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Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-11-2019, 3:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Good question. Why go to a third party if you can control it your self? Businesses by up smaller companies all the time so they can have control of parts deliveries and technology that they need for their product. Trump being a businessman, I would consider this a natural extension/ question to be asked. We are trying to make a battery powered US, so it makes sense to own the resources to do so. You at least have to ask the question.


That would make sense if we were nationalizing the resource.

But would there be any restriction upon selling the minerals extracted from the territory of Greenland on the world market?

If not, it sounds like a way to use my tax dollars (buying Greenland) to benefit multinational mineral extraction firms.

We do already have an example domestically where the oil industry is lobbying hard to get pipelines built. Most of the controversy over the pipelines has been about the enviro impact of pipelines... not much attention is paid to the reason for the pipelines — to get the oil to port so it can be exported and sold to foreign lands.

If we were really all about energy security why not impose tariffs on foreign oil to encourage the health of the domestic resource? All the talk of China manipulating trade — OPEC has manipulated oil openly and brazenly for more than 40 years.

I’m afraid our mineral extraction policies wouldn’t be any different.
Old     (wombat2wombat)      Join Date: Sep 2018       09-11-2019, 4:50 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
That would make sense if we were nationalizing the resource.

But would there be any restriction upon selling the minerals extracted from the territory of Greenland on the world market?

If not, it sounds like a way to use my tax dollars (buying Greenland) to benefit multinational mineral extraction firms.

We do already have an example domestically where the oil industry is lobbying hard to get pipelines built. Most of the controversy over the pipelines has been about the enviro impact of pipelines... not much attention is paid to the reason for the pipelines — to get the oil to port so it can be exported and sold to foreign lands.

If we were really all about energy security why not impose tariffs on foreign oil to encourage the health of the domestic resource? All the talk of China manipulating trade — OPEC has manipulated oil openly and brazenly for more than 40 years.

I’m afraid our mineral extraction policies wouldn’t be any different.
When you quit thinking like someone who "cares" & start realizing the world is a chess board being played by others & that it ALL boils down to hegemony, you realize when you act weak like you do, the others aren't & will pounce & take. Like China. Like Russia, you know the great boogey man for the last 3 years. Do you think buying Alaska was a bad idea? 30 years from now when (if) we own Greenland & its resources do you think ANYONE will look back & give two or even one s**t that your tax dollars were spent?
Old     (wombat2wombat)      Join Date: Sep 2018       09-11-2019, 4:52 AM Reply   
Better yet, if the Greenland deal was to move forward, we all know aside from making fun of Trump now, it'll be a bi-partisan "what's' best" for the nation & applauded as a great strategic win. When CNN tells you to think that way or a Dem president makes it happen, you'll change your tune anyway.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-11-2019, 4:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wombat2wombat View Post
When you quit thinking like someone who "cares" & start realizing the world is a chess board being played by others & that it ALL boils down to hegemony, you realize when you act weak like you do, the others aren't & will pounce & take. Like China. Like Russia, you know the great boogey man for the last 3 years. Do you think buying Alaska was a bad idea? 30 years from now when (if) we own Greenland & its resources do you think ANYONE will look back & give two or even one s**t that your tax dollars were spent?
So since when do we start making unsolicited offers to buy our allies' territories and then get butt hurt when told that that would be absurd?

When you start understanding that America's hegemony is based largely upon strategic alliances and not being dictator of the world, you realize that "us vs everyone" is an impossible foreign policy.
Old     (wombat2wombat)      Join Date: Sep 2018       09-11-2019, 5:12 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
So since when do we start making unsolicited offers to buy our allies' territories and then get butt hurt when told that that would be absurd?

When you start understanding that America's hegemony is based largely upon strategic alliances and not being dictator of the world, you realize that "us vs everyone" is an impossible foreign policy.
Oh I don't disagree at all& we're not even close to being that way no matter how much you think Orange man is bad. We've made proposals to buy Greenland since 1867 & have made several offers. Derp. Orange man bad. If you think Trump is actually reshaping our alliances & going into anything alone, you're a special kind of stupid. Bolton is gone because Trump wouldn't start another war. None of our allies are abandoning ship because of Trump & Trump hasn't done anything dictator like but he should step it up just to shut you lefties up already. Worst literal Hitler ever
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       09-11-2019, 6:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
So since when do we start making unsolicited offers to buy our allies' territories and then get butt hurt when told that that would be absurd?

When you start understanding that America's hegemony is based largely upon strategic alliances and not being dictator of the world, you realize that "us vs everyone" is an impossible foreign policy.
That is where the leftist ideas have rotted your brain. Since when is sticking up for yourself and having proper boundaries being a dictator?

If I was your neighbor and took your tools and just walked into your house daily without you knowing then I told you to stop, would I be a dictator?
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       09-11-2019, 8:09 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
That is where the leftist ideas have rotted your brain. Since when is sticking up for yourself and having proper boundaries being a dictator?

If I was your neighbor and took your tools and just walked into your house daily without you knowing then I told you to stop, would I be a dictator?
Please explain. What does proposing to buy Greenland have to do with "sticking up for yourself and having proper boundaries"? I'm pretty sure that thinking you can buy certain countries to serve economic needs would be borderline dictator behavior.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-11-2019, 8:09 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
That is where the leftist ideas have rotted your brain. Since when is sticking up for yourself and having proper boundaries being a dictator?

If I was your neighbor and took your tools and just walked into your house daily without you knowing then I told you to stop, would I be a dictator?
Having trouble following your analogy. Who is Denmark in that scenario?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       09-11-2019, 10:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Please explain. What does proposing to buy Greenland have to do with "sticking up for yourself and having proper boundaries"? I'm pretty sure that thinking you can buy certain countries to serve economic needs would be borderline dictator behavior.
You really don't understand how the US expanded do you?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       09-11-2019, 11:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
That would make sense if we were nationalizing the resource.

But would there be any restriction upon selling the minerals extracted from the territory of Greenland on the world market?

If not, it sounds like a way to use my tax dollars (buying Greenland) to benefit multinational mineral extraction firms.

We do already have an example domestically where the oil industry is lobbying hard to get pipelines built. Most of the controversy over the pipelines has been about the enviro impact of pipelines... not much attention is paid to the reason for the pipelines — to get the oil to port so it can be exported and sold to foreign lands.

If we were really all about energy security why not impose tariffs on foreign oil to encourage the health of the domestic resource? All the talk of China manipulating trade — OPEC has manipulated oil openly and brazenly for more than 40 years.

I’m afraid our mineral extraction policies wouldn’t be any different.
In this case we have our oil. It is best to use the worlds oil, that way if theirs goes away, we have our supply.

For the minerals, we either don't have any at the moment or past parties have made it impossible for us to mine for them in the US. As that being the case, we need to have our own control of minerals are we will really be screwed by the world actors. Of course that is ok with you democrats considering we would not want any companies to have rights to mine them but it is ok for the chinese to mine them.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       09-11-2019, 11:12 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Having trouble following your analogy. Who is Denmark in that scenario?
Where is your back bone in real life. You are equating the US (well Republicans because we all know democrats want to be free party guy) telling the world we are not making one sided deals that only help them and not us is being dictators. I say it is sticking up for us The mind set if we tell people they have to quiet down, quit spilling drinks and stay off the lawn that we are being a dictator is like a child. They always want more until you tell them they don't have to go home but they have to leave. Then they throw a fit and they will. Our democrats throw a fit because they want to give it all away so they can live their one world dream.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       09-11-2019, 11:33 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
You really don't understand how the US expanded do you?
Surely you would agree that times have changed since the US last "expanded", no?
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       09-11-2019, 11:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
In this case we have our oil. It is best to use the worlds oil, that way if theirs goes away, we have our supply.

For the minerals, we either don't have any at the moment or past parties have made it impossible for us to mine for them in the US. As that being the case, we need to have our own control of minerals are we will really be screwed by the world actors. Of course that is ok with you democrats considering we would not want any companies to have rights to mine them but it is ok for the chinese to mine them.
"Our oil"? You do realize that companies that drill for oil in the US are free to export to just about any country they choose? Companies certainly aren't stockpiling oil for American consumption as you seem to propose.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       09-11-2019, 11:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Please explain. What does proposing to buy Greenland have to do with "sticking up for yourself and having proper boundaries"? I'm pretty sure that thinking you can buy certain countries to serve economic needs would be borderline dictator behavior.
You guys are acting like asking the question to buying a piece of land from a country is being a bully dictator and not being a good teammate alliance wise. This on top of all the other things you complain about which is usually Trump telling people like China that they can not continue to do business the way they are doing business with us. Or looking at that horrible NAFTA deal and saying it is time to revisit it because it is killing our middle class. I should ask you as to why asking about buying Greenland is so horrible to you people? Why are democrats so into killing out middle class to build mexicos or chinas?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       09-11-2019, 11:39 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
"Our oil"? You do realize that companies that drill for oil in the US are free to export to just about any country they choose? Companies certainly aren't stockpiling oil for American consumption as you seem to propose.
Do you know know about our strategic reserves? I though you guys said we have to get all that Iraq and Saudi oil and we are beholden to them. Why would we sell our oil if we need all of ours plus all of theirs? You democrats. Telling the story any way you want as long as it begins and ends with the US looking bad.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       09-11-2019, 11:41 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Surely you would agree that times have changed since the US last "expanded", no?
In what way? We asked to buy territories. Matter of fact we took advantage of dictators who needed to fund a war. We got most of the US by that method. Did times really change or is change always negative in your mind?
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       09-11-2019, 11:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
In what way? We asked to buy territories. Matter of fact we took advantage of dictators who needed to fund a war. We got most of the US by that method. Did times really change or is change always negative in your mind?
When's the last time the US purchased new territory?

We "got most of the US" by hostile takeover. Let's not act like we rescued the Native Americans from evil dictators.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       09-11-2019, 11:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Do you know know about our strategic reserves? I though you guys said we have to get all that Iraq and Saudi oil and we are beholden to them. Why would we sell our oil if we need all of ours plus all of theirs? You democrats. Telling the story any way you want as long as it begins and ends with the US looking bad.
Yeah, our strategic reserve equates to about a month's supply of the US's consumption.

You don't get it. Oil that is drilled in the US doesn't become property of the US government. It is property of whatever company owns the well. They are then free to sell to whoever is going to create the largest profit. It has nothing to do with democrat or republican. It's called the free market. You seem to think you live in Venezuela.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       09-11-2019, 11:56 AM Reply   
Natives did not own the land. Who did they steal the land from? In your mind humans have been alive for millions of years. Someone had to have it before the Indians.

regardless, you are moving the goal post. We got our land by buying it or those countries ceding it.



Are you saying you want us to use a hostile take over or is offering to buy a bad thing? What would really be the issue? I have yet to hear a concise negative besides companies would get to mine the material or we did hostile take overs 200 years ago. I don't follow the logic.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       09-11-2019, 11:58 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Yeah, our strategic reserve equates to about a month's supply of the US's consumption.

You don't get it. Oil that is drilled in the US doesn't become property of the US government. It is property of whatever company owns the well. They are then free to sell to whoever is going to create the largest profit. It has nothing to do with democrat or republican. It's called the free market. You seem to think you live in Venezuela.
So what is the negative to that. The government collects taxes. Jobs are created. If they US really needed every bit of oil in the world like leftist claim we are invading everyone for, then why would our companies need to sell it to anyone else? It would all stay domestic. Why is there such an adversion to companies making products. Are we really down to this?
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       09-11-2019, 12:05 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
So what is the negative to that. The government collects taxes. Jobs are created. If they US really needed every bit of oil in the world like leftist claim we are invading everyone for, then why would our companies need to sell it to anyone else? It would all stay domestic. Why is there such an adversion to companies making products. Are we really down to this?
See, now you are just being dishonest. Me pointing out to you how the oil market in the US does not equate to me saying I have any "adversion (sic)" to it. Quit being so obtuse.

And you are taking the narrative of a few (from the George W. Bush presidency) and claiming it to be the entire democratic party. Let's do that with every crazy thing that came from a loony right-winger and then apply it universally to the entire GOP.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       09-11-2019, 12:11 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Natives did not own the land. Who did they steal the land from? In your mind humans have been alive for millions of years. Someone had to have it before the Indians.

regardless, you are moving the goal post. We got our land by buying it or those countries ceding it.



Are you saying you want us to use a hostile take over or is offering to buy a bad thing? What would really be the issue? I have yet to hear a concise negative besides companies would get to mine the material or we did hostile take overs 200 years ago. I don't follow the logic.
In "my mind"? I think it is just about scientific fact that humans have been around for a couple of hundred thousand years. I would say, land ownership was something that came around much later in human civilization. You seem to think that there were some predetermined laws on who had claim to different parts of the globe.

It's not a bad thing, it's just asinine. What would you say if the Canadians offered to buy Alaska? Or the Cubans offered to buy Florida?
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       09-11-2019, 12:14 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
See, now you are just being dishonest. Me pointing out to you how the oil market in the US does not equate to me saying I have any "adversion (sic)" to it. Quit being so obtuse.

And you are taking the narrative of a few (from the George W. Bush presidency) and claiming it to be the entire democratic party. Let's do that with every crazy thing that came from a loony right-winger and then apply it universally to the entire GOP.
Well. Look who is slowly becoming a fascist. Good for you. I assume you are becoming a fascist? Isn't that the name the left gives anyone with a common sense position these days? Hard to keep up.

The reason I say adversion is you guys always seem to argue that businesses and so on producing and selling is a negative. Well at least when companies from the US do it.

Besides, the narrative was not just from the Bush era. Ralph just said it in one of these threads less than 2 weeks ago.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       09-11-2019, 12:19 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
In "my mind"? I think it is just about scientific fact that humans have been around for a couple of hundred thousand years. I would say, land ownership was something that came around much later in human civilization. You seem to think that there were some predetermined laws on who had claim to different parts of the globe.

It's not a bad thing, it's just asinine. What would you say if the Canadians offered to buy Alaska? Or the Cubans offered to buy Florida?
I say let them offer. Right now as the law is written, foreigners are buying up much of the US right now as we speak. They already own it. The Chinese are buying everything in California right now. Regardless, if they offer, we give them an answer. So be it. I am not going to run around calling them idiots or what every. They would have the reason to want it and we would have a reason to keep it.

We can argue about when the human construct of ownership, however it is what is in place so those are the rules. Bitching about it is not changing it and I am not sure I want it changed. At the end of the day before ownership, the strongest simply killed the weaker and took it. Aka the Indian Tribes. Sure they did not own it, but you better have not been from the wrong tribe in the other tribes water or hunting grounds.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       09-11-2019, 12:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Well. Look who is slowly becoming a fascist. Good for you. I assume you are becoming a fascist? Isn't that the name the left gives anyone with a common sense position these days? Hard to keep up.

The reason I say adversion is you guys always seem to argue that businesses and so on producing and selling is a negative. Well at least when companies from the US do it.

Besides, the narrative was not just from the Bush era. Ralph just said it in one of these threads less than 2 weeks ago.
Dude, I work in private business (an American company). Do you think I am against what I do for a living? Or that I want the company I work for to fail, so that will negatively impact me?

Ralph lives in New Zealand. Who knew that a person that lives in another country is the spokesman for the DNC.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       09-11-2019, 12:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Dude, I work in private business (an American company). Do you think I am against what I do for a living? Or that I want the company I work for to fail, so that will negatively impact me?

Ralph lives in New Zealand. Who knew that a person that lives in another country is the spokesman for the DNC.
He has the same talking points. It should have never been a talking point is my point. Never ever been a talking point by anyone in this country because it was exactly what you said. It was a foreign talking point but it was said by actual DNC members. It was never true and still is not true. It was only made to hurt Americas position.

As far as you being against what you do? I don't know. Most of the talking points against Trump's world policies are asinine. They are to help the US and American jobs and keeping strategic production in the US. Does not pay to have no means to product steel if a war breaks out. There are certain production that needs to stay in the US to keep us ready for a fight if needed.

Last edited by DeltaHoosier; 09-11-2019 at 12:55 PM.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-11-2019, 2:22 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Where is your back bone in real life. You are equating the US (well Republicans because we all know democrats want to be free party guy) telling the world we are not making one sided deals that only help them and not us is being dictators. I say it is sticking up for us The mind set if we tell people they have to quiet down, quit spilling drinks and stay off the lawn that we are being a dictator is like a child. They always want more until you tell them they don't have to go home but they have to leave. Then they throw a fit and they will. Our democrats throw a fit because they want to give it all away so they can live their one world dream.


So if Denmark offers to buy Maine would you be offended if the President said the idea was absurd?
Old     (wombat2wombat)      Join Date: Sep 2018       09-12-2019, 1:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
So if Denmark offers to buy Maine would you be offended if the President said the idea was absurd?
What is with you & your constant obtuse comparisons that aren't comparable, at all? Again, Shawn, the USA has been trying to buy Greeland since 1867. There have been multiple offers since then. It's also a stand alone country, not a state part of a continent. How it is you can't see the difference is rather amazing or you're just intellectually dishonest. Orange man bad
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-12-2019, 4:21 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wombat2wombat View Post
What is with you & your constant obtuse comparisons that aren't comparable, at all? Again, Shawn, the USA has been trying to buy Greeland since 1867. There have been multiple offers since then. It's also a stand alone country, not a state part of a continent. How it is you can't see the difference is rather amazing or you're just intellectually dishonest. Orange man bad
Fine. American Samoa then.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       09-12-2019, 5:03 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
So if Denmark offers to buy Maine would you be offended if the President said the idea was absurd?
Depends if it was an absurd offer. I don't know what I would say. Me as a private citizen maybe not. Me as a politician, it would depend on what message I am trying to send.

Heck, if they promise to Chicago, Oakland, San Fran, LA and throw in Boston so we could get rid of the Patriots, I would send $5 their way just to take it all.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       09-12-2019, 5:09 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Fine. American Samoa then.
Sorry, With the name "American" in it, it is clearly a bad place that is destroying the earth. Democrats should protest it.
Old     (wombat2wombat)      Join Date: Sep 2018       09-12-2019, 5:21 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Fine. American Samoa then.
What? It's already an unincorporated territory of the States. It also doesn't have all the resources & strategic location we're after regarding Greenland. So again I ask, do you have a real comparison or just more intellectual dishonesty?

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