backroll help again... sorry

ive been trying all last summer, and for the last month this summer. i cannot land this backroll. here is a vid of my attempt.

http://www.aurorafxstudios.com/files/backroll_attempt.AVI

i know i need to cut up the wake more and get that pop... but everytime i try, its like i either do it too early like in the vid, or i do it too late and butcher the whole thing. i cant find that sweet spot.

any other advice would be great. thanks a lot

Ok, a few tips.
1. You are edging way to hard, way to fast. You are practically starting your edge as hard as you can and letting it die as you get to the wake. You want to do just the opposite. Start your edge slowly and build up.
2. Think about pushing the board up and away from you when you come off the wake. Pull the rope in more.
3. If you hold your edge up the wake you won't really have to time it. When the board leaves the top of the wake it will do the trick for you.
Hope this helps.
Later
Tiffany

okay thanks. when doing the progressive edging, am i suppose to feel tension on the rope as build up speed? when i do my progressive edge, it feels like its doing nothing. im going to really practice it this weekend, but i thought i had a good progressive edge down.

I didn't look at the video, but here is my advice. You know that you are edging correctly when you can start from about 8 feet outside the wake, roll onto edge, and clear the second wake.

Going faster won't help you get around, you'll just land further out. Also, many people get intimidated when they cut fast and that causes them to ease up at the wake. If you start only 8 feet from the wake you'll be forced to cut hard all the way up the wake. The harder you edge RIGHT AT THE WAKE, the faster you will spin, so concentrate on having edge pressure right at the wake.

Try this:

Start from a max of 10 feet outside the wake.

As you leave the wake, don't jump straight up, try standing tall and jumping away from the boat. That is how I think of it and it helps me cut all the way through the wake (it may or may not help you).

You will feel a bit slow, but you should get "snapped" up and over the second wake.

If you can get that feeling, give it 70 or 80 tries and see if you can stomp that b.

Good luck,
D

I just watched the video and thought I'd add this.

Your attempt looks pretty good. Your only problems are that you are flattening out a bit and not standing tall. As mentioned before, roll into you cut and lay your shoulders back more than normal about 4 feet from the lip. Then try standing a bit taller by extending your legs and pushing your hips forward - but keep your shoulders back so you stay on edge. That's my advice, someone elses might work better for you but give it a try.

Not many more tries and you'll get it.

i see what you are saying thanks a lot. its frustrating because i took a few lessons early last year and he got me to the point where he said i was ready for a backroll. i was gettin pretty good pop... but not great. i never have been consistent. what bothers me is that it is taking me this long to do it, yet i hear of other people on wakeworld stomping it in a weekend. i wish i had that speed of learning lol

anyways, ill definately work on progressive edging. thanks a lot guys

The key for me was not to force it. Just take a progressive edge in, w/ your hardest edge at the wake, all the way through the wake. At the top, stand tall and look over your back shoulder. Don't throw it, just look over it. And make sure you keep that handle in close to your body. The board will go up and away from the boat, and then continue and come back under you. Keep you head turned so you can spot the landing. I agree w/ Daren and only go like 10 feet out. Not going out far and just doing proper mechanics is what got it for me.

Good luck, I'm sure we'll see a video of you landing one soon.

alright... now i cant wait to get out there and try these again.

thanks a lot

i was out there this past weekend and got around all the way, and i was told i got plenty of height. even though i already knew i had to edge ALL the way through the wake... starting only 8 feet out the wake helped me a lot. i must be getting scared when i start out further and letting up at the wake.

anyways, now i just need to land them. this weekend i was able to land on my board a few times, but the handle was ripped out of my hands and i fell back each time. i have been landing crouched, any advice?

well i'll be out next weekend again, thanks for the help! i think/hope i'll be stomping these soon!

(Message edited by afxsguy on July 28, 2004)

I noticed that you were crouched in the air when I watched your video. That's why in my second post I mentioned standing tall at the wake. Anyway, if you try to land any big air with your legs already bent it's pretty tough. Try it again this weekend and think about standing a bit taller by extending your legs and pushing your hips forward - but keep your shoulders back so you stay on edge. When you leave the wake, you should basically freeze (ie. stay tall).

Mentally, as you get comfortable with the take-off and rotation, you should try to look past that and focus on the landing.

The first time I landed one I didn't just "butt check", I "butt rode" half way down the lake until I finally stood up. It doesn't have to be pretty.

In a couple of weeks you'll be giving people tips on how to do them.

this weekend i will take more video. hopefully ill land at least one. im assuming i'll butt ride a few of my first landings. i just have to really commit myself to not let go of the handle when i land. the 2 times i almost landed last weekend, i was doin the butt slide thing, and my handle got ripped out of my hands. but i shouldn't have let go lol. maybe if i superglue my hands to the handle, ill pull out of that butt slide haha.

also daren, the advice on starting only 8 feet out from the wake is starting to help my jump become more consistent. starting far out from the wake is a really bad habit to get into until you have a really good progressive edge and are committed to holding your edge all the way through the wake.

thanks a lot

Did yeah land the backrolls yet you crazy mofo?

no

haha, im really close though. i have a few videos that i will upload probably tomorrow. i get all the way around now. height and rotation are easy, i think i just need better handle placement, and superglue. the handle keeps getting ripped out of my hands after i land on my board.

okay scratch that... rotation is easy. i still need a bit more height. now that i look at the recent video, im still don't have a good progressive edge. i have another video where i over rotate and fall forward, but it's 16mb because it has me messing around too much before the backroll. anyways, ill get out there and work on my progressive edge more. here's the link to the recent vid. http://www.aurorafxstudios.com/files/backroll_attempt2.AVI

You cut looks quite a bit better than in your first video. I still think you need to drop your shoulders back a bit (edge harder) during the last 4 feet of your cut, and stand taller at the wake. By standing taller, I don't mean to let off your cut and stand up straight, I mean extend your legs and push your hips forward while cutting like a mad man. I think if you do that you will get thrown into a better rotation. Right now you are still crouched in the air because you are not leaving the wake tall. Try taking a few practice cuts standing tall at the wake (and on a hard edge).

Also ... you are progressing fine. Don't listen to the guys that say they learned 28 different inverts in one weekend. It took me 150 or so tries over an entire season and my buddy had to work at it for two years. When you get it down you'll be able to learn other inverts much faster.

thanks a lot darren. i know im at least landing on my board now... but yah... im still crouched. i thought crouhing gave you a faster rotation.

Don't you get a faster rotation if the handle is close to you? I'm not saying pull the handle right up to your chest but isn't that the way it works for the rotation factor?

Yeah, handle placement is definitely a factor, the closer it is to your center of gravity, the faster you will spin. I don't think you need to worry about handle placement though, just keep your arms bent and the handle low (near your hips) like you normally would on a regular wake jump. If you let your arms extend during the trick you will definitely kill your rotation.

Crouching won't do too much to help your rotation.

I think the biggest key to rotation is angle (how hard you are edging right at the takeoff). The harder you edge, the faster you will spin. Lots of people can do this trick with no wake at all - just a really hard edge and an ollie.

Standing taller will help you absorb the landing so the rope doesn't get yanked out of your hands.

Try it and see, it can't hurt ... too much.

hi gys,

I suceed my first backroll afer a full week of frustration and the key for me was :

- no need to go wide
- keep strong edge at the wake

I land all of them now each time

thanks for all post

for those of you who can do a TS and HS backroll... what is easier? i have never tried a TS backroll, so I don't know.

For me I do a TS backroll before the heelside back roll.

I wold say afterwards that ts backroll is a bit more technique that bs, because your are edging first in toesside and need good wake to wake first and second is that you need reaal wait the pop before starting the rotation. I do more fall in ts that bs when trying it

i see... im more consistent with my toeside jumps than my heelside. i think heelside i'm afriad of landing in the flats, so i always let up at the wake. however, my toeside jumps dont get as high as my heelside. ive went a little backwards this year and tried to work more on my jumps. im not a consistent rider. some days i do awsome. some days i wait for that pop and stay on edge. other days i have some weird mental block that makes me really suck.

anyways, i havent tried a TS backroll but im going to try one this weekend. im just afraid of only getting half a rotation and landing upside down.

Jesse, if you gonna try the ts backroll, I will give you some tips for me.
First of all in my case when trying a new trick I always first try to having it strongly executed in my head and imagine doing it. Then I always ask my self what are the risk of that trick if I fail it. For the ts back roll the worst risk you will have is to land on your stomack, but that dos not hurt. Then in case you over rotate you will land on your butt.

So the key for a good ts back roll is to go a bit wide and get a progressive edge to the wake, stand tall during edging and place you hip to the wake not to the boat. then at the base of the wake bend your knees and push the borad in front of you as you are rising. You need to be really patient before throuing the trick, you need to really wait to feel the top of the pop before througing the backroll. Keep the handle with two hand to lock the position when when you feel the borad off the wake then start the back roll. Do not through you head back too erly or you will nothave enough eight.
for sure you will get few falls before felleing it but thsi is the way to learn.

I wasa able to land a backroll, scarecrow in 2 weeks. For TS backrool after one week I waas able to land it.

Good luck

I looks like ur ducking ur head instead of looking up and around, over the shoulders and make sure the handle is at hip and when u see the water let go with the backhand and you should ride awway good luck