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Go Back   WakeWorld > >> Wakeboarding Discussion Archives > Archive through June 30, 2008

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Old     (bzmillerboy)      Join Date: Jun 2006       05-28-2008, 7:42 PM Reply   
My local lake is trying to ban wake boats. They define a wake boat as any boat with a "blatter" aka ballast. Basically the city is governed by a city counsel, and a few of the councilmen are fishermen.

Here is a thread from 2004 when they banned filling your ballast, now they want to ban any boat that has ballast whether you are using it or not.
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/170730.html

Has anyone had to deal with this before? Does anyone have statistics that may help support our argument?
Old     (westsiderippa)      Join Date: Dec 2006       05-28-2008, 7:48 PM Reply   
buy a malibu, throw lead in it and drop the wedge. problem sovled. the tanks are hidden under the floor anyway. do you have a boat? just run pop bags and hide them in the lockers, or drill up your floors and silicone lead in the bildge area.
Old     (zuka666)      Join Date: Aug 2005       05-28-2008, 7:52 PM Reply   
I look forward to seeing the fishermen's faces every time I hit the lakes early morning or evenings....

P.S. - Get a MC prostar 190 and load it up....Technically a non-ballast boat! (ski Boat)
There's your argument...and you'd prob. save some gas money
Old     (wakebrdjay)      Join Date: Apr 2008       05-28-2008, 7:59 PM Reply   
what if you put a tower on a say Bayliner cuddy cabin I/O with 6 200lb+ passengers in place of the tanks is that a wake boat then? Be sure to ask that question.
Old     (weswheels)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-28-2008, 8:27 PM Reply   
Make sure they understand the concept that their livewells are also technically considered "ballast." It is a tank that holds water and puts weight in their boats as well. Be kind and friendly to them and make sure you do your best to get on their good side. Pissing them off will not help the matter.
Old     (w00taz)      Join Date: Jun 2007       05-28-2008, 8:28 PM Reply   
good luck trying to write a law where livewells aren't considered the same thing as ballast. I'd be more concerned about the abuse of power from your city council than the actual law..
Old     (wakebrdjay)      Join Date: Apr 2008       05-28-2008, 8:30 PM Reply   
Exactly! We give up more and more of our rights every day!
Old     (wakeboardertj)      Join Date: May 2005       05-28-2008, 9:58 PM Reply   
good luck, we lost the fight. sucks living on private community lake where we have a malibu vride sitting hidden in the garage (we'll get sited for even having it in the driveway) and have to drive 45 minutes away to go board when we could just be 1 minute away
Old     (justcoz5)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-28-2008, 10:17 PM Reply   
Not being sarcastic here, but can you just pull the built in ballast system out?
Old     (kickflip_mj)      Join Date: Apr 2007       05-29-2008, 12:48 AM Reply   
yeah take the ballest completly out, load the boat with lead and tell them to shuve it up there a@#:-)... i have another question if there is no ballest in the boat what is the problem if the laws are only written for ballest systems?? what can they do??
Old     (alteczen)      Join Date: Aug 2003       05-29-2008, 6:31 AM Reply   
This is a little bit of a unique situation as it's a public waterway... I understand private lakes... but not with this being a public lake.
Old     (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       05-29-2008, 6:52 AM Reply   
Fishermen are such p$$$ies.

I would go with the lead idea, but, I would expect thm to catch on to this eventually.
Old     (bflat53212)      Join Date: Mar 2003       05-29-2008, 6:59 AM Reply   
taylor, don't you have a lawsuit waiting?
Old     (wakeviolater)      Join Date: Sep 2004       05-29-2008, 7:56 AM Reply   
get a fishing boat...tube in circles around the fishermen.
Old     (wakebadass)      Join Date: Aug 2006       05-29-2008, 8:18 AM Reply   
That doesn't seem like it should be allowed. Wouldn't a fishing boat with a live well be considered ballast too? Its a compartment (blatter) on the boat that fills with water?

The fisherman need to suck it up, or just ride in a boat without ballast and have as many people in it as you can.
Old     (gangster_wake)      Join Date: Aug 2005       05-29-2008, 8:42 AM Reply   
wakebadass...thats what i told them that they are going to make it worse than before. now instead of us having 4 or 5 riders in the boat with the ballast filled up. what roughly 1900lbs now im gonna make sure i have at least 10 t0 12 people in the boat. roughly 2000lbs. its gonna be the same if not heavier, so leave us alone....
Old     (wakescene)      Join Date: Feb 2001       05-29-2008, 8:54 AM Reply   
bzmillerboy,
I'd fight this to the end, however long and difficult this may be.
There is no technical definition of a Wakeboat, or wakeboard boat. It's simply a boat outfitted with specific equipment to help enhance the rider. This is exactly the same thing as a fishing boat being outfitted with fishing equipment. You have PerfectPass, they have a fishfinder.
The whole motor in the back thing (the VDrive config) is the same as the I/O config that I am sure nearly 90% of the bowrider boats on the lake fit the description of as well.
Sounds like you can remove all this "wake boat" equipment and still only have a wakeboat!

Seriously close-minded(read uneducated and not particularly smart) people your dealing with.

Got any 30ft boats on your lake? I am willing to bet those wakes at 20mph are 2x the size of yours at 20mph even loaded down. This point should be made as well.
If it's truly a public lake, then the county/State oversight board must be involved in some way. I'd investigate where they have the right to make rules like this instead of the County/State. Otherwise you should be able to find out the information backing this ban and understand it better.

WakeViolater, Funny!
Old     (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       05-29-2008, 10:23 AM Reply   
there's already a boat size limit on the lake. nothing over 21'. They've already banned ballast, and they've been trying to ban wakeboats for some time now.

KG you hit the nail on the head. they're dealing with some seriously uneducated ppl here. there have been no major incidents in the last few years involving "wakeboats" all of the deaths in the last few years can be contributed to drinking fisherman and irresponsible tubers and what-not.

its unfortuante bc willytown is an awesome place and if, by some strange reason this ban gets voted into law then the lake is going to probably go to hell real quick.
Old    willytown12            05-29-2008, 10:48 AM Reply   
its unfortunate that this decision can be made by 7 councilman who are also fisherman. this politics in the city are so messed up, they would prefer to be a fishing hole with shacks than an attraction with the building of 500k homes and all the expansion talk, they certainly dont understand the economic piece and are making political decisions in their own personal interest. that city will never be anything I just hope they dont make the lake the same thing
Old     (jon4pres)      Join Date: May 2004       05-29-2008, 11:51 AM Reply   
I can echo what willytown says. Our lake is an hour south of Kansas City. We have your typical small town with not a whole lot of money. Our lake though is really taking off. There are people putting money into our community because they want a big house on our lake. The lots have gone up in value probably 5x in the last 4 or 5 years. These people are building and remodeling houses. I know that if they were not allowed to have their wakeboard boats they would have found somewhere else to spend their money.

Why do they not want wakeboard boats? Surely they have more of an argument than the innconvience to their fishing.

What is a wakeboat? I cant even see how they could make that ban. Are they trying to ban inboards?
Old     (wakeguru)      Join Date: Feb 2003       05-29-2008, 11:52 AM Reply   
good point willytown. the people who moved to my lake for the skiing and boarding aspect definitely improved the homes and increased the taxable values.

if this ever happens on my lake I'll move and rent the house. my good neighbors won't be happy, but that's the whole reason I moved there to ski n board (and fish to a lesser degree).
Old    willytown12            05-29-2008, 11:57 AM Reply   
currently, you can have a bladder boat (a boat with ballast) but the ballast is illegal to use but not enforced

the new ordinance would not allow boats with ballast at all even if it is not used.

it also states that you cant use anything else for artifical weight (lead, sand, etc)

This entire thing is driven by 1 councilman who is an avid fisherman and he only needs to get buy in from 3 others for a majority vote and its a done deal.

they dont understand the economic ramifications not to mention how many people would pack their bags and move, property value would suffer...

who spends more $, somebody pulling their wakeboat to the lake or Joe Hillbilly filling up his 12' basstracker.
Old     (wakeboardertj)      Join Date: May 2005       05-29-2008, 12:04 PM Reply   
skubz, since its a private lake there wasn't much that could be done because their case was that our wakeboard boats were ruining docks and beaches with our big waves. So they put a ban on any boats over 21 feet, and any wake enhancements, including having 4 people sitting in the back of a boat . We said and moved out of the community, couldn't stand the strict CC&Rs and boat regulations.
Old     (bmartin)      Join Date: Jan 2007       05-29-2008, 12:33 PM Reply   
I live on a municipal lake and fear this type of thinking.

There is data on soil erosion which indicates that most shore erosion is caused by wind. I would start politicing with the individual council persons and try to engage your neighbors who are also opposed to the ban to do similarly. Their is strength in numbers and if you show up to the council meeting with a lot of people against the ban, it makes them a lot harder to vote for something that they know will affect their votes at the next election. Invite some of the council members to your place, write letters, phone them, meet with them one on one. Especially try to work with your council person that represents your district. They are supposed to be representing you. Having dealt with city councils in the past, do not waste time trying to change the minds of those already dead set on the ban. Engaging them usually only increases their resolve.

If getting them to go against the ban doesn't seem to be working, think of compromise positions. Instead of a total ban, perhaps ban them on certain days or times of the day so the fisherman get their time.

Good luck.
Old     (redsupralaunch)      Join Date: Aug 2002       05-29-2008, 4:45 PM Reply   
USA Waterski and USA Wakeboard has excellent data. http://www.usawaterski.org/pages/waterways.htm

You should consider getting a few riders together get a lawyer and threaten a Lawsuit.

Make sure its understood that our sport is recognized by the United States Olympic Committee. Additionally the 2008 USA Wakeboard Championship will be held in Elizabethtown, KY and will bring far more tourism $$$$ than any sport offered on your lake.
http://usoc.org/11638_54160.htm
Old     (bzmillerboy)      Join Date: Jun 2006       06-05-2008, 10:07 AM Reply   
Update:
The local city council has decided not to speak on changing the ordinance which would ban wakeboats on Williamstown Lake. However, they will now be enforcing the existing ordinance which bans use of ballast in your boat or any artificial means of weight.
Old     (romes)      Join Date: Sep 2006       06-05-2008, 10:22 AM Reply   
thats dope. those good 'ole boys down there put the scare on you guys.

looks like you guys are all gonna have to get Nautiques so the ballast will drain out the bottom. and you're all gonna have to ride in the same boat.
Old     (flux)      Join Date: Jun 2003       06-05-2008, 10:24 AM Reply   
Throw a few goldfish in your tanks and call em "livewells"
Old     (nvboarder)      Join Date: Nov 2005       06-05-2008, 1:46 PM Reply   
Find some of the biggest guys you can load the boat to capacity and drive around all day around the fisherman. No Ballast except people, nothing they can do. If that doesn't work poison the fish so they have no reason to be there. We can be just as ridiculous as everyone else out there. I'm sick of our rights being taken away!
Old     (showmedonttellme)      Join Date: Mar 2008       06-05-2008, 1:51 PM Reply   
BBLLAAHHH!!! I like the goldfish comment Flux. MAke them plexy so you can see inside them. Hang a fishing pole on the rack. Classic!!
Old     (thisisbrians)      Join Date: May 2008       06-05-2008, 2:22 PM Reply   
man, the fishermen are always cool at my home lake. we just idle by, and they are usually the first to wave.
Old     (gene3x)      Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Dallas , TX       06-06-2008, 9:08 AM Reply   
We had a guy get hit by a fisherman on his board here and based on the word of the fisherman that hit him they got a ticket for riding to close. I hate dumb law enforcement goons on a powertrip.
Old     (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       06-06-2008, 11:02 AM Reply   
I thought this thread said "Wake Boat Bun' I little disappointed when I opened it. Carry on...
Old     (illini88)      Join Date: Oct 2007       06-06-2008, 5:41 PM Reply   
i figure the manufacturers will step up and make some changes. The market always seems to adapt. Not too long ago lakes were banning jetskis. The argument that was used was that they were too loud. Along came 4 stroke engines. Who knows what they'll think of, but there is too much money at stake to let this industry die

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