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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Wakeboarding Discussion Archives > Archive through June 07, 2004

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Old     (tallman)      Join Date: May 2004       05-21-2004, 7:45 AM Reply   
I have been trying to land back rolls since the middle of last summer and I could really use some help. Everytime I throw a back roll I turn in the air and almost land it switch. I can't seem to staighten myself out and land normally. I was wondering if anyone else has had this problem and what can I do to stop myself from turning in the air. Please help I'm getting tried of almost landing it.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       05-21-2004, 7:55 AM Reply   
Have you tried letting go with your back hand half way through the trick? That might help.
Old     (harryhog)      Join Date: Mar 2003       05-21-2004, 7:55 AM Reply   
don't we all.

sounds like ure letting the handle move towards your back hip. Try to exagerate keeping the handle on the front hip (it should really be in the middle) but exageration always corrects things
Old     (tallman)      Join Date: May 2004       05-21-2004, 8:03 AM Reply   
I have tried letting go with my back hand, but I have never gave the handle postion much thought Tomorrow when I ride I will give the handle postion a try. Thanks guys
Old     (ladyboarder)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-21-2004, 8:10 AM Reply   
Hi Mark, the backroll to revert is actually a more natural rotation for the body due to the way the trick is initiated. Your problem could be caused by several different things:
Letting the rope get too far back - you may be pulling the rope towards your back hip in an effort to keep it in close. Keeping the handle in is important, just be sure you pull either straight in or towards your front hip.
Opening your chest too much - You do want to initiate the trick by pushing your chest and hips upward, you may be letting your shoulders get too open, which pulls the rest of your body around.
Trying too hard to spot the water - This kinda goes back to opening your shoulders up too much. You may be turning your head too much towards your lead shoulder, thus opening your chest up.
Edging too much away from the boat - the trick is initiated by edging away from the boat and pushing your chest and hips up. You may be carrying that edge a little too far away from the boat and it opens up your whole body. Try setting the edge as you come up the wake and hold that edge all the way up the wake, don't edge really hard at the top.
Hope this kinda helps some, I personally think that letting go with your back hand could cause more problems down the road with letting the handle get too far out and being pulled off balance. Try to concentrate on keeping both hands on the handle and pulling it towards your lead hip. Spot the water and make corrections to your position.
Later
Tiffany Landry
Old     (tallman)      Join Date: May 2004       05-21-2004, 9:15 AM Reply   
Thanks A lot Tiffany. That sounds like great advise.
Old     (bradb)      Join Date: Oct 2003       05-21-2004, 9:31 AM Reply   
Tiffany,
(first off, good advice. Also... I'm assuming we're talking hs back roll rather than toe side...)
But, do you really think a roll to revert is easier or more natural? I always just think of a hs back roll as a barrel roll rather than a back flip. Edging into the wake and all the way through the trick my shoulders and hips are square to the boat. I definately agree about keeping both hands on the handle though for learning it though.
Laters,
Brad
Old     (ladyboarder)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-21-2004, 9:51 AM Reply   
Hi Brad, I didn't say that a roll to revert was easier, heck I've been trying to land them on and off for two years and can't get it consistent. I just said that the rotation that your body makes is more natural due to the way the trick is thrown. If you continue to edge harder and harder through the wake, you will get a nice yank on the line, like a raley, if you let go at that moment (or like me, have the rope pull out of your hands because it yanked so hard) you will spin to revert some and land on your butt. I have watched videos of guys throwing backrolls and they rotate a bit to revert then pull it back before they land.
I guess it depends on how you throw the trick. If you continue to edge harder and harder all the way up the wake, (like my experience above) your body will tend to rotate some. If you set an edge and hold it up and through the wake, your chest will most likely stay pretty square, which is most likely what you do. If you let off your edge at the wake, you will sorta ball up like a front flip.
I may be wrong about that, or it may just be the case for me, but its what I've noticed after 5 years of backrolls and another year of failed backroll attempts.
woo hoo, I love riveting discussions like this one!
Old     (crracer)      Join Date: Nov 2003       05-21-2004, 9:57 AM Reply   
You know while someone opened another thread about this I guess I can ask for some advice as well. I have had a really good rotation for the backroll down now for about two months. Very big and very slow. My problem is that when I came around and are about to hit the water one of two things keep happening, 1st I'm tilted backwards just slightly but enough to keep me from sticking it(just like if you were standing on solid ground and someone pushed in the chest while you kept you feet planted). 2nd the times when i dont have the 1st to deal with, I can't seem to stop my rotation. I'm doing them big an slow but I still feel like when it's time to spot that I'm already touching the water. So i guess the area I need help with is the landing, spoting, as well as handle positioning.
Old     (canaday)      Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hawthorne       05-21-2004, 10:05 AM Reply   
Well Chris, first off, start by drinking miller lite. I can't imagine anyone doing a backroll without a miller in hand. When you land and you are back on your heels it's because you're coming up off the wake with your hips behind the board in a cutting position, so you're landing in the same position. Try being more on top of the board when you take off (I don't mean going flat!) Think about keeping your entire body in the plane of rotation, not just your upper body. I don't really understand what you are talking about the 2nd time. Do you mean that you are trying to spot too late? Or when you are touching the water you are touching it with your head?
Old     (ladyboarder)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-21-2004, 10:18 AM Reply   
Hi Chris, big and slow rotations are good, much easier to control.
1. I have problems with butt sliding too sometimes. It seems like it happens more when I'm thinking "ok, I'm going to do this HUGE" then I go big, but land on my butt. I think it has to do with trying to "throw" the trick too much. You may be throwing too hard off the top of the wake, making your feet fly out behind you, then you rotate slightly angled and your feet end up in front of you. Ok, that's kinda hard to explain, so let me try another way...hmmm, ok, if you have a piece of string and you are twirling it around, it has a certain axis of rotation, right? So, if you twirl it vertical, the whole thing spins vertical, but if you angle it some, it spins angled. That may be what's happening with the backroll. Ok, wow, that was a bad explanation, but its the best of the four I've written and deleted. So, basically, don't think of going big, just let the trick flow off the top of the wake and rotate itself.
2. Now that I have you thoroughly confused, and probably spelled thoroughly wrong, we'll move on. I also have problems with major overrotation, especially if I go to a bigger wake and get all intimidated. Handle position is important to rotation, the closer you have the handle, the faster you rotate. So, if you are going to overrotate, let your arms out. I have a bad habit of letting go with my back hand and flailing it around to slow my rotation, but it works sometimes, just look like a duck that's been shot. You want to be looking over your lead shoulder as soon as you come off the wake, that way you can spot the landing as soon as possible. It's much easier to land on something you can see. The handle should be centered on your body through the rotation, meaning, it should be in close to your belly button. That gives you maximum control over it. Too far out and you could get yanked on the landing.
Ok, well, probably by the time I actually post this you will have all the help you need. Since its taken me forever to write this.
Anyway, hope it helps, feel free to ask any more questions.
Later
Tiffany
Old     (crracer)      Join Date: Nov 2003       05-21-2004, 10:56 AM Reply   
Hey sean and tiffany thanks a bunch the using the handle to slow up my rotation might be exactly what I need as well as standing taller thanks again guys. I was able to take a few things from both of you. Sean What I mean by having no time to spot the landing can probably just be eleviated by moving the miller lite can out of my line of site.Can't wait for you to heal up man and get back out there with us. I needed a third this a.m. and couldn't find anyone so we didn't go.
Old     (bradb)      Join Date: Oct 2003       05-21-2004, 1:07 PM Reply   
The other keys to the back roll are:
1) To edge all the way through the top of the wake (don't throw the flip early)
2) You always seem to land most tricks in a simelar position to how you take off. For example, if you come into the wake with too much weight on your back foot, you will come around and land with too much weight back there. (simelar to what tiffany said in her reply to chris' question #1)
3) Always try to land with the board on edge. If you are doing a hs back roll, land and continue to edge away hs. For a hs back roll to revert, you want to land on your toe side edge (never on a flat board - a flat board will slide out on you).
Hope some of these help. It's always a rush to learn somthing new!
B
Old     (crracer)      Join Date: Nov 2003       05-21-2004, 8:20 PM Reply   
heck ya brad thanks for the advice. Last time i was out I stomped a huge switch hs shifty 180 and when I stuck it It was pure joy. Seriously i know that there is nothing special to the trick but it was so awesome and what made it even better is a few of my friends knew that there was something different to that jump and they were going nuts.

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