gator - say it isn't so!!!

(dakid) · (dakid) **Join Date: Feb 2001** 10-03-2008, 12:33 PM

i just heard a bunch of gator employees got laid off. is gator, one of only a handful of indie board companies, shuttin' its doors? it would totally suck if they do! great products, great people and a bunch of my friends ride for 'em.

(to_blind) · (to_blind) **Join Date: Mar 2007** 10-03-2008, 12:34 PM

i agree Joe, that would be a shame, especialy cuz there 09 stuff was looking so promising...hope its just a rumour.

(ttrigo) · (ttrigo) **Join Date: Dec 2004** 10-03-2008, 12:39 PM

fall out from Randall leaving, or just economics at work?

too bad. kinda shows that indie board companies just can't compete with the biggies.

(joshbuzz) · (joshbuzz) **Join Date: Sep 2007** 10-03-2008, 12:41 PM

Joe, I love Gator and one of my really good friends is a rep for them down here but would it surprise you if it happened? Randall is gone, Ricky G can't carry the company, and the Legend Board that was supposed to be so revolutionary never even shipped last year cause they were tweaking it and got ahead of themselves in production promises. I have nothing for respect for Lutgert and wish him the utmost success but it's very reasonable that because of a couple bad turn in events that they might be closing their doors.

(solo) · (solo) **Join Date: Oct 2001** 10-03-2008, 12:49 PM

I heard the same thing. I know that Troy Flick and Arian Antonucci both got laid off. These are two of the hardest working guys in our industry. I also heard that someone that used to work for Krown Wakeboards was coming in to try and turn things around. I hope they can! Gator put together some really dedicated people over the last few years.

If you really want to help, go buy some GB product! Or help Troy and Arian find an industry related job.

(andy_nintzel)

Man that would be Horrible for the industry! I hope they can make it through this!

(wakeboardsam) · (wakeboardsam) **Join Date: Jun 2008** 10-03-2008, 1:38 PM

How many of you guys actually think Randall left? I would bet that Erik said, hey Randall, you can make a lot of money with some other company, while don't you do that? I doubt those two guys are really driven by money, it's not like Randall can go get a job anywhere else but in wakeboard industry (with a skeleton hand tattoo and all)... He had better make as much money as he can while he can.

Does anyone think he looks a little uncomfortable on that flexboard?

(stephan) · (stephan) **Join Date: Nov 2002** 10-03-2008, 1:43 PM

Wish nothing but the best for Troy Flick, he definitely busted his hump over the years for that company. Why would they bring in someone from Krown? Not exactly the model of prosperity...

(to_blind) · (to_blind) **Join Date: Mar 2007** 10-03-2008, 1:53 PM

quoting Sam..."it's not like Randall can go get a job anywhere else but in wakeboard industry (with a skeleton hand tattoo and all)... "

Sam, you're a home builder..couldn't Randall work for you with a tattoo?? that was one of the most narrow-mineded things I have read in awhile. FTR thats just my opinion and it is not a fact.really though, what do tattoos have to do with ability to perform? anyways, sorry to hijack, i really hope GB is ok.

(wakereviews) · (wakereviews) **Join Date: Sep 2006** 10-03-2008, 2:21 PM

Hope it ain't so... i was really liking the 2009 lineup (looks) and was planning on goin' Gator this year!

(wakeboardsam) · (wakeboardsam) **Join Date: Jun 2008** 10-03-2008, 3:44 PM

quote:
By derek mcdonald (to_blind) on Friday, October 03, 2008 - 1:53 pm:

quoting Sam..."it's not like Randall can go get a job anywhere else but in wakeboard industry (with a skeleton hand tattoo and all)... "

Sam, you're a home builder..couldn't Randall work for you with a tattoo?? that was one of the most narrow-mineded things I have read in awhile. FTR thats just my opinion and it is not a fact.really though, what do tattoos have to do with ability to perform? anyways, sorry to hijack, i really hope GB is ok.

Derek,
I build high end homes, almost exclusively on the ocean, from Santa Monica to Santa Barbara. The answer to your question is no, Randall couldn't work for me, unless he worked in the warehouse. There is no way that I would let my customers see him. Nothing against Randall at all, I just try to represent my company in a professional manner and require that my employees look professional. We had a really, really good welder working for use who got a tattoo on his face. I had to let him go because no matter what I did he couldn't get past the guard gate to the community that we were working in. I had to go meet him at the gate every time he needed to get back in. You have to admit that although looks aren't everything public perception is very important specially when you are trying to make a living. I know it is a free country (or at least it was), but you have to think about your actions and the consequences of those actions.

I know plenty Hells Angels that are lawyers and accountants, they have tats and piercings, but they will be the first to admit that the tats and piercings have limited their clientele and their job prospects.

Also, what experience does Randall have working in construction or any other job?

(bailey) · (bailey) **Join Date: May 2001** 10-03-2008, 4:59 PM

Do you guys really think that one pro rider leaving a company can put them out of business?

(knarbar) · (knarbar) **Join Date: Nov 2006** 10-03-2008, 5:03 PM

Personally no. But thats opinion. Look at when Hyperlite lost parks danny and chad. Did that put them out of business. Nope. But then again just my opinion

(steezyshots) · (steezyshots) **Join Date: Feb 2008** 10-03-2008, 6:07 PM

The reality is the economy sucks. I have no idea what Gator Boards Financial Statements are but I am assuming Gator is a small company in a small industry and they it sounds like they are among the first to take a hit. We have already seen boardshops close. And it is only going to get worse. Support your local shops!

(tonyv420) · (tonyv420) **Join Date: Jul 2007** 10-03-2008, 6:34 PM

Sure hope GB doesn't shut down. Sorry to hear about Troy, he is one of the nicest guys in the industry I have met. Good luck Troy hope to see ya at the events still.

(hypripper) · (hypripper) **Join Date: May 2002** 10-03-2008, 10:09 PM

There are a lot of us with tattoos that are nothing but professional. Closed minded people are the ones making it difficult

(mvl) · (mvl) **Join Date: May 2004** 10-04-2008, 7:32 AM

Gator is a small company that was anchored by a big name, he is gone. Unless they can mass produce AND SELL package boards comprable to the big boys, it makes sense.

Also, Sam, I get you. It's not a discrimnation thing, it's a business reputation and representation thing. Most employees do not think of wearing the other shoe. If working for yourself with no employees, you are your company. However, when you hire people to work for you, the employees are a direct reflection of the business and owner, more so in smaller companies and the owners customers may or may not like it. What we do to our bodies, faces and appearance does affect opportunites later in life, like it or not. Argue with it if you want, free this or that... Truth is if you want to work for someone else, know that when being intervied/considered for the position they are looking at you as a potential "picture" of the company/owner and would they want you to represent them to their clients and customers. Would they way that you look/act be a detriment to your employer/potential employer.

(headhunter) · (headhunter) **Join Date: Jun 2007** 10-04-2008, 9:35 AM

" Seasons in the Sun" Goodbye old friends.

(phantom5815) · (phantom5815) **Join Date: Jul 2002** 10-04-2008, 9:47 AM

Closed minded people are usually the ones with a lot of money and power.

(committed) · (committed) **Join Date: Jul 2005** 10-04-2008, 10:49 AM

Sam, your a sad dude, and very bad at business too. Do you hire dark skinned people? Or can they not get through the gates as well? Save it. I've lived in those gated communities for years and I was also a contractor as well, in SoCal, Newport, Laguna, Dana Point, San Clemente, and I've never had one single issue rolling through the gates-and I am slapped (this means full of ink)up from the neck down. It's called CALLING IN to the guard shack and when you do, they don't ask for descriptions! Any neighborhood that did WHAT you pretend they do, would be sued in a heartbeat. And truth be told, I would sue the crap out of you and whatever lame hood you were working in-if I had been THAT welder. Then you would work for me, but in the WAREHOUSE.
End rant.

I wish the very best for the Gator crew, and hope it's not permanant. Hopefully, they can ride this out, like the rest of us. Best of luck.

(knarbar) · (knarbar) **Join Date: Nov 2006** 10-04-2008, 11:17 AM

I know Randy was a heavy hitter, but are we forgetting Ricky G? I mean just cause they lost Randy CANT be the only thing pushing this company under. I just dont believe that.

(tonyv420) · (tonyv420) **Join Date: Jul 2007** 10-04-2008, 11:41 AM

Sam Randall does have plenty of skills and has enough sense to learn new ones. Yea makes me wonder do you hire people with dark skin? Sounds like a personnel problem to me, and not the guard shacks prob. Do you know any of Randalls history??? Did you know he was working during his time away from wakeboarding?? I agree with Chris, you are one very sad dude!!

(reinle) · (reinle) **Join Date: Sep 2005** 10-04-2008, 12:42 PM

I dont agree with prejudice or judging a person's capabilities based upon their looks, but i will say that a person's outward appearence does play a large role in their work career. Does having tattoos completely eliminate job opportunities...no, but they will unfortunately limit the hirability of the person depending on the industry.

I don't have any tattoos, but i do have larger gauged earrings. I currently work as a marketing rep for a real estate company (no i dont deal with high end beach front homes, i work with apartment and town home communities)and I had to let my ears grow back to a smaller gauge size to please my company. It was unfortunate, but it was a neccessary evil if I wanted this awesome job opportunity.

To make my post wakeboarding related...I would hate to see GB dwindle down. I really have respect for Gator and his team, and I think they have shown tremendous proggression over the past few years. I like to root for underdog companies like GB, and it is a shame to see them struggle financially

(joshugan) · (joshugan) **Join Date: Apr 2005** 10-04-2008, 3:19 PM

Tattoos and skin color are totally different. Nice try though. Skin color is something you're born with and tattoos are something you choose to have.

I have no problem with people "choosing" to get a tattoo but they are also choosing the consequences of likely having certain doors closed to them and people judging them for it. I know some great people with many tattoos and it doesn't bother me but I would (I believe rightly) question someone's good judgment who got a face tattoo or something else particularly outrageous.

Randall's skeleton arm and hand is pretty cool imo but I wouldn't blame someone who didn't hire him as a bank teller.

Hoping the best from GB. I've personally dealt with Arian before and he's a great guy.

(rmcronin) · (rmcronin) **Join Date: Aug 2002** 10-04-2008, 3:59 PM

My gator bindings are the best I've ever had. I could care less about a company's riders, as long as they have good product and customer service. Good luck to Gator and all their employees.
This is probably the first summer in 13 years of riding that I didn't buy any new wake gear, except for a replacement pump, and it's because of the economy and gas prices. I'm sure there not the only wake company hurting bad right now.

(calummoore) · (calummoore) **Join Date: Nov 2007** 10-05-2008, 4:47 AM

Why would you question someone's judgement if they got a face tattoo? It's only outrageous to what societies expectations are. I don't understand why everyone has to be the same. Do people lose jobs if they get plastic surgery? People with tattoos just find tattooing more beautiful than trying to turn yourself into something your not.

What i just said made absolutely no sense but you get what i mean

(timmylikewake) · (timmylikewake) **Join Date: Dec 2006** 10-05-2008, 5:07 AM

Wasn't there an article with Randall where he said he was doing accounting work or something for his dad and he was doing really well with it? Maybe people would look past the tats and find out if he could do the job. The people that would judge because of the tattoo arent worth trying to work with or for anyway. IE the guy Sam who started this all. Someone who would prejudge someone they dont know or havent even met.

Where do people benefit from posting their asinine opinions? Sure right to free speech. Just wish some people had a dumb comment filter.

(snowman89) · (snowman89) **Join Date: Mar 2007** 10-05-2008, 6:38 AM

I think calling out sam on not hiring ethnic people is taking it a little too far and just an attempt to make him look worse. I agree that it sucks that people are judged because they have tattoos and piercings but everyone knows beforhand that there are a lot of people that either look down upon it, or simply can't hire somebody because they know other people will look down upon it.

But about gator boards that sucks, I think it's more about being a less popular board in a small industry than about randall leaving, where im from everyone I see rides liquid force and hyperlite but I have seen pretty much every brand of board on the local lakes except for gator boards. They look like they have a solid product but ive always just preffered another board.

(richd) · (richd) **Join Date: Oct 2003** 10-05-2008, 7:53 AM

I'd hire a guy anytime with tats anytime over a guy with a mullett - I draw the line there! Upload

On a more serious note: flashback to 1969, getting out of high school and having my parents warn me I'd never get a decent job until I cut my hair!

(lhlocal) · (lhlocal) **Join Date: Jun 2003** 10-05-2008, 8:08 AM

Maybe its time to start a thread about tatoos? In Sams defense, I dont hink its a personal thing for him, but the appearance to his customers. My company employs close to 100 poeple. Do I shy away from people with tatoos, facial piercings and such? Absolutely. Do I have an issue with it? Absolutely not. However the customer is the one paying my salary, and if tatoos and such still bear a negative stigma, then I have to hire accordingly. The bottom line is the customer pays my salary, and my salary pays a boat payment and for a vacation house in Florida. I will choose the customer any day.

By the way, best of luck to Gator. I've never ridden their stuff, but being a little guy, I always pull for the little guy.

(joshbuzz) · (joshbuzz) **Join Date: Sep 2007** 10-05-2008, 11:12 AM

Wow. Are you stupid? Comparing Gator to Hyperlite is just not smart. Gator has some great riders, I love the company and everyone I've met there, but they are a grassroots company. Ricky G. doesn't get near the press that Randall did, not saying he isn't a good rider cause he kills it, but the press on randall is huge. the difference in losing randall and losing parks, danny, and chad is simple. Hyperlite already had such a big name in the industry sure they took a blow but they still had riders to pick up the slack. Rusty, JD Webb was thrown in the mix Erik Ruck was there Rathy etc. Sure Gator still has some great riders such as Ricky, Racinelli, Rattray, and their skate team is unreal, but these guys are more grassroots than most. Ricky does some travelling, but with the new child I don't think we'll see as much of him. AJ is killing it but still doesn't get the kind of publicity that randall does and rattray the same thing.

Best of luck to Erik and the Gator crew, but saying that losing Randall wasn't big is dumb.

Gator also just graduated seminary and is more than qualified to enter the ministry. That would be awesome to see as I think he could make a huge impact!

(wakeboardsam) · (wakeboardsam) **Join Date: Jun 2008** 10-05-2008, 11:20 AM

quote:
By Chris (committed) on Saturday, October 04, 2008 - 10:49 am:

Sam, your a sad dude, and very bad at business too. Do you hire dark skinned people? Or can they not get through the gates as well? Save it. I've lived in those gated communities for years and I was also a contractor as well, in SoCal, Newport, Laguna, Dana Point, San Clemente, and I've never had one single issue rolling through the gates-and I am slapped (this means full of ink)up from the neck down. It's called CALLING IN to the guard shack and when you do, they don't ask for descriptions! Any neighborhood that did WHAT you pretend they do, would be sued in a heartbeat. And truth be told, I would sue the crap out of you and whatever lame hood you were working in-if I had been THAT welder. Then you would work for me, but in the WAREHOUSE.
End rant.

Chris,
If you spent some time in school, either business or law, instead of in the tattoo parlor you might know that having tattoos does not put you in a protected class even here in the socialist state of California and that you couldn't sue me for squat! You should go to law school and become a lawyer. Oops, I forgot you probably can't because no firm will take you on as an intern or otherwise because your slapped! You obviously have no concept of real property law and the bundle of rights that go with property ownership.

I'll see you in the warehouse!

Just another guy that calls fowl ball because he is discriminated against for something that he does, and is fully free to do, but doesn't understand the flip side of the coin. I bet you hang with Susan Serandin or the Dixie Chicks. They both said and did things that later they said they were being discriminated for. Freedom of speech is not free, you are responsible for what you say and do.

Protected Classes -
Race - Federal: Civil Rights Act of 1964
Ethnicity
Religion or sect - Federal: Civil Rights Act of 1964
Color - Federal: Civil Rights Act of 1964
National origin - Federal: Civil Rights Act of 1964
Age (40 and over) - Federal: Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967
Sex - Federal: Equal Pay Act of 1963 & Civil Rights Act of 1964
Familial status (Housing, cannot discriminate for having children, exception for senior housing)
Sexual orientation (in some jurisdictions and not in others)
Disability status - Federal: Vocational Rehabilitation and Other Rehabilitation Services of 1973 & Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990
Veteran status - Federal Vietnam Era Veterans Readjustment Assistance Act of 1974
Genetic Information - Federal: Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act

I am sure that Randall Harris has been discriminated against a lot for his tattoos and the lifestyle that he lives. I'm sure Correct Craft and the Meloons didn't exactly want to sponser a guy or have him as a spokesman...

(phantom5815) · (phantom5815) **Join Date: Jul 2002** 10-05-2008, 2:11 PM

Well you can't really throw CC into that mix since they do sponsor Scott Byerly .
It's all about representing the company/business. Tatoos and/or piercing that cannot be hidden/removed from public view, will more than likely keep that person from getting certain jobs, regardless of experience. You bashers just need to get over that fact.
Mr Ingram has the right to protect his business to what he deems appropriate.

Hopefully Gator & CO will be able to return once this economic crisis levels off.

(eaglejackson) · (eaglejackson) **Join Date: Oct 2004** 10-05-2008, 2:59 PM

Sam, one point worth mentioning, your last one about CC not wanting to sponsor a guy with such extensive tattoos. CC does sponsor Scott Byerly, and has for many years. Byerly's got tattoos all over his body. I can't really say more or less than Randall's but they are at least in the same league! They even have a special Byerly edition boat this year.

Oops, I see Phantom beat me to it!

As Sam says, the people who work for you reflect on your business to your customers. Tattoos, piercings, etc may keep some people from hiring you. For better or worse, that's how it is, and something people should keep in mind beforehand.

(Message edited by eaglejackson on October 05, 2008)

(wakeboardsam) · (wakeboardsam) **Join Date: Jun 2008** 10-05-2008, 3:22 PM

I don't know byerly's history, but does he have the same history with other needles that Randall has? This goes back to my original comment about him having employment trouble...

(wakeboardsam) · (wakeboardsam) **Join Date: Jun 2008** 10-05-2008, 3:26 PM

it's not just the tats, it's the entire package. Maybe Randall's seminary school education will help him.

The biggest complaint I have with gator boards is that I can't demo them! Same thing with the other small board co's

(timmylikewake) · (timmylikewake) **Join Date: Dec 2006** 10-05-2008, 3:45 PM

I dont think you have any right to allude to needles. Your stepping over a line you shouldnt even come close to. Profile says your 36 but you post like a gossiping 14 yr old girl. I think GB would be glad you cant get on their product.

(timmylikewake) · (timmylikewake) **Join Date: Dec 2006** 10-05-2008, 3:53 PM

And unfortunately I think Randall may have to read all this crap.

I think I speak for a lot of peopleon here, let Randalls past be his past. His present and future is amazing, his riding is sicker than ever, and if you talk to people around him, he is one of the best guys to represent your product. Keep doing what your doing, dont bother reading the crap opinions of this guy.

(bailey) · (bailey) **Join Date: May 2001** 10-05-2008, 5:37 PM

I would say most of the people who wakeboard don't even know who the pros are. They are the people who got a board with a boat and decided it was cool. Obviously the percentage of people on wakeworld who know who the pros are is much higher. I would be willing to bet the thing that kills Gator boards isn't their riders but the fact that their boards aren't in all the shops.
And to the second part of this discussion. I like tatoos but the people who get them on their faces and hands should know that people will descriminate against them even if they shouldn't.

(adam_balon) · (adam_balon) **Join Date: Jul 2003** 10-05-2008, 5:38 PM

sam i dont have tattoos and i am a small business owner. great employees are great employees regardless of race, tattoos, hair style, clothing etc....

your "i'll see you in the warehouse" comment shows your true colors and what type of boss and person you are at heart. i once had a boss like you and i am now is biggest competitor. i feel sorry for your employees.

(adam_balon) · (adam_balon) **Join Date: Jul 2003** 10-05-2008, 5:42 PM

ohh and it would be sad to see gator go.... but i also look forward to what randall brings to company. justin looked beyond the ink in his skin and saw a business man that has outlasted many in this business.

bring it randall.

(wakerider111) · (wakerider111) **Join Date: Jul 2006** 10-05-2008, 6:23 PM

You wanna see someone with a largely unacceptable public immage? try this guy? Randall is pretty "tame-looking" compared to this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adEjmXZOBnA

Randall's the man by the way...

(joshbuzz) · (joshbuzz) **Join Date: Sep 2007** 10-05-2008, 6:33 PM

There shouldn't even be an arguement here about tats. Randalls tats don't with hold him from any business in wakeboarding and thats where his hearts at just like Byerly. I think it is ignorant to think that Gator losing Randall didn't hurt them quite a bit. Sure their boards aren't in all board shops, they're a grassroots company Gator knew that going into it but the fact that our economy is crap, and they lost randall is huge.

(nsolis220) · (nsolis220) **Join Date: May 2007** 10-05-2008, 7:23 PM

Forget the tattoos, but you know Sam that Randall is a born again Christian nad lives a Clean life now in the same path as Jesus did. We all make mistakes, there different but not better or worse than other peoples mistakes just different, we have no right to judge others ever!I really look at Randall with the highest amount of respect as a person. I think its B.S. that people would even be talking about this. It has nothing to do with Gator and the reason he left was to own a company not to work for one. Thats a life long dream for most, probally including you too.

(Message edited by nsolis220 on October 05, 2008)

(joshbuzz) · (joshbuzz) **Join Date: Sep 2007** 10-05-2008, 7:42 PM

I agree that he had a great reason for leaving Gator, I would love to be in Randall's position right now as co-owner of one of the most hyped companies in a while, I'm just saying that it's entirely possible that once he left Gator they felt the impact and that's pretty hard to argue with.

(pyrosmurf) · (pyrosmurf) **Join Date: Apr 2002** 10-05-2008, 8:57 PM

Good to see this stayed on topic for all of three seconds.

There is much more to Gator's situation than just Randall moving on. I hope they can pull through. Its a tough time to be in the wakeboard industry right now.

(calummoore) · (calummoore) **Join Date: Nov 2007** 10-05-2008, 10:07 PM

Sam, You are a douchebag. I know your type. The guy that sits on his high horse and looks down upon others because they do not follow the same life plan that you have. But if they do you shut them down so you can remain above them.

Sad life dude

(jpod) · (jpod) **Join Date: Feb 2006** 10-05-2008, 10:21 PM

i agree with calum.

(wakeboardsam) · (wakeboardsam) **Join Date: Jun 2008** 10-05-2008, 10:36 PM

You guys crack me up with your intellect. You bash me for judging, but then you judge me!

Can you say sheep?? Baaa, Baaa...

(stephan) · (stephan) **Join Date: Nov 2002** 10-06-2008, 12:47 AM

***Sigh*** I love Wakeworld. Where else can you mix a semi-intelligent conversation on wakeboarding, societal norms, name calling and economics?

Nowhere, I tell you, nowhere.

(wakeandsnow27) · (wakeandsnow27) **Join Date: Jun 2004** 10-06-2008, 6:15 AM

wow...
I'll stick up for Sam here. His comments about "see you in the warehouse" and what not were in direct response to a near identical comment. He has a very good point...and being a small business owner myself I would not hire someone who's tattoos could be offensive towards my clients.
When a person is getting a tattoo they take full resposibility knowing how it could affect them in the future.
We're talking tattoos here people, not a birth defect.... its a choice situation that has consequences one must live with.

And congrats for Randall becoming a Christian...that is absolutely awesome.

(mellowman) · (mellowman) **Join Date: Jul 2007** 10-06-2008, 6:30 AM

"Why would you question someone's judgement if they got a face tattoo? It's only outrageous to what societies expectations are"

Maybe because in our society, the stat I have always heard was, 3 out of every 4 who get facial tattoo's commit suicide. If that is the case, then a facial tattoo is at least some sort of sign that somebody could be in some trouble, at least mentally.

(ironj32) · (ironj32) **Join Date: Jan 2007** 10-06-2008, 6:46 AM

"...3 out of every 4 who get facial tattoo's commit suicide."
^^^^^^
i would like to see some references or statistics to back this up. that seems to be an outrageous correlation without some evidence.

(socalwakepunk) · (socalwakepunk) **Join Date: Dec 2002** 10-06-2008, 7:07 AM

Well. for the Gator thing, man that is a bummer. Have been friends with Randall, Ricky G. and Troy Flick for a while, wish nothing but the best for all of them and everyone else in our small wakeboard world.

As for the tattoo/appearance comments, well, I see much less tie wearing in the business world, mure business casual. Even the CEO of my company goes on national TV commercials no tie, sleaves rolled up. More visible tattoos and piercings out there these days. I think that as the old guys retire, and the new guys move up, so does the old school mentality. As time goes on, I think people will be less stereotyped by appearances, individuality and creativeness will be more valued. It's a good thing.

Sam might want to stay away from Canyon Lake (one of the largest gated communities in the world) - a lot of inked up peeps running around here.

(onthewatermo) · (onthewatermo) **Join Date: Jan 2008** 10-06-2008, 7:29 AM

Sidenote: saw an interview with Ricky G on Fuel TV where he said, "if you want to get pulled over by the cops/water patrol, hang out with me"...the implied context of the comment was that he has full sleeve tattoos and understands that there might be some underpinning societal preconceived notions about his appearance.

(socalwakepunk) · (socalwakepunk) **Join Date: Dec 2002** 10-06-2008, 7:29 AM

Another off topic thought...Who do you think is more responsible for the economic mess that we are in right now, the Suits or the Tatts? Does W have any tatts? How about Obama? McCain? Biden? Palin? Should Jason Ellis (I know, Austalian) have thrown his name in the hat? Just thinkin'...

(Message edited by socalwakepunk on October 06, 2008)

(balr54) · (balr54) **Join Date: May 2004** 10-06-2008, 7:29 AM

As far as it goes with Gator, I was sad to hear the news and I hope the best for everybody involved. Arian and Mark from GB and others there have helped me out a ton with the spring cancer benefit that I put on and have helped make it the success that it has been. I couldn't thank them more.

Now this...

"The biggest complaint I have with gator boards is that I can't demo them! Same thing with the other small board co's"

Sam, Maybe you should go talk to your local boardshop about your problem, not the board company.

Also, you are going much further than the employment issue with tattoos, you are questioning their character because they have tattoos. That is lame man.

"it's not just the tats, it's the entire package. Maybe Randall's seminary school education will help him."

Have you ever messed up man, went down the wrong path. Your path just isn't in the public eye as much. Why don't you tell us all every wrong move you have made so we can judge you on it.

Instead of critizing him on his past, why don't you compliment Randall on the life changes that he has made!

(jarrod) · (jarrod) **Join Date: May 2003** 10-06-2008, 7:32 AM

Let's keep on topic. Who gives a fck about who Sam would hire to work for him? This isn't the "Does Sam discriminate thread."

RIP Gator. I don't know much of their story, but I always thought is was cool that Vandall was getting pro models even when he wasn't really riding. Without knowing the facts, it seemed like Gator carried Randall for a while. But maybe that comment is way off base. I sensed some loyalty there that seemed like it would last forever.

(coz) · (coz) **Join Date: May 2008** 10-06-2008, 7:34 AM

[quote]Derek,
I build high end homes, almost exclusively on the ocean, from Santa Monica to Santa Barbara. The answer to your question is no, Randall couldn't work for me, unless he worked in the warehouse. There is no way that I would let my customers see him. Nothing against Randall at all, I just try to represent my company in a professional manner and require that my employees look professional. We had a really, really good welder working for use who got a tattoo on his face. I had to let him go because no matter what I did he couldn't get past the guard gate to the community that we were working in. I had to go meet him at the gate every time he needed to get back in. You have to admit that although looks aren't everything public perception is very important specially when you are trying to make a living. I know it is a free country (or at least it was), but you have to think about your actions and the consequences of those actions.

I know plenty Hells Angels that are lawyers and accountants, they have tats and piercings, but they will be the first to admit that the tats and piercings have limited their clientele and their job prospects.

Also, what experience does Randall have working in construction or any other job? [quote]

Sounds like someone tooting their own horn here

As a contractor from SoCal, 2 classifications B-1 & C-6 I like you have built customs in Dana Point and Lido Isle N.B. and an s-load of specs in H.B. I'm now located in AZ

My first priority is customer satisfaction and on time contract completion, so if my framer has tats all the way to his ass but still does a great job in a timely manner and makes me and my customer happy WTF is the difference between him and the no tat guy?

If you have a tat free crew does that make you a better contractor than the rest? No

(jarrod) · (jarrod) **Join Date: May 2003** 10-06-2008, 7:42 AM

Holy crap

justinh 10-06-2008, 7:44 AM

Okay, just tunning in (and having skipped most of the tatto conversation).

Whats the word on Gator??

(behindtheboat) · (behindtheboat) **Join Date: Aug 2006** 10-06-2008, 7:50 AM

Does anyone know if they are for sure done, or can they be saved? Their product seemed to get a lot stronger(more competitive) and more coverage going into next year, and I think/thought they would be able to pick up a lot more market share from the larger companies.

(joshbuzz) · (joshbuzz) **Join Date: Sep 2007** 10-06-2008, 7:52 AM

All of you take your contractor tattoo problems elsewhere and lets focus on Gator here.

I too felt that there was some superceding loyalty between Gator and Randall that wouldn't break. I'm sure Gator had a huge influence on Randall turning his life around, and I think I would have a hard time leaving somebodys company after that!

(wakeshoe) · (wakeshoe) **Join Date: Jun 2004** 10-06-2008, 8:55 AM

Guys,
I could give a @#$% about tatoos, piercings or whether you wear a merkin as a goatee!! How about the subject at hand? Can anyone definitively provide the status on Gator as a company????

(to_blind) · (to_blind) **Join Date: Mar 2007** 10-06-2008, 8:56 AM

Coz,

I didn't say that !! I think you have misquoted me, Sam the man said that!

(coz) · (coz) **Join Date: May 2008** 10-06-2008, 9:59 AM

Sorry D

back on topic.

(solo) · (solo) **Join Date: Oct 2001** 10-06-2008, 10:01 AM

How about staring a Tattoo's and employment thread? As for GB, They are still very much alive. The next few months should be very telling. Go buy some product!

(coz) · (coz) **Join Date: May 2008** 10-06-2008, 10:05 AM

I've looked everywhere and it looks like it's still BAU, hope so I like GB

(wazzy) · (wazzy) **Join Date: Nov 2001** 10-06-2008, 10:06 AM

I agree with WakeShoe.....

If it is true, sucks for Troy (one of the nicest guys I have meet in the industry), and the rest of the crew over @ GB....

GOD I hope it's not true (remember a similar thread about a year ago)....

GB 4 LIFE

(slipknot) · (slipknot) **Join Date: Aug 2001** 10-06-2008, 10:08 AM

Somebody tell tool wakeboardsam that its 2008 not 1957. Crawl back under the rock you were under.

"Wakeboarding Ruined My Life" Gator Boards

Eric is a legend in this sport and will not be going anywhere.

(teamvaldez) · (teamvaldez) **Join Date: Apr 2003** 10-06-2008, 12:15 PM

I don't know if this is common knowledge. Do you know what happened to the Gator bus? Eric donated it, fixed it wrapped and paid for it to be transformed for the Radical Riders tour that travels along with the pro tour. That speaks volumes to me about Erics integrity and his love for people and for the Lord. I don't have any clue about Gators financial health at all, I had thought that it was backed by family, but in this economic catastrophe, we are all affected. In this case, it may be (I hope not) but it maybe Gator Boards. There may also something in store for the Eric that we have no idea about! And for Troy as well for that matter!Our thoughts and prayers go out to all involved!
And as for the commentary about Randall? Judge not lest ye be judged> (and I really don't care WHERE you build houses!)

(joshbuzz) · (joshbuzz) **Join Date: Sep 2007** 10-06-2008, 12:23 PM

Words of wisdom from Momma Valdez!

(hawaiianstiln) · (hawaiianstiln) **Join Date: Oct 2004** 10-06-2008, 1:16 PM

wow, I just wasted my time reading a virtual argument over nothing!

Good Luck Gator (Eric) and good luck Randall, you guys have really helped promote the sport of wakeboarding! Keep it going and keep your heads up......

(wakeworld) · (wakeworld) **Join Date: Jan 1997** 10-06-2008, 1:32 PM

I just got this from Gator's Vice President, Brian Allred...

Just to set the record straight, We have had to lay a few people off but are not even close to going out of business. We had our best sales in company history in '08 and with the '09 product looking as good as it does, I think '09 will even be better. Product will be on the water in 30 days and Gator Boards will be around for many more years to come.

(romes) · (romes) **Join Date: Sep 2006** 10-06-2008, 1:41 PM

SICK

(wakeboardsam) · (wakeboardsam) **Join Date: Jun 2008** 10-06-2008, 1:45 PM

quote:
By TeamValdez (teamvaldez) on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 12:15 pm:

And as for the commentary about Randall? Judge not lest ye be judged> (and I really don't care WHERE you build houses!)

Oh, I think it's easily noted that I have been judged both here and otherwise. Forgive me if the location that I build houses is a problem for you. I only mentioned it to help describe my point of view. Right or wrong the neighborhood that I have built the last three houses in wouldn't even let me in during the day with my dump truck, I had to bring it in at night and store it in a temporary building. This all relates to my point of not allowing someone of a certain look into the neighborhood.

Further more, if you are going to spout the bible, namely Matthew 7, quote it all:

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Mk. 4.24 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. 6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Now can you even tell me what that means??? Maybe you can get Randall to explain it to you.

I would have stopped commenting on this but when you keep bashing me for my point of view and my experiences I think I should reply. I will hold to my original thought that Randall will have trouble getting a job in other lines of work. Also, I will hold to the fact that I think most people are wrong when they think that Randall simply left Gator. I imagine that they discussed it, planned it, pursued it, etc... I don't think you grow up wakeboarding together, doing the "things" they did together, leading one another to or finding "god" together and then just say goodbye. If you think that is the way it works with friends, then I am sorry for you and your friends. Gator didn't lose Randall, together they moved on!

(ride900) · (ride900) **Join Date: May 2007** 10-06-2008, 1:47 PM

That's what Bear Stearns said the night before the filed Bankruptcy. "Were not going anywhere" I think that, is a very presumptive statement in this nation right now. I hope that Gator isn't going anywhere but I'm just saying nobody can say there FINE right now....NOBODY......I know alot of people that were more than fine and now are Foreclosing, Or filing BK because not only did they lose their jobs but their retirement is gone too!!!

(knarbar) · (knarbar) **Join Date: Nov 2006** 10-06-2008, 2:15 PM

Man a thread tunring into a heated bible battle and yet somehow Im not suprised. No wonder they say alot of the top riders get on here and laugh at some of us. I know I replied and posted a few dumb things so Im not innocent by any means, but bringing god into a thread on wakeworld.... REALLY? Dont take that the wrong way Im not bashing anyones beliefs, but its freakin WAKEWORLD

(wakereviews) · (wakereviews) **Join Date: Sep 2006** 10-06-2008, 2:21 PM

has there been a release of the 2009 Gator lineup online somewhere? the site still shows 2008.

also, anyone familiar with Gator know which 2009 board would be most similar to an 06 Watson 142?

(lhlocal) · (lhlocal) **Join Date: Jun 2003** 10-06-2008, 3:03 PM

I talked with Brian on the phone a year or so ago when he was working for Crown. I was extremely impressed with his knowledge of the industry and business in general. Times are tough, and its important to have the right people in their to make good and sometimes difficult decisions. I think Brian has the ability to pull them through a difficult time on our economy.

Also I backed up Sam on the tat thing, but I need to pull my support back a little. Someone's past is exactly that. In my opinion it was way past the line of good taste to bring up someones past struggles. People who have struggled with and beaten addiction are sometimes stronger than those who have never had an issue to begin with. Props to Randall on taking care of bizness and I hope he never has to pick up a hammer if he doesnt want to.