Best Surfstyle Board

Im still looking for a new board and cant decide what to get. I think i want a surfstyle ride that is on the more technical shorter side. Im 145lbs intermediate skill but want to step it up. I dont have opportunities to demo around here so i just have to rely on input from other riders so thats what im looking for. Ive been thinking the XBC Grom and like the idea of the XBC Skate but have no idea what its like. Also any other suggestions? Thanks

Where is around here?

Inland northwest. Spokane Washington and Northern Idaho.

try the inland surfer yellow loogey its sort of skim/surf or the inland red tide both great boards http://www.inlandsurfer.com/boards.htm


TRESHER SHREDDER (slashy/aerial style)
heard great things about it

http://www.shredstixx.com/boards.htm

Too far away for me to help, maybe you’re near Malibu Sue. I've got a Yellow, it's a great board. I wouldn't recommend a Red for someone weighing only 145.

If you want a surf style board the IS Blue is good but I'd also look hard at Shred Stixx and The Walker Project.

I'm a little big for a Walker Project F-18 but slowed my boat down so I could ride. I had a really good ride on it. The F-18 is really light and very fast rail to rail.

I rode John Rogers JaMaco and Piranha Shred Stixx boards. Those board rode really well too. I tip the scales around 210 to 230, the smaller Stixxtreme board doesn’t cut it for me.

One of the best surfstyle boards is the Josh Sleigh Surfskate from Placebo surfboards www,placebo1.com check out wake surf mags board shop www.wakesurfmag.com they have most of the surf style boards you need from the Shred Stix to the new Cabezas surfboards along with the New Wave Vehicles

i would say the josh sleigh model board for sure is your best bet at the moment, but watch out josh i just got my model shaped today, it took 5 hours in the shaping bay for us to come up with somethin sick, and its gunna blow your mind buddy! but ya the placebo rails. jl the footage is sick man, good work. ill see you boys on the 22 is it? south jetty? or is it the 20th?

Those edits were fun to do those are for the movie & i will pull them on mon working on the tulloch comp edits now. The MoB crew are doing the No Fear Air Show Today. Sleigh, Buran ,Gavin,and Jamie are going to slug it out down in P.B. for some big money, Josh Buran won the series ,but this is an invite only event .Good luck to the MoB team today .Stoked to hear about the new shape you can send a pic to mobinfo@mobgroup.tv Late, Grinch Tour Be there

Dylan, "best" is rather subjective and tends to get you the "mine!" sort of responses. Maybe you can help us quantify it a little better. What's important to you? Price? Ability to store it in a standard rack? Is durability an issue? Do you want to learn to do surface tricks, like 3's or more along the lines of aerial moves? Paint a picture of what you want in the board, please.

what do you guys mean by a surfstyle board?
I feel like I have outgrown my 5'11" landlock
and need a new board too

Dylan,
Ed was right. You probably are closer to me than most people on this board. I live in southern Idaho but travel up north in the summer. I have 2 Hyperlite surfboards - a 5'6" and a 6' one and a Phase 5 Prop. We use the Hpyerlites for teaching people. I prefer the feel of the Phase 5 to my bigger boards. Where do you surf in north Idaho?

Hey Cliff,

The commonly understood definition takes a little background. There are two rather distinct styles of riding, the first is Surfstyle, the other Skimstyle. We are starting to see some interest in longboards and noseriding, so presumably we can also include that as a separate style, albiet new to discussions here on wakeworld.

Surfstyle can be likened to surfboards that you would recognize in the ocean, only being used behind the boat. They have deep fins, normally multiple fins on the tail, a longer length (compared to a skimstyle board), are thicker (typically 1.5" and thicker) and when riding them, maneuvers are more along the lines of big powerful turns and aerial tricks. Common examples would be a Shred Stixx Stixxtreme, XBC Fish or Inland Blue Lake.

Contrast the above with a skimstyle board. Typically skimstyle boards are shorter (an average size is about 4'6" in length) thinner (commonly 5/8" and 3/4" thick) have a nose and tail shape outline that is similar (typically a pintail on both ends) and with a single fin that is relatively shallow - say 1.5" - on the tail. Maneuvers are mostly associated with a skateboard heritage. Examples would include shuvits and big spins.

Longboard style, as is being defined, are boards that are in excess of 7 feet in length, allowing the rider to walk the board and hopefully we will start seeing noseriding this season.

Hope that helps clarify.

I ride usually on Pend Oreille in the summers. As for what i am looking for in a board: I want to learn and beable to do surface 3's but also want to learn some areil tricks maby a shuvit or an ariel 3. Price is not really an issue unless i get into the 700 range but i want a high quality board that can do both of those things i said above, if thats possible. Also the need to fit in rack isnt much an issue. I already have a Shredstixx Stixtreme if that helps to decide on getting more of a specialized board aswell.

Walker Composite X 4.5 is a hybrid board that works well for airs, shuvits and all kinds of 3's.
http://www.thewalkerproject.com/category_s/3.htm#

Well if you are looking for the best possible board for you I'd recommend getting a board custom made to your weight, height, riding preference, ability, and quality of boat wake. All of these factors play a role in the way a board is going to ride and it sounds like you aren't interested in settling.

Ok, I'm going to make my recommendation and outline the reasons behind it. To recap you're in the 145-pound range with intermediate skills and a desire to improve that skill set.

All of the boards mentioned above are certainly quality boards, but your statment, which I have quoted below is what caught my attention:

"I want to learn and beable to do surface 3's but also want to learn some areil tricks maby a shuvit or an ariel 3."

Surface three's and aerial tricks can be accomplished on just about any of the boards listed, but the shuv is a different animal.

When you throw the shuv, the tail of the board becomes the nose and that poses a few problems. First, boards with deeper fins and with a fairly substantial gap between the fins are problematic. With the fins forward, the fin closest to the wake tends to grab and wants to spin the board 180 degrees. Additionally deeper fins exacerbate that problem by reaching deeper to the water.

For skimboards in the ocean, the undisputed king of tail shapes is the pin. There are many benefits of this shape and one is stability. If you study boards like the Inland 4Skim or Phase 5 Prop, you'll notice that the nose and tail outlines are very similar. When these boards are ridden revert (nose first), the pintail shape of the nose offers stability.

IMO, when trying to learn a shuv, you'll want as much help with stability upon landing as you can get. While boards like the Walker Composite X 4.5 and Walzer Alpha (I do believe that is the new name of the twin fin) can be shuv'ed, I don't believe they are your best option for learning a shuv.

A single shallow fin, closer to the tail will make learning the shuv easier. The shuv out will take some practice, but the learning that first shuv is, IMO, easiest on a skimstyle board. This style will also allow you to learn surface three's. Aerial tricks will be possible, but the amplitude will be diminished compared to boards with deeper fins and more drive.

Specifically, I'd recommed you look at these boards:

Calibrated Telum 53" (the smallest size)
Inland 4skim
Liquid Force Custom 4'2" (not my first choice)
Phase 5 Icon
Walzer Skim (newest model to their line).

The Walzer offers the most customization and as Sean Ward points out it can be semi-custom made for you.

That's my 2 cents.

why re-invent the surfboard or skimboard? is the wake behind a boat really that much different than a small wave in the ocean? living at the beach, we've always had a quiver of surfboards and skimboards that we take on boating trips that work just fine for "wakesurfing" (what we've called "freeboarding" for over 40 years) IMO all this is just marketing hype... just go out and have fun! it's not what you ride but how you ride it!!!

(Message edited by rio_sanger on May 08, 2007)

(Message edited by rio_sanger on May 08, 2007)

Yeah, I think it is. Fresh water vs Salt water, it never closes out and you always traverse the wake behind a boat. Not to argue your point rio sanger, for many folks - just as you say, if you've got an old surfboard, I'm sure it's fine. There are many of us that seek greater performance - beyond "fine" and if they have the skills to use it - why NOT reinvent the boards? No paddling means we can use thinner and shorter boards. Personally, I think wakesurf specific boards perform better than "fine" :

our skimboards are about 4'-6" long 3/4" inch thick and about 20" in. wide...is that much different than what you're using? (see skimonline.com)...those are my boys

no fins, I guess is the only diff ! just think it's funny that this seems to be a "new" sport that I've been doing for 40 years!!! yes I'm 55... you and I might have more in common than surfing

Yeah actually, we've shaped down to 4'2" (one 3'6" ), thickness from 1.1" to 2.0"...rails have been hard, soft, 60/40. Widths from 18" out to 24" and futures fins on the board above that is only about 4'5". Measurably different, IMO. Just the thickness alone gives pretty significant ride differences. Not to mention composite construction - abs/d-cell rails and eps core. I'm sure your boys are killing it. I've seen some of those pics. Doesn't Sean Ward photo for skimonline? He's always talking about tropical climates

LOL - Is AARP hitting you up for membership? I will never forget the day Burger King gave me my first senior discount!

Old men rule!

Take care Chris

which kids are yours? (I've been in Laguna/ Newport almost every other weekend for the last 2 years filming and I'm sure I've seen them around and vice-versa.)

(edit: the twins?)

(Message edited by caskimmer on May 08, 2007)

Jeff,I may have to eat some crow here you've made good points in this and other threads on choosing boards.I'm thinking of picking up a Walker 5.0 composite for our Mem weekend trip my boys and some friends will be along to try it out along w/me. Do you think that board is enough different from the ocean skimboards we've been using?

LOL - No crow eating Chris, we are just having a discussion. Let me give you my take on the Comp X 5.0.

I'm not exactly sure what it is, but I've experienced it with the Inland Surfer Boards and also with the Composite X. Perhaps it's the toe-in angle of the fins, or something with epoxy construction, but the Composite X is fast down-the-line. I found the same to be true with the Inland Yellow.

The outline is ok, nothing to write home about. The Comp X isn't great for boosting airs, it tends to be a little sticky. There isn't much nose rocker, which is partly why it's as fast as it is...however, hard radical turns on steeper wakes will cause the nose to catch in the flats if you aren't careful.

Rail-to-rail is...moderate, it's nothing like say a Walzer or Piranaha, but it's more responsive than a Phase 5 or Calibrated. Put it somewhere in between a board with sharp rails and fins a bit forward and say a skimboard with a single fin towards the tail.

Judy, who is very light, doesn't like the board because she can't ride far enough back on it...she ends up in a wakeboard stance with her trailing leg bent. So...folks in the 100 pound range probably won't care for that board. More importantly, it doesn't have the same fore and aft responsiveness of a top-of-the-line surfboard - say like a Shredd Stixx. If you want to stall a SS, you lean back and it stops, the Comp X will slow down but it really requires some effort, speeding up is the same thing. Lean into the Shread Stixx and it's off to the races, the Comp X is more gradual, but it's terminal velocity is VERY fast.

Where I think you'll find the biggest difference over a skimboard is with the top speed. You'll be able to push your boat faster, which will give you a longer pocket and the Comp X will then allow you to really carve the face.

Now you won't be throwing shuv's with it and if you and the kids like the feel of the skimmers without a fin, this ride is significantly different - it will track straight and it requires some effort to top and bottom turn.

To directly answer your question: Significantly different than a skimboard? Yes indeed, it'll feel more like a surfboard and it will be considerable faster than the skimboards you've ridden, is my guess.

Also, I think it makes a good beginner board if you've got any folks that haven't wakesurfed before, but might have some surfing background.

Mike is still primarily a surfboard shaper, so don't forget to make sure that you get fins with it 3.25 sb1's are loose, 4.00's will cause it to track straighter.

Keep me posted on what you decide to do.

we have an assortment of boards, skim, surf, and skate even some old "skurfers" and a couple of early directional wakeboards without bindings that surf pretty darn good... ranging from 3ft to 9 ft long, so before I drop 3-4 hundred (or More) on another thing to ride behind the boat, I guess I'm hoping it's something different or unique.

I'm betting it's going to be hard to find a board that Brent's going to like better then his Slottie.

LOL now THAT is a quiver. If you're thinking a directional wakeboard surfs pretty darn well I'm sure you'd be impressed with the new generation of wakesurfers. Chris, do you ever get up this way? We are hosting the INT League wakesurfing contests 5/26, 6/9 and 8/5, maybe you can come up and enter one of those and try out some of the new sticks?

not any more, we spent much of the 80's and 90's exploring this vast state in search of what you guys call "butter" and we call "glass" in fact one year alone I think we counted 13 trips over the grapevine with boat! we now have a place and keep our boat down south and haven't had to tow it more than 20 ft. in six years... anyway I may try putting a fin on one of our skimboards just for fun

Sean , you should see the boys, including Brent on the Slottie behind our 12ft aluminum boat with an 8 horse outboard... they shred !!

back to the part where you wanted to know about the differences in the boards from ocean to lake, taking a board from the ocean and trying to use it in the lake is a bit problematic, for example, we had adam virs a pro surfer from ventura come out with us, and he could not ride his normal small wave board behing the boat which was a 5'11" but he could ride our 5'0" shoreline board because it was shaped for behind the boat. the rockers are different and the outline is different on wakesurf boards to acomadate for the different wave. its more of a standing wave than a wave in the ocean.

on the other hand, my buddy brought his 7'-10" wave riding vehicle to ride behind my boat. He could go all day on the small wave produced by a moomba outback with 1200 lbs of ballast.

He couldn't ride the smaller wakesurf boards.

I fell in love with the wave riding vehicle and am definetly considering using an ocean surf board as my daily rider. I could surf and play an acoustic guitar.

Hey Ed, or do this piggyback think like Jeff Page. I "borrowed" this picture from the Inland Surfer website:

http://www.inlandsurfer.com/album-2006.asp?page=6

Jeff
thanks for the response
looks like I am leaning towards the Broadcast
http://www.hyperlite.com/product?PID=9122#prod_title

I don't really want a skim style...don't see myself getting that fancy...yet

what do yall think of the 4'9" Broadcast?
I currently have a Landlock and want something a bit faster and move responsive

yea let me refaise, i agree that any board that is 7 foot or longer has so much volume that you can ride it in any thing especially behind the boat. i was refering to short boards on account of i believe that is the sort of surfing he is looking to do. as for your question cliff, if you arent looking to get into the skim style boards, i would vear away from the broadcast. that was one of the first boards that i ever rode and i wasn't a big fan. its much to skimmy for me. i would still recomend a placebo surf skate. they are fast, responsive, and you can do all the tricks you are mentioned earlier. remember tho that this is just my personal oppinion your gunna have to try different things out to figure out what it is you really want.

thanks Johnny
tried to find some reviews on the surf skate, but had no luck
do you know of a link?

I may have missed something, but I don't see "all the tricks you are [sic] mentioned earlier" that Johnny states in his reply. So, I am going to ask that - what sort of tricks would you like to do Cliff? Also, give us some background on your weight and the wake you'll be riding (small, medium or large). Then it would be good to know what is important to you in the board: price? Storage in a standard rack? Custom Graphics? Without this sort of info, any recommendation is just going to be someone's personal preference.

hey Jeff
nope...I didn't mention tricks
all I can do now is ride the wake
I weigh 180
am waiting on my '07 Malibu VLX and am told to ride with stock ballast plus a 700 lb sac in the locker

I also have 400lbs worth of pop bags
....the wakeworld boat puts 6 of these in the bow (I think)
normally will ride with hardly any crew...the driver, 120lbs worth of 2 kids, maybe 100lbs of dog and sometimes 1 or 2 more adults

I do have both types of racks, wake and surf
price isn't a big deal
and I love coloful boards...custom grafics

as for tricks....donno
would love to be able to ride up and down the face of the wake
and maybe catch some air,my feet will hopefully never leave the board...I'll save the old knees for the wakeboard
:-)
hope that helps you to help me
thanks

oh ya sorry i thought i read somewhere that you wanted to learn surface 3's airs and what not. i guess i was mistaken. umm as for a link on reviews for the surf skate i dont know of any im just basing everything off of my personal experiences.

that's ok Johnny
thanks for the input

Ok Cliff, that gives us more info. Aerial tricks are fairly hard, especially after you cross over the 40 year mark. However, the carving can be handled by a number of boards. For custom airbrushing, the Walker Project is hand down the undisputed best. This gives an example - it doesn't show the barbed wire or ghosted skulls very well, but...if you can think it up, Mike can airbrush it.

Everything that Johnny says about the Placebo Sleigh model is true, plus they have some nice graphics, although not custom and IMO they're a bit pricey at $550.

If you can wait for the Walker Project to shape you one, a 4'9" Fast 50 would give you the carving ability that you want, but allow yourself 4-6 weeks to have it in your hands, with custom paint and traction, it will cost you around $500-525.

Those two boards would meet all your criteria. If you want some additional options, the Inland Yellow is a responsive board and Mark Sher can generate substantial air with it. The Shred Stixx Piranha is also a responsive board, capable of decent air.

Neither of these last two have custom graphics.

thanks Jeff
great info
I guess I have some things to think about
it would be great to get a Walker Project board...but that means 6 more weeks on my landlock
....might be worth it....

thanks

Isn't the fast 50 rated for up to 280lbs? definitely not the ideal board for someone weighing 180.

In it's largest size it is rated to 280 but it is a custom board and will be sized according to rider weight and ability.

well IMO that shape is not right for someone that light. There's no need for that type of tail/ profile until riders start hitting the mid-200s and even then it's still compromising performance.

(Message edited by caskimmer on May 14, 2007)

I am right at 180 pounds, so Cliff and I are the same weight. This is me on the podium at the Tulloch event, where I won the Masters on that shape. Jeff Page of Inland Surfer took second but had to catch an early flight so wasn't available for the awards presentation. Personally I like this shape, see below.

...but my Dad wasn't there either. (I don't see many 60 year olds catching air)

I'm not going to argue that the Fast 50 is the best shape ever, but I like it for the basic purposes that Cliff is talking about. He wants a more responsive board, and I think that Mark Sher described the shape well when he said "it's a fun board". There are a TON of boards that are better, faster, more agile, but for general surfing with some additional responsiveness and the ability to have custom graphics ordered, I think that board fits the bill well. The shape also lends itself well to the type of rider that Cliff is describing himself as - he wants to carve up and down the face The Fast 50 is smooth and effortless and is forgiving enough to allow us 40+ folks to appear to surf well Couple that with Cliff's desire for custom graphics and I think it meets his needs, well.

I agree with Sean that there are many boards available that perform better, but I didn't read that as part of what Cliff was asking for.

Oh Sean, I didn't intimate that I was a better rider than your father. I'm sure there are literally thousands of folks that are better than I am. It's easy to criticize, sir. if you have a recommendation for Cliff, shouldn't you make it? You have many years of experience in riding and design, and you, of course, are part of the Walzer design. I am sure that Cliff and others could benefit from your input.

It all depends on how far Cliff thinks he's realistically going to advance on the board. If he's looking for a board that's going to carve well yet be a stable ride then I agree with your recommendation but the desire for air is where I differ. While airs are certainly possible, that profile is less then ideal and takes more effort then needed to get off the wake.

As far as my own personal preference of course I really like the Walzer shape (since it's designed to reflect my riding style) but if I was riding a Poly/EPS core board it would be the Placebo. I'm also intrigued by Shredd Stixx's design philosophy and wouldn't mind spending some time playing around on one.

Sean,
check your mail.
i want to come pick up the board but have no way of getting a hold of you.
Thansk
erik

done

can't we all just get along....ha! :-)

I really appreciate the input

perhaps I am more confused now than ever

just to let yall know, I will be 43 this summer, but am in outstanding shape

I hope to throw (successfully) my first invert on the wakeboard this season

and...I do a tremendous amount of core excercises 4 or 5 times a week
..........it's just hard to see, 'cause I love Oreos :-)

I am always open to new challenges, and get bored easily!
if whatever board I get "pushes" my skills somewhat....I just might find myself trying stuff that currently I haven't considered trying

it would be nice to demo some, but I don't think that Waterski America here in Dallas has the selection or the access to these custom built boards
if there are any surfers with the above mentioned boards in my area...I would be glad to organize a group surf on my new 'Bu...when it comes in

thanks alot.everyone

Ok, I see your concern now. I obviously wasn't clear with my statement above:

"Aerial tricks are fairly hard, especially after you cross over the 40 year mark. However, the carving can be handled by a number of boards."

So Cliff, you hear Sean's concern if your primary focus is boosting air. When I read your concern about your knees, I pretty much assumed that you'd pass on aerials.

The folks at WakeOutlaw.com, I hear, can do demos and are planning some gatherings for just such a purpose. You might give KenW a shout.

Sean and I are getting along - it's just the way we do it. I know I have great regard for Sean's skills.

just harrassing yall about the "friendly discussion"

my knees are strong....for now
I only mentioned that 'cause...I have tried the wake skate
if there was ever anything that seemed to be risky on the knees and ankles...I felt like that was it

I was kinda categorizing the shuv-it moves along the same lines
....but I have been wrong before...ask the wife!

sorry to steer you guys wrong

it just goes to show that I really don't know much about it

....just that I am bored/board on the landlock

thanks again

Sean Sneak into Seans Room and snap a pic of my board please!!!

Its the green one he is shipping tomorrow!

I'm not trying to argue. I was responding to Cliff's statement after you asked for my input and not making a recommendation primarily for air.
"as for tricks....donno
would love to be able to ride up and down the face of the wake
and maybe catch some air,my feet will hopefully never leave the board...I'll save the old knees for the wakeboard "

As for the knees, I have a blownout left knee and have yet to feel the slightest strain doing airs wakesurfing (I was under the assumption he was talking about shuv-its)

as for arials, i would recomend getting a board that you can put some deaper fins in, preferably a thruster setup, with 3 fins. having the trailing fin may hinder your surface 3's but it gives you more drive when pumping or carving and it increases stability when doing airs. doing airs are extreemly easy when you learn how to do them. all it is is getting speed enough to go off the lip and take weight off the board. landing is the hard part, but having the deeper fins with the trailer really helps.

hey guys
I haven't forgotten yall
thanks for the emails
I get the boat on Saturday....see profile pic....the breakin period is gunna seem like forever!

I am renting a 4'9" broadcast for the Memorial Day
weekend

I know it isn't as nice of a board as what yall are talking about,but it is one that I can get my hands on without buying it...for now...

at least I will know what life is like on something other than the Landlock

I'm sure it will wet the whistle for a nicer board

thanks
again......and I'll give yall calls after the holiday!