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Old     (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       12-21-2010, 8:17 PM Reply   
I have already done some searching on this topic, but it seemed none came from threads within the last couple of years and so none mentioned the Master Craft CSX for example.

It seemed that I came across consistent mention of Centurion (especially the Avalanche), Tige, and Sanger among inboards that handle chop well. any others, or even specific models within a brand. I came across some old threads mentioning the Mastercraft X35 too

I was trying to get an idea of general features of boats that could help determine the brands and models that would handle best. stuff like "deep v's," Boat size (bigger is better), trim functions, etc.
could the measurement of "draft" be accurately used to determine boats that handle chop? like, the more draft the better the handling? what other traits could be looked at without actually taking a boat on a test drive?

Last edited by wakerider111; 12-21-2010 at 8:21 PM.
Old     (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       12-21-2010, 8:39 PM Reply   
The amount of "V" at the back of the transom is a major factor for sure. Keel design and chine design play their part as well. Also, Sangers' use what is called a "delta pad". It is the flat triangular pad at the bottom rear of the boat pointing forward. It helps stabilize the hull with a suction effect when the hull is on plane.
Old     (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       12-21-2010, 9:11 PM Reply   
The draft is related to how deep the V is, or how many different levels there are on the hull. A flat bottom boat puts a lot of boat in the water to displace its weight and a sailboat has a long narrow keel that does not displace of its weight so the draft is high. Deep V's just have a deeper draft but it's not the draft that makes the difference.
A longer boat is better in rough water because its relative size, to the waves, is larger. Wider hinders, rather than helps the rough water ride.
The ability to trim the hull attitude, nose up or down, is very important. Running into the waves you put the nose down to keep the ride smoother and avoid bouncing. Running with the waves you put the bow up to stop your hull from diving into the wave as it catches up.
Freeboard is helpful if you lose power but makes no difference when you are running. Sangers have relatively low freeboard but I'd take one out in a storm happily ahead of most boats with higher freeboard.
How solid the boat is built is very important. Dampened strong construction makes the ride more pleasant.
Good luck. Just test drive them.
Old     (alans)      Join Date: Aug 2005       12-22-2010, 5:20 AM Reply   
I'll 2nd Art's statement.
Old     (loudontn)      Join Date: Feb 2005       12-22-2010, 5:34 AM Reply   
+1 to all of the above, some good insight. It's a cliche and kind of the automatic response on this forum but it's true: go test drive the boats you're interested in. If you're worried about how it handles in chop, go test drive it on a blown out day. I'm not sure what length of boat you're interested in but my 24SSV plows through chop, I love it and it's just another thing I don't have to worry about on a busy day on the lake, which is invaluable.
Old     (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       12-22-2010, 6:30 AM Reply   
+1 for the supra 24ssv or my 24V (they are the same hull) on blow out days I blow by most of the other wake boats that are getting beat to death. In water that I had to go under 20 in my old nautique super sport becuase it was raddling my teeth the 24V crusies at 35 no problem.
Old     (srock)      Join Date: Mar 2002       12-22-2010, 7:16 AM Reply   
Along with hull shape for a comfy ride, the bow drop is an issue to me to keep those bigger waves out of the bow.
Old     (HighVoltage)      Join Date: Aug 2010       12-22-2010, 8:36 AM Reply   
The Epic 23V's handle chop pretty decently. They sit decently high in the water with no ballast, have a deeper V hull, the resin infused hull is super strong, and the drop zone sucks the boat down a little bit for stability.

Its still no offshore speed boat, but "chop" isn't going to be a problem.
Old     (riverrunner)      Join Date: Aug 2006       12-22-2010, 9:34 AM Reply   
We are currently in a Centurion Enzo SV240 the deep V hull cuts through rough water like no other boat/brand/model I have owned or ridden in. We came out of a Malibu 23LSV to the Centurion and the ride in rough water is a night and day difference. Always puts a smile on my face when we are running across a rough body of water with another boat, they try to keep up at first, then they usually fall in behind us, then start falling back. The Centurion deep V hulls have an outstanding ride in rough water and is one of the main reasons we choose the boat.
Old     (bill_airjunky)      Join Date: Apr 2002       12-22-2010, 2:23 PM Reply   
I have a friend down in the Parker/Havasu area who has an 08 X-star. He figured it would be a big enough boat, deep enough V to handle the rough water on hot summer weekends. Apparently it was too much. Because he promptly went out & bought a 24' Cobalt I/O with a deep V hull. That boat will cruise right on by the inboards on those rough water days. Bummer when you have so much money you have to have two $100k boats.

Another buddy has an Enzo. Man that thing is terrible on the Columbia river when the wind chop kicks up. Not sure how you guys do it. Boat rattles, tower rattles, dash rattles, no thanks.
Old     (jason95gt)      Join Date: May 2006       12-22-2010, 2:40 PM Reply   
The X-Star is a VERY flat bottom boat. The X-25, 35 or 55 are all a very nice and deep V with a solid construction. Depending on length you want but the X-25 is awesome in rough water.
Old     (riverrunner)      Join Date: Aug 2006       12-22-2010, 4:36 PM Reply   
Bill I guess your V-ride does a better job in rough water? Owners will defend their brand on here, test drive a malibu and a Centurion in the same conditions, the malibu will pound you like a flat bottom john boat, again it is one of the two main reasons we sold our 23lsv and bought a Centurion deep V. If you are looking for a good ride in rough water test drive a Centurion SV230 or SV240 and see for yourself.
Old     (apwrx)      Join Date: Feb 2008       12-22-2010, 4:59 PM Reply   
coming from a i/o with a deep v.Iam happy to say my Malibu vlx rides just as good if not better, a flat bottom john boat? please. i have no problems in rough water as long as the center tank is full.
Old     (hatepain)      Join Date: Aug 2006       12-22-2010, 6:04 PM Reply   
It's very, very common knowledge that Sangers have very good rough water ride. Not to say that there aren't other good rough riding inboards out there but I don't think there is another boat with as much lore surrounding it as any Sanger. If you want big go with the V237.

A Cobalt will crush any inboard for rough water ride period, end of story!
Old     (kko13)      Join Date: Jul 2006       12-22-2010, 6:26 PM Reply   
IMPO the Tige,Supra and Sanger are the best in rough conditions. I take my Tige22v in tampa bay and the gulf and it handles these rougher waters very well. The supra 24ssv I went out on also did well. I also spend time on an 05 avy and it does ok but not near as good as the Tige or the Supra. High freeboard and a deep V are the key IMPO. Tige also runs on a delta pad wich helps as well along with taps wich really makes it nice so you can trim the bow up and it really affects the ride. I do think the Tige trims better than the supra but the supra has a Super deep V wich makes it very good as well. If I had to narrow it down to 2 brands those would be the 2 I would look at. That being said I am a Tige guy so thats what I went with. Good luck in your search.
Old     (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       12-22-2010, 6:40 PM Reply   
The supra 21v really handles rough water well for one of the smaller boats. The deep V, the high freeboard, and the wake plate really make it one of the better 21' boats I have been in for rough water.
Old     (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       12-22-2010, 9:47 PM Reply   
thanks for the thoughts, hopefully some other people will find this useful too. i still have a way to go before affording a boat, but i like to be prepared so i can share my thoughts and talk things through with others and dream "educatedly."

If i continue to live my days in a remote area i will have to one day pick a location to drive to with several brands available to demo on a projected windy day -OR- make several powerturns *gasp* and then drive across them for simulated chop. -OR- just make an educated decision and hope for the best
Old     (bcrider)      Join Date: Apr 2006       12-23-2010, 9:05 AM Reply   
I have no experience but I would think that the new Supreme 226 would be good in rough water as well. The boat has quite a deep V to the hull especially at the back. Also why it sits so high on a trailer.
Old     (wazzy)      Join Date: Nov 2001       12-23-2010, 9:48 AM Reply   
My buddies Centurion Avalanche rides really nice in rough water.
Old     (nauti4life)      Join Date: Sep 2008       12-23-2010, 9:49 AM Reply   
The Nautique 226 has an awsome rough water ride. The 230 is great as well.
Old     (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       12-23-2010, 10:27 AM Reply   
Boats that have great rough water rides from listening to posts on here and going by hull design:

Avalanche, Elite V C4, Cyclone(same hull design as Elite V C4 and Avalanche), Enzo SV230 and Enzo SV240

X35, X55, CSX's, ,Maybe the X25?

I am not sure I have heard any Malibu's have that great of a rough water ride. They are all pretty flat hulls compared to some others.

I am not sure but they are solid boats. Maybe the 226 and 230.

There hull design is kind of interesting. They have a really deep v in the front but it ends about half way back and becomes fairly flat. As long as you keep the bow down with ballast or the trim plate they should have a good rough water ride. Their 21v, 22ssv and 24ssv all have a variation of this hull I believe.

See Supra. They have very similar if not identical hulls below the water line. XLV, LSV

V210, V215, V230, V237. All have a fairly deep V all the way from bow to stern. I would venture the ones with wood stringers feel more solid then the one's with fiberglass stringers. The V210 is really low profile so may not be as seaworthy or dry of a ride but the smoothness of the ride should still be great.

Tige: Pretty much all their boats have a good deep V hull and should ride well in rough water.

The newer hulls seem to have deep V's all the way to the transom so they should be good.

I think some people think that a boat with high freeboard means that the boat has a good rough water ride which in fact it has zero to do with the actual ride in rough water. It may make the boat feel safer because it is deeper and give it a dryer ride though. Another thing that is getting mentioned is rattling or shaking. A boat can have a good rough water ride but make noise. Also a boat can have a crappy rough water ride but feel solid as a rock. I would consider most Nautique's and Malibu's in this catagory. Because of the solid/tight build the boats feel stronger when going through waves. I am not sure who does the best job of making a boat that combines solid build and a good rough water ride but I would think the newer mastercrafts with deep V's all the way to the transom would be a good combination.

Jus tfrom what I have taken from people's posts these brands seem to be known as the one's with the best rough water ride. Sanger, Centurion and Tige.
Old     (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009       12-23-2010, 2:33 PM Reply   
Look for a deep V up front. More freeboard will help keep you dry but not really make the ride any smoother. Freeboard is obviously desirable so you can add more ballast. Not sure how the new boats are, but my old Supra rides great in the chop. I've hit some huge tug wakes without any slamming, banging, rattling, or even getting wet. Just cuts right through it. Deep V up front and pretty flat in the back. The new Supras seem to still have similar hull lines with a relatively deep V in front and flattening out towards the back so I'd imagine they should take chop fairly well.
Old     (wakemitch)      Join Date: Jun 2005       12-23-2010, 3:47 PM Reply   
my family's 02 malibu lsv is definitely not a rough water boat. It comes down hard. I haven't been in a Nautique 230 but the 210 and 216 are not rough water boats either. Again I have not been in the mastercraft x25 or x 35, but all the other ones ive been in are made for glass. MB is better than the previously mentioned but could be smoother.
The Centurion Avalanche, Typhoon, and Enzos are great in rough water. They cut through better than any other wakeboat ive been in. I am not a big fan of the Centurion wakeshape for wakeskating or wakeboarding, so I'll stick with a Nautique or MB on glass
Old     (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       12-23-2010, 5:55 PM Reply   
Originally Posted by HighVoltage View Post
The Epic 23V's handle chop pretty decently. They sit decently high in the water with no ballast, have a deeper V hull, the resin infused hull is super strong, and the drop zone sucks the boat down a little bit for stability.

Its still no offshore speed boat, but "chop" isn't going to be a problem.
any additional opinions on the Epic?
i have always been attracted to what Epic has offered as a wake boat...on paper that is.
heck paper is almost all i know of any boat. I've been on a Malibu, an older natique, a sacked-out Old Mooba, centurion avalance (balast not working), enzo (ballast not working) and a mastercraft x2 i think it was, and an Aztec Crow. but I only drove the mastercraft, the avalanche and the Aztec Crow. My dad owned the Crow a couple years but sold it because of its poor handling in Lake Powell chop. each boat experience was months if not years apart and each boat i only experienced a few times or less (with exception to the Crow), not much to compare to... except that I have no problem remembering i liked the Malibu wake best.
Old    mojo            12-23-2010, 6:10 PM Reply   
What kind of rough water? Choppy or yacht rollers and swells? My 05 210 takes waves great for a 21' wake boat. X-star does a great job as does the 230. I'd only consider x-star and larger boats with good build quality.
Old     (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       12-23-2010, 7:18 PM Reply   
Originally Posted by mojo View Post
What kind of rough water? Choppy or yacht rollers and swells? My 05 210 takes waves great for a 21' wake boat. X-star does a great job as does the 230. I'd only consider x-star and larger boats with good build quality.
A typical day on Powell kind of rough water, and possibly an occasional sneak storm or tour-boat wave kind of water too... which is also typical of Powell really. sorry i did not throw that out there in the beginning for definition sake.

I forgot to ask if anyone knows more of the specs and measurements for Epic. they have very limited info on their site and it has had no recent updates that i can tell to include new/additional stuff like the 21v

also i forgot to acknowledge Brett Yates on the nice list and summary. kool
Old     (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       12-23-2010, 8:00 PM Reply   
Jeremy, no problem. I think the best bet for Powell is to find something with a deeper V and lots of freeboard. Another thing I would invest in is a snap on bow cover for when you are towing the boat behind a house boat or if you have lots of weight in the boat. That way if you do take a wave over the bow it doesn't just bury it and swamp the boat. Most of the newer boats are going to lots of freeboard so you should have a lot fo good options.
Old     (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       12-23-2010, 8:48 PM Reply   
This is rough water. 5' waves with more than 30' between crests.
I've had my boat out in stuff like this. It's kind of fun. It does better running than it does on the buoy.
Cruiser wakes are just speed bumps.
Attached Images
Old     (jonblarc7)      Join Date: Jul 2006       12-24-2010, 6:40 AM Reply   
I would sh!@ my pants if I saw my 24v tied up in that. Really cool picture though.

Last edited by jonblarc7; 12-24-2010 at 6:45 AM.
Old     (mc_x15)      Join Date: Jul 2008       12-24-2010, 7:09 AM Reply   
^^ Holy Eff!!! That is nuts. I would lose my mind if my boat was in that. I ride in a bay that can be very choppy at times. 2.5-3 ft chop, large cruiser going 20 in a no wake zone. My x-15 handles it well. I dont think you will find a wake/ski boat that handles chop like a 35ft sea ray but there are many options that will get you by. Nothing worse than chop.
Old     (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       12-25-2010, 2:31 PM Reply   
Suprisingly I think the X-star is great rough water boat, but it's got to be moving. Otherwise, it's got a very low freeboard.

Nothing is going to touch a full keel deep v like a Cobalt. My brothers 16' Dozi runs circles around any wake boat I've ever been in when the water gets rough. Different hull designs accomplish different feats.
Old     (polarbill)      Join Date: Jun 2003       12-25-2010, 3:11 PM Reply   
Art, it looks like you could use a bow cover. On th eplus side your bilge pump seems to be working which is nice.
Old     (rallyart)      Join Date: Nov 2006       12-25-2010, 5:45 PM Reply   
Yes, in that storm a cover would have helped but the bilge pump had no problem keeping up. The buoy rope would pull the bow down some through the waves and it would take some water on the biggest waves.
The wife does not want snaps under the arms when lounging in the bow so I have not got a cover figured out that will keep the water and rain out yet. Give me a year or two more and I'll have an innovative fix.
Old     (HighVoltage)      Join Date: Aug 2010       12-25-2010, 7:15 PM Reply   
It was a little rough and cold this day, but any day out on the water beats the office.

Old     (srock)      Join Date: Mar 2002       12-27-2010, 7:10 AM Reply   
That looks like deep water, around here our shallow lakes mean short intervals and a sunk boat. A good wave over the bow and you'll have no second chances.


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