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Old     (flyingtoaster2)      Join Date: Mar 2006       11-08-2006, 11:49 AM Reply   
Didn't like the title of the last thread...I've been watching this thing since it was announced in Go Boating Magazine last March. I'm all for something that brings controllable big air, no matter how it's done. Gotta say...this looks fun (even though it's a clear hybrid). But hey, my wolf/husky mix is one kick ass dog! Like wakeskating, wakesurfing, etc.., thank god for inventive minds. To H(*)ll with close-minded naysayers. Have fun talking trash while I'm out busting a 20' air!!

Check it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JVaMXSG_-o
Old    riverside_drive            11-08-2006, 11:56 AM Reply   
Yah a twenty foot 360... Look in the video, he does some backside almost ole' 3 but just switches his hands around a few times its a trip! You may not be able to do typical wakeboard tricks but it'll be fun to come up with new ones. I've never seen that type of 3 b4
Old     (waketime)      Join Date: Nov 2006       11-08-2006, 12:26 PM Reply   
I have to agree that this looks pretty dang sweet, just one more sport to try and push the limits.... Think about how much possible advancement could come in this sport over the years...
Old     (flyingtoaster2)      Join Date: Mar 2006       11-08-2006, 12:32 PM Reply   
Dunno... hopefully they come out with some handle that allows for easier spin. I guess this is the first model.. Still though, sick new tricks are poss. while some aren't possible. Sounds like any new sport. Given anything else, I'd rather be out trying new things, pioneering, etc. if given the chance. I am stoked this thing is coming.
Old     (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       11-08-2006, 12:33 PM Reply   
whats the point of 20ft air, if you cant even do a grab up there??
Old     (flyingtoaster2)      Join Date: Mar 2006       11-08-2006, 12:34 PM Reply   
I saw grabs in their video?? But again, this is a first time sport. I would imagine people will invent new tricks, get better, etc. But yes, I saw a grab, and a 3 in the video. Remember, it's early days...like anything new.
Old    riverside_drive            11-08-2006, 12:34 PM Reply   
I wonder if you gotta haul ass when you're riding in the same direction as the wind...
Old     (flyingtoaster2)      Join Date: Mar 2006       11-08-2006, 12:38 PM Reply   
bet you the wind matters a lot. Probably sweet into the wind but lame with the wind at your tail. Brings a new element to consider.. Probably best in no wind at all.
Old    riverside_drive            11-08-2006, 12:40 PM Reply   
Yah but thats to be expected... wakeboarding is best on glass.. still im sure you're right. Must be righteous in a headwind... hope i can hang on.
Old     (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       11-08-2006, 12:46 PM Reply   
Wouldn't your arms get tired having to hold the kite down the whole time? Naturally the line would want to be straight between the tow point and the kite but you are pulling it down 15 feet from that point and it would seem like you would be beat relatively quickly.
Old    riverside_drive            11-08-2006, 12:49 PM Reply   
Yah I bet it's tough. I'm not a huge guy so i could be in trouble. They should put different power settings for training or something. better start doin pullups on your tower homey
Old     (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       11-08-2006, 12:55 PM Reply   
Here is the risk, the bar is controlling the kites direction. Where its pointed and its location in the "wind window" determines how it is lifting. You remove one hand at significant height, and your remaining hand starts the kite into a turn, removing lift. no lift, you go down....in a hurry.

See, this isnt that dangerous in kiteboarding because you lose forward momentum when you boost into the air. however, in this scenario, the boat maintains your forward momentum. This makes for a hard spill.

Obviously you wont listen to me, so go buy it. you will learn precisely what Im talking about. if your lucky, you wont get too banged up, and youll learn a healthy respect for it. However, not everyone will be as lucky as you, or as respectful. The Wego was relatively tame until it was abused with excessive line legnths and excessive speed. As soon as someone dies from a fall from abusing a wakekite, they will be banned too. Then yours will be on ebay for $40.
Old     (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       11-08-2006, 1:00 PM Reply   
Eubanks, no, you arms wouldnt get tired from holding it down. because while your edging you steer it to be low...like right behind you...so it has no vertical pull, only horizontal pull, pulling you in the direction its facing (towards the wake or away). As you hit the wake you pull one side of the handle which sends the kite skyward. this change of direction is what pulls you into the air. the hang in the air will tire your arms out because you have no way of keeping at your hips. So you hang from it like a chin-up bar til you come down.
Old     (waketime)      Join Date: Nov 2006       11-08-2006, 1:56 PM Reply   
Really thought its water... what about people who ride mountain bikes or something doing back flips off 40 ft. cliffs, and people fall crash break some bones whatever... Most sports if people are serious, have risk of injury... and they know that .... really would sports be that fun if there was no risk involved?
Old     (flyingtoaster2)      Join Date: Mar 2006       11-08-2006, 1:57 PM Reply   
Every sport has risks. And going huge on a standard wakeboard (12'+) will indeed bring you slamming down HARD (esp. knees) if you don't stick it. At least with the kite you have a better chance of a soft landing. But, of course, it will not always be soft. You can see in the video that the guy doing the grab is being assisted on the way down. It also looks like the kite doesn't fully lift; it seems rather to elongate the jump...
Old     (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       11-08-2006, 2:15 PM Reply   
Joe, there is a difference between pros getting banged up, and novices being killed.

Randy, yes under the right conditions, thats exactly what you get. if the kite is controlled properly, and the boat is going the proper speed and the rope is the proper legnth, and you are at a correct angle to the wind, you get a fun lift and soft landing. All that stuff changes from rider to rider depending on weight. Now You are a smart guy, and can probably figure all this out and are smart enough to follow the rules. But, what happens when it falls in the hands of those who dont? Ill tell you, its BANNED. What is the value of your hard earned $1500 then?
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       11-08-2006, 2:41 PM Reply   
The main thing that concerned me was the slack rope on some of those jumps. With the floating motion, It looked possible to get tangled. That would suck.
Old     (flyingtoaster2)      Join Date: Mar 2006       11-08-2006, 2:42 PM Reply   
How do you have so much experience with this thing? Have you ridden it?
Old     (waketime)      Join Date: Nov 2006       11-08-2006, 2:44 PM Reply   
Great and every pro out there started somewhere... Getting banged up is part of sports... and as for conditons most sports need ideal conditions but you don't always get them, your telling me you only kiteboard in "perfect conditions"... highly doubt it....
Old     (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       11-08-2006, 5:00 PM Reply   
Joe, thats my point. You wakeboard in less than perfect conditions, but it doesnt cause you to die.

Randy, sorry, if Im getting ahead of you guys. This has been in R+D in the kite world for quite some time, and had been beaten into the ground.

In fact Don Montague, who is the Jimmy Redmon of kite design, helped design it. It will definitely be of reasonable quality.

The problem is power. In kiteboarding your power is limited by the wind. You can only do so much. However with this device, you have an unlimited power source; the boat. Some serious risk here. Wings fail.

Again you guys sound like all the guys who were excited about the Wego. Just go buy it and learn your lesson.
Old     (flyingtoaster2)      Join Date: Mar 2006       11-08-2006, 10:44 PM Reply   
Well..I certainly think it looks a bit different than the Wego.. That was a deal you laid on top of, and was clearly un-stable. At least with this you are below the wing (not on top). That looks to make a big difference in stability... But we'll see. Nothing like truly getting on the stick. I'm sorry though, it just looks fun. Sure there's some risk, but there is in so many things. Who is Jimmy Redmon? He helped make it? How long has it been in development?
Old     (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       11-09-2006, 6:39 AM Reply   
I think your missing my point. The Wego is fun and safe, as long as you use it properly. If abused, its becomes deadly with little effort. Toys in the US that can be deadly with little effort are banned. I dont doubt the stability or the quality of the wakekite. Don M is one of the smartest kite guys alive!

Im not trying to protect your life, Im trying to protect your money. You are probably one of the people that would use it as intended and have fun with it, just like many who put down $1000 for a Wego and enjoyed it safely. However, you have to look at it as it is distributed to the masses. What do you think all those cautious Wego riders are doing with their $1000 investment? They cant ride them in most places anymore.

The only caution Im giving you is to look at how the ease of abuse took $1000 from others and dont let it happen to you.
Old     (bill)      Join Date: Feb 2001       11-09-2006, 7:11 AM Reply   
there was a grab and a weird spin in there but mostly a bunch of airs,shiftys,stiffys,and backscratchers..other then the height thats beginner stuff in wakeboarding ..How long before that becomes boring and not challenging?

also what happens when your 20ft in the air and your hands slips of the handle,ouch that would hurt probrably a broken bone..

In the end i waneboard for the fun and the challenge and not usually trying to get big air but to stomp tricks..I guess we all are in it for different reasons but if it was too easy and limiting and cost $1500 dollars i wouldnt be wakeboarding anymore..

to each their own..

have fun but ill be inverted,grabbing,spinning ,moving and flipping all over the lake while your hanging up there ,be sure to wave as you go by :-)
Old     (jon_m)      Join Date: Mar 2006       11-09-2006, 8:22 AM Reply   
it would be wakeboarder-types doing this. it's not going to get banned because tubers won't be riding it in their typical irresponsible fashion.

"hell, let's tie 'bout a hunderd foot more rope on 'ere and see how high she flies. i'll try that after a couple'a beers." - every redneck tuber who bought a wego

(Message edited by jon_m on November 09, 2006)
Old     (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       11-09-2006, 8:36 AM Reply   
Jon, you underestimate the willpower of the redneck. As soon as they see one on the lake they will hunt one down.

kid: "Make it go BIGGER daddy!!!"

dad: "hold my beer, momma, were takin' junior for a ride, YEEEEHAWWW!!!!!!"
Old     (mrm2083)      Join Date: Nov 2005       11-09-2006, 8:46 AM Reply   
You say that in the wrong hands this can be dangerous but just think about how dangerous a boat is in the wrong hands. Anything in the wrong hands is dangerous.
Old     (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       11-09-2006, 10:34 AM Reply   
true, but that is a licensed vehicle, not a kids toy.
Old     (wake4fun)      Join Date: Oct 2005       11-09-2006, 10:44 AM Reply   
At my local boat show last winter a sales guy was telling me just how awesome the Kite Tube was and that everyone should get one...My comment was "yeah, well wait til someone kills themselves on it from misuse". I have the same feelings about this. The public will find a way to get this banned and I think because of the Kite Tube they will find it hard to find places to use it.
Old     (froese)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-09-2006, 12:01 PM Reply   
Jason - I must admit that I am impressed with your persistance. Keep trying to save lives, man...

so noble, so noble.
Old     (eubanks01)      Join Date: Jun 2001       11-09-2006, 12:34 PM Reply   
Jarrim - Go away and stop padding your post count!
Old     (froese)      Join Date: Jun 2005       11-09-2006, 1:04 PM Reply   
no kidding - now I have, like, 48...
Old     (woohoo)      Join Date: Jun 2006       11-09-2006, 2:05 PM Reply   
Will it work like a normal kite and catch its edge in the air and accelerate into the water? What happens to the rider then?
Old     (hyule)      Join Date: Nov 2006       11-09-2006, 6:03 PM Reply   
I have my reservations about this new development. Most noticeably. it seems limited. Not as much height as kiteboarding and no technical tricks. If you want big air and free movement, kite. It looks cool butt after a while I'd be thinking why am I behind this 50 000 dollar boat telling me where to go when I could grab my kite and board and charge it.

Decent idea though. Just no necessary.
Old     (jnelson)      Join Date: Oct 2005       11-09-2006, 6:32 PM Reply   
Jason G, I only read some of your post, enough to know that you are mostly wrong. I tried the kite in Las Vegas. It does use a differant group of muscles and takes some work to hold down. We tried to be those "rednecks" and pulled it a very HIGH speed and not matter how fast, the rider was still in control. And yes, when you let go with one hand it changes direction of the kite. BUt the kite was designed so that by steering the kite you can carry yourself further. So let go with the correct hand and get more air. Maybe we are not smart enough but we could not find a way to abuse this and get hurt. The guys that designed, started, and use wakekite are some of the smartest guys I have met and they never used the word "wind window". Before you express your views on any product go out and give it a try. I am not going to tell you about a kite tube because I have never been on one. If anyone has any questions on my experience please ask.
Old     (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       11-09-2006, 7:34 PM Reply   
I personally am excited by the wake kite, but i am also a little worried about the potential idiots who watch too much "jack ass" and cant tell what is real for themselves anymore...or death (for that matter)... screwing things up for the rest of us and the wake kiting future.

CHECK THIS VIDEO OUT EVERYONE- http://alexpetersonkiteflight.com/v4.html

Granted that this is a completely UNregulated system, with no safety features like wake kite has (automatic detachable harness thing if too much wind and all the other stuff. THE POINT I WANT TO MAKE by this video is--- that it looks like the wake kite (to some IT WILL, don't deny it)and if someone kills themselves doing this than "ANY THING like unto it" (wake kite) might get affected too.

ONLY TIME WILL TELL I THINK
ONLY TIME WILL TELL
Old     (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       11-09-2006, 8:02 PM Reply   
here is another... worse, from another related post http://www.kiteflix.com/wipeout.html
Old     (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       11-09-2006, 8:04 PM Reply   
Just pray that they don't associate the two (wake kite vs "stupid kite") and ban "anything like unto it"
Old     (waketime)      Join Date: Nov 2006       11-09-2006, 11:16 PM Reply   
For all those bashing, all I have to say is this, how can you say something is stupid, or lame etc. when it hasn't even been released. And to compare it to the Wego tube is ridiculous, it is absolutely nothing like the wego tube. and Jason... As for saving people money or whatever you are trying to do, I recommend saving your comments because pretty sure don't know the first thing about the product. So to pretend that you do and tell people all these things that could go wrong when you have no idea how it even works is pretty stupid in my opinion.
Old     (flyingtoaster2)      Join Date: Mar 2006       11-10-2006, 9:05 AM Reply   
I'm with you Jeremy...Let's hope they don't associate the two.. It doesn't look possible to get this kind of air on the wake kite. But I agree, let's hope their is no association to harnessed-in, kiteboarding tow-ups. I agree that looks super sketchy.
Old     (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       11-10-2006, 2:32 PM Reply   
Ugh, I dont know why I even try. This product was being designed and marketed to kiteboarders long before these topics showed up here. The same guys who design kiteboarding kites helped design this. I know how kites work, and obviously you do not.

I never said it performed like a Wego. I was making a comparison to how the new product hit the market and was immediately banned because of idiots. I was cautioning buyers about spending money on a product that will be banned due to idiots as well.

...and, just because you dont know what the "wind window" is or how it affects a kite does not make me stupid.

Im not saying you wont enjoy it. Im saying the risk for abuse is high, like the Wego, so the potential for ban is high. Hate to see you lose out on $$$.

Here are some comments from the creator back in March...

http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2325380&highlight=wakekite
Old     (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       11-10-2006, 4:08 PM Reply   
you may be right, and i agree with your worries about "IDIOTS" in a very simmilar way... But only time will tell. I can see the future playing out to be like the wego crisis, but i can also see good things happening and a distinct name for the wakekite.

I personaly see only two roads
1) Fame (maybe not for everyone of course, not everyone even likes wakeboarding)
-----------OR--------
2) Banishment and Exile to private lakes only

THE SECOND will depend on
A)Idiots who abuse the system
B)Complaints (most coming from the idiots themselves and their relatives)
C)Manufactures, Stores that sell the product, and customer relations
D)Government, including park service
E)Media and advertisement
F)TIME
G)TIME
H)TIME
Old     (flyingtoaster2)      Join Date: Mar 2006       11-10-2006, 5:12 PM Reply   
Jason,
You are wrongly presumptious. Your suggestion that I don't understand what a 'wind window is, or how it affects a kite' only underscores a strong element of naivete in you, as in this case you are incorrect about my specific knowledge base. Previously, you have been judging a product with which (as far as I can tell) you have NO personal, hands on experience with.

Jason, I think your intentions are good, and that you have good wake and kite knowledge. You should however avoid making judgements about other people's knowledge levels, as in this case, I too have been following the product and am quite aware of the forces at work with the wind and in kites.

No doubt this thing is DIFFERENT than wakeboarding. As noted in the past writings of the founder (which you pointd to me above), wakekiting is not meant to compete with wakeboarding - it's just something new to try. Some new tricks, some old tricks, some things not possible, others to be invented. Just for kicks. But the end all key message: If you don't like it, don't buy it.
Old     (gene3x)      Join Date: Apr 2005       11-11-2006, 9:55 AM Reply   
I am embarrassed to admit that I almost bought a wego cheap from some guy online.
Old     (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       11-11-2006, 8:25 PM Reply   
maybe you ought to buy it anyway... it might become a collecters item one day
Old     (clubmyke)      Join Date: Aug 2004       11-12-2006, 5:32 AM Reply   
i heard hyperlite bought the rights to this and they will be releasing this in 2007 for $1500...

btw, i want one..
Old     (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       11-12-2006, 9:31 PM Reply   
I have heard about the support/ partnership (whatever) with HO before, but I am now realizing that this is a good thing... especially in light of all this debate about wake kite.
I don't care what good or bad things are said about HO or Hyperlite, knowing that a company like hyperlite is supporting wake kite (in spite or without spite of wego...) is a good sign for the future of wake kite.
Cheers to wake kite! May you prosper and have longevity!
Old     (madchild1)      Join Date: Mar 2005       11-12-2006, 11:45 PM Reply   
wakekite?













no.
Old     (jason_ssr)      Join Date: Apr 2001       11-13-2006, 7:33 AM Reply   
Randy, I was not making presumptions about you. I was adressing the fellow who tried it and said I didnt know what I was talking about because the people who let him try it didnt mention the wind window to him.

Again, Im not attacking the device. Im not saying it isnt of high quality. I know who designed it, so I know it will deliver lift as promised.

My only contention was that it is a risk to buy because abuse gets these towable things banned.

Do I think it will be entertaining? Maybe initially, but not long term. However, my opinion of its fun factor should be irrelevant. Thats for you to decide. The risk is if your new toy will be usable after the first few injuries. My point had been nothing but a financial risk perspective for fellow wakeboarders, nothing more.

Again, not pissing on anyones fun, just hate seeing friends spend big on something like that only to be unable to use it.
Old     (seven20)      Join Date: Feb 2003       11-13-2006, 6:44 PM Reply   
that is dumber than the suspesion thing on the top of the tower. At least if you have no skill at getting pop on a wakeboard, now you can still impress the ladies with that pos...wait, no
Old     (wakerider111)      Join Date: Jul 2006       11-14-2006, 1:55 PM Reply   
Some of you sound like the guys who teased me and made fun of me back in middle school when i first found out about wakeboarding and started "spreading the gospel word of wake." I never let allowed all the slammed doors steer me away from having fun each weekend on my cheap 38 off brand wakeboard on lake powell.
"Wakeboarding is for woosies who cant take the falls of snowboarding." "Ahhh.... poor baby needs a leash to pull him arround... snowboarding is better..." most of the comments seemed to be wakeboarding vs. snowboarding based, which is really stupid and mind boggling considering i am from the tip north part of arizona. The nearest place to snowboard is like 3 hours away, but lake powell is right in our very own back door. WEIRED!!!. BUT HEY, NO HURT FEELINGS... many of those guys who teased me and slammed the door in my face, i welcomed later through my own door, into my family boat, and into my wakeboard. All those guys became avid wakeboarders, though not all of them give acknowledgement to me (who cares, i just do what i like and their enjoying it too)

I know the story is kinda long, i'm not looking for acknowledgement, or sympathy, or... AND i know that the relationship is not exactly the same as Wakeboarding, vs wake kite, vs kite boarding.

This is a new thing. Its gona look cheesy at first, just like wakeboarding in the story above, AND wakeskating a few years ago.

OK, OK,... yes i see the error in this comparison too---> wake kite is just an addition, while kite boarding and wake skating are sub-devisions or seperate branches.

ITS NEW OK, it will get better IF IDIOTS DONT SCREW IT UP.

Alot of you have complained that you cant do traditional tricks on it, like flips and rolls and stuff. But with TIME and innovation it will be possible. A simple design like the handlebars of the BMX bike (allowing brake lines to not get tangled when doing bar spins) added to the wake kite handle will solve the problem and open a way for "new tricks" a rottator cup added to the handle could do the same thing.

The first wakeboard was not a liquid force trip or a ronix one or a...
you get the idea... if not let me repeat the general idea in one word

N
E
W

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