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Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       07-08-2015, 7:34 AM Reply   
Is there any moderation even here?

LanceM
Old     (biggator)      Join Date: Jul 2010       07-08-2015, 8:12 AM Reply   
Apparently 4chan and Wakeworld merged sometime in the last year.
Old     (gene3x)      Join Date: Apr 2005       07-08-2015, 8:28 AM Reply   
Am I subscribing right when all the drama has ended?
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013       07-08-2015, 9:56 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
Yea this is like heaven compared to some car forums (see vwvortex and NASIOC for maximum brutality)
Don't forget Pirate4x4. I think that one tops any I've been on including vortex.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       07-08-2015, 9:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by trayson View Post
Don't forget Pirate4x4. I think that one tops any I've been on including vortex.
Pirate has tamed down quite a bit, but it used to be brutal. If you didn't have 20K and 200 hours of work in your rig, you better stay quiet. It IS however, the undisputed best source of fabrication and modification tips for those building rigs, so it has it moments.
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013       07-08-2015, 10:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd1 View Post
Pirate has tamed down quite a bit, but it used to be brutal. If you didn't have 20K and 200 hours of work in your rig, you better stay quiet. It IS however, the undisputed best source of fabrication and modification tips for those building rigs, so it has it moments.
Yep. That's how I remember it. I have a pretty darn built rig by anyone's standards--but since everything's bolt-on, it's nothing regardless of the fact that I've easily got $30k of mods into mine... Now, if I could just sell the damn thing for anything $10k or more, I could pay down on my boat loan!!!
Old     (cla17)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-08-2015, 11:56 AM Reply   
Mild Update: JJ's boat is back at the shop and we have forwarded the needed file to re-set the VesselView7 system. A new ballast gate valve has been received by the shop as well. It seems that the valve had some water in it and froze at some point and broke. And I'm not sure on any Bimini parts and such but we are happy to help with any of that.

To humbly reiterate to the board though; Epic and TAL have never said we were not going to help resolve any shipping damage or missing parts. I'm happy to see some progress on the repairs and we hope that everything will be corrected soon so JJ can enjoy this boat with his family for the rest of the summer. I appreciate the spirited conversation all around and I certainly understand that our boats aren't for everyone but we have a hundred VERY dedicated people striving to make quality boats for those who do like what we have to offer. Epic will continue to innovate and hopefully win some more support here along the way.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-08-2015, 12:02 PM Reply   
Great to hear Chris! Thanks for taking the time to update the thread. While it is unfortunate that the boat is still out of commission, I am encouraged to know that you all are still trying to make this right.
Old     (jws2)      Join Date: Apr 2015       07-08-2015, 12:19 PM Reply   
^^^^ I second that!
Old     (Khyber)      Join Date: Mar 2013       07-08-2015, 1:00 PM Reply   
Awaiting JJ's retort as more drama will continue.......Perhaps, something about rocks in the lake
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-08-2015, 1:03 PM Reply   


Hitting rock bottom?
Old     (ottog1979)      Join Date: Apr 2007       07-08-2015, 1:20 PM Reply   
Like Darren Y., my early gut check seems to be accurate. Chris Anthony's latest post continues to support that.
Old     (BaadLS1)      Join Date: Dec 2013       07-08-2015, 1:28 PM Reply   
Off topic, Andy, you have any inside info on San Vicente reopening? It is up 28th over minimum launch. Hoping they open it before November!
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       07-08-2015, 1:28 PM Reply   
Lance MOUNTAIN approves Chris A's message
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-08-2015, 1:35 PM Reply   
This thread turned out to be like the movie " gone girl " where you swear one person looks guilty the whole time and in the end turns out to be innocent"

I can't wait for Nicks movie
Old     (Cabledog)      Join Date: Dec 2013       07-08-2015, 1:38 PM Reply   
G that movie is crazy. To all WW, I recommend it if you haven't seen it.
Old     (Cabledog)      Join Date: Dec 2013       07-08-2015, 1:44 PM Reply   
Chris, appreciate the update. Glad to this is closer to a resolution.

Has this made you rethink your relationship with TAL? I don't expect full disclosure on WW but I do know that we use several subcontractors and vendors in our business. When they cause us problems especially with the final end user our decisions are typically swift and decisive. Cut out the cancer before it spreads... Sometimes it hurts but in the end it has always been the right decision speaking for our business.
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       07-08-2015, 1:45 PM Reply   
http://eastco.craigslist.org/bpo/5111611822.html
Old     (Cabledog)      Join Date: Dec 2013       07-08-2015, 1:53 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceM View Post
Was hoping it was TAL advertising a immaculate Mastercraft Cyclone..

also on the night boating + drinking thread.
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       07-08-2015, 2:11 PM Reply   
Yes that is a good sister/brother thread to this one...

LanceM
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       07-08-2015, 2:50 PM Reply   
View post on imgur.com
Old     (onlyinboards)      Join Date: Oct 2014       07-08-2015, 2:55 PM Reply   
Holy mother of all gifs... you win the internets today Nick.
Old     (Ewok01)      Join Date: Apr 2013       07-08-2015, 3:13 PM Reply   
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       07-08-2015, 3:18 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyinboards View Post
Holy mother of all gifs... you win the internets today Nick.
+1 Best GIF

Also good to see the actual progress being made is logical and the last post by JJ was severely lacking in the drama department due to Chatt taking him down a few notches.

Good deal.
Old     (lifetimewarranty)      Join Date: Oct 2008       07-08-2015, 3:28 PM Reply   
I'm only here to give props to Nick. Most excellent!
Old     (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       07-08-2015, 3:35 PM Reply   
Holy **** that .gif is out of control!!!!!

Welcome to the record books JJ!!
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-08-2015, 3:35 PM Reply   
Somebody imbed that damn gif. Good work Nick! ahahahahahahahahahaha
Old     (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       07-08-2015, 3:52 PM Reply   
Came across this guy this weekend. Had to snap a pic of course...
Attached Images
 
Old     (ottog1979)      Join Date: Apr 2007       07-08-2015, 4:52 PM Reply   
Clarke, PM sent.
Old     (DuckHuntin1)      Join Date: Jul 2013       07-08-2015, 8:10 PM Reply   
JJ, I still care.
Old     (MrPeepers)      Join Date: Aug 2011       07-09-2015, 7:14 AM Reply   
So, let me get this straight. Since JJ turned out to have a sketchy past, it no longer matters that he bought a "Brand New Full Warranty" boat from an authorized Epic dealer that was missing vital engine parts?
Old     (King12)      Join Date: Jul 2012       07-09-2015, 7:20 AM Reply   
Yes. Where you expecting more tolerance from this community?
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       07-09-2015, 7:22 AM Reply   
If you seriously have read the entire thread and that is the ONLY thing you have come up with Mr Pepper... Then, I guess so...

LanceM
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       07-09-2015, 8:28 AM Reply   
Quote:
Since JJ turned out to have a sketchy past, it no longer matters that he bought a "Brand New Full Warranty" boat from an authorized Epic dealer that was missing vital engine parts?
My biggest thing now is JJ was (maybe still is) a con-man with what appears to be little boating knowledge. Since he has provided ZERO proof of any of the damage, I get the gut feeling all these "problems" aren't really Epic's fault. I think its a sketchy dude who got got by a sketchy dealer.... and Epic is paying the price.

Now, if JJ was able to produce a nice timeline of the delivery and photos from that day showing damage, fine he has a point. A well documented string of events outlining the purchase, shipment, inspection of damage, and dealings to get fixes would really help. So far its just a ton of pointing fingers and claims of problems that seem totally unsubstantiated. All the damage seems to self inflicted (shipping) or due to him buying sight un-seen. Since we as outsiders have no real way of telling if the customer who was a prior con-man is actually telling a bunch of internet strangers the truth, I'm a bit skeptical. Also claims of "never signing anything" is super weird... like some scam in the works there too, that isn't how things work in this day and age..... Something stinks here, and I think JJ has a lot to do with it.

At this point as a 3rd party all I see is this:
Customer - Lots of complaints (no proof provided to us), sketchy past built on scamming people,
Dealer - Lots of complaints and seems to be doing business based on scamming people
Epic - Stuck in the middle because of a legal agreement with said ****ty dealership.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       07-09-2015, 8:34 AM Reply   
Yes it still matters, and he should be made whole.

Read the post above which perfectly sums it all up...
Old     (wiscxstar)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-09-2015, 9:01 AM Reply   
JJ's boat still needs to be taken care of as that is what EPIC should be required to do with a new boat sold from an authorized dealer, and I am still not impressed with Epic's response and action.

HOWEVER, selling shady airbags is a BS move, and I would have to believe there are still some of them in vehicles now (subjecting people to injury or death), so I don't feel bad for JJ any longer. That is just hands down a scumbag move.

What I got from this thread is that if you want to actually get what you think you are buying, don't buy from JJ and don't buy from EPIC.
Old     (ottog1979)      Join Date: Apr 2007       07-09-2015, 9:10 AM Reply   
I think Nick has it summed up pretty well.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-09-2015, 9:11 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiscxstar View Post
What I got from this thread is .... and don't buy from EPIC.
Totality unfair. Don't buy from TAL is spot on.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-09-2015, 9:38 AM Reply   
Wellllll, in fairness, I think the takeaway is that you need to be a little more on your toes if you're going to buy and Epic from a dealer you don't know. Apparently, Epic is not being all that selective as to who sells its boats.
Old     (ScottR)      Join Date: Aug 2011       07-09-2015, 9:54 AM Reply   
I bought two boats straight from Epic in back to back years brand new. I think they were the 2010 and 2011 years. Anyway, I will say this, I never dealt with Chris. I dealt with a sales rep (rymes with Bary) and a lady who I was told was plant manager . Although I have nothing really bad to say about her, HIM on the other hand "was" part of the issue with that company. My hope for them in the future is they employ good people who keep promises and customer service. I did like my Epic's when I had them. What I didn't know was how good "other" brands really were comparatively. Since switching to another boat (not hard to figure out what boat I have now) I have found customer service from them AWESOME! They want to help and so does the community that own them on other threads. I bought from a dealership in Alabama for my first one (Brand new in my profile pic) and loved dealing with them. (Shout out to Nelems Marine) and since bought a used 2013 boat. What I know is I have bought many times sight unseen on a lot of things, but as all have said....Karma sucks. I do think EPIC is stuck here, but I also think EPIC has proven they have issues within that company. I hope they get them resolved. I was their biggest supporter at one time. You can research some of my past posts over the years, but now I would never go back. This thread helps me relive my situations with them all over again. Again I never ever dealt with Chris and he seems like he is trying, so I hope things work out. But at the price point all the boat manufacturers are Epic wouldn't be on my list anymore at all. Sorry Chris.

Last edited by ScottR; 07-09-2015 at 9:57 AM.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       07-09-2015, 10:06 AM Reply   
My impression is JJ is a professional scammer (I think Chatt pretty much proved that) and JJ has made a mole hill into a mountain. IMO he got a deal on a boat that May or May not have had damage Like Nick says "we still have never seen One picture of this so called damage" Ask yourself why not? could it be that the damage is so small we would laugh him off the forum???? Does JJ not have a camera? or the Know how to post a photo? Well then how did he post all the pictures of the hundreds of fake air bags he sold on E-bay? Yes Something smells fishy. Sorry I know you shouldn't Judge a book by its cover but once I saw the legal documents of JJs criminal record it put everything in perspective for me.

NICK BEST GIF EVER
Old     (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-09-2015, 10:24 AM Reply   
In my opinion JJ doesn't hold a candle to LON, that guy was a douche to 'nth degree!! Ryan X Starvwas great too but he was a spoiled brat kid, LON was a man and still acted like he did. It was a sad day when he exited his thread.
Old     (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-09-2015, 10:24 AM Reply   
And yes Nick, great GIF
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       07-09-2015, 10:26 AM Reply   
I need to read up on this Lon guy... I missed all of this... Please point me in the right direction...

LanceM
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       07-09-2015, 10:31 AM Reply   
Quote:
I need to read up on this Lon guy... I missed all of this..
http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=780094
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-09-2015, 11:14 AM Reply   
Man I can't believe the LON thread was 5 years ago. Good lord.
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       07-09-2015, 11:15 AM Reply   
Ok... Our thread is better than the Lon thread, but it is easily a good number #2... Man reason its #2, lack of posts by Lon... Love the Adam trick ending but still, seeing the report on JJ was pretty Epic... And Chatt.. you got some talent bro, I was laughing reading your stuff AGAIN!

Glad to have participated in WW history as the #1 thread?????

LanceM
Old     (ScottR)      Join Date: Aug 2011       07-09-2015, 11:43 AM Reply   
wow... 5yrs. Nuts.

still think Lon may have been a fake... but whoever he was he was "stuntin"
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013       07-09-2015, 11:50 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceM View Post
Ok... Our thread is better than the Lon thread, but it is easily a good number #2... Man reason its #2, lack of posts by Lon... Love the Adam trick ending but still, seeing the report on JJ was pretty Epic... And Chatt.. you got some talent bro, I was laughing reading your stuff AGAIN!

Glad to have participated in WW history as the #1 thread?????

LanceM
I still like Brandon and Potatoe Shack with the 3 foot voids and dragging board racks on their Supra...
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       07-09-2015, 11:58 AM Reply   
Level 10 gymnast FtW
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       07-09-2015, 12:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by trayson View Post
I still like Brandon and Potatoe Shack with the 3 foot voids and dragging board racks on their Supra...
Link!
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013       07-09-2015, 12:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceM View Post
Link!
Starts on February 6th, 2014:
http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=800985

Scroll down to that point an enjoy.


Then in May of that year, same guy's buddy that was posting about the Supra sinks an Axis!!!!!!!!

http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=802195

Last edited by trayson; 07-09-2015 at 12:40 PM.
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       07-09-2015, 3:06 PM Reply   
Trayson.. Very entertaining and some very similar "mob" mentality against Supra like has happened with Epic in this thread... But the ending is all messed up because some posts are deleted.. Still a good enough story I was able to piece together.... Chatt was way to serious on that thread...

LanceM
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013       07-09-2015, 3:09 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceM View Post
Trayson.. Very entertaining and some very similar "mob" mentality against Supra like has happened with Epic in this thread... But the ending is all messed up because some posts are deleted.. Still a good enough story I was able to piece together.... Chatt was way to serious on that thread...

LanceM
There never was a public resolution. something happened with Supra and him behind the scenes, but I never found out.

Then his buddy sunk his Axis...
Old     (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       07-09-2015, 6:11 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by chattwake View Post
Number two: This is wakeworld. It is perhaps the most ruthless, unforgiving, juvenile and entertaining forum I have ever encountered.
You think this is bad, you haven't been on Bimmerforums Off Topic area. If this was on there, within the first 3 posts, I guarantee there would be mob mentality for the solution of "Get even with semen"
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       07-09-2015, 7:25 PM Reply   
Haha
Old     (Cabledog)      Join Date: Dec 2013       07-10-2015, 9:43 AM Reply   
JJ, we are still interested. What is the status? Post some pics please.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       07-10-2015, 11:10 AM Reply   
I was not bashing epic, i have no idea if they are or are not great boats, i was just stating the fact that they are not a player in the market when you have so many popular brands to choose from. If Epic said Tal was a bad dealer and they keep him. Enough said!
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       07-10-2015, 11:11 AM Reply   
oh, and this thread alone would be enough to stop all Epic boat sales if EPIC keeps Tal as a dealer, they would be promoting Tals business model and thats bad business period
Old     (TX_Chris)      Join Date: Jun 2015       07-10-2015, 1:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
oh, and this thread alone would be enough to stop all Epic boat sales if EPIC keeps Tal as a dealer, they would be promoting Tals business model and thats bad business period
TAL made two (major) mistakes here, IMO. The first is they didn't do an inspection on the boat when they received it. If they had, then the control module (or whatever was missing) would have been found and corrected way before JJ searched eBay. The second is they shipped the boat like it was a cattle trailer. I think they can be taught to do boat business the correct way. Therefore, I would agree with a slightly different statement:

oh, and this thread alone would be enough to stop all Epic boat sales if EPIC keeps Tal as a dealer without major changes, they would be promoting Tals existing business model and thats bad business period

Not saying I am a fan of TAL or think they deserve a break here, because I believe they are about 75% responsible for JJ's problems (everything except JJ being thorough about his purchase and the transport to insure he was getting what he expected and Epic shipping the boat directly from the defunct dealer to TAL instead of shipping it somewhere where it could be inspected). I am saying TAL could be ignorant and thus education could rectify their problems. At the end of the day, this is a single sale in a long line of sales. It is hard to eliminate Epic's presence in Texas over a single sale, no matter how bad the sale went. TAL is the only dealer in TX to sell the Epic Wake Boat (unless the Ron-Hoovers are selling them, but I have only seen center consoles from them). All of the other dealers are only carrying the Epic center console boats. TX is a pretty large market to exit on the account of a single boat sale done wrong. Epic should focus on correcting TAL's practices, as a top priority. And this is much easier said then done, but Epic should find a REAL marine dealer in TX for their wake boats. Maybe all of this and more is already happening... I don't know, but I expect something to change, or there will most definitely be a loss of confidence in Epic from even fanboys like LanceM. Hahaha
Old     (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       07-10-2015, 9:02 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceM View Post

Chatt was way too serious on that thread...

LanceM

Kinda like you in this thread...
Old     (seth)      Join Date: Sep 2002       07-10-2015, 11:20 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by TX_Chris View Post
TAL made two (major) mistakes here, IMO. The first is they didn't do an inspection on the boat when they received it. If they had, then the control module (or whatever was missing) would have been found and corrected way before JJ searched eBay. The second is they shipped the boat like it was a cattle trailer. I think they can be taught to do boat business the correct way. Therefore, I would agree with a slightly different statement:

oh, and this thread alone would be enough to stop all Epic boat sales if EPIC keeps Tal as a dealer without major changes, they would be promoting Tals existing business model and thats bad business period

Not saying I am a fan of TAL or think they deserve a break here, because I believe they are about 75% responsible for JJ's problems (everything except JJ being thorough about his purchase and the transport to insure he was getting what he expected and Epic shipping the boat directly from the defunct dealer to TAL instead of shipping it somewhere where it could be inspected). I am saying TAL could be ignorant and thus education could rectify their problems. At the end of the day, this is a single sale in a long line of sales. It is hard to eliminate Epic's presence in Texas over a single sale, no matter how bad the sale went. TAL is the only dealer in TX to sell the Epic Wake Boat (unless the Ron-Hoovers are selling them, but I have only seen center consoles from them). All of the other dealers are only carrying the Epic center console boats. TX is a pretty large market to exit on the account of a single boat sale done wrong. Epic should focus on correcting TAL's practices, as a top priority. And this is much easier said then done, but Epic should find a REAL marine dealer in TX for their wake boats. Maybe all of this and more is already happening... I don't know, but I expect something to change, or there will most definitely be a loss of confidence in Epic from even fanboys like LanceM. Hahaha
Are you aware that TAL was also the shipper?
Old     (TX_Chris)      Join Date: Jun 2015       07-13-2015, 8:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by seth View Post
Are you aware that TAL was also the shipper?
Yes... That's why I said, "TAL made two (major) mistakes here, IMO. The first is they didn't do an inspection on the boat when they received it. If they had, then the control module (or whatever was missing) would have been found and corrected way before JJ searched eBay. The second is they shipped the boat like it was a cattle trailer."
Old     (newwhit)      Join Date: Mar 2007       07-13-2015, 12:00 PM Reply   
Update?
Old     (Gotmods)      Join Date: Nov 2012       07-13-2015, 12:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by newwhit View Post
Update?
Manufacturer, dealer, and owner all seem incompetent. Huge rant thread from someone who sells tens of thousands of items a month on ebay and can't even provide pictures to document issues. How did he even let the delivery guy unhitch it from his truck?
Old     (SICKSPEED)      Join Date: May 2015       07-13-2015, 6:56 PM Reply   
UPDATE -
I took the boat out yesterday for a bit. Still no electronics working. I installed the file that Chris had gave me exactly as he said to do. I had water temp and depth. No speedo, no ballast levels, no trim tabs. Dropped the boat back off to Dons this morning and the tech was able to get some things working before I left. That was a good sign.
There are a couple other small warranty issues with the boat. 2 speaker screws seem to be stripped out and not catching (or something) and one stripped screw near the driver console. Should be an easy fix. Also the Aqua Deck pad on the anchor locker is lifting up in a few spots. Also shouldnt be too hard of a fix. Still waiting for a light for the trailer, the other parts of the bimini top (so I can use it) and cap for the wheel. Still have yet to get a quote on fixing the damage to the trailer and swim step. No idea why the guy who was supposed to give me the quote didnt get it done. I`m probably just gonna find someone else who is not too busy to give a quote.
Havent read all the recent posts because I`ve been busy with other stuff.
@Gotmods - Theres no question of me being competent to post pics. Get real.
Pics were long ago provided to Epic and TAL. Sorry I havent provided them for your viewing enjoyment.
The pics would show a dented trailer, ripped cover, marred up gelcoat and stress cracked swim step mostly. Its not a murder scene, its just damage that a new boat should not have.
I have pics here on one of these memory cards somewhere but the damage is not really so important to the story. Missing parts and a boat that wouldnt function (or even float) is the real meat and potatoes here. So everyone that wants to keep bashing on me for not posting pics of damage can just know that I dont really care. If I get around to it I might. Some people on here make me not want to post anything so I dont really give a crap. People will run off at the lip either way.
Old     (Gotmods)      Join Date: Nov 2012       07-13-2015, 7:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by SICKSPEED View Post
UPDATE -
Some people on here make me not want to post anything so I dont really give a crap.
Old     (SICKSPEED)      Join Date: May 2015       07-14-2015, 12:03 AM Reply   
Yup.
Attached Images
 
Old     (Gotmods)      Join Date: Nov 2012       07-14-2015, 2:14 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by SICKSPEED View Post
Yup.

Last edited by Gotmods; 07-14-2015 at 2:19 AM.
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       07-14-2015, 7:03 AM Reply   
How is the damage not important to the story JJ? I believe the damage and missing\broken parts ARE the story... Post em!!! Cmon

I feel the lack of pictures might be because the damage is really not as bad as you want us to believe and now you are even downplaying it.

Glad you got some water time... What did you do about the prop? Did you get it fixed? Sounds like you are on the road to getting the boat back up and running... Nice to hear you are having some success...

LanceM
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       07-14-2015, 8:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
How is the damage not important to the story JJ? I believe the damage and missing\broken parts ARE the story... Post em!!!
This!.... because you say:
Quote:
The pics would show a dented trailer, ripped cover, marred up gelcoat and stress cracked swim step mostly. Its not a murder scene, its just damage that a new boat should not have.
....I would bet my next paycheck this is shipping damage, this is NOT on Epic.

Quote:
Missing parts and a boat that wouldnt function (or even float) is the real meat and potatoes here.
I still call BS on a lot of this... now the boat wouldn't float... correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a new one. I still think the "missing parts" were because of TAL and not Epic.... or JJ screwing something up on his new boat right off the bat and looking for a scapegoat. You pretty clearly illustrated your lack of boating experience thus far.

In my head, here is how things played out.

* Bought the boat sight unseen - arranged delivery
* Boat was delivered with damage - you're upset but its what you paid for
* Used the boat and screwed something up first time or two out - now you're really upset and looking to pass the blame
* Point fingers at the Mfg to cleanup a self inflicted damage to the boat.

.... all of this is based on how weird and shady the whole story is.... and even IF there were problems, based on your posts, you've handled the whole situation terribly.

Last edited by sidekicknicholas; 07-14-2015 at 8:10 AM.
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013       07-14-2015, 9:56 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by SICKSPEED View Post
I had water temp and depth..
At least you have your rock finder back.
Old     (BurnMac42)      Join Date: May 2015       07-14-2015, 10:15 AM Reply   
I'm still baffled at the number of people who are willing to overlook the fact that the boat was sold new from an authorized dealer.

These boats are $80k+ ($60k in this case)....Some of you guys on here are really quick to write off $60k and act like a product with that type of price tag with the problems he's having isn't a big deal when it isn't your money on the line.

Personally, if I spent $60k on something no matter what the product was, if it was advertised as brand new I would not expect it to come in with missing parts. People want to assign blame on TAL vs Epic...whatever..

At the end of the day, it's Epic's name that is splashed all over that boat AND in the real world, who you do business with DOES reflect on your company which is why business to business you want to work with someone who holds your business's values as their own....

I'm assuming Epic has a much higher expectation of standards than TAL does however Epic willing to do business with TAL does reflect poorly on Epic and again, at the end of the day, it's their name all over that boat so the buck stops with them.

That's leadership 101...

I work in a world filled with Prime and sub contractors and from my end of the world if the sub performs poorly, I look at the prime and tell them to un-%$#% their sub or go find someone else who can actually handle the work....
Old     (SICKSPEED)      Join Date: May 2015       07-14-2015, 10:29 AM Reply   
@gotmods - Thats cute.

@sidekicknicholas
I`ve owned boats continuously for 17 years. Before that my father took me boating. If you`ve never banged a prop before I would wonder how much boating experience you have.
Anyway, its weird to me how many people here apparently think that depth finders are completely worthless. Aside from that I`m not asking for a new prop. I already sent mine for repair and bought another.
That said, IF my depth finder was functioning I could have seen the depth and had the option to kill the motor or otherwise change course. Anyway I digress.
You might want to at least go back and read the thread for some facts.
1. I paid for a new boat. No disclosure of damage was ever made prior to sale.
2. I did NOT arrange shipping.
3. Yes. I am upset. I`ve had this "new" boat for 50 days of a hot summer and it has been been completely inoperable for most of that time. I have invested countless hours into rehabbing this thing and brokering repairs, going back and forth between Dons, NW Autobody, TAL and Epic.
Now I`m 50 days in and the boat has not yet functioned correctly one single time.
Zero compensation has been made other than writing checks for minimal repairs. Repairs are still ongoing.

As I have said before, Epic may not be directly responsible for some of this but they knew the boat was likely to have issues including but not limited to missing parts and they allowed their authorized dealer to sell it without a pre-delivery inspection. Epic and TAL and figure out fault between themselves and get back to me with a resolution. So far none has been offered.

And in case this was missed, the boat would NOT have floated because there was a 4" tube that goes to the center ballast tank that went directly to a valve that was grenaded. Imagine a 4" hole below the waterline of your boat, dumping water directly inside. No way your bilge can keep up with that kind of flow.
Old     (Cabledog)      Join Date: Dec 2013       07-14-2015, 11:44 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnMac42 View Post
I'm still baffled at the number of people who are willing to overlook the fact that the boat was sold new from an authorized dealer.

These boats are $80k+ ($60k in this case)....Some of you guys on here are really quick to write off $60k and act like a product with that type of price tag with the problems he's having isn't a big deal when it isn't your money on the line.

Personally, if I spent $60k on something no matter what the product was, if it was advertised as brand new I would not expect it to come in with missing parts. People want to assign blame on TAL vs Epic...whatever..

At the end of the day, it's Epic's name that is splashed all over that boat AND in the real world, who you do business with DOES reflect on your company which is why business to business you want to work with someone who holds your business's values as their own....

I'm assuming Epic has a much higher expectation of standards than TAL does however Epic willing to do business with TAL does reflect poorly on Epic and again, at the end of the day, it's their name all over that boat so the buck stops with them.

That's leadership 101...

I work in a world filled with Prime and sub contractors and from my end of the world if the sub performs poorly, I look at the prime and tell them to un-%$#% their sub or go find someone else who can actually handle the work....
This is exactly where I am at with this whole thing. I work for a prime contractor and our main customer is the largest broadband provider in the US. This situation would have never been allowed to get this far out of hand. At the current status of escalation it most likely would have cost people or subs their jobs due to the lack of a sense of urgency. Protecting our customers interests and values is first and foremost. Don't leave that important job in the hands of your subs to do unsupervised as they rarely understand the big picture.

My move would have been to do whatever it takes to fix it promptly and sort it out behind the scenes with my sub (TAL). Our contracts are in the tens of millions so even if I had to buy the boat back it would be a fraction of what I stood to lose by risking our contract over stupid sh*t. We call it stepping over dollars to pick up dimes...

JJ has taken some crap over his past and what I would consider some whiney comments rooted in frustration but it doesn't defer from the facts as stated by BurnMac42
Old     (moon)      Join Date: Oct 2008       07-14-2015, 5:06 PM Reply   
JJ, this question is definitely off topic, but where were you boating when you busted your prop on a rock? The Yakima River or somewhere else in WA?
Old     (MattieK27)      Join Date: Mar 2010       07-14-2015, 6:16 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by SICKSPEED View Post
I`ve owned boats continuously for 17 years. Before that my father took me boating.
And you still bought a boat sight unseen for 60k. Unbelievable...

In my opinion, someone with that amount of years boating would know to not buy a boat without looking it over, even if its "new." Plus your years of internet misappropriation? (Whats a nice word for scam?) I mean, it would seem to me that if anyone would know to make sure what you were getting was as described, it would be you.

Carry on...
Old     (illini88)      Join Date: Oct 2007       07-14-2015, 6:34 PM Reply   
Do we really have people accepting as fact everything coming from the guy who 1. refuses to show any evidence of his claims; and 2. has acknowledged having issues with fraud in his past?

This thread does bring up a couple of interesting questions to me? First of all, what constitutes "new" when you're purchasing something? When I think of new, I think of something that hasn't been titled to someone else before. Now, in this case, we don't know if JJ is the original owner or not because apparently despite paying for the boat 50 days ago, he doesn't have the title. I've looked at brand new cars on car lots before that have scratches or dents on them. To me, that doesn't preclude them from being "new."

Similarly, it makes me wonder who is responsible for shipping damage. If I order a TV online from Best Buy and have it shipped to me, and it arrives with a box that is beat up and the remote is missing, is that the manufacturer's issue or is that Best Buy's issue? I'd have always thought that is the store's fault, but apparently, we have people on here who would see this as a serious business flaw on the part of the manufacturer.
Old     (SICKSPEED)      Join Date: May 2015       07-14-2015, 7:02 PM Reply   
About the title. Turns out when you buy a new boat they dont give you a title. The first owner gets one issued for it. No one at TAL explained that. The boat was never titled before.
As far as how to divide fault between the manufacturer and dealer, I`m not so much worried about who wants to take blame. I just wish they would each accept some part and work out a solution. I`m over being angry about it, but I still intend to seek some fairness
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       07-14-2015, 7:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by SICKSPEED View Post
About the title. Turns out when you buy a new boat they dont give you a title. The first owner gets one issued for it. No one at TAL explained that. The boat was never titled before.
As far as how to divide fault between the manufacturer and dealer, I`m not so much worried about who wants to take blame. I just wish they would each accept some part and work out a solution. I`m over being angry about it, but I still intend to seek some fairness
LOL you are way lazy man.... TAL did a lot of things wrong here, but not knowing what the titling laws are in WA was not one of them. Did you ever try just calling your DMV or whoever registers boats in your state to ask what you need?

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