Arizona Wakesurf Contest

While I was checking things out on the board I thought I should give everyone a heads up. The Arizona Wakeboard Association will be putting on it's second annual wakesurf contest on April 29th. The event is hosted by Century Marine (Centurion Boats), Liquid Force & Desert Surf Company. We will have 3 divisions: Advanced, Novice, and Womens. We are still putting the list of prizes together and I will post more information later, but you can keep updated by checking our website. http://www.theawa.com

As I've posted before, the family and I have been to a ton of contests last year, mostly in hopes of gathering ideas and info...sort of a "best practices" idea. This wakesurf contest really was the best grassroots stand alone contest we attended. Everyone had a good time, the prizes for the competitors, last year, were the best of any contest we have ever entered. Th venue in Two Cows Cove offered great water (and for folks not local, it's a kick in the butt to see cactus along the shore ) Probably the best aspect of this contest are the folks. Last year (and I do believe Chris mentiond this year too) there was a charitable component to the raffle. Overall, just good people.

The boats last year offered a good solid wave and the course was long enough to shred your legs to mush, if you wanted.

The one feature I liked most about this contest, from a grassroots perspective, is that it isn't held in conjuction with a wakeboarding event. So the wakesurfing is the order of the day, rather than an after thought. These folks did a great job of running the contest in an orderly manner without it feeling rushed or pressured.

If you can make this contest, I highly recommend it. Great fun for the whole family.

I'll definately be coming over from San Diego (most likely with a crew of 4-5 riders.)

Jeff, Thanks again for the positive feedback.

We are once again planning some pretty incredible prizes, but I don't want to reveal anything until the list is finalized. However, I don't think anybody will be disappointed.

We will be donating a portion of this year's raffle proceeds to the Arch Angel Foundation in the name of Powell Williams. Powell was taken from us last year by a drunk driver and we have decided to honor him every year by raising money in his name.

This sounds like a great tournament. Im thinking about going to it becuase i get my wakesetter this week. What group would a 15 year old be in? He's still learning but im sure he will be good enough for the tournamnet. thanks

Hey Sean, Novice division would be the group to enter. The Novice division was open to all ages, just limited by ability. It really is a fun contest.

Hi Jeff,
Can someone send me a copy of the trick list.I have been talking to the INT people about adding wakesurfing here in our area.
I will send you a photo of my Walker board when I get it in.My local kiddos are getting excited about wakesurfing.

Thanks jeff hey can you also send me a copy of the trick list. so i can see what i need to work on.

Hey Karen, I'm still looking forward to putting on a clinic in your neck of the woods. I would like to get the INT League on board with organized wakesurf contests, I know that the folks from Centurion put on a demo last year at the finals down in southern California, so there is some interest there.

The rest of this post will be long, so I am apologizing in advance.

The "generally accepted" method of judging wakesurf contests does not include a trick list. Part of the reason is that the sport is so dynamic at this stage, folks are still developing tricks. At the open division of last years World Wakesurfing Championship Drew Danielo throws a board transfer, then later in the day does a board transfer 180. The professional skimmers seem to create tricks in the moment. Last summer, James was trying, trying and trying again to do a backroll type trick on his surfstyle board...landing one, but in the flats so he lost the pocket. Eventually we'll see inverted tricks in wakesurfing.

Another issue is that we currently combine surfstyle and skimstyle boards in the same event. It's really hard to assign a point value to a big spin on a skimstyle vs. say a surface 360 on a surfstyle board.

Jerry Price, the founder of Shred Stixx is of the opinion that there REALLY should be two separate classes one for surfstyle and one for skimstyle. You can see his point, is a surface 3 on a surfstyle board harder than a big spin on a skimstyle board?

When we traveled last year and spoke to organizers it was virtually 100% unanimous that if they had to have two classes OR two separate trick lists with differing point values and some method of verifying a skimstyle board and a surfstyle board - they wouldn't bother with it.

I would presume it's much like the early days of wakeboarding when Scott Byerly and Gator Lungert showed up with the first twin tip wakeboards and blew everyone else into the weeds.

Now I am a HUGE fan of surfstyle boards, but I am a BIGGER fan of holding local grassroots contests. The general direction of the sport, via contests is: ride what you brought. Those folks that are uber-competitive will ride what allows them to win, the rest of us will ride our tried and true boards...whatever that is.

I am open to input and various opinions. I would love to hear from folks on this "issue".

Truly there has to be a seperate division for surf - style riding vs Skim style riding.

There has never been a wake board event with wake skating in conjunction with each other.

There really should be a separate division for Skim and Surf.

www.awakesurf.com

Alan, when you and Arun put together Wake Surf Jam you didn't do this. James won the men's amateur in that event and rode against skimstyle boards. Here is the issue that I hear from organizers: So you want me to hold:

Boys - am - Surf
Boys - am - Skim
Girls - am - Surf
Girls - am - Skim
Mens - am - Surf
Mens - am - Skim
Womens - am - Surf
Womens - am - Skim
Mens - Open - Surf
Mens - Open - Skim
Womens - Open - Surf
Womens - Open - Skim

It becomes unweildy for the small local organizers of grassroots contests. Especially if you have a second round in any of the divisions. I'm sure you remember your Wake Surf Jam, that was great fun and even that ran long, where the mens second round had to be skipped, and you only three divisions!!! Imagine if you had been running 12 divisions?

Also, when we are talking grassroots contests, not the big open professional contests where money is involved, just the local events, the need for separate skim and surf isn't borne out.
The tricks performed are about the same at this level. Also, in most of the grassroots contests, wakesurfing is an addition to the contest, not an all day or separate event. The organization and time requirements are the biggest concerns to the organizers, plus getting twice as many prizes?

Now Jerry, lectures me about starting off on the right foot. That eventually the skill set will filter it's way down and if I can see a day when it IS necessary to split the divisions, that it's best to do it NOW rather than create a pattern and try and change it 5 years from now. And he's right, if you create a pattern now, it'll be impossible to change.

I guess that in my opinion, the theory and practice don't align.

Jeff,
The event in Arizona would only have 6 events if they were split. Advanced, novice and women in each. I think that most if not all grassroot events would not need open and amature events in each age classification. I also believe that at some point it would be necessary as classes become more popular to have a split. It hardly make sense to have 12 classes with 1 or 2 in each class. I beleive that good qualified judges can have both in one class and judge them in a fair way. This goes back to the points for tricks based on skim or surf style. Surfing does have long board and shortboard divisions.

Dennis, I think I got lost. Are you saying skim and surf NOW or no? I do respect your opinion, dear friend, even though you ride goofy.

If it was offered and possible I would enter BOTH the surf and skim divisions. I also believe that any standardized judging system would require the 2 aspects to be judging differently (and IMO 2 seperate classifications will eliminate a lot of headaches in the long run)
It might create the need for 2 day contests but that's the way most other board sports do it.

(Message edited by Moh2o on March 10, 2006)

I do hope that with the growth of the sport, we will see enough participation to warrant two divisions or disciplines. Sean, let me pose a question to you...I don't want it to seem flippant, so forgive me if it comes off that way. If the choice were a contest based upon a single discipline of wakesurfing, with some guidance for surf vs skim, or no contests at all, would you be in favor of do the best we can and make changes over time, or hold out for two distinct disciplines?

So that everyone is on the same page, this is the "defacto" standard for judging wakesurf events, when both styles are combined:

1. Surf Style: Riders that use a more traditional style surfboard; with one
or more fins over 3” deep; performing fluid carving power turns, snappy
cut backs and smooth, more precise tricks and maneuvers.

2. Skim-Skate Style: Riders that use skim style boards with shallow or no
fins. Performing skateboard maneuvers such as ollies, pop-shove-its
and spins.

3. Versatility (surf style and surf-skate): showing the ability to ride both
styles.

4. Technical/Control: Showing the ability to stay in the power zone and
recover from difficult areas on the wake.

5. Difficulty of Maneuvers: The emphasis is on big, explosive moves that
bring out the fullest potential of both the surfer, type of board, and area
on the wake. Note: some tricks and or maneuvers can score differently
depending on the style of board being use.

6. Combination of Maneuvers: the rider who links and performs the most
dynamic maneuvers and tricks in a smooth, fluid manner, while
maintaining continuity with the wake will score the highest.

7. Activity: Constantly and quickly moving from one trick or maneuver to
another.

8. Air: any time the boards completely leave the water.

9. Falls: Number of falls and reasons for falls.

Jeff,
I think that if the contest had the time ( two days) and the quantity of contestants to warrant 2 divisions by all means run 2 divisions. If not run 1 division with the judges expertise as to which rider rides either type best. The latter would probably be at the grassroot level and the former would be a more national type event.

I think it's better to have 1 division then no contest at all but I also know how hard it is to change things once people are use to it a certain way.

One of the things I've heard is that there are a bunch of surf style folks that won't compete at contests, because they believe that it's unfair to NOT have two separate divisions. The problem with this "practice" if you will, is it gives a distorted perspective to the organizers. It's a far more powerful message if 200 surfstyle folks show up at a contest and demand their own division, than a supposed boycott.

Personally, I think "we" as an infant sport need to become more visible, encourage and develop more contests, garner the attention of potential event sponsors and grow from there.

Dennis makes a good point. When the shortboard revolution started in surfing, it wasn't automatically two different divisions (shortboard and longboard)...only as it became apparent to sponsors and competitors alike that there was enough interest in the shortboards and complaining by longboard riders that two separate disciplines developed.

I would be willing to bet $5 that if 500 surfstyle riders showed up (with perhaps 20 skimstyle riders there) at a contest, rode and looked at the sponsor's products, tossed a few bucks out and then went to the organizer AND major sponsors and said: we loved your contest, we'd prfer to have a separate division for surfstyle next year...it would happen.

As a CPA, I have worked with biz folks for over 25 years. Trust me when I say: Money talks. Sponsors view contests as advertising and they want the broadest exposure for thier dollar as possible. I won't say that change is easy, but I do believe that wakesurf contests will evolve to be representative of the broadest base of riders and potential buyers of product.

Organizers want to get as many folks involved as possible and they have a thankless job! If they see involvement and participation from folks that ask for a separate discipline, most of them will make efforts to accomodate the broadest group possible...but the bottom line is folks need to ask for wakesurfing to be added to contests, then show up and participate, for that to happen.

I know a bunch of pro surfers I talk to - through out the year; would love to participate. But going against a skimmer (it's just two different sports). Skimboarding tricks rival those of wake skating, where as surf style riders will destroy the wake. It's a matter of time untill a surf style rider will actually do a full cut-back and proceed with the wake.
Check out last month's mags and there is a pic of Mic Fanning from OZ. I believe if we can create (2) divisions more and more of the surfing public will be involved. Just think of all the Surfers out there that would enter. I have a list of them now. If it doesn't happen now; It will happen soon. What do you think all the pro surfers do during the off-season? Wouldn't you bet they would love to get behind a boat and shred a sick wake.
I hang at the Wave Pool in San Diego www.wavehouse.com quite often, and have seen and taped many pro surfers from Jamie Obrien (winner of last years Pipe Masters, to Sunny Garcia) Check out J.O.B's. new vid coming out soon and you'll see them shreding the wave pool. Get then behind a boat, and you can have the same results.

Alan, I agree with you totally. I also think if you bring in pro surfers, the MONEY will follow...advertising dollars spent on pro surfing events is probably 10 times that of pro skimming events. BUT and this is a BIG but...unless a significant number of them show up and compete...and THEN make a request for a separate discipline, it won't happen.

Behaviorially speaking...if "you" boycott without ever attending, folks think "you" are a primadona. It's never wise to cater to a primadona. If 50 pro surfers show up and rip the wake to shreds, create interest and spectators, THEN ask for a separate division, it will happen.

it's not the type of contestants that bring in the money but the amount of contestants and participants. There are 3 reasons pro skimming doesn't have the big sponsorships. 1. The biggest factor has been the lack of organization and a real tour. 2. Skimboarding participation rates pale in comparison to other boardsports mainly due to lack of good spots. 3. Sponsors highly frown at a situation where the contest organizer also ends up winning the contest and goes home with their money.

Also the more I think about this the more I don't think the 2 styles should be split. With the rate of progression in both equipment and moves the lines should soon blur between the two. Also I see other problems arising with equipment classifications. Take my board for instance. It's thicker then your standard skimboard and is a twin fin but I can also do shuv-its and big spins on it so what division would I be allowed in.

(reminds me of when airs first came on to the surf contest scene and everyone was in protest saying you can't judge airs against traditional surfing but that worked out alright.)

(Message edited by Moh2o on March 13, 2006)

Splitting the divisions also means splitting the pot (on a professional level) and IMO that will more negative effect on drawing talented riders then only having 1 style. Also (IMO again) the skimstyle tricks make it more exciting and presentable as a televised event. As fun as it is to slash, carve, and air it's still on a small mushy 2 ft wave which gets boring fast.

Good points CA, although, personally I think if you had big name surfers showing up, you'd have more sponsors and the "pot" would increase proportionally.

Just so that I am clear, after due consideration, you are now of the opinion that it is in the best interests of the sport to NOT split the divisions, just a single wakesurfing discipline?

To quite honest I'm not really sure anymore. After thinking about this a little more I see valid arguements for both sides of the issue.

Jeff or CA Skimmer,
Can you give me some more info on where the contest is actually taking place? What Lake,City
Accomodations etc?
I can't seem to find any info on there site (I have not checked it in a week or so).

Thanks.

Alan,
Lake Pleasant is just North of Phoenix.

Hmmm... Jeff, it sounds like scoring is maturing or morphing as the year goes on. Keep me up to date on changes.

What Hotel are all you guys staying at?

Hey Alan, Chris sent me all thee details, I thought I forwarded that - sheesh, can't trust me with a keyboard! I'll post the details here in case anyone else needs the info, okee dokee? I'll try and get to that this afternoon.

Big Show, I will definately keep you in the loop. I do believe that any changes we are talking about wouldn't happen until next year. It's just not fair or smart to spring changes on organizers, like yourself, this late in the program. You're good for this year.

Ok, area hotels. Chris sent me this list and indicated that most folks stay in Peoria. I'm still working on directions to Two Cows Cove on Lake Pleasant

Residence Inn
90 rooms
8435 West Paradise Lane,
Peoria, AZ 85382

Reservations:
(623) 979-2074
(800) 331-3311

Comfort Suites
79 rooms
8473 West Paradise Lane,
Peoria, AZ 85382

Hotel Phone:
(800) 228-5150
(623) 334-3993

Hampton Inn
132 rooms
8408 West Paradise Lane,
Peoria, AZ 85382

Reservations:
(800) HAMPTON
(623-426-7866)

La Quinta Inns & Suites
108 rooms
16321 North 83rd Avenue,
Peoria, AZ 85382

Hotel Phone:
(623) 487-1900

Holiday Inn Express
98 rooms/suites
16771 North 84th Avenue
Peoria, Arizona 85382

Phone: 623-853-1313
Fax: 623-853-8888

Extended Stay America
101 rooms
7345 West Bell Road
Peoria, AZ 85382

Phone: (800) 398-7829
Fax: (623) 487-0022

Ramada Inn
100 rooms (approx. 3 miles)
8955 NW Grand Avenue
Peoria, AZ 85382
(formerly Grand Inn)

Reservations:
(623) 979-7200
(800) 572-9295

Thanks.

Alan have you got me email add'y set in your spam filter? I double checked and I did send that email to you and another about board donations.

The links for the directions are finally working on our site - look at the directions on the schedule page. Let me know if they need supplementing.

We are gearing up for our first wakeboarding contest of the year, so our attention has been focused on wrapping up all our sponsors and finalizing our shedule. I should be able to start focusing on this again very soon.

We have decided to run the same cost structure as last year. $15 for WWA members and $25 for non-members.

Just for everyone's ease:

http://www.theawa.com/location.html

Getting to the park wasn't hard, but it's a BIG LAKE! Ask at the entrance how to get to Two Cows Cove...once you get going, the AWA folks had it pretty well marked.

I already registered online! I'll bet I'm the first! - sweet setup Chris, although...I noticed that my wife and my son are both 14!!!!!!! I hope that doesn't mess anyone up.

If you can only make one local contest this year, this is the one.

I am just learning to wakesurf so Ill definatly try to check this out. I live 15 minutes away from Pleasant. I was just wondering what kind of boat will be used for the contest. I ride behind my bros Super Air and Im goofy so that works out great for me. I have never ridden behind the other side of a boat though. Hope to meet some of you folks out there.

In case Chris doesn't make it here quickly, last year they used two Centution Avalanches, I do believe, weighted for each side. You should be good to go on the goofy boat, but riding backside might score you added points. Century Marine provides the boats and they are a Centurion dealer.

I wish I could come down from Minnesota again and drive.

The contest last year was so fun and well run.

Holmesy! You aren't going to make it down? You'll be missed! You'll have to come to the Lake Washington, MN wakesurf contest in July. We've also got a few clinic's and at least two more contests going on in that general area (midwest), maybe you can come drive or ride or?

This whole thing about skim vs surf is silly. If your surfing behind a boat it is Wakesurfing. Period! It does not matter what you ride. You could be on a 10'long board, a circular disc, or old wooden ironing board. The fact remains that you are surfing the wake no matter what you are on.

For those of you trying to place the name, in the preceeding post. Mike is a former professional snowboarder, making a living riding for Burton and now is involved with Calibrated Wakesurfers. He knows a thing or two about competitions.

As a preface, I will quote Mark Sher: “Competitions legitimize a sport”. Further, I think that competitions drive development by manufacturers. Anyone that remembers back in the day when wakeboards were directional and then Scott Byerly and Gator Lutgert showed up with the first twin tips, can reflect back and see that it was this competitive influence that changed the market and the products available.

I don’t think that ANY of the skim style folks are concerned with combining classes or styles, if you will, in a competition. The technical moves that are possible on a skimboard would theoretically give an advantage to skimboards.

However, the “de-facto rules” provide two equalizers:

The first is: “Difficulty of Maneuvers: The emphasis is on big, explosive moves which brings out the fullest potential of the surfer, type of board and area on the wake. Note, some tricks and or maneuvers can score differently depending on the style of board being used.”

Most folks that do a shuv-it aren’t taking it 2 feet in the air. It’s a quick maybe ½ inch above the water. Highly technical, don’t get me wrong, but not: “big, explosive”.

Contrast that with this aerial by James:



There isn’t any doubt that his aerial is “big” and “explosive”.

The second is: “Air: any time the board completely leaves the water.”

Personally I feel that the surf style boards with their deeper fins offer more drive and hence, a larger air and more “hang time”. I believe that this judging criteria offers an advantage to the surf style board rider.

To wrap that all up, I don’t believe I would go so far as to term the discussion of surf vs skim as silly, but I do believe that the rules make a concerted effort to equalize the two major styles of riding. Are they perfect? By no means, but I do believe that they reflect a best effort at this point in time.

I also believe that competitions, especially on a local level will legitimize the sport, gain greater exposure and eventually lead to more industry involvement. A further discussion of separating classes is always good, but IMO shouldn’t be a stumbling block to developing the sport.

Yea Mike (with all respect),
Is Wake skating the same as Wakeboarding.
Come on...
I've competed in surfing through out the world and I never had a longboarder in any one of my heats.
I surf and skim behind boats (as well as wakeboard) and they are 2 different entities. Truly.
www.awakesurf.com

Not to interrupt the skim versus surf style debate, but I thought I would provide some information about prizes. Here is a list of some of the prizes that we will be giving out. The top 3 finishers in the 3 divisions (Novice, Advanced, Women's) will receive something from the following list.

Entry Fee Paid to Wakesurf Contest at Boardstock
Surf Board (not wakesurf board)
Spy Sunglasses
Reef Sandals
Surf Ropes
Liquid Force's Liquid Tunes

We really did hijack this thread didn't we?! Our bad. Hey Chris, so that I'm clear on the "Wakesurf Contest at Boardstock" you're referring to the World Wakesurfing Championship put together by Centurion? Will you be giving cash, or some indication of registration and payment to the event?

Is the Surf board made by Desert Surf Company? The board they had last year was sweet.

Hi Jeff,

Hijack smijack - that's what WW is all about.

Can you please give more info on to send some prizes for the Arizona Contest? Also I may be behind mentally - but what is going on with the contest at Nor Cal at Lake Tullock.

Sorry - but I am so busy these days that I can't even follow up on all the details on all the contests.

Jeff, please give me some contact info for the Arizona contest as well as the Nor Cal contest so I can help out. I maybe attending (1) or (2) of the contests, so look out
Kind regards,
Alan Bogdanoff

Hey Alan,

The lady that we "hijacked smijacked" this thread from is the person you want to contact

The Arizona Wakeboard Association is organizing the referenced contest. They are one of the most organized and advanced clubs around. Also, simply great folks overall.

Webiste:

www.theawa.com

Contact info:

Christine Cameron
AWA President
(602) 684-5096
theawa@gmail.com

Mike Haley
Executive Director
(602) 300-4006

As for the Lake Tulloch contest, that's April 21 - 23. "Centurion's Spring Break Waksurfing Championship's" is going to be held on Saturday April 22 (just before the belly flop and wet T-shirt contests I don't believe they are championship contests though )

You'll want to contact Sara at the Lake Tulloch Resort for sponsorship details:

Phone: (209) 785-8200

The only email I have is:

Email: info@laketullochresort.com

I have folks working on three "potential" contests here in California, one in Florida, one in Texas, plus one last one up in Oregon (and you are already aware of the Ohio contest). I'll make sure you hear about those once they are finalized (fingers crossed as I type that )

the Florida contest is gonna happen! Just a matter of when.

Hey Ed, I know we can count on you, so let me rephrase that. I have two sure things, one in Ohio and one in Florida. Is that better? If you weren't so busy with all that Moomba/Supra stuff and making offerings of booze to the God of the woods.

Thanks Jeff!!

Here is the information that I just got regarding the wakesurf contest at Boarstock. Please excuse my ignorance, since I have yet to make it up there. It is the Players Wakesurf Contest at Boardstock. I'll find out how they plan on paying it out - I have a feeling that they will pay the entry fee directly for the winner. The surfboard will be provided by Desert Surf Company, so I assume it will be similar to last years. Desert Surf will also be providing Roxy luggage to the winner of the Women's division this year. Jeff, tell Judy that she can always switch prizes with me if I place

Everybody - Thanks for your being patient with the trickle of information. I released everything far sooner than I normally would, but I wanted to give everybody plenty of notice to make arrangements to travel. Thanks to everybody that has pre-registered! I am really excited by the number of out of towners that are making the treck.

Chris, I'm sure you'll do great this year! I've heard that Coach Lee and his lovely wife Melissa may be competing also. Mrs. Lee is quite good and she'll want that Roxy luggage! The Lee's organized the contest in New Mexico last year and hopefully we can convince them to do it again this year.

We used that luggage in all of our trips last year, the pattern made it so easy to find in baggage claim. It is very well constructed luggage. Personally I thought it would be that "looks nice but doesn't hold up" type, but it's been great.