Upgraded Alternators

Where can I get an upgraded alternator (200A) that is a direct replacement for my stock 51A alternator on my L-18 on my 2002 X-30?

Good Question!
Most us know about the Blamar HO alternators
www.balmar.net I have one and love it. They are a bit pricy if your on a budjet. I was just recentley asked if there was a less expencieve alternatave?

What are other people using. What are you paying for H.O marine alternators? And how are they working out for you?

I have a 140amp alternator from dbelectrical.com, they're more practical in terms of price and are top notch guys to deal with. I'd recommend checking into them, they can build you whatever you need.

(Message edited by Sinkoumn on July 19, 2007)

I don't think (could be wrong but i doubt it) any 200A alt will be a direct replacement! You will need to upgrade wiring at the very least.

I upgraded to the 100amp alternater through db electrical. I should also note that I spent a couple hours using a dremel on the mounting bracket as it wasnt an "exact" fit.

Anytime your running a high amp alternator its good to run a piggyback wire from the B+ to the starter. This is what I read / was told.

Tr is right about the wiring for sure. Also you can have a starter/alternator shop add windings to your current starter and get up to 140amps for less then a new high out put alternator.

Scott's got the ticket. On my Sport I was quoted $150-$200 to rewind. The guys at the electrical shop said it would put out 100 amps +/-. He did say that he could wire it for more output but then you would get into heat issues with the alternator... too much heat and you will be looking at premature alternator failure.

Does your engine use a serpentine belt or the traditional V belt?

200 amps will require way more torque than a single V belt can provide. If you tighten the belt so tight that it doesn't slip it won't live long and the side load could wear out the bearings. If the belt also drives your water pump you could create a lot of problems for yourself.

The general rule of thumb is that 100 amps is the max for a single belt. I know a lot of people who run up to 140 amps and seem to get away with it. 200 would definately be pushing it. The usual fix for this is to change the pulleys, go to a double on the alternator and add one more to the engine so you can have two belts around the alternator.

You may not need 200 amps, however. If you get a high output 100 amp alternator you will double the capacity of the alternator you currently have. Many of the high output alternators are also designed to provide more at a lower RPM so you will get a lot more charge at idle speeds.

Unless you have a really, really large battery bank you don't want to charge your batteries at 200 amps. The excessive current will shorten their life span.

If you select an alternator that has an external regulator you have the option of using a "smart" mult-stage regulator. A smart charger on a 100 amp alternator will probably provide you faster battery charging than a 200 amp single wire alternator.

Rod

I am currently running a 101A alternator (at least that is what the shop that rebuilt it states is the maximum output). My problem is I am only getting 12.3 V charge at idle and 12.7-12.8 V at running speed. I have a middle of the road stereo that runs from 2 Optima Blue Top Gel Cell batteries. I also have a standard lead acid battery for the starting or "house" battery. Between the 2 "banks" of batteries there is a 200A relay that disconnects the batteries when the ignition is turned to the off or ACC position. Either the alternator is not putting out 101A or the pulley is slipping or I need a bigger output.

The L-18 has a single serpentine, 6-groved belt that is slightly over 3/4" wide.

Regarding wiring, yes, all the wiring (pos and ground) has been upgraded to 4 AWG wire.

The shop that did the alternator upgrade originally put a external regulator that you could dial in the voltage, unfortunately, it would not work because it was too big and hit a part of the engine. There is not alot of room to work with on this engine because it is so big.

Thoughts???

Thanks everyone for the feedback so far.

PS - The stereo is running a Kicker KX600.1 (rated at 720W max. at 2 ohms) and a KX850.4 (rated at 1,000W max. at 2 ohms). My sub is running in 2 ohm mode and so are all 4 channels of the KX850.4

Tom I know you said a shop did the alternator for you but 12.3-12.8V is pretty low. I would get it tested out of the boat and then if it puts out more look into the belt tension and other areas of the drive. My alternator is pushing 13.4-14.2. Just thoughts. Good luck!

Scott -

I just did some additional testing last night. Here are the results.

Idle (750rpm): voltage on engine battery 12.65V); stereo batteries (2 D34M Optima Blue Tops) 12.70V, Stinger Distribution Blocks for stereo 12.55V

1,500rpm: voltage on engine battery 14.05V, stereo batteries 13.95V, Stinger Distribution Blocks 13.95V

2,500rpm: voltage on engine battery 14.05V, stereo batteries 13.95V, Stinger Distribution Blocks 12.95V.

I am narrowing down my problem. I was out over the weekend and noticed that my 4 channel Kicker (KX850.4) used to power the interior and tower speaker (4 pairs of component speakers) would cut out when a big bass note was played thru the sub. My guess is that the sub amp is robbing the 4 channel amp of enough battery voltage and forcing it to shut down.

I do not have a Cap on the sub amp. Do I need one?

The alts from dbelectrical.com are all hand wound delco cases. They put out very good power and have a great warranty/return policy. Give Ron a call.

Tom, try to find a smaller pulley. The alt probably is not turning at a high enough RPM. It is very easy to get a new smaller pulley if you have a single v-groove. Caps are a band aid, and will not fix the issue you are having. A proper charging system will not require a cap.

Rod excessive current rating will not cause a short life span. Excessive voltage will, but extra current rating will not do anything. Alternators have a regulator that prevents current when it isn't required, IE you can't overcharge a battery....batteries have a charge discharge rate as a design of the battery, the rate of charging has nothing to do with the charger unless it is low current. Someone had also posted something about too big of an alt frying a computer, which is also wrong. A working alternator will not kill any electronics or cause damage to your electrical system, regardless of the size.

(Message edited by olskooltige on July 30, 2007)

MAKE SURE YOU ARE GETTING A MARINE ALTERNATOR.

I know in cali its a heafty fine per item if caught by the coast guard using automotive parts in a boat.

my local lakes they check boats randomly all the time, I was boarded at the ramp last week and inspected.

Andy, they actually looked at your alternator, starter, and flame suppresor?

Andy - you actually had someone board your boat and ask to see your alternator? Seriously?

If you have your alternator re-wound to get a little higher output, how easy/difficult is the removal and re-installation of the unit? Can you do it yourself?

What is the turnaround time for a place like dbelectrical?

Steve -

I have the smallest pulley I could find for the alternator's shaft diameter.

I believe I have a proper charging system:

Idle (750rpm): voltage on engine battery 12.65V); stereo batteries (2 D34M Optima Blue Tops) 12.70V, Stinger Distribution Blocks for stereo 12.55V

1,500rpm: voltage on engine battery 14.05V, stereo batteries 13.95V, Stinger Distribution Blocks 13.95V

2,500rpm: voltage on engine battery 14.05V, stereo batteries 13.95V, Stinger Distribution Blocks 12.95V.

I think my charging system is working correctly however, I think the sub is pulling too much battery voltage from the system.

Do you think a Cap would solve my problem???

Tom , your system is relatively small. You should be seeing 14.3-.14.4 at yrou battery, not 14.05. A 100 amp alternator should be more than enough for your setup. A cap will not make a noticeable difference. a 600-700 watt sub amp will not pull "too much" from your alt. 2000 rms @ 1ohm...maybe. what is the voltage at the alternator while running on a fully charged battery?

Adam -

I'll check the voltage at the rear of the alternator in a few days. The battery's always ready at least 12.5-12.75V when the boat is off. I don't think they ever go lower than that.

I have the L-18 (496 ci) big block motor in the boat and it does take a little more battery power to turn that thing over. My batteries have never let me down.

Tom-
Try only 1 speaker per channel on your kicker amp.
They are unstable at high volume with more then this. ( I know they say there amp are stable at 2 ohms but there really not in real world applications) I have experienced this same problem with these amps. Disconnect some speakers and rip on it. Hope this helps. If it does try a new Rockford amp, it will not let you down.

Tom:

The fact that you are getting 14.05 volts at one of the batteries and a lower voltage at another indicates two things:

1) A significant current is flowing to cause the voltage drop.

2) The alternator is putting out almost full voltage at the battery.

If this is a single wire alternator then the voltage it sees might be a bit higher than the voltage at the battery during heavy current flow. A standard voltage regulator will start cutting back the alternator output when the voltage exceeds 13.2 volts, and it should reduce the alternator output to a minimum when the voltage reaches 14.2 volts.

If there is another 0.15 volt drop in the wire between the alternator and the battery then the alternator might be nearly shut down! If this is the case then doubling the size of your alternator will do absolutely nothing.

Your first post said you were running a stock 51 amp alternator, but then you said you were running a 101 amp alternator. Did you change it between the 18th and the 21st?

I don't believe that a cap would help your situation at all. If you have adequate voltage at the battery but the amp is shutting down due to insufficient voltage then it is an indication that the wire size is too small.

Steve ----

Optima specifies that there is no current limit on the charge rate. The manufacturers of flooded lead acid batteries say otherwise. Here is a link to the web page for Trojan:

http://www.trojanbattery.com/Tech-Support/BatteryMaintenance/ChargerSelection.aspx

Excessive current will cause heating in the plates of the battery. If the temperature of the battery is closely monitored you can safely drive more current but you must also closely monitor the water level as the temperature and high charge rate will "boil" out the water at a much faster rate.

Charging a "maintenance free" battery at too high a rate can easily overwhelm the battery's ability to recapture the hydrogen/oxygen and result in the loss of water. If the caps are not removable to add water back the battery can be quickly destroyed.


Rod

Rod -

I had a typo in the voltages I am getting at 2,500rpms. The 12.95V reading should really be 13.95V - the same level I am getting at 1,500rpms. Sorry for the confusion. So, between the engine starting battery and the stereo batteries, the difference is only .10V which I could easily attribute to my digital multimeter accuracy.

Regarding wiring - I am running Stinger Pro 1/0 from the two Optima Batteries located by the engine up to the observers area (roughly 15 feet) to where the amps and distribution blocks are located. I then have run Stinger Pro 4 AWG wire from the distribution blocks to the amps (roughly 18 inches max.). Is my wire too small????