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Old     (sangster)      Join Date: Aug 2002       12-09-2003, 10:53 PM Reply   
Just went in for annual and winter service and noticed they only had a few 03 Sangers on the floor and the rest of the WB boats were all Tige??? What is up with that? They said they had no issues with Sanger only that they think that Sanger is getting left behind by other makers. I would guess it's as much about the margin in each boat as anything and there is likely more of that in the Tige's. I was disappointed - now I will have to go the boat show to see the V215.
Old     (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       12-09-2003, 11:10 PM Reply   
Left behind?

VLX is based on a mid 90s boat. SAN is based on a mid 90s boat. X2 is based on a 90s boat and a better choice than the XSTAR (IMO).

V215 is new and looks sweet! I can't wait to see it at the next boat show.
Old     (deltajake)      Join Date: May 2003       12-10-2003, 12:13 AM Reply   
Barry Paulsons is gone in Livermore or atleast the signs are down as I drive by. That opened the Tige for San Ramon and Delta Sport Boats added Sanger to there shop which makes them one of the better shops to look at some different boats since they now have Sanger, Supra & Moomba.
Old     (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       12-10-2003, 9:36 AM Reply   
Yeah but they still use wood in their boats which will eventually rot and lead to a major replacement. They FINALLY came out with a new boat. It was like 8 years before that they last came out with a new design. v210/210 that was it for a long while and they even dumped their barefoot & ski boats. Those other companies have been coming out with new designs while still releasing their older based boats.
Old     (typhoon)      Join Date: Jul 2001       12-10-2003, 9:48 AM Reply   
the wood is not an issue. it is encapsulated and that issue has been beat to death on this site in the past.
Old     (jefefitz)      Join Date: May 2002       12-13-2003, 3:40 PM Reply   
Barry Paulson's in Livermore is now Ultimate Watersports. I haven't been there yet but I hear it is a really cool shop. They should be open soon.
Old     (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-13-2003, 9:19 PM Reply   
Stephen, Sanger has one of the best wakes by far when weighted correctly. Why would they need to change a hull that works perfectly, just to say that have? I have yet to see a 'new design' that's revolutionized the sport of wakeboarding. Ultimately, they've really only changed amenities.

B-
Old     (goth2o)      Join Date: Sep 2003       12-14-2003, 12:08 AM Reply   
I am not one to get in a Ford Chevy argument but...Do me a favor and run a search on boats here on this site. You tell how many Bad things are said about Sanger! Hell there is a guy that bought one over seas and had it shipped beacuse of all the good reviews on it. If you want Bling Bling there is a crap load out there. But remember whats cool today is not later...I you wanna ride, Find a 210 and beg them for a pull you will see!

OOPS oh yeah there are negative's...
1 Wood, hmmm didnt Chris Columbus Find America in a wood boat?

2.Hump deck, Sit on one or lay on one and see if its really a big deal. Again no complaint from ANYONE yet on mine

3. Low gunnel, Well I did a test. I saw this Powerturner on my lake so I already new the water was going to be jacked so i went right in the middle of all the rollers going every which way and guess what I didnt get wet at all. It really makes you feel low in the water but its not bad.


My good friend has a 04 VLX and we had a chat tonight about if a vlx is Worth 15-20K more than a Sanger and he even said no And hes die hard Malibu.

Another point I wanna make is....never mind you get my point now go ahead and bash me.....whatever

~G
Old     (hatepwcs)      Join Date: Mar 2002       12-14-2003, 1:40 AM Reply   
Stephen said- "They FINALLY came out with a new boat. It was like 8 years before that they last came out with a new design". 2002 V230

That makes 2 things you are wrong about regarding Sanger.
Old     (blabel)      Join Date: Jul 2001       12-14-2003, 11:25 AM Reply   
Some people just have to find fault in something they don't own. Out of all the boats I've been in over the years the Sanger would be one of my top choices.
Old     (typhoon)      Join Date: Jul 2001       12-14-2003, 1:34 PM Reply   
ultimate watersports is owned by cope & macphetres
Old     (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       12-14-2003, 1:39 PM Reply   
What was the first? If wood is so great then how come all modern boat builders are trying to get away from it as quickly as possible. So because Chris Colombus sailed here 511 years ago with wood does that make it cool. I'm sorry but technology has come a long way and I like to think that an improved method is something I'd like to have incorporated in my investment.

I never said that the v230 was new this year, I've seen it at the boat show for the last few years so yeah 2002 does sound about right. Before that when was their newest design? You say "if it ain't broke don't fix it", but personally when compared to other maufacturers it is "broke" in comparison. Blabel like you have your opinion on what boat you would purchase, I too have mine and from all my experience Sanger is not on that list, for the above reasons that I listed. So as of yet I don't think I have been wrong about anything, I merely stated my criteria for quality. I'm not trying to find fault. I'm sorry if my experiences with Sanger haven't been great like all of yours, just don't get all bitter about it, damn. The one who stands out from the crowd always gets dumped on, woo hoo I guess it's my turn
Old     (goth2o)      Join Date: Sep 2003       12-14-2003, 6:39 PM Reply   
Well you know what stephan I was going to invite you to be a third to your local lake considering I live here, and have seen your posts but I guess my sanger is to dated for ya huh?
Old     (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-14-2003, 8:36 PM Reply   
________________________________________________
What was the first? If wood is so great then how come all modern boat builders are trying to get away from it as quickly as possible.
________________________________________________

Perusing the thread, I don't see anyone who said wood is great. I don't even see anyone who is *implying* that wood is better.
_________________________________________________
I'm sorry but technology has come a long way and I like to think that an improved method is something I'd like to have incorporated in my investment.
_________________________________________________

I hardly think that fiberglass is new technology, Stephen. Who says it's an improved method? I believe it's a give and take situation. Without wood stringers you get a boat that doesn't have the same dampening, doesn't ride as solid and is not nearly as rigid..
With wood you get a boat that weighs more and has the potential to rott. And, the rott issue is in question with the new marine woods. Accroding to the supplier, there hasn't been a single case of rott since using the new woods. I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but, it actually costs more to produce a wooden stringer boat than it does to produce an all glass boat. The cost isn't in the material, it's in the production. From what I have been able to gather it's almost twice as much. Why would a company use a more costly method of production if the materials were inferior? I'm asking.
Also, a boat isn't an investment, it's a depreciating asset. I hope you're not looking to make money on the boat you chose. Boats tend to suck your pocketbook dry.
_________________________________________________
I never said that the v230 was new this year, I've seen it at the boat show for the last few
years so yeah 2002 does sound about right.
_________________________________________________


Actually, Sanger has come out with two new boats in less than 2 years.2002 V230 and the 2004 V215. Prior to that? they used a proven hull.

_________________________________________________
Before that when was their newest design?
_________________________________________________

'96 was the the newest designed *hull* prior to the v230, but, I don't understand what that has to do with the quality of the boats. care to explain?
_________________________________________________Y ou say "if it ain't broke don't fix it", but personally when compared to other
maufacturers it is "broke" in comparison.
_________________________________________________

It's broke, huh? what's broke about it?
_________________________________________________
Blabel like you have your opinion on what boat you would purchase, I too have mine and from all my experience Sanger is not on that list, for the above reasons that I listed.
_________________________________________________

I'm curious, what is your experience with Sanger?
Seen em on the lake? Riden behind them? Driven?

_________________________________________________
So as of yet I don't think I have been wrong
about anything, I merely stated my criteria for quality.
_________________________________________________

Unless you can provide a single case of the current marine wood rotting, you are wrong.
_________________________________________________
I'm not trying to find fault.
_________________________________________________

in fact, you are. Read your first post..

_________________________________________________
just don't get all bitter about it, damn. The one who stands out from the crowd always gets dumped on, woo hoo I guess it's my turn
_________________________________________________

I'm not the least bit bitter, my boat doesn't define me so I don't take it personal. You can't make comments like you did and assume it will go unchallenged.

I think if you search this board and others, you'll see nothing but good things said about sanger. I have yet to hear of an unhappy Sanger owner. Even the major anti-wood guys like them.

Nice profile pic. If you're ever in the central valley and want to ride, look me up. We'll be happy to take you out, assuming my boat doesn't rott by then :-)

B-

(Message edited by Barry on December 14, 2003)
Old     (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       12-14-2003, 11:22 PM Reply   
Hey I'm not trying to step on any toes here folks. Just looking to stir it up a little. That and school just got out and I've got way to much time on my hands. I am gracefully bowing out. Hope everyone gets to ride over the holidays, I know I am. Anyhoo enjoi
Old     (owaved)      Join Date: Oct 2001       12-14-2003, 11:38 PM Reply   
Barry and Stephen,
Don't want to get wrapped around the axle on this discussion, but a friend of mine has a Sanger V210 and we have tried some weight combos and I have not been impressed with the wake. How do you weight yours?

Dave
Old     (typhoon)      Join Date: Jul 2001       12-15-2003, 6:47 AM Reply   
wood is more expensive to use, that is why boat manufacturers are getting away from it.
Old     (sangeria)      Join Date: Dec 2003       12-15-2003, 7:07 AM Reply   
Back to the reason for this post...I for one am glad San Ramon boats dropped Sanger. Bunch of jerks in that place...they don't deserve to rep such a great boat!! Never had a good experience ih that place...
Old     (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       12-15-2003, 7:51 AM Reply   
Yo Gary, I'll say/do whatever you want me to for a ride. I willfully admit that I have no shame. It's a great quality and it only comes out in situations like this (wakeboarding involved).
Old    aka Bradley Beach            12-15-2003, 8:01 AM Reply   
I'm a Mastercraft owner and I even used to work for an MC dealer(long after I was an MC owner)... That being said my first experience with a Sanger was this past summer in Wichita, KS and I must say that this boat was VERY impressive! It was a Barefoot Sanger and this boat drove head above heels better than my MC 190... The horsepower and handling capabilities in this boat were absolutely amazing! Sangers are pretty rare in the midwest but I don't think they are any lower on the scale than any other high end performance boat!

That's just my 2 cents!
Old     (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-15-2003, 8:43 AM Reply   
Dave,
I weight mine according to what I'm /we're doing.

If I'm boarding, 700 in the locker 700 in the bow, at least 250 on each side of the motor, 500's are preferred but it sucks a huge amount of gas.

If I'm skating? 700 in the locker and at least 500 in the bow, 700 is preferred,

Surfing? 500 in the drivers side locker and at least two people in the same corner.

What weight configs have you guys tried? You want most of the weight up front.

B-

(Message edited by barry on December 15, 2003)
Old     (owaved)      Join Date: Oct 2001       12-15-2003, 10:59 AM Reply   
Barry,
Thanks...your last sentence nailed it. We have been putting the greatest amount of weight in the back, 500 on both sides of the motor and 250 in the bow. No one in our group really skates or surfs, but there has been a growing interest, so the added info is good.
Dave
Old     (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-15-2003, 11:22 AM Reply   
Try that and watch how big and clean the wake gets. :-)

and get back to me on it.. I wanna hear your reaction, please.

B-
Old     (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-15-2003, 11:26 AM Reply   
Stephen, I'm still curious as to what your experience with Sanger is. Ignore everything else if you wish..You can't leave me hanging on your experience. If you have none and what your saying is just an opinion, that's okay too..let me know either way.

B-
Old     (goth2o)      Join Date: Sep 2003       12-15-2003, 12:59 PM Reply   
Barry did you get you seat back?

Hey do you know where I can get a 15 amp breaker? you know the white pop up buttons like on our dash for the switches?

I put my heater in and used that extra switch buts its only 5 amp...soo pop,pop,pop...
Old     (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-15-2003, 1:00 PM Reply   
Talk to Ty on the breaker/switches.. he had some connection to get the same one that SAnger uses.

B-
Old     (owaved)      Join Date: Oct 2001       12-15-2003, 2:23 PM Reply   
Thanks again, Barry. I'll let you know how it goes.
Old     (typhoon)      Join Date: Jul 2001       12-15-2003, 2:45 PM Reply   
WHAT UP BARRY...sangers suck. I just traded up to a bayliner...bayliner-you know the company that makes Correct Craft...
gary, call t&w electric. they make the switches and breakers that sanger uses. talk to don.

the 30 amp breaker is 1658-G21-01-P10 30A but make sure you tell him a white button.
Old     (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-15-2003, 3:28 PM Reply   
Ty's such an electronics dork.

B-
Old     (typhoon)      Join Date: Jul 2001       12-15-2003, 3:37 PM Reply   
good stuff...
Old     (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       12-15-2003, 3:46 PM Reply   
My experience with Sanger is based through a friend who had a mid 90's 210. They had problems with their boat, basically the thing delaminated, the floor detached from the hull of the boat. the bond was weak and it just failed. I assume that since their process hasn't changed then this could be a problem still(or at least a freak occurence that could happen again).I also didn't like the wake the way they had it set up. Perhaps you have found the way to load it, the people I knew sank the butt end and the wake was way too sharp. to be fair I like how low they are to the water, I like boats where you feel like you are in the water as opposed to way up on top of it.

PS - Gary are you a Rocket Scientist? I'm guessing you work @ VAFB, is this correct? Hows "Star Wars" coming?
Old     (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-15-2003, 4:15 PM Reply   
Stephen,
That's interesting. I've asked Sanger if they'd ever had a boat rott since using the marine woods. The response was "Absolutely not".. in the same breath they told me that they did have two boats come back with structural problems (stringer delam) but, it was a fault in production and not wood failure. I didn't get any further into it since I was mainly concerned with the wood rott issue. I figure Sanger produces a couple hundred boats a year, assuming it was a v210 and they've had the same production numbers since it was introduced to the market, using a round figure of 200.. that would mean that 2 boats out of 1800 has come back for structural problems. I think it's safe to say that they're doing a pretty solid job.

More important than the problem is, how was it handled?
What year/model was your friends and what is his name? I'm going to ask and see if it was his boat.. wouldn't that be wild!

As for the wake, if it was a v210 and they loaded up the back only, yes, the wake would be very sharp, washy and soft.

B-
Old     (goth2o)      Join Date: Sep 2003       12-15-2003, 4:44 PM Reply   
mmm Star Wars, well Luke and Han are doing fine...Chewy is a little digruntled, but its the holidays and all.

your at Cal Poly I presume, why are you always needing a pull dont they have the CPWC up there with like 10 boats and 50 members?

Old     (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       12-16-2003, 11:01 AM Reply   
Let me tell you a little about the CPWBC, which i am a member of.

1) They are a bunch of wussies, no riding in the winter cuz it's cold, pathetic.

2) They are sponsored by Red Bull and have been working on the Grey Goose sponsorship forever. They drink way too much for me, I wanna ride & that's hard when the driver is faded.

3) They have 10 boats total and over 250 members, only 3-4 boats make it to the day trips.

4) The last day trip I went on one of the boats ended up in the bed of the truck that was towing it(pre-drinking), I kid you not.

That is all, pet the wookie for me...bueno
Old     (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-16-2003, 1:45 PM Reply   
Stephen, I'd like to find out if one of the two structure problems was your friends boat.
Are you going to use the 'get out of jail free' card on this one? :-)

B-
Old     (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       12-16-2003, 3:20 PM Reply   
My friends name was Dagan Robertson, his dads name is Clark. I'll keep that get out of jail card, but thanks. This is when I lived in So-Cal, that I knew them.

Barry- Do you ever ride up @ Shaver or Huntington? Sierra Summit is where we snowboard & I've always wondered how the riding is at those lakes.
Old     (fuel)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-16-2003, 9:43 PM Reply   
I wouldn't worry a bit about the wood rot issue. I used XL wood when I put in new stringers on my '83 Nautique. XL is badass. I left a sheet of it outside for over a year and no rot or even warping. It's some good stuff.

I have not ridden in or behind a Sanger, so I can't testify to their quality. However, I have only heard great things about them. If I were in the market for a new boat Sanger would be at the top of my list.
Old    crash_and_burn            12-17-2003, 3:00 PM Reply   
I have a friend who has more hours on his Sanger that everyone here combined. It runs great. We were out Sat. Great wake. As for the new sanger,, it just came out of the mold this last week. They had to change the back side to handle the weight of the ballist system. Had problems with slow response and akward steering. Mid Feb maybe they should be around.. Understand the one hot off the mold is bound for the boat show in Pleasaton

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