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Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-12-2014, 11:29 AM Reply   
To be clear, you guys are complaining about the tiny waves that you see behind the wave in this picture?
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Old     (larry1167)      Join Date: Jun 2010       09-12-2014, 11:30 AM Reply   
Migs is 100% correct in his statement about the difference btwn wakeboard wakes and wakesurf wakes and how they dissipate. I miss the good ole days at the delta.
Old     (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: SF Bay Area       09-12-2014, 11:34 AM Reply   
^^^"tiny waves" I can count 5 in that pic. When that boat passes and continues on, there will be about 20+ of those following the boat.
Any boat that comes up that line will just porpoise up & down for the length of the run.
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-12-2014, 11:36 AM Reply   
So just to clarify, you are going 20+ mph while wakeboarding and surfing is 10-12 mph, correct? Go the F around the boat and stop whining! It's not YOUR water, it's every single boat out there's water. How many of you in this thread are pro wakeboarder's doing this for a living? 0 is my guess because I have rarely seen the pro's post in this forum because they are too busy riding in Orlando on their perfect lakes to be on here complaining about another sport.

HAHAHA!
Old     (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-12-2014, 11:41 AM Reply   
^^ pros that also surf.lol.
Old     (larry1167)      Join Date: Jun 2010       09-12-2014, 11:42 AM Reply   
Timmy- you should be able to tell the difference when you turn to pick up your rider when wake surfing compared to picking up a rider when wakeboarding. It's pretty obvious. No reason to get angry. It is what it is. I don't have a problem finding good water but you don't have to be a pro to enjoy good water.
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-12-2014, 11:47 AM Reply   
I'm not angry at all! This thread just cracks me up, not only because it has been done many times on here before but because people continue to whine and complain and act like it's their personal space as soon as they hit the water with their boat.
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-12-2014, 11:51 AM Reply   
No, I don't notice any difference at all when picking up a downed rider. I always turn the boat to the opposite side that I am going to turn, let the wake roll by and then turn to get my rider. If I am picking up ccw, I turn right first, let the roller go by and then turn left and pick up the rider and then there isn't any wake to deal with no matter which type of rider I am picking up.
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       09-12-2014, 11:52 AM Reply   
timmyb, look at the horizontal swell that goes across from wake to wake. Of course from the angle of the above picture, it doesn't look like much. I can assure that while pulling a wakeboarder, it will cause significant bouncing.

It's not the end of the world, but it's certainly considerably worse than wakeboarding.
Old     (sprocketeer)      Join Date: Nov 2012       09-12-2014, 11:54 AM Reply   
The next thread down "Loaded G21", all of the pure wakeboarders are drooling over the massive wake the the "G's" put out - but surfing is ruining everyones water.
Funny...
Old     (larry1167)      Join Date: Jun 2010       09-12-2014, 11:55 AM Reply   
True. I've been through it many times being an old skier. Same old same old. You just didn't seem to get the difference cause it is big. Have fun out there.
Old     (MICAH_HARPER)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-12-2014, 12:01 PM Reply   
WakeWorld Wakeboarders be like
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Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-12-2014, 12:04 PM Reply   
What are these large waves following the bigger one?
Old     (MICAH_HARPER)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-12-2014, 12:09 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyb View Post
So just to clarify, you are going 20+ mph while wakeboarding and surfing is 10-12 mph, correct? Go the F around the boat and stop whining! It's not YOUR water, it's every single boat out there's water. How many of you in this thread are pro wakeboarder's doing this for a living? 0 is my guess because I have rarely seen the pro's post in this forum because they are too busy riding in Orlando on their perfect lakes to be on here complaining about another sport.

HAHAHA!
i Hope this will make it easier for some people.
Just follow the RED line Please.


surf boat 11mph
wake boat 23 mph.

Twice as fast.
Go around
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Old     (brhanley)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-12-2014, 1:10 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyb View Post
LOL! What does that mean? At some point you come to the end of the lake and have to make a turn to go back the other way? Pretty sure ALL watersports do that.
Yes and mostly no. Wakeboarders and skiers tend to ski one line back and forth...yes they turn around at the end, but they then get back in their line and the wakes from the turn quickly dissipate. Wakesurfers, at least on my lake (at least when my lake had water in it), tend to drive at a constant turn to make the surf wake better (eventually leading to half circle type lines), and generally don't seem to stay in any set line. This ends up throwing rollers (both wakes and the rollers described by Migs) every which way. Those are the facts.
Old     (allzway)      Join Date: Feb 2014       09-12-2014, 1:14 PM Reply   
Love the diagram. It might be too complicated for some though.
Old     (brhanley)      Join Date: Jun 2001       09-12-2014, 1:14 PM Reply   
In any event, go Wake Island and Velocity Island Park...safe havens!!!
Old     (larry1167)      Join Date: Jun 2010       09-12-2014, 1:36 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardjnky4 View Post
timmyb, look at the horizontal swell that goes across from wake to wake. Of course from the angle of the above picture, it doesn't look like much. I can assure that while pulling a wakeboarder, it will cause significant bouncing.

It's not the end of the world, but it's certainly considerably worse than wakeboarding.
Exactly! That's what I am talking about. The big horizontal swell that is created even if you are driving straight while wakesurfing.

This horizontal swell affects the riding line in tight water such as the delta sloughs and on rivers.

This is not a complaint. It's just reality and you gotta deal with it. I wakesurf on occasion behind my friends boats but we consciously try to stay out of good water and in the larger parts of the lake where it's chopped up already. It's a pipe dream to expect everyone to do this so you just gotta adjust.
Old     (nailem)      Join Date: Apr 2011       09-12-2014, 1:44 PM Reply   
like I said in my prior post. some of you are narrowly looking at your lake and assuming all lakes are the same. I went to Deep Creek lake Maryland this year and for the first time ever saw what everyone talks about with power turns. I have never seem this on my home lake or the 5 other lakes I have been to. these idiots where wakeboarding 20ft off the docks and when the rider would fall never let off and then circle the rider to pick him up. Deep creek had the largest group of idiots on the water I have ever seen.
there is a small cove in the bay of lake Erie and I can surf back there all day long and the water never gets stirred up. I typically run in a straight line but can give it a slight turn and the water stays flat.
Norris Lake I can surf in the same area all day. the wave hits the shore and that's it. it stops, no rebound.
if your wakeboarding at 20+mph on a small lake your most likely getting to the end of the lake faster than I am at 10.5mph so you would need to do more turning around than I would a little more than twice as many trips back and forth across the lake.
I still say the wakeboard wake stirs up the water just as much as surfing.
Old     (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: SF Bay Area       09-12-2014, 2:13 PM Reply   
Cant go around surfer safely here at the delta on the sloughs that we goto to wakeboard & ski.
When 10 - 15 wakeboarders & skiers can enjoy this slough all together & everyone gets great water. You get 1 surfer, its over for everyone.
Why does a surfer want to surf here in this particular slough? They have hundreds of miles of delta to surf on, why here? These sloughs give wakeboarders & skiers great water that can be shared by many, thus its prime location for riders.
Does it benefit a surfer to surf here ?
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Old     (MICAH_HARPER)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-12-2014, 2:21 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by migs View Post
Cant go around surfer safely here at the delta on the sloughs that we goto to wakeboard & ski.
When 10 - 15 wakeboarders & skiers can enjoy this slough all together & everyone gets great water. You get 1 surfer, its over for everyone.
Why does a surfer want to surf here in this particular slough? They have hundreds of miles of delta to surf on, why here? These sloughs give wakeboarders & skiers great water that can be shared by many, thus its prime location for riders.
Does it benefit a surfer to surf here ?
im sure they are thinking the same thing you are...why are they wakeboarding here.


first of all no way 15 boats are using that one area in the pic
Old     (MICAH_HARPER)      Join Date: Apr 2010       09-12-2014, 2:22 PM Reply   
but hey......i gave yall a diagram. and thats all i have.

last post on this
Old     (migs)      Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: SF Bay Area       09-12-2014, 2:23 PM Reply   
Come to the delta - 15 boats share that slough all day.
Old     (99Bison)      Join Date: Sep 2012       09-12-2014, 2:36 PM Reply   
I'm in the camp that 90% of people on the water around my parts don't understand what they are doing is ripping up the entire lake for everyone, themselves included. The next 5% don't care. Typically we see - surfing in calmest water possible, surfing in all directions, surfing on the continuous curve, surfing in shallow, tubing in the calmest water possible, tubing the entire lake in random paths, the few wakeboarding happening is done in circles, and jetski mania.

The skiers tend to be the most considerate of others and a few wakeboarders are. These are the last 5%.

I tend to make a point about telling everyone that comes out about being considerate of everyone else trying to use the water and what type of water is best for the given activities.
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-12-2014, 2:38 PM Reply   
Why can't the wakesurfer have butter? Sure is a lot easier to do tricks on butter than it is rough water. I know you wakeboarders don't think the surfer needs it but they want it just like the wakeboarder doesn't need it but wants it.
Old     (kx250frider617)      Join Date: Aug 2013       09-12-2014, 3:47 PM Reply   
I wonder how many wake surfers can actually Surf for real? haha.
Old     (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-12-2014, 3:55 PM Reply   
All of your whining has convinced me to stop surfing...good job.

I have been surfing on my lake for several years know and I never see anyone driving in circles to try and make a better wave. That concept has been completely debunked.
Old     (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-12-2014, 3:59 PM Reply   
Also I love the idea that physics and thermodynamics don't apply to the very special waves produced for wakeboarding. Guess what? You send rollers too. Maybe not in a narrow ass slew but out on an open lake you sure ass hell do. Just look at the loaded G21 pic for reference and you'll see several rollers behind the wave. Oh and for what it is worth those are coming off both sides of the boat. But hey its okay those dissipate in seconds...LMFAO
Old     (seth)      Join Date: Sep 2002       09-12-2014, 4:41 PM Reply   
You guys really dont know the difference between wakesurf and wakeboard rollers?? Good water cannot be shared with a wakesurf boat. So when a wakesurfer goes down railroads (that slough) or to the calm water on the lake they are essentially telling anybody wakeboarding or skiing to get lost and this is their water now. That is my perspective, being a considerate boater.
Old     (pipeboarder)      Join Date: Sep 2003       09-12-2014, 5:04 PM Reply   
i also agree that the rollers for wakesurfing follow the boat. why do .you think the surf tabs stick straight out on the side? they pull the water forward. you need water rolling forward (at an angle of course) to be able to surf. otherwise you would surf away from the boat not following the boat.

i agree all lakes are different. maybe at a large lake it doesnt matter if its a wakesurf wake or a wakeboard wake. whether the wakes are the same size or not, they have the whole lake to travel in any direction.

at the delta it definitely matters. and migs is totally correct. yes 15 boats share the same slough all day. yes when one of those is a wakesurfer it ruins it for everybody else. yes there is tons of delta everywhere else that you can go. quite a few other slews are pretty buttery often too, that arent used by wakeboarders much.

try following a wakesurf boat there at the delta, the rollers definitely are a serious pain to follow compared to any wakeboard wake i've ever had to cross paths with. they follow the path of the boat, which makes it much worse and much longer to get around (plus it makes it harder for the rider when the boat rolls over those things one... at.. a .... time.... yanking the rope forward and back.)

it is seriously much harder to go around a wakesurf boat at the delta. I've come up behind a wakesurfer numerous times, and had to drop my wakeboarder because there was no way i could go around safely, and they are going too slow to stay behind them.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-12-2014, 5:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by 99Bison View Post
I tend to make a point about telling everyone that comes out about being considerate of everyone else trying to use the water and what type of water is best for the given activities.
I am totally a voice of reason / "can't we all just get along" kind of guy in 99% of my daily life. But not on the lake ever. The number of drunk A-holes on my lake (or any lake I have ever been on) necessitates keeping my mouth shut and finding my own space. Americans generally are pretty self entitled (one need only read this thread for evidence), but add a six pack of busch light to the mix, and they are downright belligerent.

I'm just glad our lake is big and unpopulated enough that this can be my average sunday away from the crowds:





Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-12-2014, 5:41 PM Reply   
That's how it's done right there, Shawndoggy!
Old     (tdc_worm)      Join Date: Sep 2002       09-14-2014, 7:44 AM Reply   
It's hilarious that wakesurfers get butt hurt when long-liners belly ache about smooth water. Yawn, we all know that we all have equal rights to public water ways. It's even more hilarious that wakesurfers think that they have no more impact on the environment or other boaters. Passing a wakesurfer coming from the opposite direction is more jarring than hitting a triple up. I have seen boats submarine in that situation, but have never seen it happen from passing a slammed wakeboard wake. Wakesurfing forces oncoming vessels to slow down in order to protect their vessel and to protect their own rider.

At the end of the day, the two cannot exist on a narrow body of water. The one that can tolerate rougher water the easiest will win out. Hence the proliferation in wakesurfing. That proliferation and desire for the epic inland wave will also be wakesurfing's undoing on narrow bodies as it's impact is destructive to other peoples property.
Old     (bftskir)      Join Date: Jan 2004       09-14-2014, 1:21 PM Reply   
It really pisses me off when im out in the delta and a 600ft cargo ship comes by leaving some big stern rollers
Old     (you_da_man)      Join Date: Sep 2009       09-14-2014, 6:09 PM Reply   
So if "the Delta" has so many riding spots and one surf boat ruins YOUR spot for 15 other boats, how come you don't move to the "so many" other spots that are available?
Old     (Blueliner)      Join Date: Sep 2013       09-14-2014, 7:10 PM Reply   
It waited over 20 years to get a boat, my "ship" finally came in this year. Im 48 and would rather wakesurf, but I am currently mostly driving the boat while my kids wakeboard and tube. I feel like I have been had sometimes. I do take my turn on the wakeboard when we are getting lessons instead of whining or declining. Most of my friends are soft they would never try any of this. What a privilege.
Old     (Orange)      Join Date: Jun 2012       09-14-2014, 10:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by boardjnky4 View Post
Yep, storytime. I need to vent.

So I wakeboard with a Team (we compete at local INT, everything from beginner to outlaw in terms of rider skill), and I like to do my best to help the younger newbies out because I love to see people progress. So we have a 13 year old girl who is just getting started wakeboarding riding on the team. She couldn't go wake to wake up until this point. Her stepdad has an A22 with 1100 sacs on the plug n play. Whenever she rides, he always fills to capacity and it takes like a minute and a half to get the thing on plane. Wake is ridiculous. This is boat she is trying to go w2w behind. Stepdad sees no problem and encourages her.

So one day, after much of her struggling, I take her out behind a friend's boat with no parents around. Me, my wife and a friend. When it comes her time to ride, I tell the driver, dump the ballast. She insists she wants it full. I said no. And here's the thing, at the INT comps, they put ZERO ballast in the boat for her division. So I explain that to her, "At competition, the boat wont have ballast, so you need to ride without ballast". She doesn't fight me too much on it. Then I shorten the rope to 50 feet. She fights me again, "put it at 65 feet", she says. Again, I tell her no, that we are going to slow the boat down since there is no ballast and it will be too wide at 65 feet. Eventually she gives in to that argument.

Finally gets in the water, we tweak the speed here and there, give her some pointers for 15-20 minutes, BAM, she goes wake to wake. She was stoked and we got it on video. I was proud of her, she did a great job and she was riding a setup that matched her skill level.

Next day, her step-dad calls me and the first thing he says is, "I didn't know you were gonna have her go wake to wake behind a jet ski wake." I was floored, he's just being completely ignorant to what it takes to progress in this sport. Worst of all, he's going to get his step-daughter injured. I don't know if she's gone wake to wake since then.
I agree with the sentiment. Too many people take hard crashes because they are getting bad advice on how to learn safely.

That said and to the point of the original post, there is no denying that wakeboarding is a more violent sport than wakesurfing. If you wakeboard, even if you are smart about your progression and learn the right way (as you're describing), it's a matter of when not if you'll take a hard crash. Smart coaching can greatly minimize the risk, but there is no doubt the risk of a blown ACL, concussion, broken rib, etc. is notably higher wakeboarding than wakesurfing.

I think for that reason wakesurfing will continue to dominate new boat design and discussion. 40 and 50 year olds are the ones that can afford new, modern wake boats, and 40-50 year olds are the ones most concerned about dinging their bodies. I am a 40-50 year old myself and wish it weren't true because I like wakeboarding so much more than wakesurfing, but I can watch what is happening to my body and my friends bodies and can see where wakeboarding soon won't be part of our lives. It sucks.
Old     (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       09-14-2014, 10:52 PM Reply   
If it weren't for wakesurfing, I wouldn't be on this forum today. I have wakeboarded since I was 15, going on 30 now. For ages 15-20, I was out several times a week all summer. After I was in my 20s, I only would go out about 3-4 times a year, if that. It just seemed to have gotten stale, there wasn't much that excited me anymore. I would get a few runs in each time, do my little handful of tricks and be happy, but it was getting old so I stopped going as much.
Since last year, when a friend of mine got a boat and got me hooked on wakesurfing, I have been more enthusiastic about getting on the water. More time on the water also means more time wakeboarding and more time enjoying being out in general. I have a renewed passion for all water sports now because of wakesurfing bringing me back into it.

I suffered a knee injury that put me out of commission for almost 3 months this past winter. No work, no anything. Just doctor's visits, rest, and physical therapy appointments. After I was cleared for work, I started on my own path to self improvement, knowing that even if I couldn't get my strength back in my knee enough to wakeboard like I normally do, that I would be able to wakesurf and not have my summer shot. I have gotten past that and can do both just fine, and in fact even better. But had I not had wakesurfing as a "at least I can get to this point" goal, I might not have pushed myself as hard to get back into shape and just let the whole summer go to waste. Now I am back doing both as often as I can get out.

I still plan on doing both for years to come, I enjoy surfing more, and I know that after I get older and not in as great condition, that I will still be wakesurfing. I don't think that is going to be for a long time though, as my dad is 60 and still slaloms regularly at 30mph+. I got good genes for this addiction.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       09-15-2014, 12:33 AM Reply   
Just wait until the guys who now surf are too old and tired to surf. That's when they'll buy those big ole 40' cruisers to enjoy the waterways with. They'll be laughing, BBQing, passing the Grey Poupon and swamping your boats as they pass you by. Won't matter if you surf or board. It's the circle of life, Simba...
Old     (pipeboarder)      Join Date: Sep 2003       09-16-2014, 8:26 AM Reply   
Forgive me if i came off rude or much like the "wakeworld hate". that was not my intent. I was just trying to share my opinion that the waves most definitely are different, and if they seem the same to you, try riding in narrow places and maybe you see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by you_da_man View Post
So if "the Delta" has so many riding spots and one surf boat ruins YOUR spot for 15 other boats, how come you don't move to the "so many" other spots that are available?
if it gets bad enough out there, we do move to another slough. and move again if that one is bad. and we don't do so with anger or hate.

If it isnt so bad, we deal with a couple large waves here and there and try to orient ourselves so that we are not coming up behind slower boats that are harder to go around (meaning cutting across the slough and going the other direction if we have to.) Or we wait it out a while before pulling up a rider to give lots and lots of space for the other boat. This goes for any boat throwing huge rollers or whatever or is hard to go around.

in my opinion that is doing the best we can to share and make the best of it.

we most definitely don't go around yelling at people telling they cant do this here (which i have had a lady do to me all livid like yelling at me i couldnt tow an innertube on indian slough and that i would get a ticket for doing so. that i had to do it on a straighter calmer slough like vics. maybe it has to do a little with the ignorant people?)

to me it just seems that this is kinda that "*** off" mentality mentioned before "at the delta". you already have a bunch of boats riding in harmony in one place, why the one boat come and basically ask everybody else to leave? like i said, we most definitely deal with it, or leave if we dont like it. but it just seems rude to me.

also, i have a few honest questions. i have wakesurfed in the past, but it is not my thing. i don't do it often. when i do it with my buddy on his boat, we most definitely DO go to another slough. many sloughs are much more windy than others. (like 's' turns, not blowing wind)
some are more chop.
is wakesurfing not easier to deal with in both those situations?
it's a pain to have to time your jumps as a wakeboarder just so you can get your one or two jumps in before the slough changes directions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Just wait until the guys who now surf are too old and tired to surf. That's when they'll buy those big ole 40' cruisers to enjoy the waterways with. They'll be laughing, BBQing, passing the Grey Poupon and swamping your boats as they pass you by. Won't matter if you surf or board. It's the circle of life, Simba...
you do get these guys passing by at the delta. i had one the other day, i can around the turn at the end of the slough right behind one... he was going like 10 mph or something. pretty slow. i picked a side to go around, although it didnt look like fun. as i get pretty close he cuts in front of me towards the weeds, all i could do was stop and drop the rider. as soon as i did that, he gunned it and took off. maybe he had no clue... but i watched his wife watch the whole thing and not say anything. felt like it was a purposeful d!ck move but who knows. whatever. life goes on. you just go "sorry buddy" and come back around and get your guy.
Old     (nailem)      Join Date: Apr 2011       09-16-2014, 9:00 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by pipeboarder View Post
you do get these guys passing by at the delta. i had one the other day, i can around the turn at the end of the slough right behind one... he was going like 10 mph or something. pretty slow. i picked a side to go around, although it didnt look like fun. as i get pretty close he cuts in front of me towards the weeds, all i could do was stop and drop the rider. as soon as i did that, he gunned it and took off. maybe he had no clue... but i watched his wife watch the whole thing and not say anything. felt like it was a purposeful d!ck move but who knows. whatever. life goes on. you just go "sorry buddy" and come back around and get your guy.
I do think most boaters are just ignorant. Most do not belong on the water. We all have stories of this. I can say I always try to respect someone else's spot on the water, no mater what they are doing. even if they are pulling their kids on a tub I do not need to be in that space. I cant stand when I am pulling my kids in the large lakes that I use and some idiot has to start doing circles around me when there is literally miles of open water.
it is not so much of a wakeboard/wakesurf thing as a ignorant captain that should not be on the water or an entitled American thing where they just don't care about anyone but them selves.

as I said I have never seen such a concentration of dip shi** as I did on Deep Creek Maryland. We had a wakeboarder come to the area we we in surfing and had been for hours and ride right up the back of us then cross over the wave within 30ft. they then turned in front of us and turn to head back where they came from. pulling a rider the whole time.
Old     (allzway)      Join Date: Feb 2014       09-16-2014, 9:26 AM Reply   
Locally, it seems most of the regular folks all understand that the good water is first come first serve, especially on windy days when there are limited spots to hide from the wind... and that includes tubers, skiers(not many of those anymore), boarders, or surfers.

On the holiday weekends is when this sort of falls apart when all the folks that only go out 2-3 times a year boating....they are usually the ones that shouldn't own a boat in the first place and are the majority of your knuckleheads.
Old     (patrick)      Join Date: Apr 2003       09-16-2014, 12:20 PM Reply   
Yep, Wakesurfing rollers really kill the water quick. Used to be tubers. Most people really IN to water sports take the time to understand driving lines and being able to share lanes and have some sort of boat etiquette.

Wakesurfing is easy instant gratification that your grandma can do in 3 tries. And I agree the only water activity more boring is being in the boat watching someone wakesurf. I don't understand why so many new people buy $70k boats for this pre-school kiddy ride. It's like buying a BMW M5 and never shifting out of 1st. What's the point? Selfie? Fine 1st couple times. New to water sports? Fine 1st couple times. But besides that, that's a damn expensive sport with like no ROI.

Surfing, Wakeboarding, Wakeskating, Air Chairs (whatever they're called), barefoot, slalom skiing, snow skiing, snow boarding have great fun ROI. I'm not sure what wakesurfing could really be compared to...

And it is not tubing for grown arse adults! Tubing can be way extreme. We used to "battle" tube with 2 tow lines attached to the tower on the single person tubes that can be easily flipped. Not the Costco 4 person almost impossible to throw people off the tube, and we found a new driving technique to get really good air. We did stop however when my friend got about 3 feet of air and I came into the wake afterwards and got about 6 feet of air and landed on top of him and fractured his neck.

I'm 43 and have been skurfing in High School, started wakeboarding in the 90s and still do it whenever I can, and my son is wakeboarding the "right" way as was described earlier in this thread.

I also agree that everyone should enjoy the water as they see fit, but man...lame...
Old     (rockballer)      Join Date: Jun 2014       09-16-2014, 12:43 PM Reply   
Can we keep posts to one page only.... that woul be great... thanks
Old     (seth)      Join Date: Sep 2002       09-16-2014, 1:42 PM Reply   
Do you even surf, bro? http://www.dailysurfvideos.com/video...rfing-sessions

No wakesurf plate needed.
Old     (lfadam)      Join Date: Nov 2008       09-16-2014, 4:04 PM Reply   
Pretty depressing reality check for me. I had no idea wakesurfers would even be a significant minority on wakeworld, much less anywhere near the majority. This thread seems pretty split down the middle.

I am REALLY glad that where I ride this isn't a problem yet at all. Despite being a busy lake, I maybe see one wakesurfer every week or two in any of the 3 coves around our house. Might see 1 a day on the main lake (which is awesome, they aren't disturbing anyone out there). My preferred riding spot is a narrow cove long enough for about 8 tricks while wakeboarding. Doesn't make sense to surf in there and turn around all the time when there are larger more exposed coves nearby. I surf maybe once or twice a year, usually in a big cove that is borderline too exposed for wakeboarding (main channel rollers). If there was a skier or wakeboarder, I would move to the main lake.

I don't know what I would/will do if this trend continues and surfers surpass the jetskiers/tubers that are the significant pest around here. I agree that the stern rollers make a wakeboarder/skier bounce enough (combined with the speed difference) to make it impossible to share a cove with them. I just hope our lake continues to be a magical place where wakesurfers are rare and seem to be quite courteous to surf in more open water.
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-16-2014, 4:27 PM Reply   
I wonder if MC is going to switch to wakesurfing now?
http://www.wakeworld.com/news/latest...oard-tour.html
Old     (Redheadd)      Join Date: Apr 2014       09-16-2014, 5:00 PM Reply   
Seriously you all are being nice. If it's 8 am and your surfing in glass I'm gonna ask you politely to stop and if you ignore me there is gonna be problems. Total lack of respect doing something that requires zero skill. You wanna be a dip shiiit Wally do after 10.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       09-16-2014, 5:09 PM Reply   
LOL, wakeboarding , surfing, tubing is a Fing Hobby, if you feel so compelled to bash any activity, (yes none are sports) water activity, ranks below 99% of the activities that exist. Stop being pricks and realize this is a past time, a time waster, something to enjoy with friends on the water and nothing more. wake boarding has no more respect than wake surfing or tubing, skiing etc etc. Its suppose to be about a small niche of people who enjoy boating and being around other boaters enjoying the water and boarding activity.

Guys, give it up, its not about you,haahaha no one gives 2 sh@its about this industry but us. We are the ones keeping it alive. Boat builders are raping us. We are fools for paying what we pay, we look like the tool bags of the water. 90% of the people are out with there children, swimming, there stereo's are not even on. they don't care about the water quality, they care about spending a day off work with there family and friends, have some respect for yourself and understand who the majority are making fun of, US (then the BAJA, joe bag o donuts going 80 mph everywhere)
Old     (cassidyb)      Join Date: Feb 2012       09-17-2014, 12:15 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redheadd View Post
Seriously you all are being nice. If it's 8 am and your surfing in glass I'm gonna ask you politely to stop and if you ignore me there is gonna be problems. Total lack of respect doing something that requires zero skill. You wanna be a dip shiiit Wally do after 10.
this is easily the stupidest thing ive ever read on WW, get a grip you tool.
Old     (nailem)      Join Date: Apr 2011       09-17-2014, 4:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
LOL, wakeboarding , surfing, tubing is a Fing Hobby, if you feel so compelled to bash any activity, (yes none are sports) water activity, ranks below 99% of the activities that exist. Stop being pricks and realize this is a past time, a time waster, something to enjoy with friends on the water and nothing more. wake boarding has no more respect than wake surfing or tubing, skiing etc etc. Its suppose to be about a small niche of people who enjoy boating and being around other boaters enjoying the water and boarding activity.

Guys, give it up, its not about you,haahaha no one gives 2 sh@its about this industry but us. We are the ones keeping it alive. Boat builders are raping us. We are fools for paying what we pay, we look like the tool bags of the water. 90% of the people are out with there children, swimming, there stereo's are not even on. they don't care about the water quality, they care about spending a day off work with there family and friends, have some respect for yourself and understand who the majority are making fun of, US (then the BAJA, joe bag o donuts going 80 mph everywhere)
Well said!!
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-17-2014, 7:10 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redheadd View Post
Seriously you all are being nice. If it's 8 am and your surfing in glass I'm gonna ask you politely to stop and if you ignore me there is gonna be problems. Total lack of respect doing something that requires zero skill. You wanna be a dip shiiit Wally do after 10.
Yup, there would definitely be problems...for you! "Hello? Mr. Ranger? This man thinks he's a tough guy and owns the lake and I think he was touching that child over there inappropriately". And back to doing whatever I want as you are being questioned by them for hours.
Old     (Redheadd)      Join Date: Apr 2014       09-17-2014, 7:15 AM Reply   
Ya we all know now. Timmy you got the mark of a squealer. SNITCH
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-17-2014, 9:12 AM Reply   
LOL! Ooooohhhh, I'm so offended! HAHAHA!

So you're more like Kevin Costner in that Water World movie then? Driving your boat around like a pirate thug on the lake regulating the butter destroyers?
Old     (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-17-2014, 10:32 AM Reply   
Redheadd, are you serious???? Exactly what do you think you can do to stop me riding at 8am??? Absolutley NOTHING!!!! ROTFLMFAO!!! I would love for some tool to come and tell me to leave a public lake!
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       09-17-2014, 10:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redheadd View Post
Seriously you all are being nice. If it's 8 am and your surfing in glass I'm gonna ask you politely to stop and if you ignore me there is gonna be problems. Total lack of respect doing something that requires zero skill. You wanna be a dip shiiit Wally do after 10.
If you did this to me, 8am means I am hungover...I would throw you around by your wakeboard brand jersey like a little kid.
Old     (tdc_worm)      Join Date: Sep 2002       09-17-2014, 11:12 AM Reply   
I think my point is being made. Somebody who needs smooth water to enjoy their activity cannot coexist with someone who doesn't need smooth water. When the flat water goes away, it takes with it those that are seeking flat water.

It could be argued, then, that while wakesurfing is growing the water sports industry, it is killing the wake boarding industry. I guess in this instance it pays to be part of herd.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-17-2014, 11:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
I think my point is being made. Somebody who needs smooth water to enjoy their activity cannot coexist with someone who doesn't need smooth water. When the flat water goes away, it takes with it those that are seeking flat water.

It could be argued, then, that while wakesurfing is growing the water sports industry, it is killing the wake boarding industry. I guess in this instance it pays to be part of herd.
And all are killing glassy conditions for peaceful fishing and hotboat top speed runs.
Old     (tdc_worm)      Join Date: Sep 2002       09-17-2014, 2:34 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
And all are killing glassy conditions for peaceful fishing and hotboat top speed runs.
True. And everything has a tolerance threshold. We have already seen it with noise ordinances on lakes in response to huge stereo systems. We will see it more and more with wake output on [certain] lakes...as many have postured against extra ballast and/or surfing in particular.
Old     (Redheadd)      Join Date: Apr 2014       09-17-2014, 4:18 PM Reply   
Surfing is for lames that have no skill
Old     (rockballer)      Join Date: Jun 2014       09-17-2014, 7:53 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redheadd View Post
Seriously you all are being nice. If it's 8 am and your surfing in glass I'm gonna ask you politely to stop and if you ignore me there is gonna be problems. Total lack of respect doing something that requires zero skill. You wanna be a dip shiiit Wally do after 10.
LOL this is golden. I always enjoy boats driving up on you thinking they have something to say and after they see the crew.... the casual roll by and glare.... one day you sir will come across the wrong crew
Old     (WakeDirt)      Join Date: Jun 2011       09-17-2014, 8:12 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockballer View Post
LOL this is golden. I always enjoy boats driving up on you thinking they have something to say and after they see the crew.... the casual roll by and glare.... one day you sir will come across the wrong crew
True true
Old     (tdc_worm)      Join Date: Sep 2002       09-17-2014, 8:28 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockballer View Post
LOL this is golden. I always enjoy boats driving up on you thinking they have something to say and after they see the crew.... the casual roll by and glare.... one day you sir will come across the wrong crew
Quote:
Originally Posted by WakeDirt View Post
True true
hahaha! this is the funniest stuff i have ever read. is there a lot of flexing and fist pumping that causes boats to just roll by instead of engaging in conversation? perhaps some mad dogging? and how will they know they have come across the "wrong crew?" will there be some trading of expletives where you yell louder and use more profanity and say more insulting stuff about their moms? will that be the key?

are you suggesting you would introduce a weapon into the conflict? unlikely. or are you suggesting that you and all your bros would board somebody elses boat and make the confrontation physical? how are you going to make that happen? swim over? ram them then board their vessel? nope and nope.

if you think that you and all your swole bros intimidate others on the water, then you are part of the problem.
Old     (rockballer)      Join Date: Jun 2014       09-17-2014, 8:36 PM Reply   
Wasn't suggesting anything. Assume what you will. There's always a boat with bigger dudes and sometimes weapons... just wanted to say don't be an ass hat and try and roll up on other boats.... the statement was directed at an individual who clearly would go out of his way just to try and bully other boaters
Old     (poon)      Join Date: Dec 2001       09-17-2014, 11:22 PM Reply   
Wakesurfing is super fun. Wakeboarding is brutal on the body and for those of us that have done our share of wakeboarding and gone through a lot of injuries, wakesurfing is a great way to be on the water. Next time your on the lake and you see someone wakesurfing on "your" lake don't get bummed, instead get your boat driver to whip you into the roller and get booted off of it. No use in getting mad... have fun. If someone actually does this please video it : )
Old     (dejoeco)      Join Date: Apr 2003       09-18-2014, 5:10 AM Reply   
Regardless if you are wakeboarding or wake surfing the driving technique is virtually the same. Driving the boat in a straight line minimizes the disruption to the water. Wake surfers want flat water as do wakeboarders so we try to do what we can to minimize the rollers. Idling back to pick up the rider and watching how the other boats on the lake navigate. Those who say it take no skill, I have to laugh. Have you tried shuvs and spins and other manuevers? Watch a video by Keenan Fleegal or James Walker and tell me they have not skill.
Old     (Redheadd)      Join Date: Apr 2014       09-18-2014, 6:34 AM Reply   
No skill!!! Tough bigger dudes!!! Bigger they are the bigger the dill doo they ride on.
Old     (allzway)      Join Date: Feb 2014       09-18-2014, 6:45 AM Reply   
Red has to be trolling... no one is this stupid.
Old     (Redheadd)      Join Date: Apr 2014       09-18-2014, 6:52 AM Reply   
I got gym muscles bro!! Gym muscles!! But my hands are soft
Old     (boardman74)      Join Date: Jul 2012       09-18-2014, 7:51 AM Reply   
One word…..Jetranger!!
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-18-2014, 8:05 AM Reply   
Now he's funny! Whew! I thought he was being serious....
Old     (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       09-18-2014, 9:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redheadd View Post
Seriously you all are being nice. If it's 8 am and your surfing in glass I'm gonna ask you politely to stop and if you ignore me there is gonna be problems. Total lack of respect doing something that requires zero skill. You wanna be a dip shiiit Wally do after 10.
If it's 8AM and we have glass, us wakesurfers are breaking out the wakeboards and hitting the morning butter as well. Hell sometimes the slalom skis too! Very rarely does anyone JUST do one thing. That being said, it's a lot easier to try new tricks surfing when you're not fighting rollers. For people who just cruise, whatever, but for those of us who are constantly trying to progress tricks, smooth water helps.

Something that takes zero skill? Right! I think those who say it takes zero skill either haven't tried it, or have tried actually doing some tricks on it and given up and just went back to what they know and calling it something for no skill, when they didn't have the skill to do anything other than just balance and ride in the first place.

Also you're probably lucky you start "problems" down there in California. Up here, a lot of people, especially those who enjoy the outdoors and things like boating, are carrying. If you come over to someone elses boat and try to get on it to get in their face to start "problems" for them taking "your glass" you aren't going to be so lucky playing the badass protecting your morning glass.
Sounds like someone needs to calm down and enjoy the dawn patrol butter they get in the first place, even if it means getting up before the sun and getting your first pull in at the crack of dawn.
Everyone is just looking to have a good time regardless, no one has the right to try to ruin someone elses good time because it inconveniences them.
Old     (Redheadd)      Join Date: Apr 2014       09-18-2014, 9:30 AM Reply   
Seriously though. Wake surfing literally does ruin all lakes. Way worse then tubers. Way worse.
Old     (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       09-18-2014, 9:38 AM Reply   
Seriously though, all the whining on here literally does ruin our sport. Way worse.
Old     (dejoeco)      Join Date: Apr 2003       09-18-2014, 11:12 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcrider View Post
Seriously though, all the whining on here literally does ruin our sport. Way worse.
X2
Old     (volzalum)      Join Date: May 2009       09-18-2014, 11:15 AM Reply   
X3
Old     (Redheadd)      Join Date: Apr 2014       09-18-2014, 11:21 AM Reply   
Lol this doesn't ruin anything! This us the internet! CMON MAN!!
Old     (donb)      Join Date: Mar 2012       09-18-2014, 11:21 AM Reply   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHqanWGr_EE
Old     (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-18-2014, 11:22 AM Reply   
How does wakesurfing in a striaght line ruin the lake more then a tuber doing constant "S" shaped powers turns all over the lake????
Old     (Redheadd)      Join Date: Apr 2014       09-18-2014, 12:21 PM Reply   
Never seen wake surfing in a straight line always listed.

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