best wake challenge

after riding yesterday, we all went out to dinner, and got to talking. inspite of what someone said (a person w/o a boat shouldn't have an opinion on boat wakes, etc.), boat mooches are the best judges when determining which boat/wake is best. not only have boat mooches ridden behind a ton of boats, they don't have ownership goggles on.

so here's what i'm thinking. let's get boats and boat mooches in one lake have them ride all the boats represented. boat owners can weigh their boats down whichever way they think is best for their boats. the boat mooches will ride 'em all and at the end of the day, confer and come up with a conclusion as to which was best.

1. some great mooches would be; me (of course), antbug, thane, daniel, blabelmooch.

1. if you want your boat to place 1st, bring your boat!
a. clubmyke's sv-211
b. troy's, gramp's or frew's san210
c. buzz's or dave's vlx
d. josh's x-2
e. kevin's x-star
f. etc. etc.

maybe we can get the whole channel at elsinore. that way, we can have 2 boats goin' at the same time. each mooch will get to ride each boat, once on the wakeboard side, and once in the ski course side. that way, mooches can say how boats rode in smooth and not-so-smooth conditions.

it may take a whole weekend to do, but hey, it sounds like this could be a fun thing to do. we can make an event of it all by inviting shops, board companies, etc. everyone is invited except for boat company reps and boat shop reps. either way, it sounds like a great way to get socal together for a day/weekend of riding. and at the end of it all, one boat owner can walk away with nothing but bragging rights!

by the way, mooches must not mention as to which boat they voted for. mooches can only state the results after all votes are tallied.

(Message edited by dakid on August 01, 2005)

you might want to define the best wake a little more. Sometimes biggest isn't the best, ie. the wake this last sat. was so big it was scary to try anything off it other than a wtw.

Honestly, what's the point? All of the top end wake boats put out great wakes. Sure people like certain ones better than others, but that's why there's different brands with different wake characteristics.

I really don't think there's such thing as a "best" wake as everyone is different.

That's coming from someone w/o ownership goggles on too because I couldn't afford my favorite wake and went with 2nd best on MY list.

jason, that's why i didn't say "biggest wake." i said "best wake."

stanfield, what's the point? it's all in fun, dude. the way i see it is, if you're not interested, simply don't come.

Sorry Joe, must have miss interpreted it. You should have someone photoing all the participating wakes from the same point in each boat. That way those of us who can't make it can see all the great wakes from that weekend.

I agree, "best" is subjective, but I like your idea. You need to set up some type of scoring system.

BTW, I rode behind a buddies new SV-211 yesterday with only stock ballast and 9 people and it was SAWEEET. By SAWEEET I mean had a perfect mix of transition and vert at the perfect line length (IMO) - 75'.

So, I gave a few scoring criteria but how about (for starters):

1. Transition (ramp)
2. Vert (peak)
3. Trough
4. Width (W2W)

...and then say rate 1-5 for example.

Don't forget the V210 Joe. Get Darren up here from NZ to tweak the wake on one.

IS there really a "best wake"? Every one of the boats listed tosses a fantastic wake, although not the same in shape and/or size. I've ridden behind most- every one had thier good points and bad-

Being a wake mooch I suppose you could care less how the boat handles with added weight, seating layout and power? Or how much the gas costs to pull riders all day???

Oh ya, you can only have a total of (6) boats in the channel- might want to try it at Canyon backwater

I think it would be fun to just get out there and experience other wakes. This includes boat owners. I would love to ride behind a VLX, SANTE, etc.... all in the same day:-) I know a lot of boat owners that don't like to ride behind other boats but insist they have the best wake. Would be fun to try something new....

Have fun. Wish we lived closer!

Ryan - lol. If you guys are gonna fly people in for the challenge, I'd like to be on the list (my boat isn't listed - so no goggles). I'm a self-proclaimed wake expert.

Joe ~ inspite of what you say,I agree with you and I think it would be fun as well.I definetly think mooches have a right to an opinion.

Joe, what will the prizes be? Gotta have stakes!

dear boatwhores.
i would like to join you all and serve as ballast. plus i have mad skills when it comes to experiemtns. i could offer my scientific experience and help validate/check the experimental/control parameters & factors.

thanks in advance for your consideration.

hugs and kisses,
francisca

references available upon request... oh, and nautiques RULE!

(OMG, HELL JUST FROZE OVER)

(Message edited by frankie f on August 01, 2005)

tara, that's where shops/companies can step in. either way...

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and at the end of it all, one boat owner can walk away with nothing but bragging rights!

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quote:

(OMG, HELL JUST FROZE OVER)

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bahahahahhahaha!

cool idea.

How about a side by side wake comparison with pictures taken at an angle where you can compare the two wakes shape, width, etc.

I'm in

It sounds like a great idea !
I think Ant should do another name this wake thread too.

Joe,

Awesome idea. I've ridden most of the boats you've listed and can suggest a few more. I'll contact the owners of those boats first to see if theyre interested. I think there should be some kind of system set up for the analysis as well, because some people prefer different aspects of wakes. I'd love to come participate too (i'm a boat whore, what can I say?) .

-Steve

Hey I want to be a Judge! I'm not afraid to say another wake is better than the one I own. Are boats owners excluded? Is this a firm rule?

From what I understand....mooches only.

I would be in with my boat for sure...thanks for the honorable mention Joe!... But not for the competition....just for the party.

Im in Joe... just give me a time and a place baby..

J-rod, If your boat is not at the lake technically you can be considered a mooch for the day, but for what it's worth, I think boat owners should be allowed to judge as long as they agree to be unbiased.

Also, you can have ten X-2's with different wakes depending on how they are weighted. So unless there are a lot of the same boats weighted differently, how accurate is this comparison going to be?

It's only going to compare a listed boat owners boat against another listed boat owners boat. It's not going to be definitive.

Cool, just give me enough notice so I can start riding again!

There are wakes I have not ridden and to be honest, there are wakes I prefer, but I don't have an absolute favorite.

So is this a regional thing? Or are other area boat whores invited?

Boat mooches have "mooch goggles". These are different from "ownership goggles". These "mooch googles" cause the mooch to be very positive to everyone so as to not offend and to be welcomed back in the boat.

That's not true at all. If your wake sucks, I'm not coming back! Lol!

Hmm...good point.

That's why you should have a bunch of Nor cal riders judging. No chance of offending our regular drivers!

Joe,

I am definitely in...just give me a date so that I can plan my extremely busy social life around it....

After the 15th, I am going to get three fat boys and probably 10 bags of lead. I like the shape the wake had the last time you were out.

Either way, you've got my #.

Jesi

I think this is one interesting idea. Itdefinetly
would be alot of fun, if nothing else to get a chance to meet alot of people we all talk to online. The channel would be probably the best spot except unless you already have the set up for the insurance and Cal. Skier on your ins. that would have to be arranged also ( I heard its
pretty easy to do ). San V. is a possible place also with nothing special to set up , although its a long drive for alot of people. I would def. be in. if this ever comes together for realz.
Sounds like it could be a whole lot of fun.
Laterzzz

sweet! let's see if we can make this happen. we'll set the date as soon as possible to sometime after labor day weekend.

Joe, I would like to know if you are going to stay with the same line length? Plus I think you should throw like the of same 10 tricks in a row then off to the next boat. I think this should also be done at a man made lake were the condtions will not change much. I know many places can get blown out at about 12:00 because wind effects the wake alot.

Hey, didn't I just bring this up in another thread... And you didn't throw the 23v in the mix Joe... Maybe some people don't want a new boat in the running distorting all the results I kid, I kid. But if we have a production boat ready I'd love to stack it against the best in this kind of format. I would be interested in the visual results, as well, and take very accurate pics to post for review. Some people just know what they are looking for in wakes. Some would really like the opinions of those who have been on many different boats. In the end it will come to personal preference, but I know our 23v in freshy fresh water goodness will change some minds on the ranking of BEST WAKES out there...

I'm a boat mooch and proud, however I never have ridden behind a boat for 10 tricks and then been done with it. You gotta have a legit set! Each boat mooch should be able to set their rope length where they ride at, if it needs to be longer then do so. As a rope owning boat mooch the first few jumps are to figure out where I need to be & then from there its game on. Joe, you know I'm a good mooch. Keep me in the know & I'll be there in a heartbeat. Personally I can tell the characteristics that I like. It would be sick to have the boats set up as the owners like it and a bunch of subjective testers come through and evaluate. granted everyone likes somehing different but it sounds like a heck of a lot of fun!!

Umail was throwing this idea around while on the boat last weekend. Great idea, plus an excuse to ride all day.

I'm in, I'll bring the Xstar...may be an 06 by then. Also for those who have finished testing wakes on the boards in which they are comfortable, I'll bring out our complete 06 collection for you all to demo.

Channel for the day: $320. Gas for seven boats: $600
Say there are twenty riders.. $46 each for a private channel, and a set behind the seven heavy hitter wake boats.. No brainer to me.
Maybe early Oct when it cools down to 100 degrees.

Big heavy, I disagree on the rope length. They are looking for the best wake. If you haft to cut harder to get across a wake and it gives you less pop and you need to shorten your rope than there is a problem with the wake. You should set your rope where you normaly ride if you haft to move it than you know eather your getting a killer pop and you need to lighten your cut. A wake should pop you up and make your tricks easyer to do. Some wakes will make you work harder for the trick. Also as for the 10 tricks it should also be a up and back deal. If you can't get a wake diled with in the first few tricks than why even bother fighting it. That means the wake is not to your liking. There need to be rules set for this or its not going to work. One example is when I rode J-rods boat I rode the same length as I ride my boat and I hit my tricks after the first jump. I rode anther friends boat same length and was fighting it and the wake was soft and I moved the rope in. I would say that wake was not as good as J-rods and mine.

I'm down.......I think the SANTE wake will stack up nicely.....in the "freshiest" of fresh water.

rope length is dependent on the rider's preference behind each boat. if we have a set rope length, then count me out. i'm not riding 70-75' behind a san, nor am i riding 85' behind an xstar.

cwb is already steppin' up? where are the rest of the board companies! what what???

(Message edited by dakid on August 01, 2005)

Man, Joe...This might actually turn into something BIG! ;-)

Joe I am all for this and would like to see it happen. Maybe you could determine the gap of each wake and try it that way. Like if a x-star wake to wake is 35 feet across at 75 feet and a SANs is 35 feet at 85. Now that would be a real test if you could do that then you would be able to say yes it is easier to go wake to wake behind a x-star. Because my friends have all different boats and I have just as much fun behind a sanger at 75 as I do behind a BU at 70 because the wake is bigger.

We could also do a "know your wake" test. All riders have to ride blindfolded. Then after their set be able to tell us on which wake they were riding.
Much like the Pepsi/Coke challenge but really dangerous. Maybe we could throw some sliders in there too.

and a kicker.

there is a also wakesurf wake....

Just a thought but wouldn't it be better for the riders\judges ride at the lenght the boat owner set the boat up for the best wake??

Could Buzz or Dave or anyone else with a well loaded VLX pm me please? I'm very interested in what you're running and where you've got it!
thanks in advance

could we add a "best rack" contest too ???

Now were talkin'.

Yea, I know. Look where Buzz jumps into the conversation.

Mike, LOL...

I think it would be interesting to ride doubles w/ a tape measure and get diminsions too, like how wide is the table top. Just a suggestion. Either way, I'm in. How many boats are we lookin' at here? We've already had a couple of the same boats say they're in. What kinda boats should be thrown in the mix?

So far I see we've got:
1 SV-211
2 X-stars
2 X2's
1 SAN
1 Epic 23v...production pending

What else do we need?
New VLX
Old VLX/Vride
Sanger V210 and/or 215
Tige?
Maybe CCC could pull a 220 over?

What other boats? All must be Vdrives, obviously, Stock ballast is not an option (must have more).

BUZZ...HAHAHAHAHA perfect timing

I may have the new X-2 instead of the X.

Buzz,
Why do I think you've been watching this thread, just waiting for the perfect time to jump in. I guess it's pretty much inevitable...

-jesi

daniel- you are so sciencetific...i think pics via antbug and riders comments would be the ticket...

in terms of wake size.... it would go to frew and kevin (my opinion...)

Great, just what I want to ride at 65 feet for some of the boat owners. See Squid the problem lies in this, you ride a VLX at 70 feet well this last weeknd I rode a VLX at 85 feet and was riding at around 25 mph. The test is to have boat hos test the setup they would ride at. I've ridden with PorkChop many times and he rides at a different speed and length I do. Why should I change my ride to someone else's preference? Weight the boat as you wish but don't tell me how long or how fast to ride. I've never had a baot driver do that whilst in the middle of a mooch set.

Mike, the tape measure thing was somewhat of a joke, but I honestly would be interested to find out. I agree, the pics and rider input are key.

Steve, the new X2 looks sweet, but the picklefork won't affect the wake between the X2 and the X1/old X2 right?

Just have the riders pick how they want to ride it. It's all relative. if you have riders at 70', 80', 90', then each wake is being judged at all different lengths and speeds. In the end, the winner will be the most desirable wake at all speeds.

Has there been a date and time established for this event?

Is Blablemooch going to be one of the judges?

I would like to see this event.

J-Rod ~ true that

Frankie, if you are going to be ballast and serve as the brains, maybe you could suggest to them the ideal ballast based on weight and size. Whats heavier than water, obese folks, or lead? Since I doubt you weigh enough to do the ballast job, maybe suggest something better? And if its is isnt safe to put in a fatsack, figure out how to contain it. Then make a mint selling it to wakeboarders and buy Joe whatever boat he wants.

J

If I am not mistaken Daniel, which if you knew me you would know I most always am, the new X-2 is the exact shape of the X, but shrunk a foot and half. That includes hull.
This is coming from a guy who thought Big Heavy was a straight man so... take it for what it's worth.


How about Oct 15-16. Sat the 15th is the test day, Sun the 16th is the: Tie up out in the lake and watch eachother try tricks that they have no chance in making day.

would love to be there to represent the Supra 21V and get someone to represent the 22 and 24 SSV...... Too far away... hope you can get equal representation....
This is actually a boat whores dream.... free rides on all the best boats and the boat owners burn a ••••• load of gas and don't get to ride....I got some local boat whores I could send your way

Hey, how bout B/V in late fall/early winter? No boat traffic, and centrally located....or have the moocherjudges travel to a few locations over a few weekends, to eliminate ride-time issues.

The No-Hos could travel (or not), and ride/visit with other LOCAL boat owners while the judges are werkin'....It wouldn't affect the judging, boat owners aren't inconvenienced, and could still play with the "spectators"....

This sounds like it's geared more to the judges' preferences of what a wake should be like....

BTW, I hear Calabria makes boats too.......

I think BV is too shallow to see the full potential of each wake.

BTW, Umali....Is this some well-oiled scheme between you and the other "judges" to get free rides in trade for a good score????

And I disagree with your "ownership goggle" theory.......I'm sad to say that so far, the most fun boat/wake setup I've been on, was not mine (but I'm workin' on it!).....

Steve, HAHAHAHAHAHA, Stephen just got served!!!
I may not be up to date on all of the rumors, but I thought it was just gonna be the 205V hull w/ a picklefork...it seems that everyone I've talked to has a different idea on what its gonna be.

Not sure what's planned for the rest of this event, but will anyone be allowed to launch and ride? Or are we limiting the boats to the select demo boats?

Blabel----Yes, but unless all the boats are run with no ballast whatsoever, there really is no consistency anyway. Setup, and rider preference will ultimately rule the day, IMO....Umali himself had mentioned to me that he hated and loved a wake from the same boat weighted differently...

This would just make it easier for everyone to see, if it's central, or spread out over a few weekends...

Bates, I hate you, I hate you so very much. At least I fooled one person, wait what? Oh crap, I gotta go...

clubjoe, thanks for the assumption, but at no time did i mention that the mooches (me) would be riding for free.

joe, check your e-mail

Well I would say it is safe to say that everyone
is interested in the idea, so lets put some concrete plans on this.
Place? Date?(s) and definete boats to be there?
One or two day event? , so on and so forth.

kev, this should be a two-day event, don't you think? i mean, that's a lot of boat to test. we could rent the channel (both sides) for both sat and sun. we could all camp out on sat night; eat, drink, hang out, etc.

fyi all, a company contacted me letting me know that they're giving away a prize (worth lots of money) to the winning wake. they don't want me to mention which company/product until we have this set in stone.

hey joe,

can you have dogs on the channel... that would give me another 80 pounds of ballast!!!

Jesi, as far as I know, dogs are allowed in the boat, but they may not have water contact.

Two events sounds like a good idea. How many passes are for sale at the channel for the day and how many shifts? There is the ins. thing we boat owners have to set up to be able to buy the pass from California Skier for the channel, but I have heard is easy. We definetly need a concrete number to make sure all the boats can buy a pass in either one of the two days. Hopefully there are enough shifts and pass available to get all the boats equall time.
Count me in for any sunday that we plan on. Sat's
I have to work.
Here comes the Big x-star !!!!
P.S. I think all owners should keep there weight
configurations silent until the event is over. Kinda keeps it unbiased and such.
What do you all think?

Kev,

Is it too early to request a seat in your boat?

-Blake

2?