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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Wakeboarding Discussion Archives > Archive through August 29, 2006

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Old     (thor)      Join Date: Oct 2001       08-08-2006, 10:33 AM Reply   
Everyday on WW I see people asking what board is right for me? What board will allow me to progress to the next level? What board will help me land my first invert?

It's my opinion that a board is a board and the only thing holding back a rider's progression is time on the water, ability, and a willingness to take some hard crashes along the way.

There was another thread recently asking if a Sol or Motive would be a better beginner board, and it prompted me to make this post. The Motive is the old Belmont shape from 2000/2001 if I recall correctly. I also believe that this same board is the board that Shaun Murray rides in his detention video. My point being, that if Shaun Murray was able to ride that board and perform all of the tricks that he does in the detention video on it, then I can't see how a board like the Belmont/Motive can ever be outgrown or outdated.

I still ride the old belmont shape, and I love it. I'm not a great rider, but I have a great time everytime I'm out on the water. Do I think a new board would enable me to land my scarecrow? No. Do I think the new boards of today are made better and offer specialized characteristics? Yes. Do I think buying one of these boards is going to make me a better rider than I can be when riding my Belmont? No!!!

Any thoughts on the subject?
Old     (wesgardner)      Join Date: Oct 2003       08-08-2006, 10:41 AM Reply   
I agree totally...the old shapes were the "pro" models of the day and quite a few pretty cool tricks were performed on them...

For the elite rider, a different story perhaps...
Old     (innov8)      Join Date: May 2005       08-08-2006, 10:47 AM Reply   
I think its more about personal preference then anything else and I think the boards of today just do everything better then shapes of the past. That dosent mean you cant do any tricks on the older shapes as we know Parks and Murray and alot of other riders did, I just think the new shapes pop harder, land softer Ect. Ect. But It all still comes down to personal preference and what YOU want out of YOUR board.
Old     (dbjts)      Join Date: Nov 2003       08-08-2006, 10:55 AM Reply   
It’s the same the world over with just about every product you can think of.
99.9% of the end users of the ultimate model can’t use it to its full potential, but they want “the Best”.
Advertisers own your soul “Because you’re worth it”.
Old     (bendow)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-08-2006, 10:56 AM Reply   
it really all depends on what your used to. I learned how to ride on a byerly, so when I tried "beginer boards" they didn't suit me well. now I ride a pretty sweet 2 by 4...jk. I think the rider makes 90% and board 10% of the skill
Old     (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-08-2006, 10:58 AM Reply   
Yah, its really how you want to spend your time on the water and how that interaction should be. I do think that there is a MASSIVE difference between a Roam and say (insert almost any board) a Marius; but that is the extreme example. I used to say that a pro could rip on a piece of plywood, now thats been proven thanks to the roam, lol.

The manufacturers would like you to believe that with each new design your riding can go up as well. A lot of people who are newer to the sport that I have talked to seem to think that once they find "the secret board" they will become the next Murray or Harf. Like thats whats really holding them back (which is what the manufacturers are going for).

Personally for me that fastest way to progressing is an evenly spread out 3-4 times on the water with about 2-3 sets per outing. If I can work that out each week I am pretty stoked; and people find me "generally more enjoyable", lol.
Old     (thor)      Join Date: Oct 2001       08-08-2006, 11:03 AM Reply   
I agree that board choice is all personal preference, and I hope that everyone makes their board choice based upon their own likes and dislikes. Not the opinions of what is the latest flavor of the week and the most highly talked about board at the time.

The point of my post is that a specific board isn't going to make you a better rider or take you to the next level of your riding goals. A board is a board and you might as well make your choice based upon the best looking graphics.
Old     (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       08-08-2006, 11:20 AM Reply   
yup, we always joke about what we're riding in the coming years.... all I want is cool graphics.
Old     (kylielogan)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-08-2006, 11:32 AM Reply   
ok, what they heck ... i'll disagree. here's what i've found for me personally: i learned on a double up 133 and rode it over 2 1/2 summers (off and on, when i wasn't injured in some way or another), but i didn't progress much. it is an awesome board, but not an awesome board for me. and i'm not knocking the board, because i'm sure someone with more skill could ride it well. when i switched to my current board, things were so much easier. i've been out twice on my new board and have already progressed farther than on the double up. i admit a lot of it is probably mental, but boards ride differently and i had to find one i'm comfortable with. i'm sure i COULD ride a roam (going by the 8 second rule, of course), but i'm just as sure that i wouldn't perform at MY peak skill level on it. and when i'm riding, it's all about me doing my best and me having fun. don't really care if it's new/old, cheap/expensive, as long as i like it. oh, and it has to be pretty ... j/k!!
Old    walt            08-08-2006, 11:48 AM Reply   

quote:

It's my opinion that a board is a board and the only thing holding back a rider's progression is time on the water, ability, and a willingness to take some hard crashes along the way.




I've got to disagree with the board is a board part of Your statement Robert. Can and do people rip on the HL Motive ? Sure but that doesn't make it a great board for Me. I'm not a great rider either but I know what I like and don't like in the way a board handles.

I do think it's a mistake to ask what boards best for Me because We all have are own preferences. I guess a beginner wouldn't know the difference one way or the other though ?

Bottom line is You should demo.
Old     (bda10889)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-08-2006, 11:56 AM Reply   
I agree totally that a board is a board. I am just starting out and I picked up a CWB Trancend for my fist board and i have just as much fun even though i am probably not as good of a rider as the board is a board... SO ... thats that....
Old     (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-08-2006, 11:59 AM Reply   
I was thinking the other day about the progression of wakeboards. I would like to see a dampenning system that decreases the effects of choppy water on the board and rider. Something that makes riding in a little bit of chop less-noticeable to the way a board cuts etc.

I am not a science major, but I would be curious about the possibilities of this.
Old     (byrd)      Join Date: Dec 2005       08-08-2006, 12:06 PM Reply   
I dont agree with "a board is a board", but I do agree the "It's not the arrow, its the Indian" idea. For example, a Motive will be a lot easier to learn the basics on than a Parks or Byerly. People do upgrade due to issues like delamination, cracking, dings, etc. So its not just that everyone wants the newest stuff.
Old     (wakeslife)      Join Date: Jul 2005       08-08-2006, 12:07 PM Reply   
A board is a board. I have a Parks and ride nothing like Parks. But next year I'm going to pick up a Transcend so I can ride more like Andrew.
Old     (poserondubs)      Join Date: Aug 2004       08-08-2006, 12:08 PM Reply   
i am a firm believer in the board is a board statement...

DRew
Old    walt            08-08-2006, 12:49 PM Reply   
I'm not saying that any one board would make you a better rider but they have different handling characteristics.

There are handling characteristics that I like and don't like. and IMHO that blows the board is a board theory.
Old     (maximum_carnage)      Join Date: Apr 2004       08-08-2006, 1:03 PM Reply   
I mostly agree with the board is a board statment.

I remember posting a thread over a year ago asking how much of the following actually helps to get more air, perform better in general, etc. The wakeboard itself, rope/handle, boat/wake size, and the riders own skill/ability. In general it seems that most of the posts said that the riders skill/ability come greatly into play the most. Boat/wake size seemed to come in second.

I think that if a rider has lots of skill they could still accomplish many tricks on any type of board along with having a limited wake size. Granted, it might not be as easy or as smooth as they had hoped for but it still can be done.

Being a beginner myself, I originally started off on a more basic "beginner" board and now have tried some other boards that might be considered more "advanced". While I have noticed differences in the tracking, pop, speed, landings, etc. amongst the different boards, I believe that the board itself only plays a small factor in advancing.

(Message edited by maximum_carnage on August 08, 2006)
Old     (bdaddy)      Join Date: Jun 2006       08-08-2006, 1:06 PM Reply   
IMO more $$$ doesn't equal better board and better rider. I like the idea of rocking an "old cheap" board better than dropping $400+ on the latest and greatest. I guess in my mind I have the power to improve my riding...the board doesn't.
Old     (liquidmx)      Join Date: Jun 2005       08-08-2006, 1:20 PM Reply   
Walt, I think the statement "a board is a board" is more specifically pointed towards the way someone would perform on a wakeboard. Yah there are several different and noticeable qualities to boards that are on the market; but I dont think one of them would decrease a serious rider's (outlaw and above) trick list(given time to adjust). With that said I think a board could make a substantial difference in a beginners experience.

I think the real deal is that its more of a diminishing returns equation: the better you get the less the board is involved in the process. I personally watched a good friend who would ride right around the outlaw level try 5 boards in one set (since his last had been stolen). He was able to perform all his stock tricks on all boards; but the way they looked and how hard he had to work for them was very different between a board he liked and one he didnt. IMHO a good board for me is one that I can wear like an old pair of shoes, it fits just right and there isnt anything strange about it.

Edit: Okay I just realized that I may be hipocritcal in this statement; as I just purchased a back up board due to the company no longer currently existing. I love this board and intend to ride it for a long time.

(Message edited by liquidmx on August 08, 2006)
Old     (uppledup17)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-08-2006, 1:49 PM Reply   
IMO I disagree with the board being a board statement. I agree that someone shouldn't be looking for a board that will land them an invert or progress "for" them.You have to be the one to progress not the board. BUT, I am a believer though that the characteristics of a board make huge differences in any class beginner to outlaw. I am beginner and I have a Substance and for the life of me I cannot keep the board firm in the water riding switch. And we are talking trying for weeks to ride it switch. Different fin configs and everything. I jumped on my buddies CWB Tattoo and Had no problems controliing the board switch. Which is an example of why people ask board questions in the first place. Should a beginner being riding and advanced board to learn on or a intermidiate board til they comfortable. I ask questions about boards because as I progress and learn more about what I should feel when I am riding and how I want to fell riding, I am going to ask peoples opinions on what they feel would suit me.
Old     (kylielogan)      Join Date: Apr 2006       08-08-2006, 2:29 PM Reply   
Adam - perfect example of why a board that is good for one person is not good for another. the substance is the board i just switched to that i love, and i'm improving a lot on it and have no problem riding it goofy or switch.
Old     (dcranium)      Join Date: Mar 2006       08-08-2006, 2:30 PM Reply   
I agree w/Robert. A few years ago, before I saw the light and bought a boat, I was pretty heavy into golf. I heard from all kinds of people who were waiting to by the next big driver or set of irons which would propel them to a better game. But if you suck and don't spend much time playing, take lessons, etc. then you won't improve.
It's not usually the equipment it's the person using the equipment (no matter if it's golf or boarding or anything else for that matter) that counts. Take the time to improve and don't blame your board/bindings/wake/driver/blah blah blah!

Oh yeah, remember it's supposed to be fun
Old     (wakeboard19)      Join Date: Apr 2005       08-08-2006, 2:38 PM Reply   
Each pro board is desined for a riding style. If you match a style then a board will fit you better than others.
Old     (kempogoju_ross)      Join Date: Jul 2006       08-08-2006, 2:43 PM Reply   
I feel the bindings make alot more of a difference than the board.....I tend to adjust to different board however if I use basic multi size binding vs. custom fit for exhample HL split vs Temets........big difference!!!! Any thoughts?????
Old     (uppledup17)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-08-2006, 3:32 PM Reply   
How good were you at Golf Ron????? Could you see differences in ball flight,yardage,feel when using different clubs,balls,etc? I know I can when playing golf and unfortunately a much better golfer than boarder. Not even being a good wakeboarder I can tell differences when going for board to board. Nothing can replace time on the water but boards aren't just boards just as golf balls or not just golf balls.
Old     (thor)      Join Date: Oct 2001       08-08-2006, 4:07 PM Reply   
Okay, I agree that boards ride differently.

There is definitely a noticeable difference between a continuous and 3-stage rocker board, but in general, a board isn't going to make you a better rider. You might feel more comfortable on one board versus another board based upon your riding style, but you're not going to become a better rider because of the board that you ride.

I've been riding for 7 or 8 years, and I've had the opportunity to ride quite a few different boards over that time. I admit that I liked some boards more than others, and I admit that I felt more comfortable on some boards than others, but I've yet to find that "special board" that made me a better rider because I was on it.

I guess the point that I'm trying to make when I say that "a board is a board" is that you should find a board that fits your riding style, but don't expect any particular board to make you a better rider. The only way to get better is by putting the time in on the water.
Old     (wakeriderixi)      Join Date: Jan 2004       08-08-2006, 6:01 PM Reply   
Okay, I didn't read anyones post but the first one but here is what I think.... I believe that all the different shapes really only effect a really good riders ability to perform tricks easier.
Old     (xstarmeli)      Join Date: Jun 2006       08-08-2006, 6:07 PM Reply   
Well said Robert!
Old     (dcranium)      Join Date: Mar 2006       08-08-2006, 7:13 PM Reply   
Adam-
In the words of Judge Smails,"I'm no slouch myself.." ( I was a 12.4) And yes I hit many a different club demo-ing them at the local range/course (Haggin Oaks). I could feel the difference between clubs and also golf balls (Pro V-1 vs. Top Flite vs. Calloway etc.) But when it came down to it the clubs don't make you better, just like the board doesn't make you better.
Agree with Robert again in that boards ride differently- golf clubs feel different (diff. trajectory, feel, shaping a shot.) It doesn't make a big difference on your scorecard and it doesn't make a big difference in riding-i.e. make you a better rider.
Old    chocobeat            08-08-2006, 7:32 PM Reply   
i believe boards can make HUGE diffrences to beginners... prime example, my friend had not been wakeboarding very long, and he was using my LF Subjekt... he was basically very squirly, sliding around, couldnt clear half the wake... a few days later when his substance came in he could do wake to wake jumps and he even landed a few out in the flats... he looked very comfortable... board or rider??? you be the judge
Old    walt            08-08-2006, 7:42 PM Reply   
Is a Wake a Wake ?
Old     (ak4life)      Join Date: Nov 2003       08-08-2006, 7:47 PM Reply   
how about a rider is a rider? in that case, where's my X-Games gold????
Old     (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       08-08-2006, 8:50 PM Reply   
Well I had a very similar conversation with Greg Necrasson. His opinion was that decks wear out and don't have the same Pop after a number of sets. Ask any pro rider and I'm sure they'll tell you that they go through a number of boards throughout the season for this very reason.

Does any one board make you a better rider? No way. But will a new deck ride better than your old one? Absolutely.

(Message edited by solo on August 08, 2006)
Old     (clubjoe)      Join Date: Sep 2005       08-08-2006, 9:43 PM Reply   
How bout another unexpert opinion?.....

I absolutely do not think a board is a board. I got up on a cheap board, and as soon as I could stand, bought an 03 Parks. I told the salesman I wanted a control board with maximum pop. I figured I would grow into whatever I got.

I loved the board because at the time, it gave me the stability I didn't have yet. I rode an 02 Premier by chance one day, and knew I liked the board better without knowing why......It was a while later before I could appreciate the differences.

I think the differences are just more appreciated as skill improves (kinda like the 6am water. New riders just appreciate the pull, and don't whine about conditions). I tried my Parks again, and now, can't see why I liked it so well....

If I find a board that plays well with my riding habits/style, it will affect my comfort, and THAT will affect my ability to improve...making me a better rider. At least that's the plan....

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