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Old     (brodee42)      Join Date: Jun 2015       06-23-2015, 8:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiscxstar View Post
The above was from their ebay listing. This (below) is from their actual website:

http://www.txcars.net/web/new/Master...Texas/1752855/

"2016 Mastercraft Epic 23v Wake Boat NEW Full Fact Epic 23v"

They list the boat as a "Mastercraft" there as well. I hope Mastercraft gets wind of this.

JJ - you should talk with you lawyer about misrepresentation, if the ad for your boat also listed your boat as a Mastercraft. This whole thing just gets worse. Shady dealer! It is hard to believe that Chris is actual backing these guys. I wouldn't trust TAL or Epic to make me a cup of coffee at this point.
Too bad about all this...I hate to say it but I kind of dig that boat! Old school tower but killer stereo system and interior. Epic would have my attention at that price point...but things like this have me looking elsewhere!
Old     (rexlex01)      Join Date: Mar 2010       06-23-2015, 8:14 PM Reply   
Pics of Chris and his wife with the baby or it didn't happen. lol
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       06-23-2015, 8:30 PM Reply   
Perhaps you should be screen shotting the mastercraft parts from the add for your boat, the adds they are running, from their website. Sounds like false advertising. There are protections for consumers & companies who lurk on the uninformed. Someone should be recording them stating the manufacturer is MC.
Old     (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       06-23-2015, 9:06 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by SICKSPEED View Post
Before I bought the boat I read articles reviewing them, I watched videos with pro wakeboarders endorsing it, I read some forum posts with people talking about what they liked and disliked. I saw the turbo diesel version. I read about the hybrid version. Etc, etc.
I didnt read the one about the origin of the company and how it was started. It didnt occur to me that it was as important at the time. When you put it in those terms I also cant tell you who exactly started GM or Toyota or who their major shareholders are either. Sure I could have done more in hindsight.
I figured I could trust brand. Now I dont claim to be the most informed guy on this forum by any means. My last boat was a Yamaha. It was about the 4th boat I`ve owned in my lifetime. My first two were old $1500 outboard ski boats from the 70s, lol. I`m just a guy who likes to surf and wakeboard. Figured I`d stray from the beaten path a little and try a lesser known brand. What can go wrong when you buy new? ( Yes, I was a fool. ) Surely theres people on here far more knowledgeable than me when it comes to boats and what brands are better. I do welcome your input, and I realize I`m learning the hard way.
I feel for you man and I really feel some of the guys are being waaaaaay too hard on you on here. I keep checking a couple times a day hoping that you get taken care of... It is really ridiculous it has gone on this long. I don't nessacarily think epic should just give you a new boat but they def need to overnight you parts and put a tech on a flight to fix all this and at least save face. It's sad because they really are hurting their brand and I remember the first posts where they were getting off the ground and I thought they had a really really good idea that would take off... Looks like this one post Is undoing all those years of building brand equity . Good luck man.
Old     (seth)      Join Date: Sep 2002       06-23-2015, 9:08 PM Reply   
Someone should just post the add on teamtalk. Any TT guys on here?
Old     (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       06-23-2015, 9:13 PM Reply   
I think this is what he was talking about... Is there a mastercraft trailer brand or something??? I see a lot of this on eBay but usually it's after the description, not the first word in the headline. This all sucks because for the money those are some pretty sweet looking boats and I've I always heard they have a great wake. Again, hope they get u taken care of.
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Old     (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       06-23-2015, 9:19 PM Reply   
This might be the most wild thing about this whole ordeal. TAL has an AMAZING feedback rating on eBay
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Old     (cla17)      Join Date: Mar 2002       06-23-2015, 11:10 PM Reply   
I realize the only update that really matters here is the one where Jason's boat is back in the water and functioning and looking the way he expected when he made his purchase but people here seem genuinely interested in any movement sooo...

I talked with Don's Dry Dock(Jason's service shop) yesterday and approved the work to take care of these issues as far as they are capable. The Upholstery damage and trailer damage may have to be taken care of by a third party but hopefully we can get that done at Don's and not have to move the boat any. It's unfortunate that it has taken until yesterday for me to get into contact with Don's but that was as soon as I personally had the contact info. Don's has ordered the main part they think is needed to clear the engine errors and hopefully the stereo power issue. They feel it is actually a missing "command module" which allows the front and back of the boat to communicate. It is only a $200ish part and was hopefully in stock in Seattle and should be received by Don's tomorrow. There should be a diagnosis on these main functional issues with the engine and stereo shortly.

I will continue to push these repairs to completion so Jason can get back on the water.
Old     (randv)      Join Date: May 2015       06-24-2015, 12:11 AM Reply   
Well done Chris for posting one here. Sadly the learning point for manufacturers is that it seems better to keep a low profile when issues are posted, and I don't think that will be helpful to any of us in the future. 90% of the 'fault' lies surely between the 2 transacting parties, JJ and TAL, and if there is any legal action, it will likely be only between these two.

It was TAL that advertised, sold, & delivered the boat to JJ, not Epic. Hopefully Epic is leaning on TAL etc behind the scenes, but we will never know. What is going on between Epic and TAL to resolve this and also the dealers performance is likely to remain confidential as it indeed should. I personally think TAL have performed really badly in this from the information we have, as the boat was almost certainly delivered in a non-running state, with parts missing (I don't think people are likely to steal just an ECU from a boat in a motel car park, so in all probability, it was TALs lack of care here etc).

TAL, by making no comment on this forum seem to have escaped the wrath of the posters despite being legally responsible for the transaction, and Epic, who came on to post updates, have received the real venom on here. Sadly therefore the lesson for manufacturers is keep quiet and keep your head down.

We know from public accounts that the margins on these boats are modest for the manufacturers (obviously don't know Epic's specific operating income, but I assume it is in line with the industry), and they necessarily rely on dealers performing their responsibilities, and can't just immediately indemnify any dealer short coming, though obviously in an ideal world they would.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       06-24-2015, 3:30 AM Reply   
^x2

I wonder what kinda of PITA process they have to go through to get the marina, who is not their dealer, authorization for parts and work.

Would not let this dissuade me from buying an epic.
Could have been any brand, but we will never hear about those due to corporate sponsorships on forums and mastercraft's iron fist ruling over on TT.


OP I still want to see pics of the boat as it sits. Let's see how bad this really is.
Old     (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       06-24-2015, 5:26 AM Reply   
What im having a hard time understanding is that TAL is putting Epic boats on the internet as a MC. A rep from Epic is on this forum and seeing everything that we are.

Wouldn't you think that Epic would want their boat to sell as and Epic for brand reason. That tells a lot about the dealer just based on the Ad. I feel bad about the OP as he is truly getting the shaft and putting a bad taste in his mouth about boating.

As for Epic, they seem like an ok boat but for the money I would rather buy and MB, Axis, or Moomba.
Old     (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       06-24-2015, 6:10 AM Reply   
I'm pretty sure the only reason mastercraft is listed in the title is for search engines.

So if somebody that has never heard of Epic goes on Ebay looking for a nice new mastercraft. They type in mastercraft and this brand new Epic pops up at half the price.
Old     (MalibuGold)      Join Date: Oct 2014       06-24-2015, 6:24 AM Reply   
MasterCraft knows now. They were pretty surprised.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-24-2015, 7:02 AM Reply   
Well, I certainly hope that this story has a happy ending, and JJ gets his boat fixed. While Epic probably has asked him to let this thread die, it would be nice to have JJ get back on here eventually and let us know what ultimately gets resolved.
Old     (wiscxstar)      Join Date: Mar 2002       06-24-2015, 8:20 AM Reply   
It just isn't a keyword on ebay, this is from the TAL website: http://www.txcars.net/web/new/Master...Texas/1752855/
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Old     (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       06-24-2015, 8:26 AM Reply   
Definitely false advertising
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       06-24-2015, 8:50 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalibuGold View Post
MasterCraft knows now. They were pretty surprised.

Good.

Screw this dealer.
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       06-24-2015, 9:06 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
Definitely false advertising
A message from TAL when queried on why they called it a Mastercraft. I just checked and you can definitely call it whatever you want in the "Make" category - these guys are pros on ebay, this is no accident.
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Old     (Rusty)      Join Date: Mar 2014       06-24-2015, 9:24 AM Reply   
It's still false advertising when you call it a Mastercraft Epic Boat. They do it on their own website as well. Don't really care what they say, it's shady as hell
Old     (crimson850)      Join Date: Feb 2015       06-24-2015, 11:11 AM Reply   
I searched ebay today to find these listings. I no longer see "master craft" in their adds
Old     (davez71)      Join Date: Oct 2007       06-24-2015, 11:35 AM Reply   
Im sure chris isn't happy to see their product name labeled as MC..
Old     (MalibuGold)      Join Date: Oct 2014       06-24-2015, 11:44 AM Reply   
Mastercraft is still there.
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       06-24-2015, 1:09 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
It's still false advertising when you call it a Mastercraft Epic Boat. They do it on their own website as well. Don't really care what they say, it's shady as hell
I was just saying their excuse is a fallacy. They know what they're doing.
Old     (DuckHuntin1)      Join Date: Jul 2013       06-24-2015, 9:12 PM Reply   
I have really enjoyed reading this thread, now Im putting in my two cents.

Thanks JJ, I never buy from TAL ever!

Epics boats are just a ugly as their customer service. They do get an E for effort. Bad thing is they seem to not mind doing dirty business with dirty business partners.

Now if I remember correctly JJ received this boat and did not sign any papers and the delivery person just unhooked and left. How would anyone know if the delivery person or the type of person that would drop 60k on a boat sight unseen, back this boat up and damage the swim platform and trailer? Maybe someone was to busy to learn how to back up a trailer and not be smart enough to have a spotter behind them. Maybe the crooked delivery company was to cheep to have an extra person to assist in the delivery. Who cares?!

Don't worry about buying/ordering parts we will just piece this boat out here. Guide pads, ECMs we gottem!

Guys make this right. JJ work with Chris, Chris stop passing the buck and missing emails and opportunities and get these A-holes to stop misrepresenting your boats. You got a good thing started keep it growing and moving forward.

JJ accept the fact that you purchased this "New" boat at a cheeper than dirt price and get her sea worthy, time's a wasting.

Problems and setbacks are inevitable, it's the ones that are able to readjust, adapt and overcome that in this case will get the morning butter.

Peace, I'm out.
Old     (brett33)      Join Date: Apr 2011       06-25-2015, 1:12 AM Reply   
Channeling my inner JetRanger..

I can't believe you guys are surprised at why TAL is labeling their Epics as Mastercrafts.. Isn't it obvious, TAL recognizes that there is no other brand on the water that is more superior, pumps out the undisputed best wakes in the industry, has a track record of excellence a mile long and at least that in snail trail.

Seriously though, JJ better post back up and let us know what the outcome of this was.
Hoping it gets fixed man, nothing worse than having a new rig you can't enjoy in primo time!
Old     (illini88)      Join Date: Oct 2007       06-25-2015, 4:47 AM Reply   
I still don't understand the complete lack of any paperwork. Maybe this explains why the OP has no title yet. I've NEVER seen a situation where I could get title to a vehicle without signing something. I've bought cars, trucks, boats, jetskis, etc., and never once have I been able to get title to something without filling out some paperwork. These days we are able to do a lot more things electronically. Is it possible you unknowingly completed some E docs? If not, I'd start looking into how you are going to be able to get a title and to register it with state you live in.
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       06-25-2015, 4:57 AM Reply   
He got the paperwork he's just not signed it since he isn't satisfied with the purchase.
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       06-25-2015, 6:02 AM Reply   
JJ - the mere fact that you thought it was actually a mastercraft explains enough for me to know exactly where the issue is... When you buy a boat on EBAY, sight unseen, ship it to god knows where, don't water test it, pay a friend/mechanic to even take a peek at it, the burden is completely and solely on you. Then to see you actually rip into Chris, the owner of the company, who appears to be TRYING to help you, makes me think even less of you.

This entire thread is a big laugh... JJ, you want to place blame on Chris, when you don't even try to speak with TAL (Texas Auto Liquidators, which btw the closest thing to selling boats I can see from their name is the word Liquid), or expect anything from them, you just keep on ripping Chris. Heres a little hint for you, these people owe you NOTHING, 100% NOTHING, and you are expecting a handout, coming here and airing out your mistake.

And to all of you people who expect Chris to ship him a new boat, fly a mech down, or whatever... Show me a single thread on here where MC or Nautique or (insert whatever over priced wake boat you want) wrote a response here or did what your wanting EPIC to do, with similar facts... Ive heard many horror stories about EVERY boat company, as people tend to complain on forums more than compliment, but never have I seen a single CEO from any other company come here and try and help, because most of the time it happens at the dealership, (omg, the actual dealership, which is 2k miles from you and as we know, not known for their boat sales, AND someplace that you don't seem to have contacted with any real vigor about your issue).

Here is a saying that completely applies to you and your situation... "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar", keep on ripping Chris for trying to help, karma has a funny way of coming right back to you... And before you say Karma? Consider all the mistakes you made and STILL people are trying to help you and then the way you act towards that help...

It makes me sad to know that we own the same boat....

LanceM

Last edited by LanceM; 06-25-2015 at 6:03 AM. Reason: grammar
Old     (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       06-25-2015, 6:29 AM Reply   
Lancem? Nice rant! Nice that your defending your brand. But did u read the tread before your soapbox speech? Maybe I missed it but JJ never thought he was buy a MasterCraft from what I read?
The reason I'm on here and somewhat siding for him is that I do believe it's the dealer that caused this issue but it's partly in epics hands now because they endorse the shoddy dealer who isn't doing anything apparently other than cashing the check and moving on to the next deal.
Old     (TX_Chris)      Join Date: Jun 2015       06-25-2015, 7:03 AM Reply   
Here is the part you missed:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SICKSPEED View Post
Now is this boat a Mastercraft product or not? Thats some major misrepresentation. That was also one of the reasons I originally decided to buy it. I thought it was a Mastercraft sub brand like Honda/Acura.
Every one they sell they say its a Mastercraft. I`m guessing that was a lie at this point.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-Epic-21...m=361323669763

Pretty damn dishonest if you ask me.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       06-25-2015, 7:16 AM Reply   
He is posturing to have more ammo on his side for when this does go to court. Anyone with half a brain can see that.
Old     (Nordicron)      Join Date: Aug 2011       06-25-2015, 7:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by psudy View Post
He is posturing to have more ammo on his side for when this does go to court. Anyone with half a brain can see that.

Jeez! Now I feel like a dumb???! Missed that post! Sorry lance. Yeah I'd agree that's some posturing! Again not epics fault but they are for sure supporting a scum bag of a dealer.
Old     (randv)      Join Date: May 2015       06-25-2015, 7:32 AM Reply   
But that was my point earlier, we have no idea whether Epic are supporting TAL after this debacle. This is just a forum, and what is said on forums rarely is the full story.

Just because Epic haven't come on here and started ranting about TAL (I realize ranting about how bad xxxx or yyyy have been is what forums are good at), doesn't mean anything. Maybe, just perhaps, Chris is indeed trying to handle this professionally and not just rant in the public domain. Dealerships are (usually) legal arrangements, made under contract, that have some due process associated with them, especially on non-performance clauses etc.

After all, Chris runs a boat company that must have some ideas about customer service as he's still in business today in a competitive market. Let's not judge Epic and TALs current relationship on what Chris may or may not say on a completely uncontrolled anonymous media.

Last edited by randv; 06-25-2015 at 7:33 AM. Reason: Grammar
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       06-25-2015, 7:35 AM Reply   
The thread is long Ron, its cool...

Yes, I see the posturing happening... But cmon guys... Dude made so many mistakes that most people with boat experience dont make... And if you dont have experience, dont spend 60k on an ebay boat 2000 miles away... Yet the anti-Epic fan boys are out ready to throw Epic under the bus for JJs bad choices.

Yes, Im following this partly because of the boat being an Epic... I think I'm not trying to hide that fact...

Im just disappointed by the fact that Epic (Chris) is using TAL and we have no idea from either Chris or JJ about what role TAL is playing in this, other than the fact that Im now a proud owner of an Mastercraft Epic lol...

An interesting side note, and maybe Chris will enlighten us... I have noticed a HUGE push by Epic to sell Bay boats and the Wake board design getting zero PR. While I believe JJ has pretty much hosed himself with his poor choices, I do wonder about the "vigor" Epic might not be showing with their Wake boats. When I push for some clarification of this via Facebook, I get told, "we have some exciting new Wake Boat developments coming", yet I see nothing but the pushing of Bay boats... This does make me raise an eyebrow at what is going on...

So, can we leave the "LanceM is a fanboy" out of this conversation...
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       06-25-2015, 8:05 AM Reply   
If the boat wasn't advertised as new, I would agree with you, but it was and that changes everything.
Old     (TTyler89)      Join Date: Jun 2015       06-25-2015, 8:12 AM Reply   
If I were in JJ's shoes, Id be doing the exact same thing. Yes he did make the mistake of not checking the boat out at the dealership and in the water before he paid for it, but we are human and it shouldn't matter as this boat was listed as BRAND NEW with FULL FACTORY WARRANTY. I've seen many people buy New Cars sight unseen and had it shipped to them with no issues. What is the difference.The fact that he is/tried contacting TAL and they said p*** off, I'd be after epic to make this right. TAL is a representative for Epic and if epic even remotely cared about the customer that pays their paycheck, they would have routed JJ to the next closest dealer to get this all straightened out in a timely manner and not beat around the bush. Then gone after TAL for misrepresentation of their product. Its That simple.

And the whole he thought it was a mastercraft sub brand thing is irrelevant.

Last edited by TTyler89; 06-25-2015 at 8:16 AM.
Old     (SICKSPEED)      Join Date: May 2015       06-25-2015, 8:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceM View Post
JJ - the mere fact that you thought it was actually a mastercraft explains enough for me to know exactly where the issue is... When you buy a boat on EBAY, sight unseen, ship it to god knows where, don't water test it, pay a friend/mechanic to even take a peek at it, the burden is completely and solely on you. Then to see you actually rip into Chris, the owner of the company, who appears to be TRYING to help you, makes me think even less of you.

This entire thread is a big laugh... JJ, you want to place blame on Chris, when you don't even try to speak with TAL (Texas Auto Liquidators, which btw the closest thing to selling boats I can see from their name is the word Liquid), or expect anything from them, you just keep on ripping Chris. Heres a little hint for you, these people owe you NOTHING, 100% NOTHING, and you are expecting a handout, coming here and airing out your mistake.

And to all of you people who expect Chris to ship him a new boat, fly a mech down, or whatever... Show me a single thread on here where MC or Nautique or (insert whatever over priced wake boat you want) wrote a response here or did what your wanting EPIC to do, with similar facts... Ive heard many horror stories about EVERY boat company, as people tend to complain on forums more than compliment, but never have I seen a single CEO from any other company come here and try and help, because most of the time it happens at the dealership, (omg, the actual dealership, which is 2k miles from you and as we know, not known for their boat sales, AND someplace that you don't seem to have contacted with any real vigor about your issue).

Here is a saying that completely applies to you and your situation... "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar", keep on ripping Chris for trying to help, karma has a funny way of coming right back to you... And before you say Karma? Consider all the mistakes you made and STILL people are trying to help you and then the way you act towards that help...

It makes me sad to know that we own the same boat....

LanceM
Lance,with all due respect, youre way off point here.
1. My VERY first call was to TAL. When I talked to TAL they immediately passed the buck to Epic, saying the boat was in the same condition as they got it from Epic. (when I called Epic Brad told me it was a repo.) Epic advised me they would "make it right".
2. TAL is an authorized dealer or Epic boats and it says so on Epics website.
3. I bought the boat "NEW WITH FULL FACTORY WARRANTY" and I have paper to prove that.
4. Dont tell me about karma when you dont have the facts. I hold Epic and TAL equally responsible here. They can sort out the blame between them. I gave TAL and Epic a chance to fix fix this and I originally was a trooper until it became clear that all this was going to ruin a large part my family`s summer and I would not be compensated for all my time lost, invested, taken off work, and not able to use a boat that was grossly misrepresented.
5. Yes after all this crap, I`m pissed and you would be too.
6. Yes Malibu WILL fly a tech down to repair your boat (on Memorial Day weekend no less!!) I personally know a guy that happend to. Ask around. I`m sure others can attest for this.
Old     (Medium)      Join Date: Aug 2011       06-25-2015, 9:35 AM Reply   
I was looking at purchasing an Axis A22 demo boat with 11 hrs on it. When I went to test drive it the check engine light came on and it was running really rough. Turned out the cats had gone bad. The dealer couldn't figure out what caused the problem and they were talking to PCM's techs, and they couldn't figure it out either. After replacing the cats, along with a bunch of other parts, they went bad again. Once that happened they got on the phone with Malibu and PCM to resolve the issue ASAP. The phone call I got was "The bad news is that the boat is still broken. The good news is that we're express shipping a new motor/trans/vdrive/computer"... I had the boat on the water in less than 2 weeks.

I hadn't spent a single dollar with them, or signed any purchase agreement, and I was already receiving incredible customer service, and I have continued to receive incredible customer service.

I wouldn't expect Epic to give JJ a new boat, but they could have at least overnight, or 2day, shipped him a new ECU, instead of ground shipping a used one...

Last edited by Medium; 06-25-2015 at 9:44 AM.
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       06-25-2015, 9:51 AM Reply   
1. Its Epics job to fix the shipping damage? Its Epics job to replace the removed ECU? I think you are way off base with whos job it is to do what, and continue to count your lucky stars you have the owner/designer of the company here helping you, because I think we ALL know what you would get from TAL. Yet you continue to poke a stick at the snake, meaning Epic. You also now know the full history of this boat (from Epic ironically, who didn't try to hide it), and could chose to understand how this mess got created, which you played a part in, but again, instead of focusing your unhappiness on TAL, you again chose to single out Epic, which is mind boggling.
2. All your #2 means is see #1
3. Your #3 again means see #1
4. The "facts" I have are the facts you have presented, if I don't know them, its ONLY because you don't or haven't shared them.. So take the blame. I will be the first to take back all that I have said, if the facts are not what you have led to believe. And I can tell you about (boat) Karma all I want, cause you will get yours... Good or bad... But the way you treat the people trying to help you, regardless of how "upset" you are over making some poor choices, is the point I will continue to make.
5. Oh hell yeah I would be pissed if I was you, but I would never be you. And for argument sake, say I did make all your poor choices, the LAST thing I would was bite the hand that now was feeding me. By the time this was completely over, I would have made Chris my new best friend, but you, seem to want to blame him for your poor choices.
6. Ok... Im asking around.. Do we have any proof of this happening? (insert overpriced wake boat manufacturer here), have you flown anyone around the US to fix a customers boat with similar circumstances? CEOs please respond lol?

JJ, I bet your a nice guy and I do appreciate the "with all due respect".. And honestly, I am generally considered a pretty nice guy as well, we just disagree with how your handling this after the poor choices you made.

LanceM
Old     (ScottR)      Join Date: Aug 2011       06-25-2015, 9:58 AM Reply   
CHATT -..... where is the funny Meme right about now with Michael Jackson and popcorn!!!
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       06-25-2015, 10:03 AM Reply   
Jason... That is exactly the way things should happen... And while that was the best result in your situation, I don't see alot of commonality with JJs..

That being said, I would like to point out what I have read and how I cant determine fact from fiction.

JJ stated he got a used ECU... Chris has never confirmed or denied this... Instead he chose to say the incorrect one was shipped... By incorrect, this could mean many things, a used one? The wrong model? Or both... We are missing facts... But he did ship one and tried to get the info to ship the next one, but did not receive any cooperation directly from JJ when asked, in fact, it was quite the opposite reaction from JJ.

There are mistakes here all over the place... Would I be able to get this fixed any sooner than JJ? Who knows... All I do know is, I would have handled this completely differently than him.... That does not mean Im a better person, just a different one...

LanceM
Old     (Medium)      Join Date: Aug 2011       06-25-2015, 11:19 AM Reply   
Lance, my situation may not have direct commonalities with JJ's, but the point is that my dealer, Malibu, and PCM didn't mess around and resolved the problem as fast as they could. I had my entire drivetrain shipped and swapped out faster than JJ has received one part that could have fit in a flat rate USPS box.

I don't think anyone will deny that JJ made a bad decision, but at the end of the day he bought a boat that was sold as new with a full warranty. That means it's TAL and Epic's responsibility to resolve any issues the boat may have. TAL clearly sold a shady boat and blamed Epic, then Epic blamed the shipper, which was TAL. I wouldn't care who's fault it is. I would expect Epic and TAL to make things right ASAP. JJ has had the boat for over a month and it still isn't fixed.
Old     (illini88)      Join Date: Oct 2007       06-25-2015, 11:55 AM Reply   
Jason, your scenario IS something that would be covered by a factory warranty. A part being removed from the boat's engine IS NOT something that would be covered by a factory warranty. Shipping damage IS NOT something that would be caused by a factory warranty. While I still feel for the boat owner, a factory warranty is not a guarantee that after your boat is shipped 2,000 miles by an independent 3rd party that it will be in showroom condition. At this point, Epic has taken its bad press. If I was them, I'd be inclined to allow the OP flush his money and sue me.
Old     (TX_Chris)      Join Date: Jun 2015       06-25-2015, 12:14 PM Reply   
I have been following this thread, hoping for JJ to be back on the water, but there are many things that do not sit well with me. Luckily, JJ's last post can help me precisely articulate my concerns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SICKSPEED View Post
1. My VERY first call was to TAL. When I talked to TAL they immediately passed the buck to Epic, saying the boat was in the same condition as they got it from Epic. (when I called Epic Brad told me it was a repo.) Epic advised me they would "make it right".
And you believed TAL when they said that the boat has always had those problems? We see pictures taken at TAL that do not have these problems. Obviously, you have taken the time to comb over those pictures... did you find any of the damage in TAL's pictures? No. But for some strange reason you believed TAL when they told you it was Epic that sent them the boat that way?? That seems completely out of character for someone in your shoes - after feeling like TAL sold you a lemon, you believe them when they point the finger up stream even when you have photographic proof to the contrary. When you spin stories like this, you look like you will bend the truth to get what you want. In this case, you want it fixed. You weren't getting anywhere with TAL, so you moved on to blaming Epic. The "posturing" about it being a Mastercraft makes me think you are a liar. No one with half a brain really thinks Epic is Mastercraft. And anyone who says this is not the point, is missing the real point. The real point is, let's judge this story with the facts by themselves, but judge the story being told by the honesty of the person who is telling the story. And JJ is losing it when he will say or do things that do not fit with what a rational person would say or do in the same situation. If JJ would lie about believing Epic is part of MC, what else would he lie about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SICKSPEED View Post
2. TAL is an authorized dealer or Epic boats and it says so on Epics website.
3. I bought the boat "NEW WITH FULL FACTORY WARRANTY" and I have paper to prove that.
What do you think is covered under that warranty? The gel coat? The upholstery? The hub cap? The mirror that was never in any of the pictures when you bought the boat? I mean come on... You seem to have a fictitious, and totally self serving view of a full factory warranty and totally discount the fact that "new" means no previous owner, not "in pristine state AFTER it was drug halfway across the nation" Maybe you know this isn't covered under the warranty and this is just more lying/posturing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SICKSPEED View Post
4. Dont tell me about karma when you dont have the facts. I hold Epic and TAL equally responsible here. They can sort out the blame between them. I gave TAL and Epic a chance to fix fix this and I originally was a trooper until it became clear that all this was going to ruin a large part my family`s summer and I would not be compensated for all my time lost, invested, taken off work, and not able to use a boat that was grossly misrepresented.
First of all, this is a complete about face from your original post, where you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SICKSPEED View Post
To be clear I dont blame Epic Boats for the problems. This dealer didnt do a pre-delivery inspection and sold me a boat that was misrepresented.
Maybe facts have changed and now you think it is Epic's fault that you hired some yard monkey to ruin your boat for 2K miles?

If you REALLY wanted to make sure everything was perfect from the moment you received it, you could have taken many safeguards to prevent it. The easiest would have been to hire a Dallas area marine surveyor. It would have cost you $350 or so... which is just over 0.05% of the total cost of the boat - not a bad price for that kind of security in this level of an investment. And you could have hired a company to transport your boat correctly - fully wrapped sitting on a flat bed, just to make sure it was safe the whole time. But you did absolutely nothing to safeguard yourself from this. You took a known risk on a too good to be true deal with an untrustworthy transporter and it bit you in the ass. Now take your medicine... make some lemonade... but stop blaming everyone for the stars not aligning for your long shot. You are lucky it is only this bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SICKSPEED View Post
5. Yes after all this crap, I`m pissed and you would be too.
I would be just as upset with myself for choosing to ignore the red flags. I would also be waaaaaay too embarrassed to post my dumb decision on the WWW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SICKSPEED View Post
6. Yes Malibu WILL fly a tech down to repair your boat (on Memorial Day weekend no less!!) I personally know a guy that happend to. Ask around. I`m sure others can attest for this.
I am 100% sure the situation was completely different. Just like Jason's experience above is completely different. In Jason's story, he still had that carrot of a sale hanging over the dealer's head and the dealer reacted accordingly. You had already given the dealer the carrot... too late to ask them to do something - especially when you are 2K miles away. The incentive is gone. Now if you are standing in the lot, fanning yourself with the $60K and asking about problems that are preventing you from handing over that wad of cash, I am very sure you would have received a full service response - just like Jason did.


Ever heard of the Spanish proverb: El trabajo según la paga (literally: work as pay, but loosely translated it means the cheap comes out expensive)

If not, then that might have a large part to do with your complaining... You saved $20+K off of a real new Epic 23V... All of the problems you listed combine to about $3K (or less) in repairs, right? If you would have paid $5K to the right mechanic, you would be on the water now (I know there is a line this time of year, but that line would have moved through by now). Hmmm doing the match in my head... saved $20K, spend $5K to get it working... hmmmm.... ummmm. carry the one... uh... round to the nearest whole dollar... yup! you are still in the black by a boatload! But instead, you pick some Mercruiser mechanic who doesn't even have the necessary diagnostic tools, let alone the parts to quickly repair it. Doesn't anyone wonder why this mechanic doesn't have a line in the most heavily utilized time of year? This, again, points you to the Spanish proverb... You act like this was a totally legit deal that you paid full price for and took all of the precautions but were given a bait and switch. When in reality, you believed everything that you wanted to and ignored everything that would have sent off warnings... and now it is the manufacturer's fault and the dealer's fault, but none of it is JJ's fault... talk about passing the buck...

And for those of you who say "but the listing said "new"... he shouldn't have to hire a surveyor to check out a new boat!", I say a new Epic 23V boat isn't $60K. In fact a one year old used Epic 23V isn't $60K. Furthermore, there are entire websites dedicated to TAL misrepresenting facts in order to make a sale and then disappearing after the sale (http://donotbuyfromtexascars.net/) Even before it was hindsight, something didn't add up here, and he should have covered his bases a little better before sending off the check. The surveyor is a simple way to cover those bases. Simple, human mistake by not choosing one, but still a mistake that would have completely changed the situation for the better. If the surveyor never found any of the cosmetic damages, then it is very easy to see the transporter caused the damages. But as it stands now, we have to speculate. And for that, he (and no one else) is completely to blame.

To be clear, I am guilty of risking lots. Sometimes it works out, and I look like a rock star. Sometimes it doesn't and I look like a putz. Guess what you look like on this one, JJ? Don't worry, you will get on the water and enjoy the summer and all of your friends and family will forget about this... of course this thread will live on forever - serving as a constant reminder of when you were a putz

If you re-read the original post, JJ recognizes this isn't Epic's fault and that many, if not all, of these problems came from the improper transport and a lack of a final inspection by TAL. In re-reading the list, I would agree with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SICKSPEED View Post
1. Huge rip in the fabric cover.
2. Gelcoat damage from improper towing with cover on.
3. Engine wont turn over or start at all. Completely inoperable.
4. Missing parts list includes:
- Pin for the wakeboard tower. (Cant use it without that.)
- Owners manual, and more...
5. Stereo wont power on.
6. The bimini top was tossed in the bottom of the boat and it grinded a nasty 8 inch long patch in the gelcoat on the floor for the entire 2000 mile trip.
7. Trailer is completely missing one light and one reflector.
8. Trailer has been in some sort of accident where it was dented on the step just ahead of the fender.
9. Engine is throwing NINE different codes!!! Are you serious??? YES. NINE.
10. Rear swim step has multiple stress fractures looking like a spiderweb. Looks like it was backed into something.
11. Small hole on the driver seat left armrest. This is a very noticeable location for a hole.
12. Various nuts, bolts and washers scattered under seats, on the floor, etc. Sloppy.
13. One of the chrome center caps on the wheel is cracked almost completely in half.
14. Foam seal on the center window is peeled of about 3-4 inches down and mangled up.
Old     (TTyler89)      Join Date: Jun 2015       06-25-2015, 12:25 PM Reply   
^^^ However, the fact it was sold as New and somehow Epic knew the boat was a REPO (dealer repo most likely), the blame still falls on both TAL and Epic to make this right. Meaning that this boat is in unsure condition since leaving Epics hands and Epic is aware of it.

Last edited by TTyler89; 06-25-2015 at 12:32 PM.
Old     (TX_Chris)      Join Date: Jun 2015       06-25-2015, 12:32 PM Reply   
I think I already covered that, brah

Quote:
Originally Posted by TX_Chris View Post
And for those of you who say "but the listing said "new"...
It is always the buyers responsibility to ensure the product being purchased is as described. This is especially true when the dealer has language like TAL all over their website, basically saying "we can fill your head with lies and you can't sue" More red flags...

Last edited by TX_Chris; 06-25-2015 at 12:35 PM.
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       06-25-2015, 12:34 PM Reply   
Not splitting hairs with you Jason, but they did ship them a ECU which was quoted by JJ as incorrect and used, and reported by Chris as just being incorrect.

Keep in mind there is no Mercury/Epic dealer anywhere close to JJ (again, poor choice)... Also, JJ believed he provided Epics entire company the boats location by sending the address to one person at Epic. And when Chris asked for where the boat is, he wasn't told, instead he was bad mouthed...

So the ECU had to wait till the email that JJ sent got passed around the company getting to Chris or Chris had to become an investigator to figure it out from the SS's JJ posted. And ironically JJ wants to complain about the process being slow, really?

And lets be 100% honest here... Have we seen any picture detailing this damage? Im not saying JJ is lying, but I asked for pix of the damage way back on page 1 of this thread. Why would you not want to post of these pics?

There is something fishy happening here and Im tired of everyone bad mouthing Chris for doing nothing but trying to help JJ get on the water.

LanceM
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       06-25-2015, 12:36 PM Reply   
Oh and I can say this as well, since it was bought on ebay... If you went through them, you would have you money back 100%, they would back you if what you are saying is true. Have you investigated this yet JJ?

LanceM
Old     (iShredSAN)      Join Date: Apr 2012       06-25-2015, 12:41 PM Reply   
I do find it funny that most of the guys criticizing the OP are Epic owners...

I am just glad to be able to contribute to such an EPIC thread!
Old     (TTyler89)      Join Date: Jun 2015       06-25-2015, 12:47 PM Reply   
#epicfail2015
Old     (TX_Chris)      Join Date: Jun 2015       06-25-2015, 12:59 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by iShredSAN View Post
I do find it funny that most of the guys criticizing the OP are Epic owners...
I don't think it is funny (either comical or strange)... I have contacted Epic twice now. Both times I was able to get what I wanted. Both times it took about 2 or 3 times longer than I thought it should have. That is the way it works there, or so it would appear. They work at a different pace than you or I would expect. I am not happy with that, but I am not throwing a fit, either.

I can't bite my tongue any longer when I see someone blaming everyone but themselves for their poor choices. Shifting blame as the story progresses. Making up outlandish claims that Epic is part of MC... And on top of it, make things MORE difficult to be resolved. I was completely on JJs side until he started showing all of this...

Would you buy a new boat halfway across the nation without having anyone set eyes on it? Sure! Would you do it if the price was over $20K lower than the market value? Not without verifying the product is as described!

In the end, it was greed that blinded JJ, and pride that has kept him from facing that fact. And the brand of boat changes nothing in that regard.
Old     (imscarlet)      Join Date: Mar 2008       06-25-2015, 1:02 PM Reply   
Jason there more similarity to JJ's story than you might like to hear especially after the previous comment... I'm sure PCM would like to take the credit for the "incredible service" they provided you but I hate to tell you that they don't supply engines to Axis.

As to the other story I'm sure mistakes were made by all parties and yes it is how we deal with them that makes the difference this is both parties NOT just the sellers but also the customer! Airing grievances on a public forum is not the best way to build any relationship or resolve an issue other than to provide entertainment for the rest of us.
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       06-25-2015, 1:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by iShredSAN View Post
I do find it funny that most of the guys criticizing the OP are Epic owners...

I am just glad to be able to contribute to such an EPIC thread!
Have you contributed?

And I will turn it around on you... I find it funny that everyone that doesnt own the product being bashed is bashing Epic... Basically you have ZERO experience and are just an opinion.. And we know the old saying about opinions...

LanceM
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       06-25-2015, 1:15 PM Reply   
Havent you heard, we are Mastercraft Epic owners now... Show respect!!!!

LanceM
Old     (DatTexasBoy)      Join Date: Aug 2012       06-25-2015, 1:29 PM Reply   
$60K is 20K less than market value?? Wow, I wouldn't give $45K for a new one.
Old     (kirk)      Join Date: May 2003       06-25-2015, 1:31 PM Reply   
Quote:
My first post on here. Just bought a "NEW" 2014 Epic 23v from Texas Auto Liquidators. Long ass list of things wrong with this "new" boat. Had it for 6 days and it still wont start. $60,000.00 worth of disappointment so far...

1. Huge rip in the fabric cover.
2. Gelcoat damage from improper towing with cover on.
3. Engine wont turn over or start at all. Completely inoperable.
4. Missing parts list includes:
- Pin for the wakeboard tower. (Cant use it without that.)
- Owners manual, and more...
5. Stereo wont power on.
6. The bimini top was tossed in the bottom of the boat and it grinded a nasty 8 inch long patch in the gelcoat on the floor for the entire 2000 mile trip.
7. Trailer is completely missing one light and one reflector.
8. Trailer has been in some sort of accident where it was dented on the step just ahead of the fender.
9. Engine is throwing NINE different codes!!! Are you serious??? YES. NINE.
10. Rear swim step has multiple stress fractures looking like a spiderweb. Looks like it was backed into something.
11. Small hole on the driver seat left armrest. This is a very noticeable location for a hole.
12. Various nuts, bolts and washers scattered under seats, on the floor, etc. Sloppy.
13. One of the chrome center caps on the wheel is cracked almost completely in half.
14. Foam seal on the center window is peeled of about 3-4 inches down and mangled up.

To be clear I dont blame Epic Boats for the problems. This dealer didnt do a pre-delivery inspection and sold me a boat that was misrepresented. In the meantime I`m burdened with taking pictures and typing descriptions of all the problems and tracking down a mechanic that can fix their mess.
Any thoughts?

Why the huge swing in blame? Its obvious from your first post that you agree that this was not an Epic issue, it was a dealer issue. Most of the items on your list appear to have occurred during shipping. Have you addressed any of the issues with the shipping company? I cant believe that you would receive the boat from the shipper without actually inspecting it first.
Old     (FunkyBunch)      Join Date: Jun 2011       06-25-2015, 1:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by imscarlet View Post
Jason there more similarity to JJ's story than you might like to hear especially after the previous comment... I'm sure PCM would like to take the credit for the "incredible service" they provided you but I hate to tell you that they don't supply engines to Axis.
.
As of 2015 Axis and Malibu use PCM motors.

http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/...in-2015/page-3
Old     (Medium)      Join Date: Aug 2011       06-25-2015, 1:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by imscarlet View Post
I'm sure PCM would like to take the credit for the "incredible service" they provided you but I hate to tell you that they don't supply engines to Axis.
Ah yes, I always refer to PCM and Crusader together being both under Pleasurecraft Engine Group. I guess it's kinda like how Mastercraft and Epic are under the same company...

Last edited by Medium; 06-25-2015 at 1:51 PM.
Old     (derek_h)      Join Date: Oct 2004       06-25-2015, 2:08 PM Reply   
WOW! What a mess! First off I have to say I side with JJ on this. Buyer beware to a certain degree, but when you are purchasing a brand new boat from an authorized dealer the boat should be perfect! Even if some of the blame goes to the shipper, it should be TAL going after the shipper to make this right. There seems to be almost zero effort on the customer service side of things. They made the deal with the shipper and they should be wanting a happy customer.
My family owns a business and we purchase products daily sight unseen. A reputable manufacture/dealer should back up there product. Our business is in Canada and we have purchased a few used cars from the USA with out seeing them and all have them worked out great. The dealer was upfront and honest from the start, the way business should be conducted. As a business owner we completely back our products and always keep customers happy. This is a key to success with any company. Stuff like this destroys companies and TAL looks like they are just out for a fast buck. Even if Epic and TAL would have to spend some money and break even on the deal it would be worth it for them.
I personally would only ever purchase a big three boat and find Epics boats to be ass ugly, but hearing about this seals the deal ever considering an Epic. I will go out of my way to warn anyone even looking/considering purchasing an Epic. This whole thing is shady!
If this was a used boat from a private sale this is a whole different story. But a "Brand New" boat from an authorized deal?.......come on!
In business there are always a few lemon deals that are going to happen from time to time. How you handle it proves your worth. A company/dealer that does not back there product should not be in business!
Old     (imscarlet)      Join Date: Mar 2008       06-25-2015, 2:11 PM Reply   
Thanks for that and sorry for the misinformation looks PCM's Crusader arm are doing a new series of engines specifically for Supreme, Axis and the Malibu Response

http://www.crusaderengines.com/challenger/
Old     (imscarlet)      Join Date: Mar 2008       06-25-2015, 2:28 PM Reply   
Sorry just saw a previous post I'm not splitting hairs I did thing Indmar not PCM were still providing the Axis engines
Old     (Cabledog)      Join Date: Dec 2013       06-25-2015, 2:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by derek_h View Post
WOW! What a mess! First off I have to say I side with JJ on this. Buyer beware to a certain degree, but when you are purchasing a brand new boat from an authorized dealer the boat should be perfect! Even if some of the blame goes to the shipper, it should be TAL going after the shipper to make this right. There seems to be almost zero effort on the customer service side of things. They made the deal with the shipper and they should be wanting a happy customer.
My family owns a business and we purchase products daily sight unseen. A reputable manufacture/dealer should back up there product. Our business is in Canada and we have purchased a few used cars from the USA with out seeing them and all have them worked out great. The dealer was upfront and honest from the start, the way business should be conducted. As a business owner we completely back our products and always keep customers happy. This is a key to success with any company. Stuff like this destroys companies and TAL looks like they are just out for a fast buck. Even if Epic and TAL would have to spend some money and break even on the deal it would be worth it for them.
I personally would only ever purchase a big three boat and find Epics boats to be ass ugly, but hearing about this seals the deal ever considering an Epic. I will go out of my way to warn anyone even looking/considering purchasing an Epic. This whole thing is shady!
If this was a used boat from a private sale this is a whole different story. But a "Brand New" boat from an authorized deal?.......come on!
In business there are always a few lemon deals that are going to happen from time to time. How you handle it proves your worth. A company/dealer that does not back there product should not be in business!
I agree completely , especially the ass ugly part.

In all seriousness the cornerstone of our business is customer service. How you handle an uncomfortable situation determines future business. Perception is in the eye of the perceiver, we have had to make situations right when our company felt they were not to blame. This was to protect our brand. The cost of the solution in this case is far less than the consequence for the brands reputation. Usually as a benefit you form a strong ally that promotes your business if you do the right thing.

TAL has done a disservice to the brand and the customer and now somehow has them fighting amongst themselves. Epic needs to protect their brand, period. Make this go away and subrogate with TAL behind the scenes.
Old     (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       06-25-2015, 3:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by SICKSPEED View Post
On the contrary, Chris is pretending to be a hero and saying how "simple and easy" this is. Simple and easy for him. I figure out all this crap and he sends me a few parts and writes a couple checks. I`m stuck inspecting and documenting damages, taking pictures and videos, going back and forth with Epic, TAL and, multiple repair facilities coordinating travel, delivering parts, arranging repairs and scouting multiple repair shops to do the work.
FURTHERMORE I have ALREADY TOLD EPIC where the boat is and what is missing.
SEE ATTACHMENT.


Chris really just wants to know where the boat is to try to look good in court. He is only trying to do the absolute minimum and write a couple checks and send me more used parts out of his junk bin to save himself money wherever possible while he holds mine captive. This is a shady deal I rejected as soon as I found out the boat was a banged up, picked over, repo. This is a crooked ass deal and everyone knows it.
If you werent so blinded by your desperation to keep every penny of this sale you would think about the fact that this thread is permanent and will be seen by hundreds of your prospective buyers for 10 years to come. (Although I highly doubt you will be around that long.)
In your shortsightedness you will never even realize how many sales this actually cost you.



This is the best thread in years...so much to learn from this experience for sure.

Okay Lance Mountain (I love your pro model Powell Peralta Bones Brigade BTW, that board was the ish back in the early 90's). I really appreciate your point of view, and how passionate you are about some random dudes situation and how it affects a wakeboat company of which you have no association with other than owning one boat. Save for JJ, you are the most passionate person on this thread... very interesting.

For real though, I can only take Chris from Epic and JJ at their word, sometimes they are consistent, and others are inconsistent. It does appear that JJ is the more legit of the two, even backing up his claims with "evidence".

Lance, you say "Keep in mind there is no Mercury/Epic dealer anywhere close to JJ (again, poor choice)... Also, JJ believed he provided Epics entire company the boats location by sending the address to one person at Epic. And when Chris asked for where the boat is, he wasn't told, instead he was bad mouthed... "

But JJ's post from page 3 that I posted here offers up a different story.

I do not care either way, Epics fault, TAL's fault, JJ's fault. I just want to see the dude be able to use his boat for the rest of the summer, and am very un-impressed with the way Epic has handled this (their fault or not, the ball rolled onto their court, and they could have smashed it out of the park, but instead, they are tripping and tumbling all over the ball all while the grandstands are rapidly emptying)
Old     (Cabledog)      Join Date: Dec 2013       06-25-2015, 3:22 PM Reply   
+ 1 for Bones Brigade.
Old     (03suprassv)      Join Date: Jan 2009       06-25-2015, 5:07 PM Reply   


I'm here.
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       06-25-2015, 5:07 PM Reply   
Thanks for the guessing my last name and although I would love to have cool name like Lance Mountain, that is indeed not my name.

If passion is equal to posting in a thread, thanks I guess... Im just sick of this guy JJ bad mouthing one of the boating companys on WW. I couldnt care if it was a MB, MC, Yamaha, SeaDoo... When I see people go out of their way to complain and throw others under the bus, it gets under my skin, combine that with the extra time I had today on a conference call and the fact that I have some experience with Epic, similar to the other Chris posting, I wanted to give my opinion. Dont like it, move along fellow, nobody is holding you here.

Please expand on the "different story" from page 3 and enlighten us obi wan?

While you are unimpressed with Epic and TAL, Im completely unimpressed with this JJ guy. Poor choice after poor choice has put him in this situation all of his own doing. And I seriously think that all of you posting with anti Epic garbage are only doing it because of your hate for Epic and nothing else, which is a common theme here. "The boat is ugly, I wouldn't buy one before and I will not buy one now" is pretty old and tired as a response. Seriously, keep your old ski boat design wrapped in leather, leds, and speakers you bump your head into....

Regardless of how Epic ends up handling this, don't overestimate a few of you anti fan boys having any meaningful impact on Epic sales.. People like yourselves only want to buy (insert overpriced wake boat) and you are not the target Epic customer anyway. I'm sure there is no loss for them here, and lets be honest, none of us will ever learn the full story as I doubt JJ will post anything meaningful (as usual) and if I was Chris, I would just give this thread the bird and move along to solving issues CEO of companies do, laughing as I deposit my checks in the bank.

So, while Im out on the water next week (cause I know how to buy a new/used boat), the entire week on LBJ, wave or flick me off as I drive by in my ugly arse red Epic while I laugh at your lack of wake and 4k ballast lol...

LanceM

Last edited by LanceM; 06-25-2015 at 5:10 PM.
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       06-25-2015, 5:16 PM Reply   
Im done with the thread till:
1. JJ posts some pictures of the actual damage, not just "internet damage"
2. Chris posts an update and the problem is solved or pretty darn close
3. You (pointing at whoever reads this) has some good smack worthy of my reply lol

Lance MOUNTAIN!
Old     (superair502)      Join Date: Mar 2010       06-25-2015, 5:46 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancem View Post
thanks for the guessing my last name and although i would love to have cool name like lance mountain, that is indeed not my name.

If passion is equal to posting in a thread, thanks i guess... Im just sick of this guy jj bad mouthing one of the boating companys on ww. I couldnt care if it was a mb, mc, yamaha, seadoo... When i see people go out of their way to complain and throw others under the bus, it gets under my skin, combine that with the extra time i had today on a conference call and the fact that i have some experience with epic, similar to the other chris posting, i wanted to give my opinion. Dont like it, move along fellow, nobody is holding you here.

Please expand on the "different story" from page 3 and enlighten us obi wan?

While you are unimpressed with epic and tal, im completely unimpressed with this jj guy. Poor choice after poor choice has put him in this situation all of his own doing. And i seriously think that all of you posting with anti epic garbage are only doing it because of your hate for epic and nothing else, which is a common theme here. "the boat is ugly, i wouldn't buy one before and i will not buy one now" is pretty old and tired as a response. Seriously, keep your old ski boat design wrapped in leather, leds, and speakers you bump your head into....

Regardless of how epic ends up handling this, don't overestimate a few of you anti fan boys having any meaningful impact on epic sales.. People like yourselves only want to buy (insert overpriced wake boat) and you are not the target epic customer anyway. I'm sure there is no loss for them here, and lets be honest, none of us will ever learn the full story as i doubt jj will post anything meaningful (as usual) and if i was chris, i would just give this thread the bird and move along to solving issues ceo of companies do, laughing as i deposit my checks in the bank.

So, while im out on the water next week (cause i know how to buy a new/used boat), the entire week on lbj, wave or flick me off as i drive by in my ugly arse red epic while i laugh at your lack of wake and 4k ballast lol...

Lancem

lol
Old     (wakesk8er2)      Join Date: Mar 2002       06-25-2015, 6:08 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceM View Post
wave or flick me off as I drive by in my ugly arse red Epic while I laugh at your lack of wake and 4k ballast lol...

LanceM
It's not the size of your tanks, it's how your boat uses them
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       06-25-2015, 6:32 PM Reply   
That is EXACTLY what dudes with small tanks ALWAYS say ROFL

Lance MOUNTAIN
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-25-2015, 7:11 PM Reply   
Hey! I've been too busy finagling my way into a 2015 Malibu 22vlx demo that I haven't had time to check this thread. I will dedicate the time it deserves tomorrow to post some appropriate memes...
Old     (SICKSPEED)      Join Date: May 2015       06-25-2015, 8:30 PM Reply   
Holy crap, where do I start.
@ TX_Chris
1. Did you actually look at the low-res pics that TAL posted of the boat? Reminder that they were first posted in Feb. Looking at the boat you can see it has both tower pins, so one could have been lost in transit. Sure. Any other damage cannot be seen from these low-res pics. For example, you really think you can see spider-cracks on the swim step from 20 feet away in a 6" photo? Thats impossible. I can however, BARELY JUST BARELY make out the damage to the trailer and the missing light although its VERY hard to tell in the pic. (Great photos for selling damaged goods tho.) I will post pics from work when I have a chance and PROVE this to you. Btw if I was lying about the damage dont you think Chris would have mentioned this by now?

2. When I said I didnt blame Epic for the boats condition, I meant that they probably didnt go out and trash the boat themselves, and that the boat probably left their factory as a new boat should (at one point). What I dont like is that they they seem to allow their shoddy dealer network to get away with. There is no 180 here. Same as day one. You`re just interpreting my words a bit differently than they were intended. No worries.

3. TAL and BRAD from Epic were originally on the same page about the boat showing up at TAL missing parts and with some damage. LATER, in an email that I shared with you all here, Chris seemed to suggest that basically ALL the issues came from TALs "old guy with an Escalade" towing it to my house. You guys can draw whatever conclusion you like. If you want a better answer please ask Chris to elaborate. Maybe he can shed a little more light. Chris and I have disagreed in point of view but he has not called me a liar, and I also am not calling him one. I have no personal beef with him or Epic. (Like Lance seems to think.)

4. These really arent "warranty claims". Warranty is for parts that break during use. Please remember that I have yet to use this boat. It was sold to me as having one hour on the engine from a factory water test. When it got here the meter said "2 hours". Thats close enough for me.
This is a manufacturer backing up HIS AUTHORIZED DEALER who sold a boat that was grossly misrepresented (in my opinion). My point was that the boat was sold as a new boat and nothing less. The fact that it even HAS a warranty is irrelevant at this point.
Old     (SICKSPEED)      Join Date: May 2015       06-25-2015, 8:49 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceM View Post
Jason... That is exactly the way things should happen... And while that was the best result in your situation, I don't see alot of commonality with JJs..

That being said, I would like to point out what I have read and how I cant determine fact from fiction.

JJ stated he got a used ECU... Chris has never confirmed or denied this... Instead he chose to say the incorrect one was shipped... By incorrect, this could mean many things, a used one? The wrong model? Or both... We are missing facts... But he did ship one and tried to get the info to ship the next one, but did not receive any cooperation directly from JJ when asked, in fact, it was quite the opposite reaction from JJ.

There are mistakes here all over the place... Would I be able to get this fixed any sooner than JJ? Who knows... All I do know is, I would have handled this completely differently than him.... That does not mean Im a better person, just a different one...

LanceM
LanceM (aka Epic Fanboy),
First off thanks for hijacking my thread with 10 posts a day. Thats great.
I understand you call yourself an Epic Fanboy and that Chris and Epic can do no wrong in your eyes. Surely that makes me the scum of the earth and this is all MY FAULT simply because I didnt fly out to do a full inspection and compression-test a boat with 1 hour on the clock. Whatever.
If you notice that Chris is also posting on here and he has not once disputed one single fact I have posted. Sure we dont see eye to eye but that doesnt make one or the other a LIAR. For you to suggest that shows a lack of tact.
As far as my integrity goes, I have been called a liar on here 3 or 4 times already, and EACH TIME I have posted photographic proof that I was not lying. This time will be no different. Here is a pic of the used banged up ECU I was sent. Notice I wrote my name and the date so its not open for dispute. You can see the build date for yourself.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by SICKSPEED; 06-25-2015 at 8:52 PM.
Old     (SICKSPEED)      Join Date: May 2015       06-25-2015, 8:59 PM Reply   
One last thing. I would NEVER have agreed to buy this boat for ANYWHERE NEAR 60,000.00 if knew the truth about its history, damage, missing parts and overall disposition. Is that really so hard to fathom Lance? How can you pretend this a square deal?
Old     (Iceberg)      Join Date: Dec 2011       06-25-2015, 9:39 PM Reply   
JJ,

It may indeed be used or not, I don't know; but not to burst your bubble, an ECU/PCM can be new and still have a 2011 manufacturing date, especially if there haven't been any updates or the updates are flashable.

It is a shame the boat arrived at your door in the condition you posted, but all of this is minor, albeit frustrating. TAL and possible the shipper are culpable, but you were part of the problem for not doing your due diligence. As suggested, even having a survey done would have been very inexpensive to protect your interest. FWIW, in all of my dealings on large purchases I have always flown out to inspect the "new" or even used items before I transferred any large sums of money. 2 new cars from national dealerships, one used diesel truck from a small broker, a larger tractor from a financial company, and 2 larger boats (private sellers) all got the once over before I handed over the cash or transferred the money.

For others considering not doing a pre-purchase inspection (even for a new boat) or not getting the seller to prove the working/cosmetic condition (recent dating) and providing some form of surety in the event of a problem; please understand that even though you have a contract for sale, you still need to be able to enforce it should there be a problem, including returning the item for a full refund. Of course then you have to fight over the shipping cost!

$60k was a smoking deal on this boat. Even if it was a few $$ more it was still a good buy. Everything you have complained about can be fixed good as new. Determining who is responsible for some of the repairs or missing parts is another matter. Based on the photos TAL provided, it either deteriorated quickly on the lot or It would seem the shipping company may have the largest part in problems you are reporting.

Last edited by Iceberg; 06-25-2015 at 9:46 PM.
Old     (SICKSPEED)      Join Date: May 2015       06-25-2015, 10:37 PM Reply   
Iceberg,
Good point. That is a possibility, but it was also confirmed by Epic as being used (after I received it and asked about it).
Again, the "authorized dealer" was also the shipper in this case. So the buck will stop there.
To have an authorized dealer of a new product that offers to sell and deliver them from coast to coast yet doesnt "know how" to do that is beyond fathomable for me. I`m not sure how anyone is still trying to defend that.
Again I respect the opinion many of you believe its best to fly out to look at even a new vehicle but regardless of best practices in buying, the act of selling one thing and delivering another is not excusable, and I`m simply not going to lie down and be taken advantage of. I`m simply standing up for myself.
I can promise you this is story is still far from over.
Old     (Shockthis)      Join Date: May 2014       06-26-2015, 4:06 AM Reply   
Man , I had a way worse experience with a company. I spent my energy getting it resolved , instead of posting on wakeworld. Posting on here is not going to help your situation. Have you ever heard the saying about catching flys with honey? anyway your are starting to sound like a like complainer. Good luck. FYI not many companies would take the boat back for this, they will just fix it.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       06-26-2015, 4:21 AM Reply   
We don't know what is going on behind the scenes. I took it that JJ wouldn't mind a replacement but that he also really just wants this boat fixed so he can get on the water. Some of you guys make me shake my head. A new boat shows up missing parts and neither the dealer or epic have made it right in over a month during prime boating season. It's that simple and it sucks.
Old     (LanceM)      Join Date: Jun 2014       06-26-2015, 5:55 AM Reply   
JJ
Are you really going to complain about the popularity of your thread now? I do not call myself an EPIC FAN BOY, you did twice. And I have pointed out a couple of things that Epic has done incorrectly or that we do not know about. This is your fault as the problem started off with your poor choices, funny that you still don't feel like you have any responsibility in this. What I notice in the postings I have read between you and Chris is that you have slowly become more and more hostile. Now you even accuse me of calling you a "LIAR" lol, it not me showing the lack of tact buddy...

I did not ask for a picture of ECU that was sent out to you, so why is this relevant? I don't believe a single person here did. I and maybe others have asked for pictures of all this "damage" you claim from the first post? Where is it? I asked for pix on the first page?

Now to the picture you did post... Iceberg pointed out some things and I am going to be completely honest, how it is banged up or used? It looks more new to me and but I'm just some poor Epic fan boy I guess? But I don't see used and banged up???

Now lets take a look at some of the things you have written...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SICKSPEED View Post
Again, the "authorized dealer" was also the shipper in this case. So the buck will stop there.
Not with you... The buck hasn't stopped at TAL at all, bee lined it straight to Epic...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SICKSPEED View Post
To have an authorized dealer of a new product that offers to sell and deliver them from coast to coast yet doesn't "know how" to do that is beyond fathomable for me. I`m not sure how anyone is still trying to defend that.
Beyond fathomable to you???? For real???? Listen, people reading this can say whatever they want about me JJ, probably like yourself, at the end of the day, either of us don't really care... But JJ, cmon man, I don't think there is a single person reading this thread that would agree with what you have said. Texas Auto Liquidators knowing how to properly ship boats???? They cant even get the BRAND correct ie Mastercraft Epic (still cracks me up). The name alone would scare the piss out of me, a simple google search would have reveled everything an informed consumer would need to know. But your more shifty than Clinton, man nothing sticks to you. You did nothing wrong, and everyone in the entire world (including me I guess) is out to stick it to ya.

As for me accusing you of having some personal beef with Epic, I dont. I believe still that you bought this boat for 20k less than retail thinking you got the deal of the century only to find out, your the one that hosed. Like Chris_TX says, we all make mistakes like this in our lives, hopefully not with 60k lol. I cant afford to many of those mistakes. I would work with Epic to get the ECU fixed, codes fixed, and stereo working. The other things, I would attempt to recoup some money from the great evil TAL but lets be honest, that prob isn't going to happen. Would I then go after Epic for the stupid crap TAL did during shipping? I don't think I could and not feel dirty for it. I would bring it to Epics attention and see if they were interested in making it right, but I would not pursue it after that.

I'm a project guy, and I would try and do some of the repairs myself, Gel coat is not impossible to fix and I could give it a good $10 effort. If you have read some of the other Epic threads, you might even understand why I was asking for pix of the damage early on in this thread. I was going to try and help ya get the boat running, because I did feel sorry for you in the beginning, like it or not. Why? Because you did buy an Epic and I completely understand now that I bet you HATE the boat lol, don't blame you if I was in your shoes, but people with the same brand boats generally stick together, share info and resources, etc. We already know at about page 3, I begin to see a change in your behavior that changed mine. Chris (from Epic), he has to be somewhat political here in a public forum, but I don't. I have dealt with Chris, Brad and Bryan from Epic and while I don't feel Ive been given any "special" treatment like I guess other (insert overpriced wake boat) manufacturers, I have been helped and in an acceptable time frame. I think we all know Epic isn't some large boat company like others on here that have 2 or 3 different brand names for the boats they made. Chris started the idea of Epic in his garage and built the first boat out of freaking foam. I have respect for that and him. Yeah I get the backside of Epics might not be for everyone, but most that know the story, respect it.

So, when you come in here, making all the poor choices you made and then act the way you have begun to act, it gets me motivated to post 10 in a day, and let me be honest, not all 10 posts were about you. This is a public forum. You can send private messages between yourself and Chris if you wanted, but your own dirty laundry is still being put on display by you (not me). If you don't like what is happening here, leave, its a choice you can make. I have asked for more specific info from you about your dealings and I have asked for pix of all this damage about 5 times now, and its not like you don't know how to post a picture.

Its not LanceM aka Epic Fanboy, its now...

Lance MOUNTAIN

PS only half day at work today and all conference calls so anti epic fan boys, you have my complete attention till 11am, then I'm off to Canyon Lake!
Old     (racer808)      Join Date: Jan 2013       06-26-2015, 6:00 AM Reply   
Good god Lance, why don't you run along & write a book about how awesome your own farts smell. Just try to make it less long winded as your posts on this subject

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