Fresh Water Cooling Upgrade??

I am purchasing an MB Sports boat. The boat will be used in salt water about 50% of the time. Is it worth adding fresh water cooling - for a cost of ~$1,500? Or, is it better to just add a flush kit and flush with fresh water or Salt-Away? $1,500 buys a lot of Salt-Away. Note that the boat also has a heater.

I run in saltwater 100% of the time. I've had lots of boats and never bothered with fresh water cooling. You $1500 would be better spent on gas, wd40 and saltaway.

Just make sure you flush after every use and you'll be fine.

I disagree with Jay. A closed system would be money well spent. Go down to your local marine shop and ask them if you can take a look at the water jackets on the block, manifolds and risers of a saltwater engine.

Iron is very pores (sp) and I don't care how well you flush it your not going to get all the salt out.

I run in salt 100%, i have a closed cooling system and I flush after every use.I have a heater as well...all is good...

Your not going to get all the salt out but you will slow down the rate of corrosion loads.

The manifolds/risers will rust out just as quick whether raw water or fresh cooling as the used water from the heat exchanger will pass through them. You'd typically get 6-8 years from them if you flush after each use.

As for the block we have a 25 year old MC down here which has always been used in the salt and there is no issues with the block rusting out on that. OK its done a few sets of manifolds but the rest is good.

The heater on the boat will work better on a fresh cooled system though as it'll enable the engine to run a hotter thermostat.

So it looks like the opinions are split. In talking to two boat dealers, prior to my purchase, one told me to upgrade to a galvanized trailer and skip the fresh water cooling while the other said go with the fresh water cooling and skip the galvanized trailer (unless the boat is going to be stored near the ocean - it's the salt air not the salt water that is the problem). Funny how even the experts have differing views.

Your trailer will only last a couple of years if you do not get a galvanized one. I've seen it happen many times. I ride a lot in salt water. If I were you I would get both upgrades.

As far as the trailer goes the salt water is a problem as is salt air....trust me on that one. You will get well over a couple years with a non galvanized trailer as long as you give it a good rinse immediately after taking it out of the salt water. Personally I would sooner have a non galvy trailer in salt than having salt flowing through my engine, this is also my current situation.
As already stated both upgrades is the best recomendation.

You can rinse your trailer all day all night and it will rust from the inside out if you have a painted tube trailer.

If you are going to run in salt I would get the galvy trailer for sure and if not get a trailer made of channel.

It doesn't matter how much WD40 you put on your trailer and brakes the salt water will do damage within a year and a half.

The brakes will fail much faster too, after rinsing you should drive around the block and let the brakes push out any water that gets between the rotor and calipers.

I would also go with the closed cooling system, salt water still has to go thru the riser but having to change the risers is much cheaper than replacing major parts that will be damaged from salt water intake.

I was a salt guy for 3 years and never blinked an eye at putting my old boat in saltwater. It's the damage that you CAN'T see that will sneak up on you.

Check these old links out for some other ideas:

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/211895.html?1108704135

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/218232.html?1113332883

Actually I've decided that its not worth the hassle to champion saltwater riding anymore.

I'm going to join the freshwater scare mongers and tell you now that after one dip in saltwater and putting the boat away the next time you come to use it all that will be left is the trailer tyres and the hull. Everything else will have corroded away.



(Message edited by jayc on March 01, 2006)

Hey Gramps - Just looked at your profile. Any chance I just saw you at San V with a new X Star? Will that thing ever see the salt? What about when San V shuts down? I'm sure I'm not the only one in San Diego getting ready for the salt.

What Gramps said. I have a friend that bought a supra ssv and I told him to get a galvanized trlr as he would be using his boat in brackish water. His trlr is rusting from the inside out. Get the closed cooling too if you plan on keeping the boat for a long time, otherwise passs it on to who ever you sell it to in 5 years and save the 1500.

Aaron,
If you plan to run in salt at all...Get both the Fresh water cooling and the galvanized trailer. I speak from nearly 20 years experience of boating exclusively in salt water.
Fresh water cooling will, save the innards of the motor block, water pump, hoses, brackets and similar items.
Fresh water cooling will, increase the resale value of the boat.
Fresh water cooling will, reduces the winter and spring maintenance.
Fresh water cooling will, give you additional piece of mind, which is priceless.

The galvanized trailer will last far longer then the comparable painter trailer, regardless of salt or fresh water. The biggest problem with salt water though is the first 5 min's the trailer is pulled. What the water dries and the salt residue clings to the trailer, that's when the biggest damange is done and begins. The more protection you have, the happier you will be, trust me.

As an example about the trailer...
In 1986 my dad bought an 1985 Starcraft 16ft fiberglass boat with a galvanized trailer and a Evinrude 90hp Outboard for about $6000.

He sold it in 1994 for $2500. We did regular maintenance on the motor, painted the hull every season, and maintenanced the trailer every year.

He had the bearings packed twice a season, and the trailer used pretty frequently for back then.

He had the following items replaced on the trailer in the 9 years he owned it...
2 x Sets of lights and wiring
3 x bearings
1 x springs
1 Set Tires

Probably about spent about $1000 over those nine years in the maintenance and replacement parts...but the trailer looked great and was still original. Testament to the galvanizing.

That's my $.02!

I think it is funny how people freak out about saltwater. The big inboard fishing boats that never leave the water in south Florida are in saltwater. They have inboard engines just like ski/wakeboard boats, just a little bigger. You can find boats that are almost 40 years old, and multiple rebuilds on the same blocks. They are not completley destroyed. Like people think that a ski boat will be.No doubt saltwater is nasty your carpet will get crusty, and it sticks to you when you dry, but it will not destroy and engine like everyone says it will.

Salt does affect boats in several ways. The main problem is that salt (like any substance in solution) will migrate from an area of high concentration to low concentration. So, by washing thoroughly with fresh water, it is possible to remove the vast majority of salt. However.....

When you try to wash salt water away, all you do is increasingly dilute it. It's almost impossible to remove the last vestiges of salt. Salt is hygroscopic (attracts moisture) so even with the smallest of residues, the material in which the salt is trapped stays damp. And what do you need for rust and corrosion (and most but not all forms of decay) to take place? Air (oxygen) and water. So, the presence of salt more or less guarantees the presence of water. So, over time, steel and alloy parts slowly corrode - especially where two different metals meet and an electrolytic cell is set up.

And it's not just metals that decay, stitching rots too so seats tend to fall apart over time. The vinyl is OK, just the bits that holds it all together decays.

Micro pores exist in cast iron, of which most engine blocks and all manifolds are made of. Cast iron is crystalline and hence contains lots of microscopic cracks and pores into which water (and the salt dissolved therein) penetrates.

When the insides walls of these cracks and pores corrode (as they inevitably do), the rust that forms is larger than the original metal so it begins to crack the surrounding part. The strength of the iron keeps everything in place to start with but as the effect it builds up, the pressure takes its toll and flakes of metal fall off and corrosion starts to become visible big time.

Having said all the above, the vast majority of boats are used in salt water and go on for years quite happily. However, their cosmetic and physical state after a year or two will always be far inferior to their fresh water-only cousins of the same age. And the gap gets bigger over time.

If you want to witness the increased effect of salt on iron/steel compared to fresh water, get two pieces of bare mild steel and some wet and dry paper. Abrade one with the wet and dry lubricated by tap water only. Abrade the other part in water into which you have added a generous squirt of washing up liquid. Let them both dry naturally and compare the finish. Washing liquids leave salt residues (that's why you shouldn't use them to wash your car) and this will be apparent on the surface you washed with the washing-up liquid.

And as stated earlier, rust is larger than the original metal from which it is made so internal block corrosion can lead to blocked water ways and hence overheating.

If you have no choice but to use your boat in salt water, just accept that you will incur more maintenance and your boat will deteriorate faster than if used in fresh water alone. Engine life will be shortened - let's say you'll get 10 years rather than 15 out of it. It won't wear out faster (pistons etc) but the manifolds and block will rot from the inside out. The externals will also rust in any area not really well protected with paint.

P.S. You can also add a closed cooling system to your engine (assuming it's an inboard) but typically these only protect the block. Raw water is still used to cool the manifolds. Replacing these after a while is relatively inexpensive and easy. It doesn't need a full engine replacement.

Quite obviously, closed cooling won't protect the upholstery and the rest of the boat!

We run salt water much of the time so we went with the galvanized trailer and the fresh water cooling. We even looked at the new salt water series from MC, but they were 60k plus which was a little out of our range. The cool thing with the MC is that there is no salt water going through the engine/manifolds, etc. It is completely closed which would be the best alternative, but for the price difference it wasn't worth it for us.

That was my exact thinking. I ski more than I board so I was looking into an MC X-7 or 197 set up for the salt. In the end, I thought it was wiser to spend half the amount on a one year old MB 190 Plus and live with the consequences. Now I just need to decide how much to invest in preventative maintenance. It came with a painted tube trailer so I will likely keep that and get a few years out of it - then upgrade to galvinized.