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Old     (skull)      Join Date: May 2002       07-21-2009, 6:35 AM Reply   
I shot a bunch of pictures this weekend right at Sunset in much lower light than I normally shoot in.

Usually, I shoot in aperature priority and adjust it so the shutter speed is around 1/1500 to 1/2500 and go with it. I am usually around f4 to 6.3

In the lower light even at f2.8, my shutter speed wasn't fast enough to stop motion and get clear shots. After reviewing the pictures I think I know what I have should have done...

Go to shutter priority and set it to 1/1500 and then crank the ISO up until I get a properly exposed picture... probably around 1600. Is that right? Any other suggestions for low light wakeboarding? I guess I could have used my 580EX but didn't have it along and am not real skilled with using it yet.
Old     (bigdad)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-21-2009, 9:17 AM Reply   
Yes, that's the only thing you can do. You are going to introduce noise at 1600... depending on your camera.

A flash won't work for two reasons. The rider is going to be too far away to have any great effect. But more importantly is your flash sync speed. Cameras have a flash sync speed of 1/200 - 1/500. Too slow of a shutter speed for you if you are trying to freeze it at 1/1500.
Old     (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       07-21-2009, 7:09 PM Reply   
It's hard to freeze action without a flash. This is about as low a light level as I've ever shot. 1/1000th, ISO2500, pushed 2/3rds of a stop. I like the mood of these type shots which is tough to get with a flash.

Old     (russian)      Join Date: Feb 2008       07-21-2009, 7:11 PM Reply   
Actually, you can use flash to stop action, and it can be a great tool. But there is a large learning curve. Also, on camera flash will not work(in this situation) without a flash extender(the name escapes me right now, but it's what wildlife shooters use)
Old     (bakes5)      Join Date: Aug 2006       07-22-2009, 6:55 AM Reply   
I believe the flash extender is called a tube-n-pocketwizarderorlator
Old     (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       07-22-2009, 7:06 AM Reply   
The one Arthur Morris is always touting is the Better Beamer.
Old     (bigdad)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-22-2009, 8:22 AM Reply   
Better Beamer - I just googled it. What an interesting contraption.

With the lens and teleconverters on this camera, I would say he is shooting very far away. I'm thinking it may work.
Old     (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       07-22-2009, 1:10 PM Reply   
This was pretty much taken at night it was a lot darker than the picture looks no flash you can take good shots but they start to get a little grainy at higher ISO's. Wouldn't ever run in a mag because of how grainy it is, but you can get some enjoyable shots for yourself.
Old     (mroy)      Join Date: Mar 2008       07-22-2009, 6:10 PM Reply   
the better beamer looks like a normal snoot, just a narrow beam of light on what looks like a canon 580ex flash
Old     (skull)      Join Date: May 2002       07-23-2009, 10:13 AM Reply   
Why would you need that with a 580EX? I have that flash and I think it has a range of like 100' or something. I'd think it would put out plenty of light for a rider 80' back.
Old     (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       07-23-2009, 8:41 PM Reply   
If you have a chance check out the bird photography of Arthur Morris, he is a wizard with that thing. I got one a while back but have never used it. In that shot above I doubt the guy is more then 40 or 50 feet from the bird. Not sure if it would be very good on a wakeboarder.
Old     (dcervenka)      Join Date: Sep 2002       07-23-2009, 9:28 PM Reply   
Riley - with the D700 you can shoot iso 3600 at midnight and it looks like the middle of the day with no grain.. ;-) Do you have If not, shoot me the original of Bordie's pic and lets see what it can do..
Old     (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       07-24-2009, 11:00 AM Reply   
I like the grain in this shot
Old     (bigdad)      Join Date: Apr 2002       07-26-2009, 1:18 PM Reply   
Hey Rob,

By no means am I an expert in flash, but it doesn't work that way. The 580EX has a GN unit of 190 I think. You divide that by the f stop being used and that gives you the distance it can reach the subject and fully cover them.

So GN of 190 shooting at f/4 will be 47.5 feet.
Old     (rson)      Join Date: Jun 2002       07-26-2009, 1:35 PM Reply   
Hey Steezy Ever use Noiseware or Noise Ninja?

Old     (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       07-27-2009, 8:20 AM Reply   
Ho I use Photoshop CS4. Like I said I like the noise in that shot
Old     (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       07-27-2009, 7:14 PM Reply   
I'm glad you finally said "noise" instead of "grain", I was going to call you out with "it ain't film dude!"UploadUpload

I'm a big noise ninja fan, I'm sure I probably ran that shot of chris above through it. Between the high ISO capabilities and software we won't need flashes much longer!
Old     (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       07-27-2009, 8:26 PM Reply   
I cam sleep tonight now that I have your approval.
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-27-2009, 8:37 PM Reply   
wow...i've never heard of anyone being a fan of noise.

i "ninja'd" the same pic above in a previous thread.

Old     (wakesurf12)      Join Date: Jun 2003       07-27-2009, 9:42 PM Reply   
If you were to go b&w with it I totally would be fine with the noise in the picture but when it is in color then it just seems too "digital"

Just my opinion.
Old     (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       07-27-2009, 10:06 PM Reply   
But even still, you're gonna need to kill some of that noise. There's just too much of it.
Old     (rson)      Join Date: Jun 2002       07-27-2009, 11:50 PM Reply   
same through noiseware
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       07-27-2009, 11:58 PM Reply   
i applied like 1% effort. knowing you, you busted your ass on that fix.
Old     (dcervenka)      Join Date: Sep 2002       07-28-2009, 1:20 AM Reply   
joe - did you watch those tutorials yet?
Old     (dcervenka)      Join Date: Sep 2002       07-28-2009, 1:40 AM Reply   
Come to think of Riley.. I don't like the crop, grain, noise, or the colors, so I made a few changes. (I hope you don't mind..?)

I like to think of this in the same light as what AMG does for Mercedes, Ruf for Porsche, Dinan for BMW, etc.. Just tak'n it to the next level.

Old     (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       07-28-2009, 7:17 AM Reply   
Hahahahhahahaha! Punks!
Old     (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       07-28-2009, 7:19 AM Reply   
I bet David's edit would totally run in a mag!
Old     (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       07-28-2009, 8:25 AM Reply   
I don't know RT looks a little "Grainy" to me in B&W
Old     (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       07-28-2009, 8:31 AM Reply   
I am surprised none of you have said this, but this may just be my film photog teacher shining through.

You cannot rely on post processing to fix a photo that isn't shot well in the 1st place.

If it has a lot of noise you may be able to massage it but it will never be as good as taking a better picture.

Here is my version done in CS4
Old     (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       07-28-2009, 9:10 AM Reply   
I don't think anyone here was trying to say that was shot well in the first place.
Old     (steve_b)      Join Date: Feb 2004       08-04-2009, 1:18 PM Reply   
HAHAHAhahaha. I actually laughed out loud a little bit at scott a's post.

To me, it looks like Brodie's legs are shaved which is a far bigger deal than the noise issue.
Old     (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       08-04-2009, 1:34 PM Reply   
Scott knows what it's like to take a bad picture!
Old     (scott_a)      Join Date: Dec 2002       08-04-2009, 2:08 PM Reply   
I also know when to hit the delete button instead of posting them on wakeworld.
Old     (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       08-04-2009, 3:02 PM Reply   
Old     (steezyshots)      Join Date: Feb 2008       08-04-2009, 3:24 PM Reply   
really? because posting on WW means sooo much!

(Message edited by steezyshots on August 04, 2009)
Old     (richd)      Join Date: Oct 2003       08-06-2009, 8:37 AM Reply   
I think the SW needs to be renamed Noisewar!Upload
Old     (dcervenka)      Join Date: Sep 2002       08-07-2009, 12:05 AM Reply   
This place is becoming worse than craig's list...!
Old     (trojanman)      Join Date: May 2002       08-11-2009, 3:35 PM Reply   
I agree with big B on this one... leave the noise -take it out..... but for the sake of all that is Man - keep your leg hair growing my friends.


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