Epic first look wakesurfing

David the Epic dealer in Sacramento and I met Jeff Walker and family to give David's new Epic 23V a try at wakesurfing. We only used the stock ballast on this trip. The results were very encouraging. The swim deck was mostly not under water while surfing so we could have added much more weight. We will in the near future be dialing in the wake. Here is a picture of Jeff.

Dennis my dad is riding backside too thats amazing.

James,
Glad to see you posting. The wake is pretty good size don't you think.
Dennis

great looking wake!

Dennis, I refuse to be converted to the Dark Side!

Dennis was able to produce his magic again and get his hands on a brand new Epic 23V from Dave out of Rancho Cordova. Dennis, I don't have Dave's contact info, will you do me a favor and post that when you have a second?

I forgot to bring the extra fat sac's so we used the stock ballast available on the boat. For those of you not aware, the boat has three tanks (port, starboard and bow) that combined, will allow for 4,200 pounds of water ballast. We didn't really play with the ballast setup that much...but as Dennis points out there is certainly a BUNCH of potential in this boat.

When you first see the boat, you'll notice the huge amount of freeboard. Without ballast, the boats gunnels would seem to be about 2 feet high.

This picture gives you a good perspective:



The rub rail at the back dips down towards the waterline, but if you were able to bring the rear back corner down, I'm sure the wake would approach monsterous height. Again, all of the pictures of the wake, I'll post in a minute, were created using stock ballast, 5 people totaling about 930 pounds and no additional aftermarket sacs.

This boat was equipped with the Volvo/Penta 8.1L engine. That's close to 500 cubic inches. The engine is powerful. No, that's inaccurate, the engine is AMAZINGLY POWERFUL. When fully loaded the boat weighs in at over 7,000 pounds and the brute force of this engine is evident. It easily put the boat on plane. This is what it looks like:



With just the wakesurfing ballast a bit of finese is required, as it will launch from zero to 10 mph+ quickly. You wanted longer arms, anyway, right?

This boat had either sideswipe or a sideswipe knockoff exhaust and quite frankly, it's loud. I have been running Fresh Air Exhaust (FAE) for over a year now and I'm spoiled. I appreciate the lower decibels of that system.

However, if you have that raging testosterone happening , you'll love the sound of this engine at speed. We have an old 69 Roadrunner with a 400 ci Mopar with 3/4 cam, 800 cfm Holley 4 barrel and flowmasters that doesn't have a thing on this engine's exhaust note.

The console is well laid out. Big guages for those of us with bifocals. The carbon or carbon'esque dash was nice looking. Everthing is in reach, ballast switches are close as were the stereo controls. I felt the throttle was a bit close to the steering wheel when cruising, but maybe that's just splitting hairs. It's functional, and easy to find what you want on the dash.

I HATE HATE HATE the maintenace on my teak deck. I liked the handling of this swimdeck with the no skid surface and NO TEAK! This boat also has transom mounted speakers. You'll see the grilles above the swim deck which house the 8 speakers. With fade control you can allow a wakesurf rider to hear his tunes without making mom and dad's ears BLEED in the boat. These well-thought out touches are what differentiate the Epic from other boats.



(Message edited by surfdad on July 13, 2006)

Now on to the meat We started riding with the port and bow ballast full and as identified above, about 900+ pounds of people. That proved to not be the best setup. As you can see there is almost a step in the wake about midway up.



Inasmuch as, Dennis set this outing up, we spent more time trying to set up the goofy wake. We emptied the bow ballast completely and messed with the speed settings. I think that with a day or so to mess with the ballast you'd be able to generate some pretty impressive wakes.

I do think the Epic is going to be one of those boats that prodces a better goofy wake than regular side wake. This picture shows the potential of the wave making ability. My estimate of ballast is 1,300 pounds of water and about 650 pounds of people. Amazingly enough, we had the speed set at 14.3 to 14.6 and the wake is still waist high. Dennis, probably 14 feet back.

Two more pictures of the goofy side wake. BIG and with the speed set close to 15 mph, you get a feeling that is much closer to surfing. You'll see that this wake is pretty steep, it'll need some "wavemeister" tinkering over the course of a few sessions to get it dialed, but the potential is most definately there.

As Dennis blasts into the sunset.



The End.

What?! You really thought I was done?

Two additional items that need mentioning. The twin rudders make the handling on this boat impressive. Actually, it's beyond impressive and reminded me of the responsiveness of our first Sea Doo Challenger Jet Boat. Even fully ladened this boat tracks better than virtually any ski boat I've ever driven. Light, precise and responsive.

You can also back a straight line. Really! Further, you can actually steer a bit while backing up, not like when going forward, but the twin rudders actually provide you some control at slow speeds AND in reverse.

The storage is generous, not CAVERNOUS like on some, but more than adequate for some wakesurfers. Additionally, the battery is tucked under the floor, so you don't lose space. Nothing chaps my butt like than claims of 20 cu feet of storage space that is interrupted by a battery stuck in the middle of it.

Rear storage with battery access:



I also liked this feature, the cooler is in the floor so you don't have to get your buddy off of the observer seat to get a drink. "Move it! I'm thirsty fat a&@!" I'm not quite sure if this will be practical, but it's interesting.



Overall, a fine boat with tons of unique features AND with lots of potential for wakesurfing.

Jeff- Do you have any other pics of the port side wake, it looks like hell compared to the goofy wakes you posted

Yeah Tyler and it WAS crap, in relative comparison. We didn't figure out the weighting situation until we decided to unweight the port side and load the starboard side - that's when we unloaded the bow ballast - 1,300 pounds and it made a HUGE difference. So just keep that in mind, too much bow weight really knocked down the wake and gave it a pronounced step in the middle of the wake. This picture shows it clearly.



We didn't go back and try reweighting the port side, but hopefully will have another opportunity to ride that boat with time to fiddle with the ballast.

Jeff, it looks like you guys were driving in a semi-circle when loaded on the starboard side? Do you know if the prop rotates the same way as a Nautique? Good looking boat...

I didn't see the boat out of the water, but Dave told us it was LH and not a RH like the pre '06 Natiques. I do believe that Dennis got a few pictures of the boat's transom upon haul out, maybe we can tell from those pictures.

We did drive circles Our normal cove on New Hogan is about a 1/2 mile square, we typically round the corners and stay in that cove. With the Epic, weighted as it was, we did have to stay pretty much hooking right the whole time. Not a slight turn, maybe 1/2 way to lock to keep the face clean.

I have this "somewhat" of the same problem with my Tige on the starboard side (ALTHOUGH NOT THAT EXAGGERATED, when we can add a bit more weight I can clean up the face. I don't believe we had a weight issue with the Epic, it was more a placement of the weight. My gut tells me we need some weight in the bow, but not the 1,300 pounds we started with...I also think we need some additional weight on the rear compartment, not a lot, just a touch. OR alternatively, no weight in the bow and a little less weight on the side tanks...at one point we stuck Dennis in the rear compartment (he's so flexible ) and that helped.

I'm thinking that with some playing around, you can probably create a pretty decent wake with the existing stock ballast and NOT have to add any external fat sac's. It's just going to require some fiddling. I don't know that it will ever be the "best" of wakesurfing wakes, but I don't think the boat is really designed for that. If you can make it waist high with factory ballast, I think that's an admirable job.

The wake was huge on the dark side(if I have the right to use that term). and driving in the circle was very easy with the twin rudder system.

attention billy bassett you were in the boat post what you thought

Hey James, how are you son? Were we able to clean up the regular side wake for you? I know you got some decent air a few times, but you'd land on the upper lip and then land again in the transition. I know that if we could get that secondary transition out, the near vertical face would probably give you TONS of air.

It would boot anyone into the air if you tried to hit the lip or not

I think the wake looked ok while we were turning. i like all of the carbon fiber and all the storage space. the twin rudders are sic do any other boats have that?

I saw my first one of these parked in front of a dealer this week. Two things jumped out at me, the exhaust exits the boat on the running surface, and what looked to be ballast intakes on the transom.

If those were the ballast intakes, I'm surprised with all the other rider friendly features, the ballast can't be filled underway?

How well did the exhaust work? (noise, fumes, foam, etc)

The second lip on the port wake is a surprise too. Where did you have the trim tab?

Overall, the boat looked great in person. Build quality reminded me of a late 90's Tigé - nothing really wrong, but cheap feeling vinyl and some loose ends here & there.

The hull was pretty interesting, lots of flat spots along the keel. Also I'm sure the 3 big tracking fins help the handling.

Can't wait to get a pull on one!

The only thing was the side swipe exhaust, it was fine while wakesurfing but once you got on the gas and the ports got out of the water it was really loud. other than that i couldnt smell any of the exhaust fumes.

Not smelling anything was due to the brain altering sound from the exhaust when you got up to speed. Listening to it for a while kills all of your senseslol. It could use to be a little quieter though.

We had the Bennett trim tab set from 0 to 100%, with all the bow weight though, it didn't make much of an impact. Once we unloaded the bow weight the tab was functional...but like I noted, we didn't run the boat on the port side with the bow ballast empty.

Like Billy pointed out, once the boat got up on step it was annoyingly loud for my tastes. The rest of the functionality was fine...OH and this one seemed to be automatic, so when the boat would list, the exhaust would automatically be routed to the other side, no driver interaction required. Pretty slick.

Ok so it didnt have the brain altering effect but it was louder than my liking. Bill cant smell anything anyway he has the abality of putting out a worse smell then any exhaust ever will.. J/K Bill.

(Message edited by surfkid on July 13, 2006)

Hey guys,
In talking to David, there is some issue with the boat not having any muffler system. This would account for the noise level. I don't believe that the full production boats would be that loud. I think we have gotten old that sound would have been music to my ears 20 years ago. The post side wake was huge unfortunately it had a feature to it that broke it up. Look at this picture of James the wake top is above his hand.
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The Epic dealer in Sacramento is Boards and Boats David Osada is the owner. He can be reached at 916-857-1857 or by e-mail at boardsandboats@gmail.com\

Hey Dennis, I'm going to try and recover that photo your just posted...keep your fingers crossed.

Sorry the pic didn't showup. Here it is

Jeff,
Another super power you have. What next? Thanks for writing the review. Very insightful as usual.
Your humble servant,
Dennis

Yes, I just need to use them for GOOD and not EVIL! Hey Dennis, that boat will have some additional mufflers or the like put on it? That would certainly make a huge difference with the sound. If that "feature" or secondary lip can be removed on the port side, it will create a huge wake, although I'm concerned with the steepness. I think that for folks like James, where he can launch off the lip, it will be great, but for the rest of us?

I'd really like to have a couple of days to mess with it and see what we could come up with. Mellow out the transition and get rid of that secondary lip.

Did you get pictures of the transom when the boat was out of the water? Could you post those when you get a second, please?

Jeff,
The exhaust will be fixed. Here is a transom pic.

Dennis, Trace was mentioning the ballast intake, I can't make it out clearly, is that what is behind the trim tab? We were always stationary when we changed ballast (scratching our heads ) and brainstorming - although it would appear they are low enough on the transom to allow forward motion.

The boat I saw was solid black. The exhaust wasn't sideswipe style. It literally came out of the bottom of the boat, right behind the prop and between the rudders. Seems like it would aerate the wake. I'm pretty sure those are the ballast intakes above the trim tab. It was three livewell pickups with screens.

Trace,
Thats exactly where they are. The exhaust on the bottom is an option.

Sooo.... have you ridden in boats with & without the bottom exhaust option? What were the differences? As long as it helps wiht a little noise or fumes and doesn't soften the wakeboarding wake, I'd think it's a great idea.

Are those the ballast intakes?

I'd also like to see the wave with rear port ballast only, might get rid of that secondary lip.

The ballasts are all under the floor, right? I didn't have a tape measure, but the hull looked much deeper than the inside of the boat to the floor. That's not to say the interior wasn't deep; the hull was just REALLY deep. If the tanks are all underneath the floor, they are probably about a foot thick?

The freeboard on that boat seems HUGE. I thought my Tige was tall, but the Epic really seemed monsterously tall. We took a minute at the end of the session to fill all of the ballast tanks up, just to see what the wake was like at wakeboarding speeds and the boat sinks into the water several inches - I want to say 6, but that's probably an exaggeration. It's noticeable, though.

The Enzo, creates a secondary lip also. The attached is a picture from the NorCal INT League wakesurfing series Stop 3 which was pulled by an Enzo. If you look closely, you can see where that lip starts and cuts the face in half.



The folks at Inland Surfer which, are probably some of the best Enzo wave making folks around, weight theirs with the Enzo Sac (1,200+ pounds) and then also pull at 12+ mph. Somewhere in here, there is a picture of Marc's Enzo and when he pulls at 10mph +/- he gets that same secondary lip on his Enzo. So...I'm thinking that on the Epic we had TOO much weight in it - as Deniis points out - how funny that you have to use LESS than the stock factory ballast - AND I think you'll need to run it faster, relatively speaking, probably in the 12+ mph range.

Hey Dennis, the pictures we were talking about this morning. The first picture is with just a slight turn and you can see there is a pretty substantial secondary lip on the starboard side, not as bad as on the port side with the bow weight, but it effectively cuts the wake height in half, here. Compared with the second pic where I had James turn the boat HARD to the right. If you look at the trailing white wash you can see the incidence of the angle of the turn is significantly greater in the second pic, with the cleaner face.




As I was watching the formation of this lip, it eminates from the peak of the tetrahedrahl (oooh, I sound so scholarly! ) formed by the right angles of the gunnels and transom. I'm not really sure how you "soften" that - perhaps with less ballast, or like we were doing, turning hard such that this corner is going away from the forces forming the wake.

Or maybe more of a list to send it to the top of the face. I've found that if the wake is significantly better when turning towards the rider, more list to that side will usually do the same thing.

could that secondary lip be where the platform is cutting into the water?

The swim deck was out of the water by about 3 inches...that was the first thing I checked too, it's that back corner of the boat, you can see it dragging in the water and this huge "gouge" coming out that then makes up the secondary lip. I would agree with you too Trace, that an additional list would correct the problem, IF we didn't have that steepness issue. The wake is plenty tall, but overly steep already, typically I find that adding additional weight towards the rear increases the steepness. If you look above at the one picture where I am riding backside at the top of the wake - it's almost a vertical drop off!

I know this sounds weird, but I think we actually need to reduce weight. If you can imagine, take the corner of a shoe box and point it so that you have one of the corners sort of slashing through the air - THAT is what the rear of the Epic is doing. I think we can mellow that out with "some" ballast in the front and a little less in the back. It seems counter-intuitive though, doesn't it?

Very cool to see you guys figuring out the WakeSurf on this boat I know Adam (our VP of Marketing) has surfed it a bit but probably only a hand full of times and I have surfed it even less because it always seems like we are in a rush to test something and then go work on it every time I get out Such is life I guess...Your review is noted and we are working to quiet the exhaust and add a bit more adjustability in the transom to clean up both sides of the wave or wake(this TOP Secret add-on will be unveiled at Surf Expo in September). Anyways, I happy to get some feedback on the surf and am open ears to any more suggestions or comments. It is going to be a fun summer here at Epic but it will be an even better Fall when we really kick this stuff into HIGH gear......and Thanks for taking the time to write out your thoughts Jeff

Hey Chris, good to see you on the Wakesurfing forum. For those of you not familiar, Chris is the man behind the boat and the company.

In regards to the TOP SECRET add-on, is it designed to adjust the wakeboarding wake, or the wakesurfing wake? Or do you feel it can affect both? Multiple trim tabs, perhaps?

While I'm at it. Can you effect an outward angle on the gunnels of about 5 degrees from 90, and round that bottom rear corner out, please? Is there a reason for the rather vertical gunnels? Does it produce a better wakeboarding wake?

Hmm, you mean the gunnel walls or side walls? I thought gunnels were the top rails on the boat? But I have never been good with all those nautical terms... This boat was built with some overriding themes that made their way into the design through Fluid Dynamics research. Once the ideas were proven then the design and real Computational Fluid Dynamics(CFD) began. This boat was design purely for wakeboarding and unfortunately the wakesurf was more of an after thought. One problem was that when I first started designing this boat, almost five years ago now, wakesurfing and wakeskating were not really on the map yet. And I'm sure I could have ran some test to more accurately predict how the surf would look out of this boat but I don't think the result would have given me any direction on tweaks to improve the surf. The problem with CFD, at least when I was using it 5 years ago, was that the results could only show you a very small window of fluid action. The wake prediction I used was an amalgamation of several techniques to determine the possibilities 90' back from the transom while only really seeing numbers for about 18"s behind the boat. Hmmm, but now I am babbling...I guess in general we could round out the back corners some but I don't think that would get rid of the step you are seeing. The problem(I think) lies in the fact that at some points you are displacing water with two different running surfaces rather that one. Thats why when you are turning it diverts more of the displacement to the water on the bottom running surface and when you are going straight you are also displacing water with the sidewall and when that water comes back to fill the void it creates that step. But we could have a VERY lengthy discussion on this topic in this post but it is hard to clearly state ones ideas on the matter(and as of now that is all I have is ideas about why this is happening). I am working with some CFD software now on some other automotive and aerospace stuff that I hope to utilize on the 23v sometime soon and if it is quick enough I might just do a surf sim with a couple different running surface possibilities. It could be very interesting. I have had some ideas on different add-on(automatic) devices that could make the surf much different. But without CFD to test or actually making 20 different version to go out and install for some lengthy testing cycles I really have no idea if they are even worth mentioning. Hmmm...maybe one...A WAVE DOZER HAHA you laugh but it could be the next BIG thing...just have to figure out how to not run the surfer over when he falls

O the SECRET stuff - it will be mostly for wakeboard wakes and would be retracted for good surf - well I guess it might help the surf a bit but it probably wouldn't do any more than a couple hundred pounds on on side would...

I love the idea of the dozer, but...I wouldn't want to ride in front of it! Although it certainly could give you the motivation to NOT FALL!

Thanks for the education on CFD.

I think we need to fiddle with the ballast placement. The step was significantly worse with the bow ballast completely filled. I also think we had it overweighted. The side ballast at 1,300 +/- pounds is HUGE for a 3,000 pound boat when wakesurfing.

If Dennis can talk Dave into letting us use that boat again, I think that I'd like to start with only 1/4 of the ballast on the port side and then run it at 10 or so mph...just to see if that reduces the effect of that step.

Thanks again for dropping in and for the dialog.

Where else, boys and girls, can you actually chat with the designer of a boat AND - I'm presuming the major stockholder! Props to you Chris.

Jeff,
Take a look at the pictures of the wake in the other thread on boats. There is not the rooster tail that we saw when we tried it loaded at wakeboard speed. I wonder if the prop wash could have been causing the feature at wakesurfing speed. I think that the Enzo at the comp had the same problem on the goofy side. What plate adjustments did we make.
I glad that Chris Anthony posted because ultimately he would be the one with the knowledge and equipment to resolve wake issues that we saw and you described so well.

cfd has come a long, long way in the last 5 years....especially in the free surface world. 5 years ago, free surface models (where water meets air like on boats) were just starting out in terms of commercially available software. But with today's computers and advancements in software, it would be really easy to build a model that incorporated enough mesh density 90' downstream of the boat to accurately capture a wake profile.....but hey that is just my opinion

Chris, what software are you using?

Hey Dennis, in my experience when you really load a boat down you get that huge prop wash. I wasn't suprized to see that when we had a 3.5 ton boat I think that the capacity of that boat for ballast doesn't mean you HAVE to use it all, like we did while fiddling with the wake. However, if there is something about the build of this boat that isn't quite up to specification, that certainly COULD create a problem.

When I was out riding the port side, that left rear corner was basically dragging in the water and creating the start of the secondary lip or as Chris referred to it, the step.

Boats with a more rounded treatment of this uummm, what "joint"? produce a less pronounced "gouge" into the water.

The original boat for wakesurfing, Centurion's "Wave" was rounded - almost like a sailboat hull. If you've ever seen the wake behind a silboat, it has an amazing transition. It would be perfect for surfing if you could build it high enough.

I know it sounds weird, Dennis, but we had a solid wake, it was never really frothy where you'd want to add more weight and the turn wasn't required to clean up the face due to mushy, only to redirect that step to the top of the lip. I think we were just over zealous We are used to pumping 1,300 pounds into my Tige, but my boat weighs almost 1,500 pounds more than the unballasted Epic. It needs more ballast to develop the list.

The exaggerated height and steepness of the wake we developed with the Epic, I believe, was as a result of TOO much ballast. I think that if we can reduce the port ballast and add JUST a touch of bow ballast we'll get a suitable wake - or not. Either way it'll be fun trying.

The attached picture of a '97 Centurion wave shows what I was trying to describe above. Can you see the bottom rear corners? They were rounded off. From the picture of the side it looks like this "rounded" treatment extended up towards the bow to just past the engine box.




We "expiermented" out on the boat yesterday at wakesurf speeds and in the pool in the backyard (strictly scientific you understand ). A box corner drug through the water produced the worst wake from a subjective wakesurfing perspective.

Opening up the angle such that the corner wasn't 90 degrees helped. It seemed to reduce the depth that the corner was "pushed" into the water and so minimized that "gouge".

A void in the corner, like for spray pockets, seemed to produced a pretty good wake, but only when combined with the opened up angle and finally the rounded corner with an opened up angle seemed to produce the best combination of smooth transition and height - well at least in 1/100th scale

Jeff,
What did the wake on the rubberducky look like? Any pics of the test?

Dennis no rubber duckies, just scientific grade boxes, cups and tubes

Jeff- What rope are use using? I need to pick up a new one. Thanks.

Hey Dan, I have a T-handle rope that I pocked up from Shoreline Lakeboards, (thanks for the recommendation John Boy Holmes). However they don't carry it any longer. I noticed that Liquid Force manufactures one that is almost identical. The T-handle fits folks with LARGE and SMALL hands and provides all the safety features of no handle at all.

Jeff, I really appreciate all the info you have provided. As you may recall, Im the Ventura surfer (and also a CPA!) who has wakesurfed 3 times. The surf is flat again and now I want to buy a boat. One big question for you. If you were buying your first boat today specifically for wakesurfing and price was no object, what would you buy? (Im favoring the Epic or 247)

Hey Jim, long time no hear. How have you been?

If money were NO object, I'd have a custom yacht built. 120 foot long, fulltime staff - head high wake and the pocket would be 40 feet long
Plus a Bell Ranger to take me to and from home or office to the boat.



I'm guessing you were thinking wakeboard boat?

I like a TON of stuff about the Epic, but as yet, I haven't seen or ridden a stellar surf wake on it...so for the time being, the Epic wouldn't make my list.

I like the wake the Enzo tosses with ballast and speed. I also think the Tige 24V (not the Ve) tosses a good wake and does so on both sides. Yet, I also think that Centurion is more focused on wakesurfing than any other manufacturer.

I'd take the Centurion or the Tige over the Malibu - again if it's ONLY for wakesurfing.

I think I would have both of those boats. The Centurion with a ton of ballast and ONLY for the port side. I'd run it at 13mph and NEVER attempt to surf the starboard side.

For those more mellower days, I'd use the 24V, always have 14 crew to jump in the boat at a moments notice and allow folks to surf the darkside, as well as the port side. Although it would require custom sacs and custom reversible pumps also.

Just my 2 cents I believe the Tige doesn't give quite the surf wake as the Centurion, but does provide a more consistent wake on BOTH sides than the Enzo.

Jeff, thanks for the quick response. The surf at Rincon has been great this year so Im doing good. All 3 times I went wakesurfing, I came back the next day and surfed the small ocean waves better than I could before! So I see wakesurfing as a training tool in addition to being fun. Hope to get a chance to surf behind an Enzo. Your pictures behind your Tige look good too.

Dad I cant believe you posted a picture of the white yacht without telling Dennis about it. All you have told him about is the red and blue yachts.

(Message edited by surfkid on July 17, 2006)

I wasn't thinking was, I?!

Jeff,
You holding out on me?

No Dennis! Really, we have NO YACHTS...wait, let me try that again with better inflection. Really, we have NO yachts!

I noticed two rudders. Does that help with steering?

Hey Hunter, Dennis and probably my son James can confirm this also, I found the steering to be very light and nimble. Although I mostly drove the boat at 10-15 mph. I found it to be very precise, bordering on twitchy until you got used to it. It also allowed the boat to reverse in a straightline AND there was some ability to steer the boat while backing up...I don't want to mislead you, it wasn't like you could do figure 8's in reverse, but unlike most inboard boats, backing up was accurate.

Hey Dennis, you looked like you spun a HARD right when you were taking the boat back - how would you describe the steering at speed?

Jim,

Centurion is releasing a 24FT version of the Enzo. Something you may want to consider...

Is the 24 foot boat going to happen? It was a rumor last year, but the 23 Typhoon came out instead.

I have one. It's amazing!

Mark, I think that Jeff Page is one of two principle Inland Surfer owners, are you the other one?

I hate being a CPA at times, makes me all anal about terminology. Inland Surfer is a LLC and the owners are referred to as members I would have EXPLODED if I didn't note that correction! Isn't it just Jeff and his wife?

Back to Mark and the 24...amazing! I'd think I was in the Boats forum those guys are lunatics about their boats. Anyway Aamzing! Doesn't mean anything - show us the pictures. Show me a starboard side wake too, otherwise it isn't AMAZING it'll be good, I'm sure, but amazing requires both sides from the same boat.

Not a CPA here, but engineers can be just as anal, it can be hard listening to the marketing guys incorrectly describe your work to client. Take a breath...

The Epic handled very well during the time I drove it which was most of the time without riders. It was a little touchy in the steering but seemed to track straight well. During a hard turn the boat responded as well as my Sanger V215 which I consider a great handling boat. I think in the Boat forum thread I think those drivers felt the steering was a little off. It did back very well.

Jeff and Debbie Page own Inland Surfer. I do most of the marketing communications, PR and help with business development.

We both have 24ft Enzos and sorry Jeff we only ride the regular side. I've never even weighted starboard. Check out www.inlandsurfer.com for pics of the wake. We'll be getting more boat pics up there soon.

And, when I say AMAZING, I'm talking about the whole package. The boat is huge which makes it easy to bring a bunch of friends without tripping over each other. We can weight the boat so it throws a massive wake (we can easily ride 20FT back) without making it ride too low (or unsafely) in the water. The 6.2L Black Scorpion has power and torque for days. Lastly, the fit and finish on the boat is top notch. The boat has everything you need without being over-complicated or busy.

Mark, now I know why you traded up to the 24' Enzo!! Will that be the boat used at the Worlds? How can I get a Demo? I just bought a ShredStix Extreme because the last guy who took me wakesurfing didnt like my waxxy surfboard, and I didnt like his dinky wake. I need to go with someone who knows how to make a clean surfable wake. Jeff, Mark, Anybody - help!

Jim,

I'm not sure which boat they will have at worlds. My guess is it will be the 24. If you are up in the Seattle area, I'd be happy to take you out for a surf. Otherwise, just check with your local dealer. Not sure how many of them have boats yet though.

So Jeff you're saying the Epic is best suited for skimstyle goofyfoot riders?

LOL in a lake that ONLY allows HARD clockwise rotation. I wonder how big that market is?

In all fairness, we only messed with the ballast for about forty minutes to an hour and rode for another hour or so. I think that if we had the better part of the day we could have dialed in the wake better. One of the bigger issues was our over-zealous nature, we had access to all that ballast and we really were "ballast pigs" in every sense.

I think the boat has some potential, but it's going to take someone messing with it for a goodly period of time to wring all of the potential out of it. I was hoping that you could weight the boat strictly using the internal ballast, but I don't believe that is possible, I think some strageically placed sac's will be necessary and to ME, that discounts one of the biggest "potential" features. That is to say if you could buy the Epic and fill the stock port ballst to say 60% and surf a well defined wake, then it would be, IMO, hands down the best boat available for wakesurfing. I don't see that as being possible. I think it's going to be like every other boat where you have to load sac's in specific locations, toss pumps overboard or plumb an aftermarket sac into your existing system. I guess if that becomes the case, for wakesurfing, the Epic becomes a "me too".

However, if we can develop an overhead wake that has a relatively decent ramp, maybe that makes it standout.

Jury is still out, in my book.

Jeff,
Looks like Sat, after we both get back,all day with the Epic. Should be able to play with it till we get it right.

Keep us informed how your testing goes. You have no idea how obsessed I am in finding a boat with a decent goofy wake. (I emailed Chris to see about doing some surf testing down here but I don't think he took me seriously.)

Sean, bring your Walzers up here and go out with us on Saturday.

Dennis, I'm down - sheesh, I'm not liking the way that sounds. I have put that date on my calendar and will join you at the lake for testing.

Where are we going with it? Hogan? Folsom?

I'll bring all my sac's this time.