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Old    lorik            09-27-2006, 12:03 PM Reply   
Santee Lakes in Santee, CA is proposing to set up a cable ski park on Lake 1. Santee Lakes is a system of 6 lakes located in the center of an older neighborhood of track homes built in the late 50's. The cable park would be literally across the street from the bordering homes.
Put Santee Lakes, Santee, CA into Google Earth and zoom in on item A.
Do you think that a cable ski park would fit into a residential neighborhood? - Lori
Old     (tomcalabria)      Join Date: Feb 2006       09-27-2006, 12:11 PM Reply   
Youaaaaaaaaal have a lack of riding water in the SD area so I hope that you all can at least get somewhere to ride!
Old     (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       09-27-2006, 12:18 PM Reply   
Yes I do. And it will happen.

The city of Santee is going to make some money.

Do you live in those homes?

I know I'll have a season pass and so will about 100 people I know.
Old     (kylielogan)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-27-2006, 12:24 PM Reply   
they're building a home depot or something in the field across the street from my house. wish it was a cable park!!
Old     (mikel)      Join Date: Nov 2004       09-27-2006, 12:24 PM Reply   
We need to be careful how we respond to Lori's never know if it will be printed out and used to "show" that a cable park is not the "right use" for that area.
Old     (big_xstar)      Join Date: Nov 2004       09-27-2006, 12:27 PM Reply   
I really hope this happens, saw the clip on the news about it too.
We definetly need more water contact lakes here in SD
I do feel for the local residence, but come on that are has been untaped for 50+ years.
Time for a change.
Old     (hal2814)      Join Date: Feb 2006       09-27-2006, 12:35 PM Reply   
I've seen skate parks and water parks go in residential neighborhoods. Why not cable parks?
Old     (mikel)      Join Date: Nov 2004       09-27-2006, 12:55 PM Reply   
I am for it...I would think home values would see an increase.
Old     (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       09-27-2006, 1:00 PM Reply   
Skate parks are part of almost every towns public parks system now.

Ive been to KC watersports, its not loud? I think her worry must be about the type of crowd it will bring, rather unfounded.

I agree with Mike that you are likely to see this post taped up at a neighborhood zoning meeting if there is any negative talk!
Old    lorik            09-27-2006, 1:16 PM Reply   
Thanks for the feedback. Yes I do live in one of those homes. The cable park would be literally in my back yard. The press release stated that the net revenue would be $253,000 annual. I don't think that is a large sum of money.
Mike, why would my property values increase? My gut tells me that it is going to devalue the surrounding neighborhood by millions of dollars. The parks in Texas, Kansas, and Deerfield Beach, FL are not located smack in the middle of an existing residential area. I Google-Earthed them, so correct me if I am wrong. Google-Earth Santee Lakes so you just how close the homes are to Lake 1. - Lori
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-27-2006, 1:33 PM Reply   
Dang, wish it was in my back yard.

Lori, as one who frequents a cable park the only noise I really notice is the PA system playing music. The participants themselves are very quiet. I'm not sure if that's very comforting, but you never hear any hooting or hollering like if you had a ball park next door.
Old     (socalwakepunk)      Join Date: Dec 2002       09-27-2006, 1:35 PM Reply   
Lori - I live in Canyon Lake. Currently there are homes listed in my neighborhood ranging in price from the low $300k's to $3.9m. This is a huge recreation watersports community. I can tell you that many, many people in this community, including myself would not be here if it were not for the watersports. In the past, proposals of limiting and eliminating some of the watersports here have led to many debates, all with the same conclusions; It would be a big mistake, and property values would decline. Due to the expenses and costs associated with participation in recreational watersports, enthusiasts tend to be cognitive of "values"

(Message edited by socalwakepunk on September 27, 2006)
Old     (slipknot)      Join Date: Aug 2001       09-27-2006, 1:41 PM Reply   
aint that the truth, thanks wakepunk!

Home values will go up in the immediate area, for sure. People will want to live near the cable park. With the lack of useable water around, people will want to be able to walk to a cable park.
Old     (mikel)      Join Date: Nov 2004       09-27-2006, 1:43 PM Reply   
Lori, a cable park, as Tackleberry shared, would bring an added feature to your neighborhood that would likely be seen as a bonus to future buyers. Your city may also spruce things up around town to be extra nice for the tourists. If a city spends a little more on looking good, that can have a positive impact on real estate values. Imagine what opening Diamond Valley in the Temecula area would do for home values.
Old    lorik            09-27-2006, 2:18 PM Reply   
Each of your responses are very reassuring regarding my property values. I don't mind the noise, because frankly I love the sound of the park - people having fun, kids laughing, kareokee(sp) during picnics.
What I and the other residents stand to lose is the serenity and pleasure of living by the lakes. I will lose the beauty and enjoyment of my backyard. My husband and I live in the backyard - heck we even have pitched a tent and sleep outside! It's my haven, and I will lose the placid and tranquil lake view that I have now. That is the lure of living by Santee Lakes. Santee is not currently a water sports community; however; it is only 17 miles from Mission Bay and Fiesta Island. It's the opposite of a community that developed around an existing lake filled with water sport activities.
Essentially, my area will be forced into becoming a water sports community. Santee is already fighting the enormous traffic congestion that has resulted due to growth and development. The neighborhoods would become a parking lot for those who do not want to pay the parking fee. This is already happening to the homes directly across from the lake.
It was estimated that 100 - 150 people a day would be wakeboarding during the summer season. The enthusiasm for the sport leads me to think that the estimate is low.
Do you think that tournaments would be held at Santee Lakes as well? Do you think the neighborhood could accommodate that type of event? I attached a Google Earth snapshot to give you an idea of the surrounding area. - LoriUpload
Old     (committed)      Join Date: Jul 2005       09-27-2006, 2:30 PM Reply   
"My gut tells me that it is going to devalue the surrounding neighborhood by millions of dollars."

Why? This isn't Disneyland coming to town. It's a simple clean system of cables, that most wouldn't know what they are looking at, unless you told them. Remember, the lakes are already there. Construction is simple and will not impact your life. It's a bonus to the city, and to those wishing to sell their homes and a plus for buyers in the future.
Stating it will cost the neighborhood millions, sounds like you have already made up your mind? Santee needs that park, hate to say it, but it's a huge draw for not only that city, but the surrounding community. And, 250K is a huge check to add for City Services. Check your local budgets for the year. That's a few more cops/firemen. It pays for City impovements, Shelters, etc. Santee is a winner, local merchants are winners, etc, etc.
Welcome to WakeWorld, by the way.
Old     (socalwakepunk)      Join Date: Dec 2002       09-27-2006, 2:38 PM Reply   
BTW - I have been to OWC many times and to me it has a very similar feel to a little league park. Very peaceful, people enjoying themselves there in a healthy environment.
Old     (phantom5815)      Join Date: Jul 2002       09-27-2006, 2:40 PM Reply   
the net revenue would be $253,000 annual
That's it??? That's not even enough money to cover Liability insurance, maintanence,electricty & sewage, property tax or pay the wages of employees.
Old     (tbonus)      Join Date: Oct 2005       09-27-2006, 2:43 PM Reply   
It seems to me that over the last three to four years Santee has been doing a super job of changing the community from an old folks community to a family community with after school programs, rec centers and the such. This is just a continuation of the master plan.
Old     (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       09-27-2006, 2:52 PM Reply   
Lori, I think you're going to be pleasantly surprised when the cable park is finished. Although a few homeowners will probably be adversely affected due to a loss of serenity or view, the overwhelming majority of the residents of Santee will be rewarded in the form of increased property values, increased revenue (however small that amount might be) and increased services.

Keep in mind that this cable park will be bring many businesses into town as well including a pro shop, restaurant and probably a few more. It will also help ensure that the newly expanded campgrounds remain occupied.

Although this may be a con to some residents, this cable park is going to put Santee on the map. I live up in Ramona where a developer has been promising to do a housing development that includes a waterski/wakeboard lake. Although I wouldn't be living on it or around it, I know that it would be a good thing for the community.

Also keep in mind that in a county of over 3 million people, there is currently one lake with a capacity of 50 boats open for fresh water recreation. Santee will be the holder of a very rare resource for the water sports enthusiasts in this area.

The parking does sound like an issue for you and I would definitely be fighting for them to take care of that problem before they put the park in. I'm willing to bet that there will be events at the park eventually, so you would be well-advised to make sure they come up with a parking solution that works for everybody.

By the way, what are the homes selling for in your neighborhood? I may be the first one to start pushing home prices up because I will definitely entertain the thought of relocating myself.
Old     (tbonus)      Join Date: Oct 2005       09-27-2006, 2:52 PM Reply   
PHantom - net revenue of $253, the items you mention are taken out of the gross revenue to get to the net revenue.
Old    ubertuber            09-27-2006, 2:55 PM Reply   
"That's not even enough money to cover Liability insurance, maintanence,electricty & sewage, property tax or pay the wages of employees."

Key word:

Old     (mjmurphy53711)      Join Date: Mar 2004       09-27-2006, 2:59 PM Reply   
Not to mention a POSITIVE thing for the children of the neighborhood to partake in, within walking distance.
Old    lorik            09-27-2006, 3:04 PM Reply   
The $253,000 estimated net revenue goes to the Padre Damn Municipal Water District, not the City of Santee. The rest of the proceeds (approximately 700,000) goes to the development company that was awarded the contract. Of course, the city will receive residual dollars, but they will spend it to support the infrasture of added traffic, wear and tear on the existing surface streets, putting in added traffic lights, adding extra services to accommodate a larger influx of people. Its always a trade-off...
I came up the the "millions of dollars" figure rather loosely, I'll admit. But, if even if only 40 homes lose their value by $50,000, we can estimate that $2M has been lost in appreciation and home value. Or 80 homes lose $25,000 -- do the math any way you'd like. There are hundreds of homes in that neighborhood.
It is true that the lakes were already there, but the homes were there first. HOmeowners live there to enjoy the area as it is now. The water district has improved the lake and area tremendously, offering a wonderful park setting where people jog, picnic, fish, hike, camp, contemplate their life... I really want to believe that living so close to what will now become a rather populated water park with traffic and parking will make my home more desirable. But that's a hard sell. Especially, in the San Diego area where home prices are already inflated and flattening. My backyard was what made my house special and valuable. That is what I stand to lose.
The news of this water park was delivered to us by mail about a month after the water district accepted the bid from the developer. I don't think that the residents of Santee have a say in this...
I have entered this forum to find out about this cabling system and the sport. I'm a gym-rat - I've never heard of wakeboarding. My water sport is drinking marguaritas in my pool while enjoying my lake view!
Its hard to know how to feel about something when you don't have all of the facts.
BTW, that is reclaimed water that you'll be playing on. Swimming has never been allowing. - Lori
Old     (scws)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-27-2006, 3:15 PM Reply   

Please feel free to come out and ride anytime you like with us...give you a chance to at least check out the sport. You might get hooked. Also, the Canyon Lake Wakeboard Club is having its last comp of the season Oct 7...good chance to come see what the sport is all about and meet the families involved.

Or call me at 951-304-3434.

Old    lorik            09-27-2006, 3:18 PM Reply   
David, my house is currently worth about $450,000. Its a rather small house on a very large lot with what is now a fabulous backyard. The value is in the yard and its proximately to the lake, and the view. Parking and traffic are going to be a terrible problem, which hopefully will be mitagated.
T, I don't think that this is a part of Santee's master plan, because it would have been made public during the broohhaa over Fanita Ranch. This cable park is out of left field. I'm getting the revenue figures from the San Diego Union. I'm sure they are preliminary, but $253,000 net is a very small amount.
I'm trying to believe that my property will not lose its value, but the demographic that living by a water park would appeal to is small in comparison to the population of homebuyers at large. - Lori
Old     (socalwakepunk)      Join Date: Dec 2002       09-27-2006, 3:18 PM Reply   
Lori - I'm a gym rat too (10-15 hours a week). I know you don't know many here, but you sound like the kind of person who would probably get a kick out of it once you've tried it. Then it would be like one of the coolest places in the world has been built right in your very own neighborhood. Check out OWC @
Old     (socalwakepunk)      Join Date: Dec 2002       09-27-2006, 3:20 PM Reply   
Oh yeah, I still believe that ther would be no loss of value to your neighborhood property.
Old     (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       09-27-2006, 3:54 PM Reply   
Lori - You should check out the Canyon Lake event next weekend. Meet the families, like socalwakepunk, his wife and rugrats will be out there riding and having fun. Many portray this sports participants as hoodlums. In fact we are just like you, we love the outdoors, being active and enjoying time with our families doing the sport we love.

You mentioned you liked the serenity at night, that will not change. The cables run in the daytime and the peaceful evenings and nights will remain.

The demographic of your area might change a little but I guarantee you there are enough wakeboarders in the area to put a huge demand on those houses. Think about this, we spend up to $80-90k on a boat, this group has $ to spend and love the sport enough to really see the potential for a site like this. I know Dave Williams (the owner of this site who posted above) is thinking about how nice it would be to send the kids to the cable park after school for some quality exercise before he got home from work and joined them for a last set. This is like the opening of our dreams. A southern California Mecca if you will.

I agree with what socalwakepunk said. You would be hooked on it quickly. And trust me nothing is better than a cold 'rita while chilling in a pool (or hot tub) after a good wakeboard session. Loosens the muscles.
Old    lorik            09-27-2006, 3:56 PM Reply   
To Josh,
Thanks for the friendly offer. I might take you up on it ; ) If and when this park is built, let me know when you are in the neighborhood. I'll fire up the bbq and put some Coronas in the cooler.
If the worst thing that can happen is my property tanks, then the best thing that can happen is I make some new friends! - Lori
Old     (scws)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-27-2006, 4:03 PM Reply   

Old    lorik            09-27-2006, 4:10 PM Reply   
Big Heavy,
I didn't realize the amount of money spent on the sport. Probably explains why I'm a gym rat. Geez, I finally broke down and bought new gym shoes...
It's reassuring to know that my house probably will not loose it value and that it may now have something else that is special.
We spend all of our home-time outside. I only got cable TV a year ago. We grill almost every night, even in the winter. We eat outside under a heater. You can understand my anguish in loosing what I hold near and dear.
Anyhow, the offer I extended to Josh I extend to you -- when the park is complete and you are there on opening day, I might have to enjoy the party by having one of my own!
Personally, I may be a bit 'over-the-hill' for this type of activity, and therefore, more prone to soft-tissue injuries, so its probably not the type of thing that I would get into. -Lori
Old     (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       09-27-2006, 4:11 PM Reply   
Josh, did you hear that? Free Cervezas. Call Bates and let's got for a Santee road trip!! :-)
Old     (tbonus)      Join Date: Oct 2005       09-27-2006, 4:15 PM Reply   
Lori, if it were not part of the master plan why would it be happening? It goes along with the entire communities construction activites to bring in new business and family attractions. By master plan i'm refering to the areas construction trends of the past years.
As for coming out of left field, i was aware of this project for probably close to a year now. I agree the public has just been informed but the planning started some time ago.
IMO this is a project fueled by a developing community which is a good thing for property values. If it were fueled by a large corporation with dreams of big profits then i might be worried about property depreciation.
Old     (scws)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-27-2006, 4:31 PM Reply   
We are in David...and Lori already has the tent in the back yard so the accommodations are taken care of.

Not sure how old you are Lori, but there are some really old folks in the sport...just look at David, Frew, Troy Lindstrom, Mark Burk, Damien Klass, Joe Pearson, and for that matter Umali's no spring chicken.
Old    lorik            09-27-2006, 4:32 PM Reply   
The Padre Municipal Water District is its own entity. I don't yet understand the specifics, but it owns Santee Lakes and Santee Lakes is a 'self-sufficient' operation within Padre Dam MWD. It does not receive rate payer subsidy and is not tax supported. It must generate its own revenue.
I don't believe that this is part of the general plan for Santee. I have been a proponent of Fanita Ranch and spent considerable time studying the issues and the master plan, which was amended. It did not include anything regarding Santee Lakes.
I receive newsletters from Padre Dam MWD and I read them because I think they are well done. We were very much informed about the current improvements, which I love and enjoy. Never was there a mention about a ski park.
I found the RFP that the water district submitted seeking bids for the park. It was dated in early June, with the submital date of late June. We were informed on the Friday before Labor Day. I was rather 'ticked-off' See what I mean about coming out of left field?
Also, there was never any 'talk about it 'round town'. Rumors always run before the real story hits the press.
I'm left with the impression that the water district held its cards close so it can proceed quietly with its plan without interference from the residents that would be directly affected. (Like me) - Lori
Old     (scws)      Join Date: Sep 2004       09-27-2006, 4:36 PM Reply   
And Lori, that is exactly what the water district did with Diamond Valley...quietly did what they wanted to do in spite of what the public might want (made Diamond Valley a no body contact / fishing only destination). They took being sneaky a step further though and sold the tax payers a watersports mecca and THEN quietly switched things over to what the water district wanted in the first place (no body contact, etc).

(Message edited by scws on September 27, 2006)
Old    lorik            09-27-2006, 4:47 PM Reply   
I've never heard of Diamond Valley, I'll have to Google it.
My feeling is that this is a done deal. The water district has to float the plans past the City of Santee for review. I think at that point, it comes up for public review.
This would be my opportunity to strongly suggest (INSIST)that they designate the parkway that runs along the lake, a no parking zone. This would also be the public forum that could make or break the project. Santee has quite the grassroots organization against growth, and traffic is a huge sore spot for many. Traffic and parking would have to be mitigated.
The neighborhood also spent last spring putting up with the construction of road widening, new park entrance, walkway, and landscaping.
We will now have to go through that again, as they have plans to build a sports shop and restaurant.
Old     (socalwakepunk)      Join Date: Dec 2002       09-27-2006, 4:59 PM Reply   
Josh, did you just call me old? I would like everyone here to note that even though I'm older than Josh, he has more grey hair than I do.
Old     (socalwakepunk)      Join Date: Dec 2002       09-27-2006, 5:02 PM Reply   
BTW - Josh, I believe that since you mentioned my name in the media, you are under contractual obligation...That will be 1ea. carne asada taco please.
Old    lorik            09-27-2006, 5:11 PM Reply   
Well then, sounds like I'm not too old ; )
Anywhooo, I'm off-line now because I am attending the cable ski park information meeting being held tonight. I hope they have food, at least.
Thanks, all, I'll post tomorrow with an update on the plans. But I'm sure all of you are already planning to visit! Tent sleeps 8. I'll buy the first case of corona's and burgers. After that one of you is flying and buying! Hey, you're all about supporting the City of Santee!!!
Thanks again for all of your comments and posts - Lori
Old     (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       09-27-2006, 5:22 PM Reply   
Lori, when and where is the meeting? Why isn't somebody inviting me to these things! :-)
Old     (buzz_grande)      Join Date: Mar 2004       09-27-2006, 5:34 PM Reply   
I agree. Dave should be there to represent.
Old     (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       09-27-2006, 5:44 PM Reply   
What do you mean, Mike? I'm picking you up on the way!! :-)
Old     (blabel)      Join Date: Jul 2001       09-27-2006, 7:45 PM Reply   
I don't know much about the project but has an Environmental Impact Report been written? I haven't seen any literature on any opposition, which I know there will be. Just curious.

I'd love to see this happen.

(Message edited by Blabel on September 27, 2006)
Old     (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       09-28-2006, 5:44 AM Reply   
Lori, start getting excited, because you are sitting on a gold mine! I live in Dallas, and the closest cable is 3 hours away. It seems at least one group from here heads down there every weekend. It is a quiet operation that will bring no noticable change to your sanctuary. Every so often a kid will ride past, but it will be no different than if a guy on a bike rode by at the waters edge.

Definitely check out wakeboarding, I think you will be suprised how chill and fun it is. Once you have an understanding of it, it will ENHANCE your sanctuary. If you ever have to relocate you will insist that it be lakeside with a cable park!
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-28-2006, 7:25 AM Reply   
"I'm trying to believe that my property will not lose its value, but the demographic that living by a water park would appeal to is small in comparison to the population of homebuyers at large. - Lori"

I'd be thinking that my property values might see a significant rise. While the demographic might be small the availability of such a property to that demographic would be even smaller. There are only 4 cable parks in the entire US and none are anywhere close to CA. You would be sitting on a very unique piece of property. I'd be more worried about the property taxes shooting up.:-)
Old     (fox)      Join Date: Jul 2002       09-28-2006, 7:52 AM Reply   
A cable will provide another recreational outlet to what appears to be a nice city park. The times I have been to OWC...about once a year...there aren't a ton of cars. This is more of a social sport, so I think you might find people carpooling to the site, or parents dropping their kids off at the park. OWC does have a PA system with music, but I have never thought of it as loud. Coming on this list though, you will find people biased towards having a facility like this in their neighborhood. Like the Canyon lake people I bought a house on a lake becuase I like to play on my boat. I too like serenity and I get that also. I think a nice balance can be struck and my property values certainly haven't dimished because my lake is used for recreation. I think you may be pleasantly suprised.
Old     (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       09-28-2006, 9:57 AM Reply   
And if you don't like music playing over a PA. You could suggest the owners provide Liquid Tunes to all its riders so they get beats while they ride and they don't have to project music across the waterway. I know that I have a significant crew that would come down from SLO to ride the park. Road trip!! Which spells new money for the City of Santee.
Old    lorik            09-28-2006, 10:16 AM Reply   
Hi all,
The informational meeting was held by the Padre Dam MWD and the developer, Sudweeks (you Canyon Lake folks probably know them), last night. It was attended by about 40 or so nearby residents. A mailing went out to those homeowners within 500 yrds of the proposed facility.
I should perhaps post all of this in a new thread...
Traffic and parking are being addressed before the plans go before the City of Santee for approval, which would include a public forum.
There are people whose homes are a stones throw away and already have park goers using their street for parking.
The noise was addressed and I agree that the noise will be minimal. I do however, need to look into the affect the motor will have on my two dogs. Remember, dogs hear a higher range of sound than we do, and generally, these types of parks are not located smack in suburbia where pets are a concern. My dogs will certainly bark more - that is what they do!
The park manager, the president of Sudweeks, and his architect have agreed to see my backyard. The architect will render a drawing of what I will see when the cables are up.
I did join this forum because I wanted your biased opinion. When you want the straight scoop you go right to the source. I don't expect to always like what I hear. That's not the point of fact gathering ; )
It sounds like a great sport that will bring enjoyment to a great many people. It will put Santee on the world map. However, the number of tournaments will probably be limited as well as the number of participants. This neighborhood simply cannot handle a large swelling of people. I will stand firm on that.
The cable park hours will be shortened to start later in the morning. I am not friendly at 6am on Saturday and Sunday, and you probably are not either. Early am hours are simply unacceptable!
I am feeling a bit more at ease about my property values and the neighborhood value, but I have asked a couple of realtors to do some investigative work for me. Hey, this house is part of my retirement $$$.
There will probably be another meeting in couple of weeks that include the changes made to accommodate the stakeholders (me). I think they took the right tact by presenting to us first in a small group and bringing the developer on board early.
If any one of you wish to attend the next meeting, I will post when that is. You could educate us on the sport and present the benefits. And you can see our neighborhood ; ) - Lori
Old     (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       09-28-2006, 11:13 AM Reply   
I think as a whole we here at wakeworld really respect you Lori. Its refreshing to see someone get out there and educate themselves. You are really doing your homework and are standing strong on the positions that are the most glaring. We all have our biases and its awesome to see someone on the other side of the fence open to new ideas, I hope you get the same feeling from us. We all hope we can be of assistance in bringing this sport to your neighborhood in a way in which (nearly) everyone is proud to have it. Thanks for keeping us all in the loop. I can't wait to see it happen. Furthermore, I can almost guarantee that if you were to give it a go, you'd be hooked in minutes. Its not likely that you are older than socalwakepunk, thats just unfathomable. Love you Jeff!!
Old    lorik            09-28-2006, 11:27 AM Reply   
Thanks Big Heavy.
You can't make an informed decision without information. Things always change and you can only control so much. After that its make lemonade from the lemons for your marguarita!
Everyone on this forum who has responded to me has done so with respect. This attitude represents the wakeboard community as a whole. I did speak to as many homeowners as I could last night to let them know that I was communicating on this forum. I wanted to convey that my opinion was that the wakeboard community was family oriented and not a bunch of thugs and punk kids. Your representation at any of the public meetings would bring reassurance as well.- lori


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