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Old    Tyler (Tyler3ws6)      Join Date: Nov 2015       11-09-2015, 8:05 PM Reply   
Ok I'm new here and new to surfing as well. I wanted see what you guys think is the best DD boat. I was introduced to surfing this year by a friend and I loved it. I live on a lake where they will only allow direct drive boats, but I want to figure out which boat would be best. I would like to stay around 30k on the price. I have read and learned that mc are not the preferred boat for surfing/wakeboarding. I found a nice 09 mc 197 for 26k local it seemed like a good deal. I also have seen the Malibu xti and I really like the seat layout. So what do you guys suggest?
Old    Quinton MacDougall (Aurex)      Join Date: Aug 2014       11-10-2015, 10:23 AM Reply   
Off the top of my head....

Tige 22i <----make sure to get a model with TAPS.
Sanger DXII <---- I currently own a '92.
Sanger DLX <---- Has the same lower hull as the V210.

Direct drives are tough for surfing as they usually have a flatter hull for a better ski wake. There are some DD's out there that have a nice deep v. They are also difficult as storage space is typically lower so less places to stow ballast. Also the layout of the drive train makes it challenging to weight, V-drive has a nice advantage over DD as the motor/tranny is shifted to the very back of the boat.

Good luck.
Old    Trayson Harmon (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013       11-10-2015, 10:27 AM Reply   
You could look at a Supra Launch Direct Drive as well as a MB Sports B52 when they were made as direct drives.
Old    Tyler (Tyler3ws6)      Join Date: Nov 2015       11-10-2015, 5:19 PM Reply   
Ok thanks for the input. I am quickly learning that DD and surfing really don't mix. I don't think the boat has to make a really impressive wake since I'm a beginner. I wish they allowed v drive here but they don't so I'll look into the boats mentioned above. There are several wake setters on the lake this year. How are they in comparison to the Tige? I learned behind a friends moomba, we had 2 fat sacks on the surf side and it had the rub rail at water level. He can surf fine behind it no rope and 360s.
Old    Trayson Harmon (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013       11-10-2015, 5:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler3ws6 View Post
Ok thanks for the input. I am quickly learning that DD and surfing really don't mix. I don't think the boat has to make a really impressive wake since I'm a beginner. I wish they allowed v drive here but they don't so I'll look into the boats mentioned above. There are several wake setters on the lake this year. How are they in comparison to the Tige? I learned behind a friends moomba, we had 2 fat sacks on the surf side and it had the rub rail at water level. He can surf fine behind it no rope and 360s.
You can surf behind almost anything. the 3 biggest variables are:
1) Rider Skill
2) Board
3) Boat/Wave

a really skilled rider on a nice fast board can compensate for a smaller wave. With people adding surf systems (like ghetto gates) it can help some. On my 92 Supra Sunsport DD, I was able to add a manual surf system that was similar to the Nautique Surf System and it was pretty darn good for a direct drive. so modifications can be made.

You could also take a direct drive and add a surf system like the Go Surf Assist that Wakemakers now sells and get a better result.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ESEQsQUc7A
Old    Aric Brabec (aricsx15)      Join Date: Jan 2014       11-10-2015, 6:39 PM Reply   
Malibu sunsetter LX
1999+ Mastercraft 205V

+1 on gosurfassist. Great guy and great product. Have the system on my 2011 x25.
Old    Dustin Yost (dyost)      Join Date: Jan 2007       11-10-2015, 8:48 PM Reply   
Supra Launch DD would be better than the Prostar 205 and Wakesetter DD mentioned. Much deeper freeboard.

And like Trayson says, you can surf behind anything. In theory the same hull (V-drive vs. direct drive) should make the exact wake/wave if you can get the weight in the right place. No question, you lose convenience with bags all over the floor in a DD, but I think it's inaccurate to say DD's can't make a wake/wave.

Not a big surf guy, but when crappy out I can make it work behind my 89 Supra Sunsport DD.
Old    Aric Brabec (aricsx15)      Join Date: Jan 2014       11-10-2015, 10:27 PM Reply   
freeboard has literally nothing to do with wakes. Ive put over 4k of wake boarding ballast in both the 205 and sunsetter LX with 0 issues

pics of older supra surf wakes here. sub par at best, no offense trayson.
http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=802354
Old    Dom Strauss (domstrauss)      Join Date: Jul 2014       11-10-2015, 10:49 PM Reply   
You should look into the Malibu Wakesetter xTi's. They were never all that desirable so you should be able to pick a nice one up that is in your price range. They also share the same hulls as the Wakesetters so it should be able to throw out a decent surf wake.
Old    r33pwrd            11-11-2015, 8:54 AM Reply   
Never heard of DD only lake? Any idea why?
Old    Ryan Black (EchoSkis)      Join Date: Mar 2015       11-11-2015, 5:06 PM Reply   
From first hand experience you will be disappointed in the 197's surf wake. It is a great slalom boat boat but won't cut it for surf. If you had to have a mastercraft I would go for the 205, 209 or the 214. Otherwise the other options mentioned are worth checking out.
Is the reason your lake only allows direct drives because it is a 3 event lake?
Old    Dustin Yost (dyost)      Join Date: Jan 2007       11-11-2015, 8:01 PM Reply   
Aric,

Agree... freeboard has nothing to do with wake/wave. My point was for surfing, a higher freeboard boat will allow you to run much more ballast, being comfortable that you won't swamp the boat. That does make a better surf wake.

The PS 205 and Wakesetter have better wake boarding wake (shape) than my Supra.
Old    Tyler (Tyler3ws6)      Join Date: Nov 2015       11-11-2015, 9:14 PM Reply   
I like the xti, it seems to be laid out nicely. The lake is a reservoir and was man made so they have restrictions. Outboard 115hp max and inboard 185hp max. I don't really understand it but ski boats have a way around it. So if it is a ski boat it has no hp restrictions. There specs of a ski boat are a center mounted engine, single driveshaft, and has to be controlled by a rudder. We have prob 5 other big lakes within an hour or so but I want a boat that can be used at home of course. I don't know what 3 event means.

Last edited by Tyler3ws6; 11-11-2015 at 9:18 PM.
Old    Ryan Black (EchoSkis)      Join Date: Mar 2015       11-11-2015, 9:37 PM Reply   
3 event means slalom, trick and jump. They are the three events for a water ski competition. Most 3 event lakes require direct drive boats. I asked because if it was a 3 event lake you probably wouldn't be allowed to run any ballast either.
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       11-11-2015, 10:37 PM Reply   
Sanger D215 (OK, a little bias here, but well placed). Malibu 247 RX would be great, but hard to find. The 23 xti or the 21 xti. Svfara sv 609. Sanger DLX. Tige 22i.
You are better getting any of these than a ski boat like a 197.
The 247 is huge and can take an enormous ballast load but is probably still over 30k. All the rest you can find in good shape for under 30.
Old    Trayson Harmon (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013       11-12-2015, 10:57 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by aricsx15 View Post
freeboard has literally nothing to do with wakes. Ive put over 4k of wake boarding ballast in both the 205 and sunsetter LX with 0 issues

pics of older supra surf wakes here. sub par at best, no offense trayson.
http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=802354
LOL. No worries. I sold the Supra. I mean, it's a 1992 boat that was made before wakesurfing and v-drives were mainstream.

And like mentioned earlier, freeboard matters in it effects how much ballast you can realistically run. Try running 3k or more in a low freeboard supra comp or ski centurion. Not gonna happen without taking water on board.



One thing that the OP should mention to us is the amount of MONEY he's willing to spend. most people that opt for DD's are doing so because they really love to slalom or because of MONEY. most of the people on this site that have DD's would swap them in a heartbeat for V-drives if money was no object. so most the time we're recommending DD's it's because the person wants to have a boat that can surf, but on a budget.
Old    Tyler (Tyler3ws6)      Join Date: Nov 2015       11-12-2015, 7:19 PM Reply   
I'm confused did you read the original post? It says I would like to stay around 30k. It's not set in stone I would spend 40 if I found a boat that I just loved. Secondly i have to have a DD boat because they only allow them on the lake I live on. No v-drives are allowed or I would be in the market for a v-drive.
Old    Trayson Harmon (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013       11-12-2015, 7:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler3ws6 View Post
I'm confused did you read the original post? It says I would like to stay around 30k. It's not set in stone I would spend 40 if I found a boat that I just loved. Secondly i have to have a DD boat because they only allow them on the lake I live on. No v-drives are allowed or I would be in the market for a v-drive.
I did miss the part where you said your target price. My bad.


I completely understand why you have to have a DD. My point was that most the time people are recommending DD's from a budget perspective. from a "I can't afford a Vdrive perspective". that's NOT you and it makes your inquiry honestly really, really unique.

There are very few people that have ever come onto wakeworld saying they want a $30k DD for surfing. Honestly, you're the only one I've ever seen asking about this scenario, so it's pretty unique.

Hope you get some good ideas though.
Old    S. R. (stingreye)      Join Date: Oct 2012       11-12-2015, 8:23 PM Reply   
I think the Tige 22i has a larger beam and a little more freeboard than other dd s. I have seen some pics of what looks like a very good wave on the 22i. Look for pics from user nickypoo on Tige forums. He has his dialed.
Old    Tyler (Tyler3ws6)      Join Date: Nov 2015       11-13-2015, 12:50 AM Reply   
I appreciate all the replys before this I had never heard of a Tige and a couple others. I now feel comfortable about what boats I'm looking at. I've always been in to riding stand up jet skis so this is a new adventure for me. Are there any other good websites for boat sales besides boat trader?
Old    Tim (dezul)      Join Date: Jul 2012       11-13-2015, 8:08 AM Reply   
Onlyinboard.com and Craigslist are your best bet.
Old    Matt (That_Guy)      Join Date: Aug 2015       11-13-2015, 8:33 AM Reply   
Have you considered moving?
Old    J-Rome B (hypripper)      Join Date: May 2002       11-13-2015, 9:53 AM Reply   
I'm always surprised when people ask about direct drives nobody ever recommends the old air and pro air nautiques. Idk how well they surf but I know with some weight in them they wakes can be top notch.

Last edited by hypripper; 11-13-2015 at 9:56 AM.
Old    FENCE SENCE (fence_sence)      Join Date: Jul 2008       12-29-2015, 2:43 PM Reply   
Tige 22i. 2000 was by far the best year. 2001 saw the intro of the newer 22i which just wasn't very cool. The pre-2000 models (2150) had an older helm that kinda sucked. The transom shape is very, very similar to the new Nautiques except that the Nautiques have two "spray pockets" where the old Tige has only one and obviously the Nautiques have miles of freeboard.

The surf wake on the 22i has perfect shape. Nice and wide with a long, smooth transition. If you can get the rubrail in the water, it can be pretty big. It loves weight in the back. I did some fairly major mods to mine. I reconfigured the trunk and had some custom sacs made.

Thread on TO-

http://www.tigeowners.com/forum/show...light=NICKYPOO

That was several years ago and I have since worked on the set up. I generally run both sides full (~900#), 11mph, taps 8. The more fatasses you can stuff in the corner the better. Both sides are equally good and you can actually surf both sides at the same time. It's not great yet but, its still a work in progress.

FWIW, I hate the Malibu xti. My uncle has one. The rear section is really uncomfortable if you're over 5ft tall. The wake with just the wedge and the factory front ballast is almost unsurfable. The shape is as bad as it can be. It has zero push and zero transition. It goes from flat to nearly vertical in about six inches. I'm sure somebody has some sort of setup for one but, out of the box, they suuuuuck for surfing.
Old    Brian Stroup (bstroop)      Join Date: Apr 2005       12-29-2015, 5:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by r33pwrd View Post
Never heard of DD only lake? Any idea why?

My guess would be that homeowners associations quickly begin to dislike G23s with extra ballast swamping their decks and smashing their boats into their private docks.
Old    FENCE SENCE (fence_sence)      Join Date: Jul 2008       01-02-2016, 2:48 PM Reply   
Found another pic. I think we had bled off 100lbs or so from the starboard sac. I have also trimmed the corners off the platform. That was a big improvement.
Attached Images
 
Old    Tyler (Tyler3ws6)      Join Date: Nov 2015       01-03-2016, 5:23 PM Reply   
I have never been in an xti so it's good to hear opinions. I wonder if the xti had a good bit of weight in the rear it would make a big difference. What year is your uncles xti?
Old    FENCE SENCE (fence_sence)      Join Date: Jul 2008       01-03-2016, 5:36 PM Reply   
I believe it's an '06. It's not setup for surfing at all. At the time he bought it he was really into foiling and slalom. That's it. It's nice for those but surfing has never been of any interest to him and that's fine. It's worked really well for his needs and he loves it dearly.
Old    Tyler (Tyler3ws6)      Join Date: Nov 2015       01-21-2016, 5:49 PM Reply   
Well I bought a 08 23xti today thanks for the help
Attached Images
 
Old    Dustin Yost (dyost)      Join Date: Jan 2007       01-21-2016, 6:26 PM Reply   
Nice,

I do like the layout on those XTIs. No to probe on what you paid... but know you were in the market recently and curious how the 23 xti would have compared to a 23 lsv. Do you think you got a deal buying the DD version or do you think the money would have been equal had you been able to put a DD on your lake. If you shopped 21s, any info on how the 21 xti compared to a similar year's 21 vlx?
Old    Art (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       01-21-2016, 8:49 PM Reply   
That yellow is going to look great on the water Tyler, Congratulations.
Old    Tyler (Tyler3ws6)      Join Date: Nov 2015       01-21-2016, 10:30 PM Reply   
I think the dd's are definitely more rare. I had to drive 1000 miles to get it but I really wanted the 08 and there was one in the country that I could find. I think I could have found a cheaper boat if I had more to choose from but oh well. It has some wet sound speakers and amps which is a plus.
Old    Curtis Hunter (PotatoShack)      Join Date: Aug 2013       01-22-2016, 6:56 AM Reply   
This is from my old 96 Malibu sunsetter DD.
Old    Trey (Treybiz)      Join Date: Nov 2014       01-22-2016, 8:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypripper View Post
I'm always surprised when people ask about direct drives nobody ever recommends the old air and pro air nautiques. Idk how well they surf but I know with some weight in them they wakes can be top notch.
We surfed my 00 Pro Air a little last summer and the wave wasn't terrible. Few of the girls really liked surfing so I'm going to try the skateboard ramp thing this spring. It's not really my cup of tea but it's fun for them and a good option when the water is crap.
Old    doug rose (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       01-22-2016, 9:12 AM Reply   
the xti is really good choice, probably the best option you could get. put a aftermarket gate on it and a ton of weight it will be the best dd out there
Old    Tyler (Tyler3ws6)      Join Date: Nov 2015       01-24-2016, 7:17 AM Reply   
What gate do you recommend?
Old    FENCE SENCE (fence_sence)      Join Date: Jul 2008       01-31-2016, 10:37 AM Reply   
Congrats on the boat. I'd love to see what kind of wave you can get out of it and what your setup is.

I think I'm going to start messing with the suction cup gates on my boat.
Old    Tyler (Tyler3ws6)      Join Date: Nov 2015       12-30-2016, 6:36 PM Reply   
i just thought about updating this post. Sorry for waiting so long. I'll have to say I'm very happy with my dd xti. I bought a fat sac that weighs 900lbs and it goes in the compartments on the port side of the boat. It really works out great the sac is completely hidden and not using any floor space. I guess no one takes pictures of me but here is a pic of the wake and a pic of my wife and her friend, for some reason they like to double surf. I think I could use Some weight in the front to make the wake longer but for now it is good for us.[ATTACH]Name:  IMG_3223.jpg
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Old    Nathan Gort (TNwakeboarder86)      Join Date: Sep 2016       01-03-2017, 7:52 AM Reply   
that is pretty awesome wake, I just bought a 04 VLX, love the Malibu. I also bought the 1100 lb fat sac, I am hoping my wake is as great as yours!
Old    Jon Chase (WakeSurf22)      Join Date: Dec 2016       01-09-2017, 7:47 PM Reply   
Wow, nice wave!!
Old     (Kevin123)      Join Date: Jul 2017       07-25-2017, 1:07 PM Reply   
Hi! Im new to wakeworld and plan on buying my first inboard. I'm looking for a direct drive for strictly wakesurfing. I heard the heavier the boat is (less ballast then) and the deeper the v in the hull the better the wake we'll be... I think either an old tige such as a 21i or 22i would be good because there heavy boats and don't have a totally flat hull (any other direct drives that are heavier and have a deeper v then them?). What dd would be better than an old tige? Let me know if you've surfed any old direct drives with success? Budject under 15k with a little wiggle room.

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