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Old     (tgmind)      Join Date: Dec 2014       01-29-2018, 8:27 AM Reply   
Any input would be appreciated. I'm finally ready to buy my first new boat. I know I should Demo them but feel like if I could make a good choice now I can have it for this summer VS Doing demos this summer and waiting till fall to buy. Wanting to buy new and have long warranty, least amount of hassle and get all the new features. Current boat is a 2004 Wakesetter 21 vlx. I like the boat but time for NEW. My house is on the water, lake is only 2000' long, has a slalom course, goes from 6'-30' deep. There is no idle zone, its very convenient, too small to really do anything but take your runs so we don't need a lot of space, bling, big stereo or comfort features. My crew is usually small, 3 adults 2 kids max and lots of times just two of us(no spotter needed :-). None of us are great at anything. Barely learning to surf, lucky to 180 on wakeboard and haven't even tried slalom yet. Kids are just now ready to get behind the boat. On my small lake I like the idea of a 20' boat and have to stay right at 21' or less for sure. I think we will take advantage of the slalom course someday but I want to place priority on Surf wave since any wakeboard wake of a new boat should suffice for our level. I have been trying to investigate the potential boats. MC NXT20, Nautique GS20, Tige R20, Malibu VTX, Axis A20. I keep going back to the Tige R20. It can be had with the stuff I want for $70k and I love the way it looks. Seems to have a great surf wave for the size too. 2nd in line is the VTX, then I'm not sure from there. I want to buy a boat now to get boat show prices and be ready for this summer but the problem is I haven't even seen a R20 or VTX in person. They didn't have either at the Kansas City boat show and will not have any at any of the nearby boat shows coming up. I'm strictly going off what I see online. As you can see I'm still trying to work this out but just looking for opinions on some of these boats for my situation. There is a 2017 GS20 close by but its hard to justify the extra $25k.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       01-29-2018, 8:33 AM Reply   
I’d get the tige. We had an RZR (same hull) and the boat was an awesome 20fter.

It made a decent sized wakeboard wake for a 20fter, huge surf wake, and the slalom wake, while big, was very soft and easy to cut through.

If you were hard core wakeboarders I would say go a20.

NXT20 I have not heard anything positive about so take it or leave it. You’re notgonna get 25k more performance out of the nautique.

You may as well add a moomba helix to the list though
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       01-29-2018, 8:57 AM Reply   
So you have a Malibu and Tige dealers somewhat local, they just did not happen to have those models in stock right now, or you dont have dealers for them? What about getting the dealer to contact an owner and maybe get a look at their boat? Maybe the dealer could offer them a board or free service.

Buying new, I highly suggest having a dealer within a drive that you are comfortable with. Out of area dealers are more then happy to make you a deal when the boat is going 2 states away then its crickets from them when you have an issue. Easy to trade some profit for low warranty labor hour rate.

Other then that, the R20 is a solid boat with the basics. Just be sure to get it fitted with TAPS-3.
Old     (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       01-29-2018, 9:11 AM Reply   
Have you looked at the Centurion fi21 ? It will do everything you are wanting
Old     (tgmind)      Join Date: Dec 2014       01-29-2018, 9:17 AM Reply   
Thanks for the quick replies. Good point about dealers Mike. There are no Tige or Malibu dealers in Kansas City. We only have Nautique and a brand new MC dealer but like SimpleJ stated the reviews on the NXT20 are not great. Plus the looks Arnt really for me. I think I'm forced to use dealers that are 2-3 hours away. I did talk to some at the boat show who said they would pickup the boat if there were any warranty issues.

The centurion is very nice but the dealer is 5 hours away and I'm just not sure about a 5000lb boat. Think I would have to get a new boat lift.
Old     (Ttime41)      Join Date: Nov 2011       01-29-2018, 11:13 AM Reply   
Not sure if you have a good Skiers Choice dealer nearby, but the Supra SR has to be one of the absolute best in the all-around category and is 20'11" long. Really capable of wakeboarding, surfing, and skiing at a very high level and handles like a sports car. If you have good dealer support in your area, it is well worth the look.
Old     (infinitysurf)      Join Date: Apr 2017       01-30-2018, 6:01 PM Reply   
From choices you seem to be leaning toward, I think you would really like the Tige R20, I have been in a few of them and for a "value" boat, it does it all well, looks sharp and puts out a nice surf wave with the deep V hull at a great price. Like Mike said, make sure you have TAPS-3. Plus with boat show incentives, they have 7yr warranty and good rebates. Hard to beat a 7yr warranty!
Old     (tgmind)      Join Date: Dec 2014       01-31-2018, 10:44 AM Reply   
I'm now only deciding between the Tige R20 and the Axis A20. Both seem like good options. Both dealers are 2 hours away. A20 is much easier to add additional ballast but doesn't have rider presets like Tige with touch 2. Tige has larger Bimini but axis has sliding rear seat. Tige does have 7 year engine warranty. Seems like surf waves are equivalent, axis wins for wakeboard and tige wins for Ski. Do you guys agree with that? Its really a hard choice.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       01-31-2018, 11:22 AM Reply   
aren't most new boats in that range going to be close to your lift capacity?

wouldn't kick the centurion out just yet
Old     (tgmind)      Join Date: Dec 2014       01-31-2018, 11:24 AM Reply   
I'm going to try and get more info off my lift tomorrow. That is something I need to figure out.
Old     (on_wi)      Join Date: Feb 2013       01-31-2018, 12:39 PM Reply   
I own an older Axis A20. I bought it because it would give me the best wakeboard wake in the budget 20' lineup. I still believe that to be true. As for the ski wake, on my older hull it does get small, but it is still firm. Not like cutting through the wash of a ski boat. But a step down in size of the ski wake from larger v-drives. I cant speak to the ski wake of the R20 and the only one I've surfed was with a new owner who didn't know how to manage his ballast.
I will say that the R20 will have a more dressed up looking interior so far as vinyl pattern and stitching, but IMO felt smaller than my A20.
I ride my boat and a variety of Mastercrafts, only one guy I know really uses the presets. We normally just fill ballast and go.
I can't imagine a 20' Tige not handling well, but my impression is that the Malibu family is known as boats that do handle well. I'm sure you know you'll be turning quite a bit on a 2000' run.
We also do not use the sliding rear seat, but my crew is normally pretty small.
Hope this is somewhat helpful. I obviously biased, but everyone has their favorite. I'd be hard pressed to throw down lots of money without test driving at least one of them to know you will like what you end up with.
Old     (tgmind)      Join Date: Dec 2014       01-31-2018, 1:45 PM Reply   
W.S. Thanks for the info. I've never had presets so it sounds great but I can see how it might not be as great as it seems or just as easy to do things manually. I know what you mean about driving them. I haven't even seen either in person. None of the dealers or boat shows within a couple hours have either. I can't imagine I would be dissatisfied with either but it is scary drop drop $70k without test drive. Thanks for posting your opinion.
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       01-31-2018, 2:16 PM Reply   
I owned a tige RZR 2016.
And honestly it maybe the best bang for the buck 20footer.
I loved the design and like you said really easy to had ballast.
Prefered it over the A20. More quality for the price and a better surf wave but Axis have a better wakeboard wave.
I opted for the rzr instead of the r20 because the few more thousand worth the price. Just the tower make all the difference, 400 raptor instead of 360, tige touch2, XL ballast and plenty more options.

In the other hand I switched it for a 2017 Nautique 210. The foot more really make a difference and I can tell you maybe you don’t have the extra 25k for a GS20 but you can clearly see the boat is 25k better.
Since 2016 I tested drove pretty much all 20,21 feet boat on the market.
And Nautique really have it. Yes its expensive but not overpriced (like Mastercraft) you definitely have what you pay for.
Vinyl is thicker than all other brand, seams are thoughter, really prefer PCM engine over raptor and Moonson (same brand), more silent due to better insulation and more powered too. Everything is more quality it’s simple.. so yeah the 25k more may be not poping up in the eyes but it’s definitely there and not just for the name.

I had big problems with my tige (it’s not all the fault of Tige more with the dealership) but it was some recurent problems that other tige owners had.
Each time I was taking a ride somethings broke lol.. and it was new, first summer. maybe I had a lemon too. No one really knows And with the poor quality dealer It just make it worst.
But it’s not because a had a bad experience that I’m gonna bash them.

R20 is a good bang for the buck. It’s the best surfwave for the price in the 20foot range.
You have what you pay for too good engine, quality vinyl, great sound system and a damn great look.
Reliability is not their force instead haha..

The best advise is test drive !
And sometimes it’s better to invest a little more and have something really reliable because trust me paying 75K and make 23hours in the whole summer is clearly more frustrating than paying 85 and have the peace of mind haha

Last edited by Mike88; 01-31-2018 at 2:24 PM. Reason: Tapping
Old     (SupremeDevice)      Join Date: Oct 2017       01-31-2018, 4:10 PM Reply   
I will say the A20 will feel considerably bigger inside than the R20. The beam is larger and the bow space also feels bigger to me. As others have said, surf wave goes to the tige and wakeboard wake goes to axis.

Other than that if it's that much of a tossup, I'd say dealer support is your decision maker. Research both dealers and get a feel for them and their service dept, as they can make or break your experience with any brand
Old     (Surfer101)      Join Date: Oct 2015       01-31-2018, 10:03 PM Reply   
If youíre even going to consider skiing the r20 is the only way to go when comparing to axis. The new taps 3 system they put on and xl ballast is creating some of the best waves Iíve seen out of a 20ft boat. For 2018 the r series gets the Tige touch 2 and a much nicer interior compared to previous 16/17 years, just make sure you upgrade to the raptor 400.
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       02-01-2018, 3:18 AM Reply   
Tige will surf a bit better, ski a bit better. Be smaller. The tige also handles very well.

Axis will wakeboard a bit better and have a less finnicky wakeboard wake. It’s also so bigger.

Pick your poison ����*♂️
Old     (Blamey)      Join Date: Apr 2016       02-01-2018, 4:48 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by simplej View Post
Tige will surf a bit better, ski a bit better. Be smaller. The tige also handles very well.

Axis will wakeboard a bit better and have a less finnicky wakeboard wake. Itís also so bigger.

Pick your poison 🤷🏻*♂️
I wouldn't compromise the Wakeboarding/Surfing for a better skiing boat. Get the better Wake/Surf boat and if you or any of your family get into skiing there are plenty of great ski boats from the 90s which can be had for under 10k. Better yet make friends with someone on the lake with a ski boat.


Asking for a ski boat that's also a surf boat is like trying to buy a truck that's also a sports car.

Retro ski boats are cooler. And who doesn't want to own two boats.
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       02-01-2018, 6:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
And who doesn't want to own two boats.
Yeah really! As fun as two wives

The R20 comes with 1600 lbs ballast. I know its all sacs, but not 100% sure on the split, but think its 400 lb bow and 600 lb in each rear locker. Unless they make a crazy change in the 2018 model, you can swap those 600 lb sacs for 1000 lb sacs for an extra 800 lbs ballast.

Odds are, you will not feel a huge need for additional ballast with the stock 1600 and TAPS-3. With the Axis, you will likely need to connect some PnP sacs up for a better wave with the Surf Gate..
Old     (simplej)      Join Date: Sep 2011       02-01-2018, 9:33 AM Reply   
Yes but the tige surfs better...
Old     (BurnMac42)      Join Date: May 2015       02-01-2018, 12:17 PM Reply   
If your lake is good for up to 21' why not consider the R21 or do they look that closely at the fact it technically 21.5? If your primary goal is to max the surf wave starting with a bigger boat is typically a better avenue IF you can swing it....
Old     (chpthril)      Join Date: Oct 2007       02-01-2018, 12:23 PM Reply   
Good point Matt. if the lake restriction is 21 LOA, then that puts you in about a 18ft run-about.
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       02-01-2018, 1:01 PM Reply   
Totally agreed with Matt and Chpthrill (hi mike! )
You already have a 21 VLX. It maybe old, but buying new and smaller don’t seems the best idea. Risk of disappointment can be there since you are familiar to drive a 21.
The difference between a 20 and 21 Is kind of big (for my personal experience). I’ve seen the difference switching my 2008 Moomba outback V (21ft) to rzr (R20). Even with a GS20 and a 210 or the rzr and R21 when I test drive them
If you want to surf and keep surfing for years I‘d really consider a 21. And dry weight difference is not that big if I remember the r20 is approx 3,900lbs and r21 4,100.
But the wave difference tho and bigger ballast options.

Last edited by Mike88; 02-01-2018 at 1:05 PM. Reason: Tapping
Old     (tgmind)      Join Date: Dec 2014       02-01-2018, 2:08 PM Reply   
Yes 21' is the max. 21.5 is too big. Suppose I could go back to considering the new 21VLX. You think the wave on the 21VLX will be noticeably better than R20 or A20? I was just going smaller because its cheaper, will fit in my boat slip better, my crew is small and my lake is tiny.
Old     (tgmind)      Join Date: Dec 2014       02-01-2018, 2:09 PM Reply   
Also my 21vlx has 93" beam which is smaller than both 20' boats Im looking at.
Old     (Mike88)      Join Date: Aug 2016       02-01-2018, 3:10 PM Reply   
Can’t really tell you with that. I’ve tried the 22Lsv but never the 21 from bu’s. Too much on my lake and not a big fan of surf gate.
But yes pretty sure it will make a good difference on the surf wave.

Im just giving you advices
if you feeling like your present boat may be a little too big it’s a whole other story! Maybe you will love the small boat experience. And if the wave is fair enough for you, you will be glad to have saved on the price. Seriously if you are beginning to surf you will be impress how a R20 can create a massive wave haha.. but when you surf since the past 8years, reaching your perfect surfwave became kind of picky haha..

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