they can communicate with other planes and respond. If the pilot spoke spanish he would have heard the warning to change course. Also he should be on a frequency that can be communicated on. This could have easily been avoided, 100% pilot's fault.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       02-07-2010, 8:34 PM Reply   
^^^ Agreed 100%^^^^
It was my understanding that in the event you were let's say flying in a area that you shouldn’t be and you were intercepted by government planes, and in the event they could not communicate with you on the radio they would pull up beside you and there is a procedure where you can communicate with other planes by rocking your wing's ect. At one point in the video it looks like the government plane pulls up beside the family plane. That’s when the family plane contacts the tower. I think at this point it to late.
Old     (magellan)      Join Date: Feb 2003       02-08-2010, 7:48 AM Reply   
Sorry, yes, the pilot is to blame, not the family. Luckily, they are Christians so God must have wanted them dead.
Old     (pnichols)      Join Date: Jan 2007       02-08-2010, 11:03 AM Reply   
Old     (mike_gilbert)      Join Date: Sep 2004       02-08-2010, 11:47 AM Reply   
Classy, what if that was your wife and kid shot?
Old    wakeridinrob            02-08-2010, 4:16 PM Reply   
Pilot error. simple as that.
Old     (misteve)      Join Date: Aug 2007       02-08-2010, 4:40 PM Reply   
low blow....
Old     (xistential)      Join Date: Jul 2007       02-09-2010, 9:36 AM Reply   
There is another video available of this where there is a commentary of what we are watching and hearing.

The cia could have got in closer to the plane and they would have seen that it was registered to a church. They didn't want to get in that close and blow their cover so they hung back.
My problem is that the cia operatives never,at any time, seemed comfortable, so they should have waited. It's not like it was a kamikaze that had to be shot down at any cost.They could have even flanked them. Even if it was a drug plane what could the smugglers have done? Opened fire??

Those cia guys must have been sick to the stomach afterward. I can just imagine. "I knew it,I knew it,I told you"
Too late unfortunately.

And if it was all "legit" why try cover it up?
Old     (bstroop)      Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Athens, Alabama       02-09-2010, 10:00 AM Reply   
What does knowing the registration have to do with anything? One of the twin towers aircraft was registered to American Airlines. Would that have stopped anyone from shooting it down if they had the chance?
Old     (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       02-09-2010, 10:11 AM Reply   
Chris, I think if you listen to the audio, they were concerned about being identified and if it were a smugglers plane they were very near the border of Brazil where the CIA could not follow.

Crappy situation. The CIA could have been more forceful in their protests. There is one sentence where the CIA says "Do not authorize Phase 3" and the military guy says "Phase 3?" and then they go to Phase 3. Lost in translation mess.
Old     (mammoth)      Join Date: Apr 2005       02-09-2010, 11:00 AM Reply   
Chris - You're aware that it wasn't a CIA plane that did the shooting right? The CIA was very clearly expressing that they weren't convinced, but the Peruvians took down the plane anyway. I only ask because you imply that they should have waited...which is exactly what they were trying to get the Peruvians to do.
Old     (brettw)      Join Date: Jul 2007       02-09-2010, 11:01 AM Reply   
In hindsight, the CIA guys obviously could have tried to do more to prevent the shooting. They are not at fault, though. The Peruvians are.

It also sounds like maybe the pilot didn't file a flight plan, which in hindsight and if true, he obviously should have.
Old     (xistential)      Join Date: Jul 2007       02-09-2010, 12:03 PM Reply   
Yeah, I agree with most everything being said. The cia knew that if they got in close they plane could/would get away.They even said as much.

And Brian - knowing that the plane was registered to the church? A simple phone call on the ground...........

I just think the cia guys should have maybe been more forceful.If they had absolutely insisted they would have been completely blameless even if the Peruvians ignored them.The Peruvians were probably trigger happy and the communication was a bit messy as well.

As Dave said using "bada, bada,bada" to simulate shooting??
Old     (bstroop)      Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Athens, Alabama       02-09-2010, 1:14 PM Reply   
ring you have a plane registered to your church? Yes......Can you describe who's in it right now?.......


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