Need info about ballast system for 01Nautique

I'm in need of detailed information about how to add a reversable pump and all the hardware associated with it to fill and drain 3 ballast tanks. Can anyone help a brother out.??

I'm doing the same thing right now to my 98 Nautique supersport and I've spent hours researching what to do and where to put it. I went back and forth on many important issues such as pumps, relays, switches, plumbing and water source. What follows is lengthy, but may save you some time.

DISCLAIMER: I am just now about to DO the install.
What follows is only MY perspective on what others (James M., Trace, Dane, etc) have done and talked about. I will say that there are those who think it we're all 'nucking futs' and into overkill, but I want a bulletproof system that I won't have to 'nuck' with.

Things to consider: Source of ballast, pumps, switches, relays (if necessary), plumbing (hoses,thru hulls, connections,etc) and vents(if necessary).

To start with, consider the ballast source. Many are just "T"ing off the engine intake. But you (and I) will be running three pumps which will pull quite a bit of water. I tested one Simer Blue Water, raised above the source 1.5 ft, and emptied a 10 gallon container in 1.5 minutes (6.67 GPM). If three are running simultaneously, that's 20 GPM! I wanted to avoid holes by "T"ing off, but I was very worried and called Correct Craft Corp. They connected me with Brice at WestCoast Correct Craft (something like that). He does the installs for factory ballast systems as well as Perfect Pass, etc. He told me that the I'd be playing with fire robbing from the engine coolant system (and gave me lots of sound reasons). He recommended one thru hull per pump (better performance and smaller hole) I was worried about making a hole (or holes) in the hull, but he said "don't worry". Just make sure the hole is placed in such a way to not disturb the water going to the Perfect Pass System (if you have it). The holes can be placed very close to each other without hurting the integrity of the hull. He also suggested metal scoop type thru hulls (he likes them better for stability) and metal emergency shut off valves (don't go cheap on an expensive boat) I still may use the mushroom type (metal), but not sure yet. Brice also gave me the name of the sealant they use on factory installs and was incredibly nice considering the time out of his day to answer my 'dumb' questions.

BTW - If you're a salt-water boarder, the metals for thru hull and shut-off valves need to be the same or connected by non-conductive joints.

Next to consider - Pumps
Overall, most posts are recommending the reversible pumps like Jabsco Water Puppys or Simer Blue Waters. They are heavy duty, self-priming, positive displacement (negligible flow when not in use) have great flow, and only one pump is necessary per circuit. They fill fast and suck the sack dry (believe me!) The cost is reasonable for the Simers, but the Jabscos have longer rated lifespans and run dry protection.

Some people use aerator pumps which are cheaper, but then:
1) You will need two pumps per circuit (and more plumbing)

2) You will have to devise a way to prime the circuit (location of pumps often handle this)

3) You may have to deal with valves (to control flow when not in use)

Next consideration: Switches and relays

For reversible pumps, you've got to reverse the polarity of the wires to the pump. This has been done in a variety of ways. Some just use heavy duty (20 amp) DPDT swithes with an ingenious wiring scheme (simplest way). This will require heavy guage wire from the battery to each switch and from each switch to the pumps (and the spikes may destroy the switch someday).

The pumps do sometimes pull more than 20 amps (spike)on startup (pumps come w/ 20 amp fuses, so replace w/25 amp). That fact coupled with the long wiring runs made me decide to use automotive relays. They're inexpensive and shorten the heavy guage wire runs significantly, although the best(IMO) wiring scheme posted used (3) SPDT relays per pump. (You can also purchase inexpensive wiring harnesses for them, but not necessary.) This system has been used by quite a few people who are very happy with it.

Each set of relays will need to be actuated with one SPDT (on-off-on) switch which can be purchase for as little as $2.50 each at an auto parts store. I found some lighted switches (to remind me a pump is on) for only $8 each so that's what I'll be using. **Nominal guage wire is required to actuate the relay**

Plumbing: There are some ingenious systems out there with quick connects (good when taking sacks out) and internal perforated hoses (used to suck all water from bag without sucking bag first). For now, I'm going to stick with the simplest method of hose from source to pump and from pump to bag with the internal perforated hose. The connections are easy (variety of ways which have been posted) and cheap.


As far as vents, I'll install them for peace of mind. They're actually the easiest problem. The holes are above the water line so plastic thru hulls will work fine. James has been pretty informative in this matter and suggests no more than a 1 ft rise from sack (or tank) to the vent hole.

If you want the specifics on what I purchased, or am about to purchase, just let me know. I will post pics and the exact procedures used when my system actually works.


Good Luck


(Message edited by oldboarder on May 29, 2003)

WOW Ray, keep it coming! I am about to do the exact same thing so any info, pics or advice would be more than welcome. I would love to hear how your system performs when your done. Good luck!

Even though I have a older Malibu, the idea is the same. I used two Simer pumps for my side sacks. The picture is of the install I did.

More pics

Doug,

I've seen those pics and you are 'nucking futs!' I hope mine looks at least half as sano as yours. Awesome job. Where do the bags go? Where did you get the little black boxes?

Duh, Side sacs. Got it.

Jeff,
Take it to your dealer and let them do it. That way if something is screwed up, it is there fault and not yours. Plus they can do it in probably half the time it will take you.

Doesn't that take the fun out of it? The only thing to worry about is proper installation of the thru hulls. I always take a lot of time to make sure it's done right, so I'm not worried. I built the whole drive train in a 76 Ford 8 years ago. It still runs great and pulls my fifth wheel and my boat (one at a time.) It's up to Jeff to know his limitations, but there is a sense of satisfaction after doing it yourself (and of course it's cheaper.) The big thing: TAKE YOUR TIME!!!

(Message edited by oldboarder on May 29, 2003)

Jeff,

There are a whole bunch of people that have done it themselves (some very extreme) and have posted their results. Not one that I've seen has said "I wish I had the dealer do it instead"

Something to think about

(Message edited by oldboarder on May 29, 2003)

Chase, Ray, and Jeff, Before you complete the system consider the Rival Ballast System called the DownLoad. We are using aerator pumps to supply the system because we feel that high volume low pressure is better. We are using 1.5" thru hull supply to a chamber holding 3,4 or 5 pumps. The chamber is isolated by an electric valve to open and close the water supply. We use check valves in all of the supply lines to keep the bags from leaking back into each other. We are also venting each bag for fast and complete filling. The electrical draw on your system is far less with aerator pumps also. A turn key cost for a 3 bag system is $1,195.00. That includes pumps, hose, all thru hulls, bags, chamber, electric valve. Mike Porter just installed a 1,600 lb system on a Tige 22V and he is saying that it fills in approx. 6 min. He posts on WW and he could talk to you about install times and performance of the system. If you want more details you can email me at terry@tigeaz.com.

Turnkey would be awesome. It takes the research work out of the Picture. Another good turnkey system is Make-A-Wake (but I think they only supply the pumping and switching systems.) Either way, you still have to install it yourself . The electrical draw is an issue, but the alternator should handle it if it's a late model boat. If not, alternator shops can easily beef up your alternator. The 6 min fill time is impressive (I'm anticipating 10 min for about the same weight). The $1200 price tag is a butt kicker though. That's a good part of why I'm doing it myself. Also, I was going to use a 1.5" thru hull, but the CC guy suggested one hole per pump instead. I've already got the bags, which would be about a $350 investment.

This is what has been purchased or what will be:
3 pumps: $201 + $0 shpg
9 relays + 9 wiring harnesses $30 + $10 shpg
3 on-off-on lighted switches $24 + shpg
Heavy guage wiring and Light guage wiring - $30 ? (autoparts store)
3 mushroom type 3/4" thru hulls $27 + shpg
2 tubes of sealant $16 +shpg
Brass shutoff valves $24 (hardware store, may need nonconductor inbetween mushroom and valve)
Hoses - should be around $30?(hardware store)
Hose barbs, Hose clamps, assorted little things $30 ? (hardware store)

Add a little here or there, If you have to purchase new bags, the system will run about $800. If you've already got the bags, about $450. To me, that's doable

Has anyone used the simer pumps with a scooper-type thru hull fitting? Can you drain effectively when underway? The pump would be fighting against the water being scooped into the intake. Any thoughts?

I did that on the water intake from the engine and yes it will drain in that case because the engine picks up the water.

I think shawn was asking about a thru hull other than the engine intake. I don't know the answer, but I'll relay some info.

Brice at CC suggested using the scoop type (that's what he uses), so I would imagine it will pump out underway. He suggested the scoop type more for the extra stability (two extra screws) than for scoop effect. In fact, he said that the forward pump would sometimes cause enough pressure (when under way) to blow hoses, so turn it around. That would defeat the purpose of the scoop, I would think. Again, just relaying info.

I have a scupper intake feeding 3 self priming pumps... it does slow down a bit but yes you can empty while moving.

I bought a system from make-a-wake, and after really using it for the first time over the Memorial Day weekend I would have to say I definatly made the right choice!! No hassles just "Plug-N-Play". Bill was extremely helpful both before and after the purchase. I only wished that I had just decided to go with Make-a-Wake to start with instead of contemplating, and researching for a month(I tend to over think things.) It would have been in and been used months ago. If you have any questions feel free.

I will also say that Bill is extremely helpful and Make-a-Wake looked like a great product with high quality parts. They take the guess work out. I just wanted something like their 3 pump system, and the only way I afford it was to do it myself. I do think they use slightly better pumps than I can afford. Bill knew that I was going to try to build my own and still sent wiring diagrams. I'd recommend them if you don't want the hassle.

I bought the original system, with a single pump, and don't have to worry about the amperage draw, and it is plenty fast(the fastest single pump system they have). It is already seperated into four sections, that can be adjusted on the fly, as we did this several times to adjust the wake while driving when we went out over Memorial Day weekend. I had originally wanted to go with the three pump system, but after thinking about all those amps surging at once, decided against it, besides the original they say is their most popular by far, and as I said before is plenty fast.