Saftey Vent/Rant

As I sit here on a reconstructed ACL, still 2-3 months from being able to ride again... I can't help but chuckle at all the "extreme" safety conscious threads flying around. I've been trying to figure this out.... Is it just that most of the keyboard jockeys out there happen to be the older more responsible crowd? Or am I actually in the minority by thinking that it is completely unnecessary to wear a helmet behind the boat, to have a quick disconnect for the rope so my arm doesn't get caught, to wear gloves so my hands don't get torn up, or to require people on the boat to wear a CGA? Don't get me wrong, stacking hard and getting your bell rung sucks... and actually getting injured is awful... but geez.

Maybe the frustration of not being able to ride is setting in and I'm out of line, but I gotta know...

Who rides a comp vest with no helmet or gloves?

I do

I am the guy with the release. I normally do not wear a helmet, unless hitting a ramp, kicker, or rails; I wear a comp vest; I do not wear gloves for board sports (only slalom). I do, however, use the release every time since I am working on spins.

Mixed bag response.

I ride mostly cable so I wear a helmet for rails and a CGA because it's required. I do agree with you though that helmets aren't necessary behind a boat, and CGA vests are good for extra precautions but not necessary.

I dont wear a helmet behind the boat, I wear comp vests, don't use gloves or a quick release rope (never even heard of this), and I've never ridden with anyone who 'required' me to wear a CGA vest.

On the same note I have had concussions, probably dont float quite as well as I should in my vest, and have callouses on my hands.

To each his own, I respect other peoples opinions/choices on these matters and don't judge. Although if I ever were to ride w/someone who required a CGA I'd either have to borrow or not ride because all my vests are non-CGA. Totally legitimate - Their boat, their rules.

Fact is wakeboarding is a highly physical sport with some inherent risks regardless. It's all just personal choice. But I definitely wear a helmet on rails.

Alotta keyboard jockeys for sure. I am with you Luker!!!

Its really a state of mind and at what stage of life you are at......yes you are young and willing or dont care or dont have the forsight for the ramifications of any type of injuries. thats cool because we were all like that once. make no mistake though most every injury has future implications and some of us choose to minimize theses as much as possible. When I was your age I did a lot of not so smart stuff which at 44 I now know......I also now know that when I was in in my 20's I really didn't know as much as I thaught. I like to say.....i didn't know that i didn't know.

thats the fun of growing up......and it does pay to listen to people who have been around longer and experienced more........mostly you gain and get ahead of the curve.

I wear welding gloves and a football helmet. Can't be too safe out there

.......whats funny is all the younger guys eventually see the light.....its unavoidable

Luker,

I agree that is completely unnecessary to wear a helmet, or gloves, or use the quick release. But your flippant comments about those who do, IMO, has shown some immaturity on your part and lack of respect for those of us who have chosen to take an extra precaution to extend our riding into our 50s… hopefully.

You are not even 30 yet… when you are above 40, and see fewer and fewer years of good riding left, you might end up wanting to do anything you can to extend your riding as long as you can. Recovering from a year off for a 40 yr old is WAY more difficult than it is for a 25 yr. old. That is why I try to do as much as I can to avoid that situation.

I also wear a knee brace to protect my knee that has no cartilage left… is that being too conservative? Should I just suck up the pain and leave the brace in the car so I don’t look bad wearing it? Oh wait, since the pros wear braces, and since they are cool, I must also be cool if I wear one…. I wouldn’t want to wear something (like a helmet) the pros don’t wear in fear of not looking cool. Or maybe I should stop riding now so I can walk without a limp when I am 60? Or maybe… just maybe… the brace actually works, the helmet actually works, and I can hopefully not limp my way into by 60s.

So I wear a helmet and a knee brace, and sometimes I even rock and elbow brace when tendinitis flares up in my left arm. In your eyes I look like a fool and get laughed at by you. When I can go out and ride three 45minute sets a day, dropping spins and inverts all over the place, in front of guys 10-15 years younger than me, I think that is a hell of a lot of fun.

Without my helmet and brace, I would probably be sitting on the sidelines… or surfing.


-Uj

.....the summer is robbing me of one year of my life right now....the weather sucks.......these are just the kinds of thaughts one doesnt have at a younger age. So when I get injured its like....is this the day I have to hang it up (not a pretty picture).....one day we all have to stop.....but hopefully you can stop on your own terms and not one brought on by injury.

Michael has hit the nail on the head imo. My thoughts exactly.

In just about all these type threads, you can tell who the older posters are and who the younger ones are (without looking at their profile). I'm living this right now. I'm 45 and take safety issues at heart, while my teenage kids live by "if it's my time, it's my time". It's all a process of maturing.

However, I don't hate on people who have different opinions than I.

What do gloves have to do with safety? The last time I saw anyone using a quick disconnect was toe tricks on a trick ski. This thread's a snoozer. I wear what I want when I board.

"This thread's a snoozer." Thanks for posting John, feel free to go back to sleep.

WOW Some finally had the balls to say it! Props LUKER!!!!!!

....andy thats the concussions speaking there!......come to your senses

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcOZ6xFxJqg

Notice the name of the band.

In case nobody's noticed, the helmet debate is decidedly undecided. Except for hitting obstacles nobody has a case either way. GCA vests are required by law, so unless you are on a private lake the boat owner is risking a ticket when someone rides without one.

Pretty much boils down to another thread about vests. Not sure why it takes "balls" to start another one of those. Yep it worked, now I'm falling asleep.

Really the CGA thing just makes sense. Drowning due to getting knocked out just seems foolish. On top of that it's not worth the legal issues. They aren't bulky like they used to be, and it just seems to make sense. Not a fan of helmets, unless you have a history of head injuries, but if it makes you feel more comfortable I don't judge those who choose to wear one. Knee braces make sense, ecspecially as you get older.

This whole thing kind of reminds me of the saftey changes in bull riding when I was young and into it. Started wiht mouth pieces, then vests, then helmets. Each one was met wiht resistance, but as time went on they became more and more common.

no gloves, helmet, quick release, or any other saftey device.
but ALWAYS a CGA vest, my cga vest is so comfortable you can barley feel that your wearing it.
As far as im concerned, after i take a face plant, or a hard fall and im a little sore. im not going to want to be worried about staying afloat. and if i get knocked out, i want to be on top

Bummer to hear about your injury Luker. Good luck with the recovery

I agree with your sentiments (and applaud your courage to speak your opinion) although I prefer to just lay low on some of my beliefs rather than getting in a keyboard fight. Again, this place is relatively PC for the most part and anyone going against that is generally accosted by keyboard jockeys.

Here is a good example. My best friends little bro (who is 19, I am 27), doesnt wear a seatbelt when he drives. I gave him my opinion on how ridiculously stupid not belting up is...he still doesn't wear it and there is nothing I can do about it. The older generations get frustrated because they have a lot more experience and want to pass the education on to someone. The younger generations get frustrated because they want to find their own way and not get "told how to live their life". On the flipside I used to not wear a belt when I was his age too (not as regularly though). It took a friend getting ejected out of a car and dying to get me to belt up religiously. The older generations have watched friends die, get hurt, paralyzed, etc. Its an extremely painful experience that nobody would wish on anyone, that's why opinions are so strong about safety issues.

I will admit that I was really surprised to hear that people "wouldn't let me ride behind their boat unless I was wearing a USCG vest"...however I bet "in real life" they wouldn't put up quite a stink if I got on their boat with a non-uscg vest.

Now, I ride both USCG and Non-USCG...Again, I had the misfortune to ride with the Double Up crew less than TWO WEEKS after Kordell's Passing (RIP).

The big issue with someone riding behind without a CGA is liability. Someone dies behind your boat, while breaking the law, you are held liable

i wear a nut cup when i ride so i dont injure my balls

cga vest is recommended while participating in watersports but not required in the state of Mississippi. You can all come down to the dirty south and shred with me. I don't own any of that safety propaganda, i've got a wakesetter with 3000 lbs in it and the law enforcement round here is "back woods" to say the least. We're just now getting computers down here

i'm tryna come ride with you ryan...nothin like dip spittin backwoods law dogs to keep the peace..

i really couldn't care less whether someone wears a helmet or not, a cga vest or not (as long as they wear a vest, that's all i care about), what they wear while they ride is up to them. i just have an issue w/ those that try to make it mandatory to wear a helmet or cga vest, and those that ridicule those that wear helmets or cga vests.

come on. I'm down for anybody to come ride. I'm all about sharing the wake love and I don't care what kind of equipment you ride with as long as you're ridin

Can't we all just get along!!

Ryan... you should swing over this way and ride with us. You ain't far from Montgomery at all... we chew towbacka and shred daily jus like u

I don't mind if people ride with Comp vests. I wear a CGA vest, but that is personal preference. The trick release could be a bad thing. If somebody was working on a trick and you pulled the trick release and they wound up sticking it or riding it out for the first time, they would likely be pretty bummed. I know that a few times I was going to pull back on the throttle thinking somebody was going to get worked learning a trick and they wound up pulling it out.

no helmet, DEFFINITELY no gloves, and comp vest...the only way to ride behind a boat...although a few times ive taken a digger and wished i was wearing a helmet when i got back in the boat and couldnt figure out how to unzip my vest...0_o

"I agree with your sentiments (and applaud your courage to speak your opinion) although I prefer to just lay low on some of my beliefs rather than getting in a keyboard fight"

Courage is a pretty strong word for someone posting an opinion online.

My disappointment in Luker's opinion is that there might be newbies to the sport who'll read that helmets are not cool to wear and won't just based on that. For someone who is trying to "grow the AL wake scene" you sure are against alot of things that are a part of the sport whether you like them or not.

Safety is voluntary, except for my kids, when I am instructing, and when I run comps.

For the most part, safety is a personal decision. If you don't believe that, visit an Emergency Room Friday or Saturday night. It is filled with 13-25 year old males who made personal decisions. Most of the injuries I have seen have come from ropes or riding well beyond capabilities. Most of those, alcohol induced.

I am an old guy. Started riding in 1983 and I have yet to have an injury. I want to try to ride for another 26 years.

10 years ago it wasn't cool to wear a helmet while snowboarding. When Shaun White started sporting a lid at Park City 5 years ago, you bet all the kids followed suit, as well as copying his signature bandana over his face. Who cares what's cool, just do what you want and have confidence while you do it.

So Luker... have any of these comments changed how you feel about what others are doing?

Wakeboarding is a sport that young and old can participate in together as long as there is respect for what each group is about. It seems most of the OGs on here are on the same page. We have seen bad things happen to good people and take measures to prevent it from happening to us, and\or the people in our boats.

Getting laughed at for the gear I wear by your age group doesn't make me want to "share the wakeboarding love" as some people have suggested we all do.

-Uj

Speaking of sports and generational gaps...

I find it even funnier dealing with some of the older generations in ice hockey. For a lot of these guys who are trying to "live out the glory days" you would think each game was the Stanley Cup. They come in, play physical, slash, trip... and generally try their hardest to lay down a hit on you/often times chirping at you, talking B.S. etc. God forbid you lay them out and all of a sudden your the "Kid" with a target on his back for hitting an old guy. haha. The older generations have just as much at fault with this as the young generations.

What I am getting at here is that I see it all the time where the older guys are pushing just as hard or HARDER than the younger generations...leading them to injuries, hence the whole safety soapbox speech.

Also: why is it completely acceptable (and normal) for a father to sit on the sidelines and watch his kid completely demolish his body playing Football, Hockey, Lacross, Soccer, Rugby, etc. and not get all high and mighty about safety. Yet if his kid takes a beating on water all of a sudden there is an issue? Especially at the higher level where Steriods, playing with injuries, etc. are so prevalent!

You wanna play you gotta pay, that's just life.

cga is the law and if someone gets hurt behind your boat and they are not wearing one you are fugged.If you know what im saying.Your insurance company will wash their hands of you so quick it will make your head spin.Yeah im in the older group for what it matters.I just dont want to get sued for everything i own. its not much but its mine and i want to keep it that way.

M-Dizzle,

For me, I don't care what you do, wear what you want, etc, etc...but when I hear the younger generation is mocking us OGs (like Luker did in the helmet thread)I get defensive. I don't have safety soap box, but I do have one about respect.
-Uj

Uj- not really... I still think its mostly just you old farts that are hooked on this safety thing.

J/K... a little

I have always been a live and let live kinda guy so I really could give a poo what anyone else does... mainly because I'm going to do what I want regardless of what I'm told (especially on the internet). My guess is that while me and my boys are bagging on your helmet, you and your crew are sitting around talking about how much better and more "respected" our sport could become without arrogant d*ckheads like myself riding around in comp vests blaring our music. Truth is, skateboarding, surfing, and snowboarding were built on a foundation of rebellion and dissent... Honestly, we both need each other for the sport to grow, and most companies attempt to appeal to both of our demographics as shown by their varying product lines. I need you to buy a CGA vest so that company has the cheddar to go out and design me a comp vest, or vice versa. However, I still stand firm thinking that many riders are over doing it.

As far as the expanding the ALWake scene comment... part of the reason for the site is to get our style of wakeboarding exposed to the goonies and wallys. Its not my goal to appeal to the masses nor do I want to. I want to get dope local riders some exposure they deserve. We have our own ideas and thoughts on what wakeboarding is and should be, and we feel that the more people we can convert from the power turning, stretch rope riding, glove wearing crowd to our scene, the better.

Us older farts have been around long enough to see tragedies happen that could have been avoided. Older farts with family and kids don't take life for granted and want to protect their loved ones and themselves from tragedy. I know we can't build a bubble around our loved one, but we can dang sure use some common sense.

Luker, how would you feel if your best bud drowned before your eyes due to sinking to the bottom of the lake with a comp vest on? Would you say "if only he had been wearing a CGA vest" or "dang man, I guess it was his time to go?"

My guess is that you would say that it was his choice and he knew the risks. That my friend is a selfish thought because there are people who are left behind who are hurting. I wish you younger farts would take into account who you might be hurting by throwing all caution to the wind.

Man I wish I would of looked at this guys profile a while ago... 25 and from Alabama. It all amkes sense now...lol

no vest, helmet, or gloves. His mother is mad.

This is really not safe, what kind of a kid did I raise...

I dont think its not so much an age thing as it is a maturity thing... Unless 21 is now considered being old.

I dont wear a helmet, dont use gloves, dont use a trick release and I can understand why someone wouldnt wear a vest while hitting a rail in shallow water... it would be like wearing a parachute next to a set of stairs. I could care less about what others are doing or wearing

Now its a different story if you are riding behind my boat. You will be wearing a jacket (approved or not) and I will flag you down and will slowly slow the boat speed down if you place your arm through the handle. A good friend of mine accidentally slipped his arm through on a wake jump, and we had to take him to the emergency room for a broken arm... I have another friend that gets pissed off when I slow down while he sticks his arm through... funny thing is that I've seen this same friend fall while just riding and not doing anything fancy

"one day we all have to stop"
why?

There is actually a biologic basis for most of this discussion. It has to deal with the development of executive functioning throughout the cortex region which really isn't fully formed until the mid 20s and of course some people develop more or less. Executive functioning brings with it impulse control and is responsible for the ability to weigh actions in the now versus the future. I am simplyfing, but lower executive functioning would mean people live a lot more in the now. This explains all kinds of behaviors in the 15-25 age group; low savings rate, drug use, most likely to not purchase health insurance, engaging in dangerous, risky, or illegal behaviors.

So don't worry, if you make it to the mid 20s, most of you will have a better grip on risks and how they relate to future consequences. And yes us old farts were young too and made our share of poor judgements in the past.

"one day we all have to stop"

no real reason behind that other than.....you may have lost your motivation, feel you are to old, it just doesn't feel the way it used to, your buds dont ride anymore, your kids are out of the house, your brain cant take another concussion, your arthritis is just not making it worth it anymore, your wife took the boat in a divorce, your beer drinking and lifestyle choices have prematurely ended your life, an accident has rendered you useless, you just dont have the energy any more, you've become bored with it, cant jump or do an invert without worrying you'll break in half, cant risk a day off your job because of injury sustained from wakeboaring...have family to take care of bills to pay, you join all the rest of the 40+ year olds (peer pressure) who think your to old to board, your mother inlaw asks you to stop and think of your responsibilities, you find out you just cant hang around 20 year olds anymore, your wife asks you to quit because of the young girls on your boat (girlfriends of the young guys)if you make it through all of those there is one left and you wont get past that one. I am sure there are a few more so feel free to add any!

....so enjoy wakeboarding and your youth its a glorius time!!!

(Message edited by absoluteboarder on July 30, 2009)

"My guess is that you would say that it was his choice and he knew the risks."

Those would be my sentiments exactly.

"Man I wish I would of looked at this guys profile a while ago... 25 and from Alabama. It all amkes sense now...lol"

Super helpful comment Sparky - I guess since you're from Cali you must be gay or a stoner surfer. Assumptions are for a**holes. All you know about AL is what you've stereotyped us to be because of the select few down here that are dumb, racist, idiots. Keep up the good work.

this thread is priceless...

Luker, we were all there once... young, dumb and full of ... lol

Another super helpful post.

ahem....back to topic on hand ...we all know wakeboarding is a

"when you get injured, not if you get injured sport"


.......so all we are doing is some calculated...risk management.

"part of the reason for the site is to get our style of wakeboarding exposed to the goonies and wallys. Its not my goal to appeal to the masses nor do I want to."

Pretty contradictory statement. Why not get your style of wakeboarding promoted by innovative riding like Shredtown crew seems to be doing. All I've seen so far are negative opinions on these forums.

"Another super helpful post". Kinda like your post of helmets are worthless behind the boat and are only for rails???

lotta arrogance on this thread, I personally dont see the hang up on helmets, cga vests or injury preventment. Just wondering why it bothers you so much?

I mean, I wear comp vest, no gloves, but I wear a helmet mainly coz I ride cable. I didnt used to wear a helmet behind boat but I will now after I blew my ear drum on a kgb because of riding with no helmet with ear flaps.

I dont know, Im not an "old fart" but neither am I one of the young guns anymore. I push myself harder than ever but Im still gonna take whatever sensible precautions I can.

Deriding other riders for their personal opinions on safety and what they feel they need to do to enjoy wakeboarding just seems.. I dunno, useless? Whats the point man. Anyways let other people ride how they wanna ride, its all good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcOZ6xFxJqg

Notice the name of the band.


Thanks A-dub, you have made me want a midget again.

I am not all about safety, I just think it's dumb not to wear a life jacket (that actually does anything) when riding.

One part of this that has not been mentioned, the insurance part of it....

Skydiving, hang-gliding, motorcycle racing, automobile racing, hydrofoil racing, boxing, MMA, military service, and a few others are treated differently by insurance companies due to the injury rates. I would rather our sport stay safer and keep it under the radar from an insurance perspective.

I have no desire to get into anybody's riding or lifestyle. If a bit of prevention and common sense can help the sport along, why not talk about it? Isn't the goal to ride another day?

I don't expect to make any friends with this post, but:
How is the average "WakeWorlder" a 40-something (or in John's case, asleep) old fart with safety issues??
Some of you need to be put out of your misery!

if your soo fed up with the safety issues people post on wakeworld then dont read them...simple!! as for this piece of sh*t, leave it to them if they wanna wear cga vests a helmet or even gloves and a knee brace (oh sorry they're cool cos pro's wear them) let them personally i dont wear any of them i have a non cga vest and enjoy my time on the water but i know people who do wear that stuff and thats still cool (if your not an over egotistical judgemental arseh*le) just enjoy yur time on the water and carry that enjoyment over to the other people riding at the end of the day everyone here loves the sport and wants to get out more. so who cares what they're wearing to make themselves feel more comfortable!
As for this only now being said... maybe some people need to read the archive threads (if its not too uncool) and you'll see that all this crap has been said before and will be said again in a months time!

After reading this shat thread I'm astounded as to how much time all of you have waisted (young & old) on thinking up elaborate excuses on how to make the world safe or "stickin it to the man".
I started wakeboarding because of the friendship and enjoyment along with the hype of landing new tricks and watching others progress and enjoy the them selves. Not to have some knob tell me or tell others that "oh you cant hit that weir gap you will bust your face open!!" "oo no you cant grab the board there that's not cool"

I say F&$k YOU! and get over it...

^? These posts are just getting weird. Lets bury this thread.