'08 VTX vs. '09 B52V TWB

Thanks for participating in my '07 VTX vs. '07 X-1 comparison. I've moved on from the X-1 due to the narrow beam.

Here's another comparison I'm looking at... this time brand new boats.

'08 Malibu Wakesetter VTX

vs.

'09 MB B52V Team Wide Body


Both boats are brand new. Assume price is the same (or very close) so we don't get hung up on that variable.

Here is why I struggle with this one...

The Malibu is, well a Malibu! Gorgeous lines, slick tower, and plush interior. Also, it seems like a smarter buy since resale might be better 5 or 10 years down the road.

The MB wins in interior space: despite being only 1' longer, it holds 16 people vs. 10 in the VTX. Also, it has 1,800lbs pure vert ballast vs. 900lbs. with pumps in VTX.

Both fit in my garage equally well, so no issue there.

Which would you pick?

(Message edited by ixfe on January 31, 2009)

i'd go with the malibu....resale as u mentioned is important. the wedge will make up for the difference in ballast in my opinion and as far as the seating is concerned, how is it that 1 xtra foot can accomodate 6 xtra people? could MB have pulled something over on the USCG to get that rating? even if they did it seems that the reality is that the seating capacity would be much closer regardless of what any manufacturer of governing body says they can accomodate, right? I'm sure that the MB is a fine boat, but IMO it wouldn't even be a question. Malibu all the way. Yes, I'm biased just like everyone else on this board.

what all options are on the boats. I would say go with the mb

What boat did YOU like best. Which boat felt best for your needs.

Edit to say that the B52V TW is a new boat so you won't find too many people on WW that has ridden both that and the VTX. The decision really should be based on what YOU like, not what people on any forum like... as I'm sure you are aware.


I have an association with MB so I won't give my opinion on the boat (cough cough, the B52V TW is the boat I hope to have in the spring).

(Message edited by wakereviews on January 31, 2009)

Tough question not many people have been behind both of these boats. Minter, Dan...

You must have expanded your price-range a little bit! Agreed with Onlyinboards, you gotta figure out what works for you... because you know what opinions are like. That being said, I have one. And make sure you really take a serious look at the B52 Widebody. The boat is just... awesome. 1800 lbs of ballast in less than 60 seconds. Fits in a 21' garage and under a 7' door. The fit and finish is as good as they get. I have no affilations, I just think it is by far the coolest new boat out this year.... and if I was buying a boat, it would be at the top of my short list. Good luck...

^^^^ Both are well equipped, but neither has much of a stereo (in both cases, I'd have to spend my own money there). Also no racks.

Is there really an option that would make you lean one way or the other?

cruise control? one option wouldnt make me lean but lots could

the ballast system is just awesome. I had the quick fill gravity fed system on my 08 Tomcat and I can't imagine going back to a pump system.

Zero off is standard on the 09 MBs (i'm pretty sure)

^^^^ Yep, MB has Zero Off. Malibu has Precision Pro.

MB, I don't know where long term value has anything to do with it except maybe on the east coast where there is less MB exposure. MB as far as I know, has never had any issues holding value compared with Malibu.
One of the reasons the boat is rated for 16 is width and mostly depth. the thing is 5 feet from the top of the transome to the bottom of the prop. Thats a lot of boat.

Regardless if the CG says you can fit 16 I would like to see that. I looked at the boat at the show and it is very big for a 21' boat but there is no way you could have more than 12 people in that boat with their own seat cushion to sit on.

MB
I personally have never had luck with Malibu, neither have my friends/family except my uncle.. he has had a 90' Sunsetter that has lasted, the others....nope.

IMO MB hands down,
also where I live people who wakeboard/ski a lot have nautique/mc and warriors have malibu... most likely just a dealer location thing but it gives me a bad taste for malibu

Never ridden the MB, I'm in florida and there aren't many of them over here. But I rode the VTX at the wakeboard camp for a week and loved it.

Who doesn't have a malibu?

Get the MB, you will never regret it, I never have looked back. MB is on another level.

Yes I am extremely bias.

I have a B-52 TWB. I will give anyone that lives in the mid-atlantic region a ride. Bring a VTX or VLX if you have one, we can compare.

id got with the mb.... the ballast system sounds sweet and the interior looks awesome... but its all up to you in the end.

off topic: what do you mean you've had no luck with malibu nick?

No offense to anyone that owns an MB I'm sure they are great boats but they are not in the same league as Malibu as far as fit and finish goes, that's apparent as soon as you step foot in one. Other than that I'm sure they're comparable boats performance wise.
Alan saying "who doesn't have a malibu" as a reason to get the MB had me rolling, must be a great sales tactic. There is a reason Malibu sells more boats.

Yes I own a malibu but I looked hard at the MB. I loved the B52V3 until I sat in a malibu afterwards.

(Message edited by 05mobiuslsv on February 01, 2009)

different strokes for different folks... i had a VLX and liked the MB much better. Which is why he really needs to decide for himself.

I'm sure having some sort of sponsorship from them doesn't hurt...

and I'm sure owners goggles doesn't either.

Un-bias me, nautique man. MB 110%

I have an MBV23 simply because I like them more than most other boats. The quality of build is at least comparable to other "top" brands imo but, the storage/stock ballast isn't. I just don't like the idea of aftermarket plumbing or exposed sacks. I'd rather have storage and interior space, hence the MB.

I've been in and behind the 21' widebody. I believe the 16 capacity is possible but it would be very crowded. 8 would be the limit before it felt crowded imo, which is 2 more than what typically feels pleasant on other 21' boats loaded with fatsacks and extras.

Stock wake of the widebody is exceptional. ballast system is too. Price is probably better too.

nu_bu, could you please define 'fit and finish'? I'd like to know, line by line, what you find 'not in the same league' as far as MB vs. Malibu.

Yes, I own an MB, and yes, I'm probably a but biased, but for my benefit (and the OP's), I'd like to know exactly what you include in the 'fit and finish' statement.

Come on Dan I don't need to explain it because you already know, I'm talking about creature comforts. It's like the difference between a cadillac and a chevy. If you don't cruise down to the Bu dealer and you'll see first hand. That's what I did and that's how I made my decision. You're obviously all butthurt from my comment, please see the first sentence of my first post that says "no offense" and take it to heart.

(Message edited by 05mobiuslsv on February 02, 2009)

I've only owned MC's but my vote goes for the MB.

nu_bu, I think you're being a little harsh. A Malibu is much better then a Chevy...

^^^Good one .

I say stay away from the MB. I am told an MB makes you go bald and robs you of your stoke.

Malibu is full of "creature comforts" that are completely un-needed...
here are some of the sweet things you MUST have with a malibu:
Silent Rider mufflers
Issotta Steering Wheel
Issotta Throttle Knob
Shrinkable Shipping Cover
Flip Up Bolster Driver's Seat
Halogen Docking Lights (Stainless Steel)
Locking glove box
Malibu Sound Suppression Technology (MSST) -- What?
Pop-up bow light
Rubrail (Stainless rubrail w/through holes)--- YOU MEAN I GET A RUBRAIL! WOOO
Ski tow bar/rear grab handle
Stainless Steel Cup Holders (qty based on model) - thanks malibu!
... just a few more sweet ones.
Water Cooled Shaft Seal
Standard Classic - oh, this is a good one
Depth Finder Module - jump in kids, the module is reading 15 ft!
Custom sport Shroud
Sony Digital Stereo Lounge Remote Control
Driver's Seat Heater
Sport Seating Package - Dual Buckets - just like my chevy
Wedge (complete) Polished (MANUAL)- cool, a plow
CS Boat Cover w/Illusion X Tower Cutouts Black Only

such sweet extras.

C'mon Nick, you can't claim to be unbiased in this, you already said:

"also where I live people who wakeboard/ski a lot have nautique/mc and warriors have malibu... most likely just a dealer location thing but it gives me a bad taste for malibu"

That would be bias.

Both boats are going to do exactly what you need. If you don't get a good enough feeling to pick one over the other, I'd keep on looking for something that gets your blood pumping.

Everything that Nick listed is standard on an MB except for;

Halogen Docking lights
Standard Classic (huh)
Seat heater
Sport Seating package (I am sure MB would do it if you asked)
Wedge (1800 lbs of ballast instead)

I would go MB. I have never rode behind the MB but have rode behind a VTX and didn't like it. The wedge does not work near as well on the shorter boat, even with the bow ballast, if you have the wedge down and the other tanks full, the boat will bounce in the nose. We had to add about 500lbs additional weight to the nose to fix this problem when we rode. This will obviously cut into your seating. I don't know much about the Widebody, but I sure didn't like the VTX near as much as I like the VLX. If you can spring the difference for a VLX, well then the story would change.

Nick hates Malibu it's a well known fact. Just read back at any post he's ever had on Bu's. It's cool Nick what else you got, you've obviously got way more time and energy to devote to this subject than I?

(Message edited by 05mobiuslsv on February 02, 2009)

I don't hate malibu's.... they are a well built boat with a good name behind it... with that said they are extremely overpriced. Don't get me wrong, MC is crazy expensive too but when did malibu start jacking up prices.... I remember years ago a wakesetter was an awesome boat that was far cheaper than a SAN210 or X-star... then all of a sudden they're charging the same or more for those same boats... MC is high, Bu is high, CC (bias) has stayed at a more reasonable price over the years...

I just have never been in 1 malibu that has amazed me with the wake, or any part of it, and I've been in quite a few. It always seems like the owners of the Bu's have this thing about them where their boat is God's gift to wakeboarding because it has stock ballast and a reverse tower... you are proving my point.

--- Okay, forget what I have said before... to answer your question - MB.


I do have a lot of time, class is boring as ••••••••• attendance points are attendance points.

MAybe CC has similar price points where you are, but, where I am the prices are quite a bit different. I own a VTX so I am biased a little. I really wanted a 210 for the cross over capability and the price diff between the 07 VTX and 07 Nautique was huge! I really liked both boats, if the prices were the same I may have bought the Nautique. Not trying to fan the flames already running here. As for the original question, I would agree with several others, whichever boat appeals to you more is the right boat. Just get on the water and have fun with what ever you own!!!

A CC is more expensive than a BU what are you smoking? You really want to start talking about overpriced, really?

Nice ASSumption Nick. I don't think my boat is god's gift to anything. It's my first malibu and it's been great. Looked at everything until I bought this. Could have a different brand next time who knows I'm not loyal to any of them.

I haven't really priced a malibu this year 08/09 but I have seen on more than one occasion 08 SAN230TE - NEW <60k.

can you really get an 08 LSV with trailer etc etc etc for under 60k?

Right now a left over 08' 23lsv could probably be had for that or close to it.

ixfe you really need to demo each boat and figure this one out. Malibu has stuff that people don't like and do like...same goes for MB.

Nick malibu's do put out a nice wake, granted they do take more weight than your CC, but most wakeboats do.

I guess the last I saw was some boats a local Bu dealer had, they were all LOADED but were coming in and 80k+ .... I was shocked.

and true I have never been in a sacked out Bu... just stock + wedge and didn't really fit the way I ride... Old210 straight up and down has spoiled me.

But 60K for a new LSV isn't as bad as I thought.

Nick a bu with stock ballast and wedge is good, but not great. The wake is probably comparable to your boat and stock ballast. In 10 years your knees won't like the old 210 wake.

80K is MSRP...

I posted in your other comparison and I'll say it again. I would go with the Bu. It is a sick boat. Not only do you get the build quality, but you will get the resale value later in its life. I've never owned either, but have been in a bunch of each manufacturer, and don't think that the MB can compare in ANY way. Howver, it is YOUR decision that matters, go with the boat that you like most.

And for anyone who says that the Wedge(assuming that the boat has a Power Wedge) doesn't work with a shorter boat....doesn't have a clue as to what they are talking about.

Go with the Malibu!!!!

Skip both go CC 210

Also the first thing you should do is avoid advice from anyone on here who claims to be unbiased...no one is unbiased. Everyone has their favorite board, bindings, rope, & boat.

P.S. That is my unbiased opinion

lol good one erik

Unless the boat is missing the front ballast tank the VTX has 1,250 lbs. of ballast.

This thread has really gotten interesting. That's great! I love the passion! Believe it or not, this exchange helps the sort through my thoughts.

Here's the deal. I've been nervous to post specifics for some reason. But here goes:

MALIBU: I can buy a brand new leftover '08 VTX for $42.5K. It has Wake hull, Monsoon, Illusion X, floating wedge. It does NOT have bow ballast, heater, racks, or stereo of any kind. I would probably add heater and racks and call it a day. It's getting very uncomfortable at this point, but worth it considering the VTX fits the garage nicely and used '07 costs the same.

MB: This boat is definitely a step up from the VTX in both size, features, and price. The reason I told you to assume same price is that I didn't want price to influence people's comparison of the boats. I understand that if I buy the MB, I'm paying more.

I haven't approached the MB dealer yet. I wanted to get some opinions to see if it was even worth my and his time. On the other hand the VTX deal is on the table and ready to sign (there are several colors to choose from same options listed above).

Make sense? I guess it need to go test drive, although I'm a rookie so I don't think the test drive will matter. I don't really know what to look for. I know I will love BOTH.

If you get the VTX without the bow ballast, you will be putting sacs up there if you are using the wedge. That will cut into your room further. That may not be a big deal for you, just thought I would throw that out there.

^^^ I am not too worried about the bow tank for a few reasons:

1) The CFO doesn't like play pen bows. She worries about the little ones up there and wants them sitting with both feet down in a traditional bow.

2) Our family is not really at the level where it will matter. To be honest, I wonder how much we'll use the 3 tanks that are in the boat. The idea is to buy a boat we'll grow into. But the lack of bow ballast is not a concern.

3) If I ever decide we need the weight, can't I just put a fat sack on the floor and cover it with the bow cushion? At least that way I have the option of having weight with play pen bow or no weight with regular walk thru bow.

4) Or, why not just hide 350lbs of lead under the bow seats? The downside is that it's not easy to remove while on the water. But, can you think of a scenario where you wouldn't want that weight up there?

The problem with the bow tank is that you are stuck with it whether you want the weight or not.

I can't remember a boat I have been in that doesn't need extra bow ballast...including an MB.

^^^^ Nick - Point me to a new leftover '08 SAN210 for $42k. I will gladly add it to the running.

Something tells me it doesn't exist.

Take a test spin in both boats. You will be able to tell a big difference in the way the boats are built, does not matter that you are a beginner.

Ixfe, my wife had the same concerns with the play pen bows when we bought our boats. As far as kids in the front go, if they aren't sitting on their butts the boat doesn't move. It is surprising how quick they all learn that trick. My kids even tell any friends that come in the boat that they need to sit on their bums as well. We have no bow tank in the VTX and usually substitute a friend who want the sun for a bow sack. The playpen cushion in the VTX does come out and we have put a tube sack underneath it as well. Also doubles for extra crap storage!!! Like many have said before, buy the one you like the most, you won't be disappointed either way. One thing to mention would be talking to owners of both brands and find out how happy they are with their local dealership for service and after sales support. That was probably the easiest decision for us.

I really like the VTX, however it will not throw an enormous wake like the MB. I like the VTX because it is perfect crossover boat; without ballast it can work very well for skiers as the wake is tiny at 30+ mph as well as provide a great wake for beginners that might be frightened by the larger full ballast wakes of the VLX or MB. However, the VTX once loaded with ballast and wedge can offer a very formidable wake, although it will still not reach the size of the MB or VLX (even though it has the same ballast capacity, but it gets close). I realy like the visibility driving within the VTX I feel like a sit a bit higher in the boat and it has a sport car style feel, very agile and turns on a dime with an exceptional hull shot. If you had the bow ballast in the VTX it would allow you more versatility for adjusting the pitch of the wake, however I understand this is not an option with the boat you are looking at. The lack of bow ballast would likely create a wake with more peak to it. The VTX I have ridden behind did not have bow ballast either, the wake was similar to a Super Air with only rear ballast filled. Ultimately, it all depends on what you intend to use the boat for; if it is solely wakeboarding w/ adults and big wakes is your flavor then the MB or VLX is your boat. If you are looking for more of a family boat for kids/ adults, the VTX will fit your niche perfectly. You will not be disappointed with the VTX if this is the route you choose. Good luck with your boat purchase and please take a test drive; if it is too cold to slip into the water then at least drive the boats and observe the wakes at various speeds to make a determination of their differences, good or bad.

Test drives tomorrow in all three boats:

VTX
X-1
TWB

Stay tuned...

All at the same time??? That is awesome. Talk about a buyer's market.

Can't wait to hear the results.

Taking the day off? Yes, full report on all 3 boats.

dont forget about pictures

ixfe, if you can, give us the lowdown tonight. If not, at least give us a sniff and hit it in the morning

Okay... long day. I spent two hours in the MB and two hours in the VTX. I did not drive the X-1. I would have posted earlier, but I've spent hours processing the pics.

I will give my comments, then follow with pics in subsequent posts. Let's get it on!


MB B52 TWB

INTRO: Prior to today, I had only seen this boat at the show. In the real world, it was every bit as stunning. This is the exact one I saw at the show. I've always thought that white boats are boring... not this one! When I walked up to the dealer this morning and saw it ready to go, I almost melted with excitement. It even has a white, powedercoated tower!

SIZE: This boat feels soooo much bigger than it actually is. Some boats make the cockpit big by shrinking the bow (e.g. Calabria). This boat has both a HUGE cockpit and a HUGE bow. And it's only a 21' 0" foot boat. This was done by shrinking the sun pad. I think this is a good trade off. The 100" beam is well used... narrow gunnels and the top deck comes straight up from the rub rail so almost all of that wide beam is usable on the inside. This boat is bigger inside that the B52 23' boat. It also very tall. You sit high above of the water, and it feels deep inside.

INTERIOR: The fit an finish is superb. I really like the simple, clean design... not near as fussy looking as a Malibu or Supra with all their extra trim pieces and swooping lines. Stainless is used tastefully throughout (dash, speaker grills, cup holder, etc.). This interior is very understated, yet the materials used are all very thick and heavy. It's just a very simple, elegant design.

FEATURES: The list of standard features is amazing: Zero Off, Two batteries on a switch, Clarion marine head unit with four cabin speakers, sub, and two amps... there is enough power to run tower speakers w/out more amps. Also heater, tower mounted mirror, LED lights everywhere inside the boat, tandem axle trailer with integrated straps, brakes, LED brake lights, and fully boxed rails. The tower raises and lowers easily with one person. And how could I forget PCM 343hp motor... that's the base engine. This is a lot more than you get standard on a Bu.

DRIVE: What can I say, it drives great... as expected. Lots of power. It launches and plains quickly. The throttle is drive-by-wire. Zero Off is a very slick system... easy to use and GPS.

WAKE: I am a bit of rookie, but it looked HUGE. I have pics to prove it. It will take me years to grow into that wake.

FAVORITES: I like a lot about this boat, but my favorite features are the cut out transom step/seat and the rear facing seat back just behind the drivers seat. These make the boat feel special as not many v-drives have this and those that do are several feet longer or lots more money.

DISLIKES: About the only thing I can find wrong is that I don't like how the rear locker doors do not have a hydrolic shock to keep them from slamming closed. This is because those doors are hinged to the engine cover. Still it's only a matter of time before somebody's fingers get slammed in there.







(Message edited by ixfe on February 04, 2009)

(Message edited by ixfe on February 04, 2009)

Here are some more pics of the MB:

A few more shots of the MB:

Malibu Wakesetter VTX

INTRO: I walked up to this boat just moments after leaving the MB. Like all Malibus, it's a great looking boat. This particular boat is not one of the new leftovers I've been contemplating (those are out of state). This is a local used '07 with Wake hull and 65 hours. Unlike the leftovers, this one has bow ballast.

SIZE: Everybody says this boat is BIG for a 20' boat. That may be so, but it felt small after being in the MB... both the cockpit and the bow. This boat is a foot shorter, but felt like 3' shorter. Also, the 98" beam is not as well used... the VTX felt more than just 2" narrower. With that said, It would be fine for my young family. It feels deep inside, but closer to the water, if that makes sense.

INTERIOR: You've all been in a Bu, so you know what they are like... soft, deep seats. Lots of chrome, etc. The look is much busier than the MB. I did not like the LED display in the dash. I kept pushing buttons trying to figure out how to find the depth meter, but nothing happened. I couldn't figure it out. I'm sure I'd get the hang of it, but I don't like how you can only see one thing at a time on that screen. When I did find depth, that's all I got. What if I want to monitor more than one thing at a time... more pushing buttons that don't like me.

FEATURES: This particular boat has Monsoon, Star Gazer, bow ballast, heater, and basic factory stereo. But no dual batteries, no amps, no sub, tower mirror, etc.

DRIVE: This is where the VTX shines. It drives GREAT! Very quick and responsive. I think it held a very slight edge here over the MB... it's a smaller boat so that might be expected. It also plains almost immediately.

WAKE: Looked very nice, and for sure plenty for me and my young crew. But for you hard core folks, it was not as big as the MB, even with all tanks full and wedge down. Even a newbie like me could see that. Also, I didn't think the wake at 32mph was all that flat, but this did have the Wake hull, not Cut Diamond.

FAVORITES: Quick acceleration and tight handling.

DISLIKES: Ballast took a long time to fill, but I started the day with Pure Vert, so I had been spoiled. Also, don't flame me, but the wedge is a pain. It feels like just one more thing to remember and fuss with.

A couple more of the VTX:

Now let's compare the wakes.

Each picture has a tag indicating the speed, ballast, etc.

Also, I have mixed B52 TWB and VTX pics together so it's easier to compare. Each set of pics will have one from each boat (MB listed first).

Finally, I won't make comments. That's for you guys!

Slalom Ski Wake

Wakeboard Wake - No Ballast/Wedge

Wakeboard Wake - Full Ballast/Wedge
This is where the MB comes to life!

Surf Wake

PARTING THOUGHTS:

As I look closely at the wake pics, I realize it's hard to tell a big difference (at least for me it's hard). In person, the MB sure seemed bigger. It doesn't really matter as wake size is the least of my concerns. We are rookies so either boat will be fine in this regard. But I thought you all might find it interesting.

I think I spent more time on the write up than I did in the boats.

I started the day leaning Malibu. I ended the day leaning MB.

The final decision will come down to money (doesn't it always?). Despite my wish that they'd be the same price, they are NOT. The MB is quite a bit more money. So I have a decision to make.

Stay tuned.

Awesome review. I hope you can get the MB for the price you have in mind, it would be the deal of the century at that price.

How did the boats compare when driven back over its own wakes, i.e. a double up?

Great review. The Malibu looks sharp. The MB looks functional. My opinion/vote goes for the MB and its great wake.

IXFE,
At the end of the day it's whatever boat makes you happy. I personally like the Malibu. I've never been in an MB and b/c I live on the east coast may never have the opportunity. Buy what you can afford and what fits your needs the best. You will have lots of good family time in either ride.

Steve, just an FYI...it depends on what portion of the east coast you live on. There are many MBs in the MD/VA/DC/NC area and, last I checked, we were part of the east coast...

Wow, that was a very detailed review. Thanks for the pics. Let us know what you decide (you know which way I'd lean)

I've never been in a MB, but imo they hit a home run with this new wide body. Love it.

Great review. The surf wake on the VTX looks better and the wakeboard wake seems to be a little cleaner.

Go with the boat that makes you the happiest. If I were you and I was going to get the MB I would tell them to swap out that black trailer for a white one. That would look so much cleaner on a white trailer.

Awesome review! You will be happy with either boat I'm sure. My opinion/vote goes for the MB.

Excellent job comparing the boats. Given the quality of your review, you will definitely make the right decision for you and your family. Have fun in your new boat.

Nice review and thanks for the pics. Your dealer is a big factor in it...

Recognized the inside of the shop as AWS in Portland. Stand up guys all around from boat sales to service to the guys in their shop and at Koppert Lake, cannot recommend them highly enough. Who have you been working with?

Cannot speak about the bu guys in Portland, no experience with them.

But whichever you decide, do your dealer a favor and don't post on here with what you paid... just know whichever you get it was for a smokin' deal...

Good luck.

Never been in either boat, but the pure vert ballast alone would steer me towards the MB. Also, the statement that comparing the MB to a Malibu is like comparing a chevy to a caddy is a complete joke. The MB that I have been in was high quality throughout. Now, I've only been in the malibu at the boat show. I don't think the interior was nicer per se than was the malibu, but it is at least comparable.

Nice review now go demo a Nautique 210.

Nice post SS never been in either boat but the comparison was a complete joke. Was your post a joke? Had to be.