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Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       12-23-2009, 3:17 PM Reply   
you guys will never understand since you've never been in a big game before in front of a big crowd. nor do any of you go to med school. and for the record, here's his nba best player list:

1. jordan
2. tebow
Old     (dlwsrider)      Join Date: Apr 2007       12-23-2009, 3:21 PM Reply   
"you guys will never understand since you've never been in a big game before in front of a big crowd. nor do any of you go to med school. and for the record, here's his nba best player list:

1. jordan
2. tebow"

I just about fell out of my chair laughing.
Old    murrayair            12-23-2009, 4:14 PM Reply   
Joe- 2 hrs? He was down in Texas for 2 weeks over the summer to work with Hakeem. Hakeem has also visited LA during this season to work with Kobe.

Dave- it's not about bringing him over to our side, it's about enjoying being able to be petty and insulting online with no consequences, lol.

And the best things since toilet paper are clearly the Hannah Montana dolls that my sister plays with. Duh.
Old     (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       12-23-2009, 7:11 PM Reply   
How can their even be discussions about who the best player in the NBA is when league management dictates to the refs who to make a star? Its like asking who the best WWE wrestler is. Any athletic player in the league could be the best of all time with the help of favorable calls. At the same time truly gifted players can be reduced to nothing when refs give him the death penalty. Look at Iverson or Rasheed.

Kobe and LeBron play great basketball, but the reason they stand out is because they play by different rules than the rest of the league. Look at how they played in international play. Two guys who regularly take over games were just average (Kobe actually looked terrible with the exception of 1 run of shooting at the end of a game. He couldnt drive on anyone without NBA refs helping him). Guys who can really play stood out, like Bosh.
Old     (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       12-23-2009, 8:49 PM Reply   
great point jason. probably a reason I enjoyed watching international hoops a lot more than the nba.
Old    murrayair            12-23-2009, 9:03 PM Reply   
I disagree. You cannot discount the sheer refined talent of guys like MJ, LeBron and Kobe. Even when they're not driving the lane, they are clearly more talented shooters, defenders and overall play makers than everyone else.

If an argument is to be made about refs creating the stars because of calls (or non-calls) in the lane/key, it logically has to start with the guys that live down there: Centers. Making an argument that guys like Shaq benefit from the refs is far more feasible because it is more obvious when watching the game. As much as I love Shaq, he used to walk all over people without consequence.
Old     (mjfan23)      Join Date: Nov 2003       12-24-2009, 8:43 AM Reply   
Darrel what makes someone a basketball expert?

Numbers don't lie. Lebron has BETTER career numbers... More points per game, more steals per game, more assists per game, more rebounds per game, more blocks per game. Kobe has rings, rings shaq got him. Thank Shaq Kobe.

Wanna look at this season... Melo has more points per game, more rebounds, higher shooting percents and less turnovers.

The league has gone soft because of clowns like Kobe.
Old     (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       12-24-2009, 10:36 AM Reply   
did shaq win a ring with kobe last year? did shaq get kobe to the finals the year before that? is shaq helping kobe's Lakers dominate the league this year?
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       12-24-2009, 10:38 AM Reply   
aagghh...selected by a panel of 107 Hall of Famers, major award winners, executives, current players and coaches and other basketball experts.
Im gonna go with the "experts".
of course numbers lie, figures lie and liars figure. If numbers were the only factor, no one will touch Wilts numbers, probably the GOAT.
If Melo (what happened to lebron?) was on the Lakers his rebound numbers would be much lower due to them having two 7 footers and rebounding machine lamar odom. They play a diff position, closer to the rim equals higher percentage, thats why Kendrick Perkins leads the league. The broken finger kobe is playing with is contributing to turnovers no doubt.
Merry Christmas, lets forget about the refs creating outcomes and enjoy the matchup of some future HoF'ers on xmas day!
Old     (lizzyb)      Join Date: Sep 2005       12-24-2009, 11:07 AM Reply   
Indeed, Merry Christmas everyone. My family will all be sporting our Kobe jerseys and watching the Lakers rip the Cavs tomorrow.
Old     (mjfan23)      Join Date: Nov 2003       12-24-2009, 11:25 AM Reply   
"The broken finger kobe is playing with is contributing to turnovers no doubt."

Is that a Christmas joke!? Broken finger having an effect on shooting, maybe. But Turnovers, not a chance.
Old    murrayair            12-24-2009, 12:41 PM Reply   
Since everything you do with the ball- shooting, passing, dribbling, defending- involves your hands, a broken finger could lead to more turnovers. Not saying it is, just saying it's a plausible argument.
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       12-24-2009, 1:19 PM Reply   
sly, don't argue w/ him. you've never played in a big game in front of a big crowd, nor have you ever attended med school. you will never get it.
Old    murrayair            12-24-2009, 7:51 PM Reply   
Lol! Right you are.
Old     (dlwsrider)      Join Date: Apr 2007       12-24-2009, 8:14 PM Reply   
I played infront of a big crowd for school and it still didn't count in the College Football thread. Obviously no one will ever get it.
Old     (jimmy_z)      Join Date: Jun 2009       12-24-2009, 10:35 PM Reply   
Can we all agree....Eric is the nostradumbass of basketball?????

There are many during this thread who have given Eric point after point of fact.

Yet somehow Erics' small brain can't grasp the facts.

Erics' only defense is to say numerous sports writers, coaches and players are only opinions.

While Erics' thoughts are fact?????

You are the weakest link Eric....goodbye!!!!!
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       12-24-2009, 10:55 PM Reply   
nostradumbass! simply awesome! hahaha!
Old     (mjfan23)      Join Date: Nov 2003       12-25-2009, 12:20 PM Reply   
Nothing to say about Kobe not posting numbers? figured. Kobe has 17 dunks this year.. Lebron has 48. WOW. Kobe needs to GET BIG.

"yet somehow Eric's small brain can't grasp the facts" - Jim
"Med school" - Joe

And yes my thoughts SHOULD be fact, because they are backed up with statistical numbers.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       12-25-2009, 12:25 PM Reply   
I am not the least bit knowledgeable about the nba AT ALL, but wouldn't it make sense that LeBron has more dunks than Kobe given the positions they play?

Also, would you really take Dirk over Kobe? I don't watch much basketball (other than college) but I'm under the impression that Kobe is a top defensive player and Dirk's defense is poor - of course I probably weigh defense more heavily than most.
Old     (mjfan23)      Join Date: Nov 2003       12-25-2009, 12:34 PM Reply   
^^^ Dirk a few years ago, possibly. Dirk straight posts numbers and is the most underrated player in the league.
Old    murrayair            12-25-2009, 12:45 PM Reply   
He's pretty highly rated, so I doubt that.
Old     (mjfan23)      Join Date: Nov 2003       12-25-2009, 12:53 PM Reply   
Top players in the league, Dirk is rarely mentioned and he should be.
Old    murrayair            12-26-2009, 1:34 AM Reply   
Well, looks like any argument of Kobe getting preferential treatment from the refs was killed in today's game.
Old     (mjfan23)      Join Date: Nov 2003       12-26-2009, 9:01 AM Reply   
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       12-28-2009, 5:22 PM Reply   
Those two 3 pointers in the 2nd over time were just too much for Sac and Eric.
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       12-28-2009, 5:29 PM Reply   
kobe didn't go to med school so he's not impressed.
Old    murrayair            12-29-2009, 12:09 AM Reply   
Old     (mjfan23)      Join Date: Nov 2003       12-29-2009, 6:55 AM Reply   
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       12-29-2009, 7:05 AM Reply   
2 beatdowns and they're still in first place. imagine how much better they'd be if they went to med school.
Old     (mjfan23)      Join Date: Nov 2003       12-29-2009, 7:25 AM Reply   
Forget med school, Kobe needs to work on college. Its pretty obvious his NBA career wont last much longer, and he will need to get a full time job due to the fact that be spends incredible amounts of money on absurd rings to allow his cheating ways.
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       12-29-2009, 7:57 AM Reply   
the jock from which you swing from.


Media icon, legendary basketball player, not so legendary baseball player, and all-around ‘good guy’ Michael Jordan has been mired in several cheating scandals. Jordan married Juanita Vanoy in 1989 and had two sons with her. Unfortunately, he was also allegedly seeing Karla Knafel around that time, and even paid her $250,000 to keep their relationship a secret. Juanita Vanoy filed for divorce in 2002 and got $168 million, making it the most expensive celebrity divorce on public record. She said they had irreconcilable differences (I wonder why).


February 13, 2007. Last month Michael Jordan and his wife Juanita decided to end their sixteen year marriage. Since announcing the split, both Jordan's have done their best to keep details of their divorce out of the press.

But we just interviewed one of Michael's exes that isn't as silent as Juanita. In fact she's writing a tell-all book about her torrid affair with the NBA great. The woman, whose name is Lisa Micelli, is making some explosive claims.

Lisa, photo'd below, first met Michael in 1999 at a North Carolina bar. The tall brunette, who was with her live-in boyfriend at the time, managed to sneak away to meet the NBA baller. She was immediately smitten. She explains, "I never dated a Black man before, but Michael was so beautiful ... his dark skin [was] so soft and beautiful."

The two eventually left the party, and went to Michael's hotel room. After an intimate encounter, Lisa decided that it was best to leave. That's when Michael reportedly gave her $60 in cash. Lisa tells, "I figured it was for a cab ride home, but it still felt kind of weird."

And according to Lisa, that was the most money that she saw from Jordan during their two year relationship. She explains, "Michael never bought me any gifts, we just didn't have that kind of relationship ... but once he asked me to go on vacation with his wife and kids. I thought that was too creepy, so I said no."

Their relationship hit a snag in 2002, when Juanita first filed for divorce. Lisa tells, "Michael came and told me that [Juanita] found out about us - and that he had to choose between her and me." He ended up choosing Juanita, and the two subsequently reconciled.

Broken hearted, Lisa sold her story to the National Enquirer.

But that's not the end of the story. Because even after Juanita and Michael reconciled, Lisa and Michael continued their affair. Only this time the NBA legend made Lisa sign a contract promising not to talk about their relationship.

Now that Michael and Juanita are divorcing, Lisa feels free to discuss the relationship.

Finally, Lisa had some choice words for Black women who are upset with her for dating Michael. The former model tells, "Black women shouldn't blame me for being White. It is Michael's choice - if he wants to be with White women, then that's what he’s going to do."

Old     (mjfan23)      Join Date: Nov 2003       12-29-2009, 9:51 AM Reply   
Cmon Joe, I realize you never attended Med school, but the average person could see that you where going to post something about MJ. Jordan is divorced and handled his mistakes a different way. Kobe being an uneducated person didn't.

Besides Jordan is loaded, Kobe is an average player on a team that's near the verge of complete disaster. Its okay Kobe might be able to find a job working at the local taco bell.
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       12-29-2009, 9:57 AM Reply   


the average person could see that you where going to post something about MJ.

and you went to med school. anyway....duh! no shiat i was going to post something about jordan. his is the nutsack from which you swing from.

now kobe's an average player. a couple weeks ago, he was slightly above average. i guess you had to have gone to med school to understand that they mean the same thing.

lakers are near the verge of complete disaster. i guess the celtics are catastrophic failures since they lost to the clippers AND the warriors.
Old     (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       12-29-2009, 12:53 PM Reply   
"Kobe being an uneducated person didn't."

no offense Eric, but just because one did not attend college, does not make them uneducated. I am pretty sure Kobe's living abroad, speaking multiple languages puts him head and shoulders above most college basketball players who have their sights set on the NBA.

as far as Jordan handling his cheating differently, how does that matter? he got caught just the same. Kobe spent $5 million to make amends, and MJ spent $168 million to do the same. sounds like Kobe was the smarter businessman in these situations.
Old    murrayair            12-29-2009, 1:59 PM Reply   
Forbes estimates Kobe makes between 40 and 50 million dollars per year. I don't think that $4 million ring really hurt him.

And last time I checked, 29.9 ppg on a team that's 24-6 is far from average. I am trying to decide, Eric, if you are really that dumb or just saying that stuff to antagonize people. I'm leaning toward the former.
Old     (mjfan23)      Join Date: Nov 2003       12-29-2009, 7:11 PM Reply   
Sly I cant be dumb, I'm in med school. Have you not been paying attention? Golden state by 47 tonight.
Old     (jimmy_z)      Join Date: Jun 2009       12-29-2009, 8:29 PM Reply   

Old     (wakeboardertj)      Join Date: May 2005       12-29-2009, 11:07 PM Reply   
" Golden state by 47 tonight."

or 44 pts and 11 assists for Kobe.

Too close of a game, we seem to bring the best out of every team and not play up to the occasion
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       12-29-2009, 11:08 PM Reply   
gs definitely had momentum after beating the celtics the other night.
Old    murrayair            12-30-2009, 12:06 PM Reply   
The Lakers always seem to go through a rough stretch mid-season and pick up again after the all-star break. I just hope this current slump doesn't last until then. Good thing we've got Kobe and Pau to hold us up until the rest of the team decides they want to start playing. Odom really needs to start stepping up to the plate consistantly.
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       12-30-2009, 1:03 PM Reply   
odom played well last night, but fisher's starting to really get on my nerves.
Old     (mjfan23)      Join Date: Nov 2003       12-30-2009, 2:17 PM Reply   
4-12, 0-2 from deep is good? Lamar Odom is awful, potential like no other and just terrible.
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       12-30-2009, 2:21 PM Reply   
there's more to stats, nostradumbass. you should know this since you're in med school.
Old     (mjfan23)      Join Date: Nov 2003       12-30-2009, 2:25 PM Reply   
You cant sit there and tell me Lamar Odom is a good ball player. He has every tool he needs to be a star and yet he plays like a clown. Most overrated player in the league.
Old    murrayair            12-30-2009, 2:41 PM Reply   
He's averaging 15ppg, 9rpg, and 46% from the field. Looks pretty good to me. The Lakers don't need him to be a star, they already have two of those. They need him to be a roll-player, which he has been quite good at. Granted, he does need to be a little more consistent, but he is a good basketball player.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       12-31-2009, 5:47 PM Reply   
Lamar Odom is a good ballplayer, but im only standing. Im so F'ing confused, I thought kobe was the most overrated player in the league and i was almost positive kobe was the clown too. I need to study up but there is so little time with med school and all. I just double checked the math and $168M is MORE THAN the $4M ring Kobe got his wife.
Fisher's been showing his age the last couple weeks, and it is frustrating this early in the season. At least the bench has shown slight improvement, but kobe has been carrying the Lakers for the last 5-6 games.
Old     (mendo247)      Join Date: Mar 2005       01-01-2010, 10:54 PM Reply   
3 on the year! bahahahahaa not bad for a role player hahahahaha
Old    murrayair            01-01-2010, 11:38 PM Reply   
Good way to start off the new decade. I can't believe New York actually beat Atlanta! Nice to see them get a win against a good team.
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       01-02-2010, 12:03 AM Reply   
and to think, atlanta was #1 in power rankings just last week!
Old     (sdub)      Join Date: Jan 2003       01-04-2010, 9:46 AM Reply   
looks like Kobe got "lucky" agian in the new years day game. Never seen a guy get "lucky" so many times.
Old     (hbguy)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-04-2010, 10:56 AM Reply   
Not only did Kobe deserve a foul on the previous play but he deserved one on the game winner. If you watch the replay, Kobe literally shoves his guy out of the way to get open for that final shot. It was comical that the guys on sportscenter said "How is Kobe that wide open?" when showing the replay but they did not show the part where Kobe shoved his guy out of the way. Granted, you can't really blame Kobe for shoving the guy. He knows the refs won't call it.

oh, and speaking of sportscenter always making kobe out to be god, why was there not a bigger deal made of Kobe failing miserably when he tried to dunk on Turiaf? Turiaf should have wagged his finger at kobe!
Old    murrayair            01-04-2010, 12:31 PM Reply   
Look closer. Kobe didn't shove his defender. Rather the defender wasn't looking where he was going and ran full speed into Kobe.
Old     (wakeboardertj)      Join Date: May 2005       01-04-2010, 1:21 PM Reply   
It was a good no call, Not a foul on Kobe.
Old    sperbet            01-04-2010, 4:48 PM Reply   
says 2 Laker fans...

How bout the tripping call that led to the game winner?

Kobe never gets any preferential super star treatment
Old     (wakeboardertj)      Join Date: May 2005       01-04-2010, 7:18 PM Reply   
As a ref how can you make that call with 4 seconds left when 2 people run into each other and the kings player tries to
sell it. And for the record Kobe gets the least amount of calls
compared to the other 'super stars' like Wade and lebron. Some nights he has to be absolutely hacked to
get to the line.
Old    sperbet            01-05-2010, 12:50 PM Reply   
Run into each other? Did you even see it? There was 0 contact and definitely 0 contact with the legs which would constitute a tripping call...

Sorry bud, but you purple and gold goggles are THICK...
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       01-05-2010, 1:13 PM Reply   
i saw it. it could've gone either way; foul or no foul. there definitely was contact, but kobe didn't put the guy on the floor. rodriguez put himself on the floor when he "tried" to sell the foul.
Old     (lizzyb)      Join Date: Sep 2005       01-05-2010, 1:45 PM Reply   
Scott - Still hurting from that Game 6 in 2002, are you?
Old    murrayair            01-05-2010, 2:29 PM Reply   
Is our bias as Laker fans any worse than your clear bias as a Kobe-hater? What's that cliche about the pot calling the kettle black?

It's common knowledge that refs have a "let 'em play" attitude when games come down to the wire. It has to be a hard foul or clearly an intentional foul to get called. The non-call was appropriate and consistent with every other
game and every other player.

(2000th post! Woo hoo!)

(Message edited by murrayair on January 05, 2010)
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       01-05-2010, 2:41 PM Reply   


By Sly Park Mark (murrayair) on Tuesday, January 05, 2010 - 2:29 pm:

(2000th post! Woo hoo!)

Old    sperbet            01-05-2010, 4:43 PM Reply   
Joe, not talking about the game winner. I'm talking about the tripping call that Shannon Brown got. I'm not upset with the contact on the game winner, I'm actually okay with the no call. It shouldn't have mattered though because it would've been a 4 point game.

Yes Lizzy, always and forever unfortunately. Pretty funny isn't it? :-(
Old     (wakeboardertj)      Join Date: May 2005       01-05-2010, 4:49 PM Reply   
"I'm talking about the tripping call that Shannon Brown got"

oh, thought you were talking about the last 4 seconds where Kobe and the other guy collided.

unfortunately I didn't get to see the whole game, only the highlights since the damn game was blacked out on league pass.
Old     (lizzyb)      Join Date: Sep 2005       01-05-2010, 4:54 PM Reply   
Scott - Only funny if you're a Lakers fan. Sorry friend.
Old     (dakid)      Join Date: Feb 2001       01-05-2010, 5:10 PM Reply   
scott, you may be right w/ the non-call on the trip, but what about the non-calls that went the kings' way? fact is, there are always missed calls that go against both teams.

as for game 6 of the 02 western finals, i've challenged friends that were kings fans (no longer fans cause the kings are no longer significant ) to watch game 6 w/ me to point out the bad calls. they've all declined 'cause they didn't want to be proven wrong. i agree that there may have been a bad call or two, but people (including the media) made it out to be worse than it was. i've watched that game many times (still have the vhs (what's that?)) and fact is, had the kings made their shots and their free-throws, they would've won game 6.
Old     (hbguy)      Join Date: Jun 2005       01-05-2010, 5:27 PM Reply   
They didn't just collide. If you look closely, Kobe throws his right shoulder into the guy. There is even some elbow thrown into it as well. That is more than a collision. That is a foul on the guy throwing his shoulder. Like I said earlier, no one is going to call that with 2 seconds left, but it should be pointed out.
Old    murrayair            01-05-2010, 5:37 PM Reply   
As long as we're talking about that game, let's not forget Game 5, where the officiating appeared to heavily favor the Kings. Shaq, the most fouled man in the league at the time, went to the line only ONE time the entire game before fouling out. Also, the double digit disparity in free throws between the two teams was a huge advantage to the Kings, which is the same thing Kings fans complained about in Game 6. But no one ever remembers Game 5. The fact is that the Kings would have won if they had not shot just over 30% from the field and not much better from the line. No one shoots that low and wins a playoff game.

Here's a very interesting analysis of the game from, a quite reputable basketball stats site:
Old    sperbet            01-05-2010, 5:54 PM Reply   
I'm not getting into Game 6 with you guys, it won't get anywhere and you won't convince me otherwise. I'll watch the game with you anytime Joe.

I'm strictly talking about the trip call in the last game. It was an obvious BAD, BAD call. Gave the Lakers 2 free points one possesion before Kobe's game winner...
Old    murrayair            01-05-2010, 6:51 PM Reply   
A few bad calls happen throughout every game. This one just happened to be in a clutch situation. IMO, it wasn't any worse of a call than any other the other bad calls, for either team, in the game, it just happened at an unfortuitous time for the Kings.


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